This guy is dancing around answering the questions

Cheo and Chris Stuckmann would be best buddies...

Fair play for Cheo sharing his perspective. I get what he is saying, not everyone choses their director and it's having cooks and one pot. One thinks they need to lighten the mood with a joke and the other four do the same so it's just bombarded without them knowing until the end result. TLDR they need to reduce the amount of writers and have them communicate more

I'm very happily surprised to see this up so soon. I never expected Cheo Hodari Coker to join partway through and it turned out better than I expected.

2:33:37 Platoon explaining the issue that criticizing writers is fair play. 2:36:46 Lofti attempting to paraphrase what Cheo is saying. 2:37:10 Jedi Brooks making a good point. 2:37:41 Platoon giving an example. 2:39:12 Lofti makes a good point. 2:41:32 Jedi Brooks asks Cheo a very good question. ( It is never answered clearly or concisely) 2:43:00 Fantastic question by Jedi Brooks. ( Cheo deflects once again) 2:45:12 Cheo Hodari Coker( to paraphrase, you don’t know whether a movie is good or bad when you’re in the process of making it) 2:46:47 Jedi Brooks 💥

so what did we learn: - hollywood writers are just like battered housewives happily returning to their abusers. right. - nobody cares about the craft it's just: get your name on projects. every credit makes you a legend regardless of the actual quality of the script. no pride in your own work. shame, really. - no accountabilty for bad scripts whatsoever. apparently everything just gets "twisted" by other people/factors or "the process". - also his opinion on JJ Abrams made me chuckle so hard. - some points I can agree with but there was a lot of hardcore deflection. so this basically confirmed why I have so little respect for the majority of writers.

Madame Web is clearly one of Platoon's favorite films ever lol. Can't wait for the long form review!

So here's the thing: it takes this guy a whole lot of words to say nothing.

I enjoyed the gentleman’s writing perspective. I am actually also a scriptwriter. I’ve finished Warsaw Film School. However, after seeing how the industry works and that is never been able to put my ideas and my writing on the screen, I decided to change career paths. Also, a question: so to be credited - how much % of your work has to stay? That is an easy way to decide the degree of responsibility. Plus, there’s an easy and objective way to judge - how much does the movie make money. If it failed - that means it wasn’t good and EVERYONE involved in decision making is to and should be blamed.

Great line up, this is _undeniably_ probably the best show in the universe.

After this episode, I no longer wonder how writers say so much in today's movies without actually saying anything

Thanks to all who was on the stream. This was a really good debate, interesting to hear all the perspectives. Wish we could have more of these.

"You don't know the struggles, man!" F me, what a child!😂😂😂

Here’s the pros and cons of Cheo joining the show partway through. Pro: He’s in the industry and did come on the stream to have a discussion with everyone. So that’s cool. Con: I understand he’s in the industry, but he was defending the industry too much and not holding the writers accountable. The writers are professionals. They get paid for their work, but that also means the writers are there to be criticized.

I thought it was very brave of Cheo to come on as he had no idea who he was going to meet. Great stream guys. (i want to watch Madame Web after hearing you talk about it. lol)

If i was peter parker i think id be a lil upset i got bit by a dumb spider that only gave me sticky hands, super strength, and spider sense, but everyone else who got powers from a spider got that plus other cool shit like miles and her

Madame Web was written by ChatGPT Probably directed by it too.

3:54:56 - Fun fact: C3PO said, "The odds of successfully navigating an asteroid field are approximately 3,720 to 1!" Those are the odds *of* successfully doing it, not the odds *against!* So, it should be a breeze!

This turned delightful after a certain warm up period. My dude should return for a whole episode!

2:33:00 - Damn, Coker just loves the sound of his own voice...

Jedi Brooks: "But we know specifically that Rian had full control, can we blame Ryan?" Cheo: "But right, but see..this is the case with that where..he's subverting certain things and..." That's funny. Jedi asked a yes or no question, but the response is so long! I wonder why~

I think that the simplest compromise is to blame everyone involved in the production if the production is objectively bad. That way we don't unfairly blame the writers, actors, director or producer or lineman, effects artists, ect. EVERYONE is at fault for a garbage movie.

"im still trying to answer the question" then answer it...i guess we cant criticize since we dont know the process that went into crafting his answer, what he had for breakfast this morning, his first crush, the middle name of his first parrot. These are all important things that we just cant know. Also what is the point of the WGA if these writers apparently cannot defend their works from being ripped apart without being blacklisted? This guy makes arguments as if these writers do not PUBLICLY defend their work and tell us we are bigoted for not liking it. They are defending their work and the results of these movies. He is acting as if they are not and that is truly a terrible way to argue. Kudos to the panel for putting up with that shit.

Ok but, is there any proof that Jedi Brooks is NOT a real Jedi tho? I believe in the principle of Jedi until proven muggle. Or maybe the real Jedi are the friends we made along the way.

Disappointed how no one pointed out to Cheo how the Bob Marley would have been better characterised by Benedict Cumberbatch. Oh well…

In defense of Cheo: he probably knows a scriptwriter who turned in a good script that some producer's second cousin rewrote, another producer's spouse's best friend rewrote, and was then polished by someone else so that, although the original writer was credited, the final version contained only 20% of the original work (and then the directors & actors improvised some lines). And, while that specific trainwreck only happened once that he directly knows of, Cheo's heard it's happened to others, and some level of mangling happens to every scriptwriter he's talked to. It's loyalty to his brothers & sisters, and dammit, if no one else will speak for them, he'll stand up.

The idea of using athletes is way more apt than Cheo thinks. It just doesn't support his argument. It's a syllogistic fallacy. His argument supports the exact opposite of the actual outcome. If they want something they love to be viewed better, leaving for a different studio makes perfect sense.

I was very surprised / disappointed when Cottonmouth was killed, but I generally remember really enjoying the first season of Luke Cage, and enjoyed the second season more (although I confess it’s been so long since I’ve seen it I can’t recall why). But I do know this: I was very distraught over its cancellation, because I thought the street-level hero angle would be so excellent post-Endgame. Edit: I need to listen to the whole video. I hear much I’d the MW recap live, but then had to bail out.

Cleo Hodari Coker: Ahh if you guys knew, oh sweet Jesus, if only you knew how hard it is to get into film. OH IF ONLY YOU PLEBIANS KNEW MY STRUGGLE! Film is so hard, so, so hard. :(

regarding taking risks. Look at a movie like M.A.S.H. The studio gave these guys 3 million dollars. And the movie raked in over 80 million and became a cult classic. A TV-show was created that ran for 11 seasons.

"Do I get what?" She knew what you said. xD

I think i know why mr evil has a spider suit for no reason. In the original script there were going to be references to spiderman and Ezekiels plan was to try and kill baby peter Parker so he can be the only spider man person thing. Hence the spider suit, but the rumor was they set the movie in the wrong year so they had to remove the spiderman references or something like that lol

Cheo Hodari Coker: "It wasn't poor writing, it was decisions that were made that didn't work..." Oh, the choice which the writer made in his story didn't work. What a shame. He should find a four leaf clover, perhaps he'll luck into the right decisions. Or maybe he should just make better decisions.

sony: "what if we made Groundhog Day but bad, with less superpowers and charm?" ._.

I hope chris stuckman sees this stream and takes some notes from someone who actually works in the industry and how to interact with fans

It's a moot point anyway, Matt Sazama is always paired with Burk Sharpless. Both are a team and have worked on all six failures together. So that's two writers that have failed, not just one.

This is probably the best show in the universe

Gotta love these kinds of people. Cant answer a straight question. Cant give any coherent explanation/defense/reasoning of their position. Try their best not to let the other people talk. Just keeps spouting random incoherent and unrelated bullshit to consfuse and deflect everyone. Doesnt seem to even be listening to the other people bringing up great points and reasoning. Eventually just devolves into insults and playing the victim. Pretentious is hands down the word for this guy.

Just wow.... Hell of a show!

I had an interaction with joe russo ( not that one) on Twitter. I said i hated the argument that because people work hard on movies we shouldn't criticize them. We know people work hard but a shit movie is still shit, guess what his mature movie maker response was " And we hate you" Those are the kind of people defending this shit

“I’m Cheo Hodari the clown 🤡”

We meme about peter and aunt may getting younger... Well well well

Don't forget the director was also an executive producer

I get what the guy is saying , we don't know precisely what happened between the movie getting made and coming out. But then what are people supposed to do. Everytime a "bad" movie comes out reviewers should say " well it was really bad but we dont know what happened so we cant actually criticize it. He cant even bring himself to say yes rian Johnson is to blame for tlj

They keep giving me ideas for spoof shorts: now I'm thinking of a story with obvious plot beats, but a producer keeps shouting "stop! I don't think the audience will get it." After which he writes blatant exposition on a post-it note, and sticks it to the camera lens. By the end, the notes are the only visible thing, but dialogue is still audible.

Cheo has a lot in common with the director x interview with Mr H. Both claim to be “Street” and hip hop and ‘bout that beef(cringe), both claim to be maligned, both claim success born out of hubris, both believe that the hustle and playing the game is enough, that getting an idea into production and to the screen is an undertaking we mortals can’t understand, both believe that “the man or the studio” interferes and as such any criticism aimed at them or other writers is not warranted as they are mere cogs, both claim to be nerds and super fans and are happy to name drop and talk minutiae of comics or pop film theory rather than answer questions directly and both like to laud their achievements and professional accomplishments as badges of honour that give them the right to be industry know it alls and better critics. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

2:23:52 Cheo Hodari Coker Best, Shill, in the Universe, Probably? Judge for yourself whether what is being said is worth listening to. You have been forewarned. 😊

Please add timestamps

Man, that was painful to listen to. The moving of goalposts at every step of the conversation. You can criticize writers, except they're protected by a morass of unknowns so you can never definitively say they alone were responsible for anything ergo you can't say anything. Even if you can prove a writer definitely wrote something the studio approved it so you still can't say their writing was bad because even in a vacuum of talking about writing devoid of human attachment that it was greenlit at all means it... wasn't bad... somehow? By the same token as above a writer getting a job on a movie means they are de facto good because if they weren't they wouldn't be there. When we know this whole thing is a dumb social club where nepotism and politics vastly exceeds merit as a criteria for why people get jobs. Which he even dances around by tip-toeing around the idea that the guy puts up with the butchery of his works because he's getting paid. Which is a difference in value structures that somehow makes him beyond criticism... somehow. "He tried hard" "He had fun" "From his perspective" So? From the audience and even objective standards he put out garbage, I don't care how hard he worked or how much fun he had or what he thinks of it from his perspective. His subjective view of the process matters not a wit to the end result or criticism thereof. I would bet you $10,000 this guy would not use even the slightest bit of this reasoning if it applied to say, a car that broke down on him. "Making cars is hard" "They had fun making it" "From his perspective he thought he did good, someone else must have screwed something up" "You can't blame anyone because a bunch of people went into making it bad" "You can't blame the entire system either, you need to find exactly who made it bad" Can't complain about your broken vehicle if you've never built a car yourself or don't put yourself in the shoes of the people who didn't make it right to understand how much effort went into making a rolling turd.

These comments are hilarious. I dare someone else to walk into a conversation, midstream and engage with five people on a movie they didn't even write and emerge unscathed. I had fun and would definitely do it again.

Some people on the panel need to learn a little more diplomacy in asking questions. The session with Chemo was not well run.

35:04 do you know if they needed X position they could have had Mr. evil complaining kind of under his breath Allah come out to the coast have a few laughs. Go to the jungle in the middle of Peru. Find the super spider…..

I think I just lost 15% of my brain cells from listening to the plot breakdown :(

this guy really is driving me crazy he truly has no insight into the situation besides explaining the hollywood “behind the seens” shit that everyone already knows and doesnt care about when it comes to writing films. Hes just sticking up for writers because he is one, theres no excuse for movies like madam web at all, everyone on that project shouldnt be allowed to make films that bad its diagusting

Why is it important to know the inside of the industrie to criticque the art. I don't agree with Cheo there. It doesn't matter why the movie is shit. If it is shit, the ones that are responceble for it are at fault. It doesn't matter if they alone at fault or if they only partly at fault but they are at fault and deserve to be critizied.

The guy who joined ruined the stream director x vibes benzino cringe shit.

"I will have the blonde one"

Bunch of pokepurists. Everyone knows HGSS are the best pokemon games.

Some people in the comments here are clueless - what did you want Cheo to say? He's not going to bite the hand that feeds him. And neither would you if you were in his position. I find it comical that people expect working writers, producers, directors, etc. to throw studios and their colleagues under the bus. Only someone who's been blackballed by Hollywood or no longer cares about getting work could name names. I give Cheo massive props for coming on and engaging in an actual dialogue. And to compare him to Director X is stupid - Director X is a race baiter looking for attention, Cheo has a track record of success and didn't have to come on for attention. I'm not saying I agreed with all of his points but his point about specifically just blaming writers for a film's ills is valid - it's a case by case basis and there are things that go on behind the scenes that we'll never know about that writers, directors, etc. will generally keep quiet about it if they care to keep working. To speak specifically about Madame Web, it sounds like the entire production was a shit show which ultimately is the fault of the studio. It's unfair to fixate solely upon the writing.

Jedi has a serious attitude problem like bro relax 😭😭😭

While it's cool Cheo Hodari Coker gave his input, if anything he just described how screwed up the industry that they crawl through the mud to get at, which goes into another criticism of people like on this panel where you could open avenues to more lower budget, new IPs, with full director control like was done before the 2000s. You don't need to dump 200+ million on a single film or show, you could go into a batch of 40 million dollar attempts. But then they don't want any criticism because it might target someone who doesn't deserve it, so they want to bandage up a festering wound. Its' especially annoying when you see the kind of people try so hard to enter a failing industry like this. Cheo was a hip hop journalist, towed in line to get his shot at making Hollywood shows. You see this slowly encroaching with videogames where game directors always keep an eye out thinking they can get a movie deal... I don't understand it.