@Jazzkeyboardist1 Oxfam and Mèdecins Sans Frontièrs. That was before anyone knew about the Oxfam sex scandal, of course.

@Jazzkeyboardist1 This great charity called letting people be free to make their own decisions and discover that god is a dead

i know usually there are a myriad of medical doctors tending to the sick in 3rd world countries in the 80s. As in not a single one ever.

@@tylerjeb7888 doctors without borders anyone?

VASHTA NERADA From what I understand it never was a hospital, only a place you went to die. Preferably in agony as old Theresa believed suffering brought you closer to god. Pathetic really.

@@deltanovember1672 More than pathetic, actually evil. She was jetted around to first world clinics when she was old and ill. People died who could have been cured and the vast amount of money given to her, was not used to improve conditions.

Carina Costa-Correa If such a concept, evil, exists then Theresa was certainly evil.

Totally agree with your comment....he was a gem for our generation, one I learned of way to late in life.....and in my opinion he is a void my children don't even understand they have.

Hitch is my Jesus

He is the real pragmatist, until after 9/11 when he took sides with the "conservatives" on the foreground with the four horsemen crisis panel afterwards for example, as part of bigger plan unfolding over a matter of decades being a good helper for the three desert religions and ∆. And some foreign other enemies other than those three corrupted religions of filth who can be the next anointed enemies of "The West".imo

New atheism is a cult and people like you make it more and more obvious

So when will you celebrate Hitchmas? 😂 when was his birthday? We could start a new religion…hmm?

Quite.

Exposing mother Theresa when he did was really swimming against the stream. But now her crimes are widely known and it’s no longer controversial to say that she was a monster

@@unstoppableExodia Which was bizarre. EVERY single religious character on the planet is a pure parasitic FRAUD!

👍

@@unstoppableExodia You're a total idiot.

Slingo Bobingo well...hypocrisy is their middle name. Are you surprised? Lol.

best comment at the end trust and respect the catholic church. WTF the covering up of child sex abuse my god what planet is she on.

The irony is you’ve got a first world white privileged blow hard who smoked and drank alcohol to excess who earned a six figure sum selling certainty to militant atheists by criticising a frail old woman for not having first world medical facilities in a third world make shift hospice at a time when even the first world had no algorithms for palliative care and no algorithms for the safe and effective use of analgesics such as opioids. Hitchens himself admitted in a KZfaq panel that these stories and half truths he created around mother Teresa were sensationalism and yet people still religiously hold onto them to stereotype moderate religious believers and confirm their prejudice and attrition bias against religious expression. The fact is that people believe these myths and lies about Mother Teresa with out fact checking Hitchens sources. Hitchens does not even present the other side of the argument and takes all the negative accounts on face value with very limited references and half truths. It’s hardly Earth shattering news that mother Teresa didn’t believe in abortion, contraception and took a stoic approach to worldly goods and discomfort. She was a Catholic nun for goodness sake who took vows of charity, poverty and chastity to give wholehearted free service to the poorest of the poor. But Hitchens cleverly uses what is common knowledge regarding thousands of nuns and millions of Catholics to target just one person and prop up the rest of his half truths and speculation to demonise a frail old women who inspired princess Diana and still inspires charity workers and volunteers around the world today to help the poor, sick and dying. What did Hitchens do with his life ? It’s so ironic that a man who supported the Iraq war. A man who supported a war that lead to the deaths of thousands of innocent men, women and children and turned out to be completely unjustified has the gall and hypocrisy to criticise Mother Teresa. It speaks volumes that he targets Mother Teresa when there are people like Mau and Pol Pot in the world. Hitchens rhetoric lacks credibility and he conveniently ignores the differences between an hospice run by nuns during this period of time in third world India and an hospital in the modern first world country he had the privilege to have lived in. Not to mention the fact that Hitchens literally lacks credibility himself as a witness and researcher as he is completely biased as it is common knowledge he is notorious for demonising religious expression using half truths, straw men and equivocation fallacies and has even been caught out as an historical revisionist who ignores facts to win arguments and promote intolerance and ignorance. It’s a no win situation because even if the Catholic hospice could have got hold of opioids despite the tight laws on opioid usage in India Hitchens would have inevitably accused them of putting lives at risk because by the later standards you have to have a trained health care professional at all times monitoring the patients breathing after morphine usage as it is very dangerous and can cause respiratory depression. In fact for the first half hour after administering morphine or any Iv opioids you can’t leave the bedside and have to monitor observations particularly, respiratory rate, blood pressure and pulse every five minutes as morphine is dangerous. Not to mention the fact morphine causes urinary retention so you would have to do urinary catheterisation to monitor kidneys and fluid input and out put for patients on continuous strong analgesics/painkillers. Many of the nuns were not trained nurses and I know for a fact that if you took a patient back to a ward today after a major surgical procedure with severe pain even trained nurses will give you a grilling as even nurses on wards in first world hospitals in 2020 lack the confidence, resources, time, and training to give opioids particularly Iv morphine as they have to monitor patients closely after administration which poses even bigger challenges if you’re looking after numerous amounts of patients in a hospice with beds spread out over a large area who are at risk of stopping breathing from morphine usage when there are no trained nurses and proper equipment for monitoring. This is why patients are given most of their Iv morphine in operating theatre recovery rooms as even modern first world hospital wards can’t cope with lots of patients needing strong opioids as there is not enough staff and morphine is dangerous if not closely monitored. Not to mention the the fact you would also legally be required to have reversals for morphine including experienced staff to be near by at all times to give reversals such as (opioid antagonists like Naloxone) to save patients who have stopped breathing as it is common knowledge in a hospital setting that morphine effects the breathing centre in the brain (medulla ablongata). You would also legally require a crash trolley in case the patient arrested due to respiratory depression and if they needed intubating to save them you would require a doctor/trained anaesthetist as this is an highly skilled and dangerous procedure. Patients would also be suffering from severe nausea and vomiting which is common when having morphine which would have actually increased there pain because of abdominal retching. So without appropriate anti sickness drugs (anti emetics) including the skilled staff required to give anti sickness drugs the hospice would have been making the pain worse and increasing discomfort due to severe vomiting. So Hitchens claims regarding the use of painkillers were just ridiculous because the limited pain killing tablets that the hospice including most of the hospitals in India had access to during this time and place would have been ineffective for reducing severe pain most of the time anyway. So of course to the untrained eye from a first world perspective it would look like people were being neglected but in fact poor pain management was the norm all over India due to lack of training, knowledge and resources at the time and it was even a big problem managing pain in first world hospitals until the World Health Organisation (WHO) developed algorithms such as the analgesic ladder in the mid 80s which brought in new protocols to protect the lives of patients whilst achieving the most effective pain control and best practice for management of side effects such as the patient stopping breathing. The fact is that the first oral morphine tablets (the essential drug of palliative medicine) only arrived in India in 1988 under heavy regulations To single out Mother Teresa's hospice is unfair and disingenuous when it was an issue not just for hospices, but hospitals in India and in first world hospitals too. I can supply references for this if needed

If Christopher Hitchens had researched properly people wouldn’t be completely mislead Dr Fox who Hitchens uses as one of his references/sources for criticising mother Teresa’s hospice, Dr Fox himself notes that weak analgesics (like acetaminophen) were used to alleviate pain; what was lacking were strong analgesics like morphine. Hitchens conveniently neglected to mention this fact. The wording is important, Fox only noted 'a lack of painkillers' without indicating it's cause, not that Teresa was actively withholding them on principle. What Hitchens wouldn't talk about is the responses Dr. Fox got from other palliative care professionals. Three prominent palliative care professionals, Dr. David Jeffrey, Dr. Joseph O'Neill and Ms. Gilly Burn, founder of Cancer Relief India, responded to Fox on the Lancet.They note three main difficulties with respect to pain control in India: "1) lack of education of doctors and nurses, 2) few drugs, and 3) very strict state government legislation, which prohibits the use of strong analgesics even to patients dying of cancer", with about "half a million cases of unrelieved cancer pain in India” Before (WHO) The World Health Organisation developed an algorithm in 1986 (Analgesic ladder) for the effective and safer usage of analgesics people were in hospital much longer in bed rest due to poor recovery times caused by bad mobility which was caused by poor pain management resulting in many more people dying of DVT complications and infection. These nuns provided an hospice, food shelter, comfort warmth for a while in a time and place that was extremely challenging for even highly trained medical and nursing staff. it was not an highly equipped hospice due to circumstances and because it was not an hospital! Nevertheless, since the dangers regarding morphine weren’t as well known and strict prior to the WHO guidance on safe and effective usage of opioids , the Charity was able to use stronger painkillers like morphine and codeine injections at least occasionally under prescription at their homes, as witnesses have described. Iv references and sources for this if required. Historically and traditionally, hospices were run by religious institutions and were places of hospitality for the sick, wounded, or dying and for travelers. It was not until 1967 that the first modern hospice (equipped with palliative care) was opened in England Just a peripheral research of the claims regarding Mother Teresa’s use of analgesics demonstrates Hitchens half truths to be completely absurd. One of the Dr fox references Hitchens uses he conveniently doesn’t mention the fact that Dr Fox himself said the hospice was clean and people were well cared for. Also Dr Fox never actually stated Mother Teresa refused to give painkillers but only stated “there was a lack of painkillers”. The list of inaccuracies and half truths in Hitchens dishonest attack on mother Teresa goes on. There’s a lot of evidence out there if you can be bothered to fact check but apparently if you want to find evidence to demonise a frail old women and the thousands of religious and non religious volunteers who helped her tend to the poor, sick, homeless and dying you will find it.❤️

@@tombutcher3021 “Child sex abuse” The church leaders have a lot to answer for as they should have exposed these evil criminals. However, the families of these abused children many of which were moderate religious believers would not appreciate cynical and opportunistic attempts by militant atheists to use the crimes committed against their loved ones to demonise moderate religious believers or any specific groups as it is common knowledge that paedophiles and sex offenders purposely place themselves in positions and jobs where they have access to vulnerable groups and young people such as jobs in the clergy, including jobs in social work, the police force, education, health care workers, not to mention atheist scientists in academic positions but i wont name any names as I don’t tar everyone with the same brush in order to promote stereotypes, prejudice and hateful ideologies. This quote from the brilliant linguist and cognitive scientist Noam Chomsky who does not come from a religious perspective speaks volumes... “I think religion has often played a very positive role. Take western civilization, the Catholic Church has played an honorable role in helping those in need. In contrast, the US carried out a virtual war against the church in central America in the 1980’s primarily because prime elements in the church were working with great courage and honor to help those in need. And to organize them to help themselves. It is more than symbolic that the decade opened with the assassination of an archbishop and ended with the murder of 6 Jesuit intellectuals, in both cases by military forces armed and trained by the US government.” (Noam Chomsky). The world isn’t as black and white a picture as you are trying to create.

Yes, I also LOLLED at that one :)

He wouldn't know. He never tried.

+Terence Francis What is 'silly'?

Your post was "silly".

+Aristo Telian "He wouldn't know. He never tried" And you know that NO attempt was made on his behalf because of...? Not that it is relevant, for I have not tried to seek an audience with the Pope to ask him about his murderous "Condoms do Not prevent AIDS" statement to the ignorant and trusting. But I know for sure that an audience would certainly Not be granted. Just as I have never taken tea with the Queen.

Mother Teresa was loved by everyone and world leaders. Kinda goes against the whole narrative in the gospel about “if the world hates you, it hated me first.”

The reputation of Catholic Church is anything but good.

Damaging the reputation of the Catholic Church is something they are very well capable off themselves....the world needs people with the bravery to point it out to a world to occupied to take notice. That once in a lifetime Sharp Mind of Christopher Hitchens was the most brilliant, highly articulated person humanity will ever know.....we were more than lucky he was there for the short time he did, even though the absence of him feels therefore so much the greater.

​@@user-sr9in2es8b The Catholic Church is the greatest source of good on the planet not to mention the Church has more wisdom, knowledge, science, education, philosophy, reason, logic, linguistics, culture etc than any other entity

⁠​⁠​⁠@@SJ-xy5mdPull the other one. You only have to glance at its history and teachings to know that is a preposterous statement.

@@j.c7719 You are 100% wrong. You could not be more wrong if you tried and I can prove it to you very easily

August Home He didn't do any serious investigation. He had an agenda and he produced propaganda.

@@MrJamberee Pretty easy to investigate. ] Was MT receiving money under the impression it would go towards healing the sick and the poor? Yes. Were adequate facilities and medical treatment made available at MT's missions? No. Was MT on record saying these people in her missions should suffer in agony and die in order to be closer to God? Yes. Investigation over. She took money and didn't spend it on what she said she would, furthermore she didn't provide adequate treatment to her patients, thus more than likely in most cases effectively killing a treatable case. She most certainly condemned a lot more suffering in her patients than would be deemed necessary, or in fact humane, at any medical institution. There's a reason MT's charity is the only one in all of India not to release their financial statements... Wonder why?

@Jazzkeyboardist1 Indeed, it's not enough that he alone highlighted the outrageous suffering and obvious lack of care in these "Hospitals". Simply highlighting this to the general public, whom at large have more influence and capital than him alone, is no where near enough! By doing so he has taken it upon himself to solely replace and reform such insinuations with his own time and funding. Not doing so would render his initial observations completely meaningless, and everyone should just go back to thinking Mother Teresa was a saint.

@Jazzkeyboardist1 Mother Teresa didn't help those Indians either, on top of that she stole money. Says a lot about your character that you choose to focus on the fact Hitchen's didn't have the financial backing to do what Teresa was lying about. Classic signature of an uneducated fool, 'what-aboutism' How stupid do you have to be to think the Iraq war proceeded entirely at Hitchen's behest. Crawl back under your bridge, troll, no one cares about your strange fetish for hating on Hitchen's. What did YOU do to help those Indians? Naught, then your just as bad as you proclaim Hitchen's is.

@Jazzkeyboardist1 That's lovely, but the question still stands, did you help those Indians? No. Jesus said, "Let he without sin cast the first stone", it may do you some good to remember this when judging people so harshly. After all, what kind of Christian doesn't heed the words of Jesus? I might add, notably many Atheists give to charity annually. In fact, some of the biggest charitable faces are atheist. People like the late Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Geoff Soros. All of which have helped more people and donated more money than you ever could. It may be a hard pill to swallow, but the top 3 donators to charity last year were all... Atheists. Golly that must grind your gears. I may advise looking to the words in your Holy Book, rather than spouting hatred. To paraphrase Jesus, "Do not judge, for those who judge will have that judgement upon them". If I believed that, I certainly wouldn't be as hateful as you are.

who are "we"?

@@alyyatt2658 the human race

Like Peter, yes.

@@theblueadventurer615 🤦‍♂️

No we do not.

That heartless harridan

Was the money returned?

@@nicolasbadenhorst9531 She put donations in her personal bank account in the Vatican bank, that's a known thing. She died a millionaire.

Publish it, then.

She was heartless bitch, who lacked faith and told herself that allowing her victims to suffer and die in misery would bring them closer to her god.

not really, it was very much a decade of these kinds of things

​​@@jacksmith4460 Are you young, and weren't there, or someone with selective memory? Sinéad O'Connor's career was ruined just for cutting up a photo of the Pope on SNL.

It took nothing. Perfect to condemn someone to sell his book for millions

Imagine believing that

It still does. "Mother Theresa" is still used as shorthand for a paragon of virtue and she was anything but. But if you try to tell people that, watch out! Even in 2023.

Na he really wasnt consistent, if you have followed Hitchens instead of idolising him you would know this.

@@jonathancrawford4339 care to add some form of reference or evidence? I've read everything from him, and he seems pretty consistent to me

@@poozer1986 in his shits yes

@@alyyatt2658 what? Didn't really make sense buddy

Iraqui war for instance buddy

@Yorosero - I know what you mean. I only discovered Hitch in the year he left us. How much we could do with him now.

CloneDaddy we need him now more than ever, and there hasn’t been anyone with his charm since

Hurbii so many gay fans

​@Jazzkeyboardist1Okay, you've proved that chrissy hitchens is a bad man. Now, does that give you the right to ignore all the good things he has said? If so, then you must be a bad child. Parents say alot of things, it can be incorrect or correct, u just need to discard the incorrect. u dont preach the incorrect, u discard it. What ure doing is making yourself suffer because you want everyone to hate hitchens. But we all know hitchens says bad things, just like everyone is. noone is perfect.

Jazzkeyboardist1 you keep repeating the same stuff. Lol, I already understood the first time. what the fk do you honestly want me to say ?

The typical kind of woman who love to embrace what's bad. The point was Hitchens conducted himself properly... and she can't understand it.

TBH, interrupting was the _very least_ of the weaknesses in her case.

I don’t promote violence against women….but this bitch…

To be more honest, he did interrupt her and then took offense to her interrupting his interruption.

Actually I may not agree with everything she’s saying, but I think “that’s too bad” was a fairly appropriate thing to say - and I’ll add too, that if it had been Hitchens to say those very words then it would be included in a compilation video of ‘hitchslaps’ that we all know and adore.

It's friggin hysterical! What a bunch of hypocrites!

Yea all she does is claim how great she was without bringing her own evidence. Hitchens might not provide so much evidence on his video but she provides none.

IKR, the irony is delicious.

Perhaps you are too-easily boggled?

Aristo Telian True, is it really that shocking?

'The' case may be. Hitch's case was not.

Aristo Telian Why there is only praise for that woman. Awakening criticism to dispel the myths is necessary. And honestly considering how she was concerned with surrounding herself with sickness rather than curing it, I don't see a redeeming factor. The big picture is important. It doesn't matter if the Catholic church gives to the poor every now and than if you consider what has being their overall roll in humanity for example.

Paul A Well, you have more than one point in your post: _Why there is only praise for that woman_ Obviously, there is not. My question to you is, however, what kind of criticism has there been? Does the criticism take her purpose into account? Her environment? I note that no one accuses her of personal luxury or of embezzlement. It has been pointed out as proof of hypocrisy that she herself went to a doctor (Hitch said this, in fact, I think later). What that charge failed to include was that she waited while she sickened, refusing to go to a doctor. She only went when she was too weak to refuse her sisters' insistence that she go. They took her. She didn't 'go.' She accepted money from dictators. OK. What did she do with it? She used it for her ministry. Isn't that better then letting the dictator do whatever he would have done with it? Isn't money fungible? Didn't it spend just as well for her ministry? Should she have proved her virtue by refusing it and then have people charge her with ignoring even more poor? She 'surrounded herself with sickness'? What are you talking about? Not 'sickness' (that's a telling perspective that should make you ashamed of yourself) but sick *people*.How else can she help them? Do you complain that nurses surround themselves with sick people? Of course not, because we remember why they do so. Remember why Mother Teresa did, also. She couldn't 'cure' them. There were many, they were terminal (do you complain about other hospice workers like this?), and she was there to give them dignity and what care they could that they were not given outside of the Sisters' work. I wonder, have you ever written to them, talked to them, about what they would do if they could? No? Then how do you know that they wouldn't if they could? But can they? We can't always, not even doctors. She was human, so she will not be perfect. She has never said that she was perfect. How would your character stand up to such close and prejudiced scrutiny? Anybody else's? She was, I hear, hard to work with and could be demanding. So? How often did she pray about it? You don't know? What else do you not know about her private life? _It doesn't matter if the Catholic church gives to the poor every now and than if you consider what has being their overall roll in humanity_ Every now and then? Are you serious? Then you have no idea of what they do and have done for centuries. Why don't you ask the Dominicans? The Franciscans? Look up 'Catholic charities.' 'Every now and then.' Good grief. I did say that 'the' case against her may be fair, but I haven't heard one so far. This one, however? No, this case is not fair. Hitch seldom is.

Aristo Telian Ok, You say that the case is a bit shallow perhaps. I suggest that perhaps the subject of a new documentary should be. Has she being detrimental to humanity (my stance is it has being and very). But I take your point that a documentary that digs deeper into this would be better. I would still say that Christianity in general is deeply toxic, when you look at the roll it has have in shaping history.

Paul A That could be concluded, very likely. In order to know, though, I think we'd have to make sure that we include all the factors we must consider. For example: what is 'Christianity in general'? What is 'Christianity'? That last is not a dodge or a joke. Since Jesus himself said that some---many, actually---think they are Christians but aren't, some pretend to be Christians but certainly aren't, and Jesus himself was criticized for doing what some thought he shouldn't ('he eats with tax collectors and sinners!'), defining 'Christianity' may be more difficult than we might at first feel it to be. I find that most of the acts that people find objectionable are committed by people breaking the laws of Christianity, not obeying them. You'll find discussions of this to be centuries old, so it's not a new phenomenon or consideration. The Church itself said that there is a Church Visible and a Church Invisible. Infiltrators are not part of the loyal citizenry anywhere. So Christians are those who follow the teachings of Christ, who, when they break them---as they will from time to time---they admit it, change their ways, and don't do it again. Considering that Christians are commanded to love their neighbors, not to judge, help, encourage, be lovingly truthful, how could this be toxic?

My French grandparents -- still devout Catholics btw -- called their nuns absolute bitches. I think the nuns who lived away like hermits might have been fine, but the ones who were given power over vulnerable people like orphans or single mothers were the worst.

If she thought that was worse than the war, she was simply on the edge of it. One day perhaps you will feel hunger and agony and understand what a hand out is.

@@deborahdean8867 She lived in Belgium, you know that, right?. And a year before the war, her father died. She was six then. She knew damn well what hunger and deprivation were in the war. The fear of boarding school was so deep that three years ago she stopped eating when she was admitted to a care home at the age of 88. I explained to so many times that this was not the same as 'with the nuns'. She couldn't accept this. Stopped eating and after 5 months she died horribly. In a way you could say those "nuns" killed my mother. Don't tell me "simply on the edge of it".

@@MrCanis4 I've also talked to people who looked for refuge and help wherever they could find it. They appreciated the help, but the FRENCH CATHOLIC NUNS do indeed seem to have a bad reputation for coldness. But when you're starving and in the elements, you dont care much.

@@deborahdean8867 I went to a convent school in Cardiff at a very young age. I remember the nuns hitting the children quite often. It was like a prison. I remember feeling very relieved when we moved away. I pretty much saw through religion at about 7 years of age. I've almost always been an atheist since then, and pity the wretches who 'believe'. God moves in mysterious ways, as they say 😂

Because she compares to those people, you Moron! How many poor people have you tried to help???

@@Walshy16 Hitler was allowed to take power because of the financial instabilty of Germany following WWI. One of Hitler's big selling points was that he was going to lift Germany out of poverty. So yes, you can compare the two of them, attempting to help poor people does not mean you are good.

@@Walshy16 not helping at all is better then what the fuck she did.

@@cartaphilus242 Spot on ! Or ol Jimmy Savile ! He helped plenty !

M. Ö.ä. Xpp *\0/*(^^)(^^)=-O:-P=

It doesn't seem like it from here.

+Aristo Telian okay.

+Aristo Telian "Do yourself the honour of saying its faith, don't say it's science based, you won't get away with it." (Christopher Hitchens in debate with Frank Tureck) now do yourself a favour Aristo and don't say there is any evidence for a god, say it's faith, say it's an irrational belief without any facts.

Thomas Carroll Hitch was right about it being 'not science.' We've known that for centuries, ever since modern science began in the seventeenth century. It has a very different method and purpose. However, to say that therefore there is 'no' evidence for God is to misunderstand the natures of the several knowledges. There's no 'evidence' for mathematics. There's no 'evidence' for causality. Without them, however, there is no science.

The examples (mathematics, causality) are not equivalent to God, and the argument is disingenuous.

Dead in HELL forever pure genius

Sadly I think you're right

No but if you think with his voice, if you're capable, I found it lifted my IQ by 20. Just for a short stint 😅

The closest [go figure] is his brother. You may disagree with them but you can never question their logic of how they came to that conclusion

@@halo1403 "Exposing the Greatest Lie Ever Told [Hell]" (tentmakerorg)

dannypeck666 well said... I concur

Not just preachers. Since divorce is a sin, you also have to stay married to pedophiles who prey on your own children.

Let's not forget their stance on contraception. It's probably caused more sti's and unnecessary pregnancies and contributed to overpopulation in 3rd world countries than just about any other organisation in history. Then there's the massacres of non Catholics. One does not have to be an atheist or merely anti paedophile not to have respect for the church.

Even if there was an eleventh commandment that said don't molest and rape children they'd still do it.

The enemy outnumber us a paltry 5 to 1. Good odds for any Hitch.

This being merely a few very short rounds in the ring. But oh yes, I most certainly agree: In order to make the match a bit more fair, they should have at least thrown in 10 of their best Catholic debaters.

@Joe Johnson Hahaha.....Yes, you're probably right. He was indeed an intellectual master swordsman....

Molon labe

@Leonardo's Truth no one cares about your opinion. Nor mine. You should know. I am sure you have heard this many times in your life and will keep hearing it.

ALL the mothers? Only a small minority of bad shepherds among the priests: I myself went to Catholic schools in my childhood and as a teenager, and all went well.

@@funnycat1957 Which mothers didn't trust the church at your school?

@@funnycat1957and….? I guess if you didn’t see it, nothing happened? Are you familiar with object permanence?

Franz.... "Bad Shepherds" doesn't begin to cover it ! Child abusing perverts is more accurate. It is the Catholic Church's history of attempting to "cover up and sweep under the carpet" the worst crimes of its priests that allows the disgusting crimes to continue ! Nobody is saying that ALL Catholics are bad but until the Catholic Church purges itself of those that are, instead of seeking to obfuscate and conceal their crimes, the Faith's reputation will continue to suffer 🤷‍♀️

Priests are nonces above the law apparently

Even in Catholic countries, many religious people despise the nuns who were given authority over vulnerable people like orphans and single mothers. The concept of nunhood itself is nothing wrong, but it's their power when they run social institutions that's the problem.

@@Sawrattan Good point... "Mother" Theresa may be the most notorious nun in the world, but she is far from alone in her exploitation of the poor and vulnerable!

@SubArc Adventures People who do not conform to a vile religion that celebrates suffering

Receiving end? Oh dear

Sexually? Or Propagandically?

Entirely agree…..I grew up in Holy Catholic Ireland in a time when the Catholic Church held far more power and control than any elected Government, when the upper clerical ranks were involved in all sorts of political scams and fiscal dealings….

Oh?

@@CillMhantainSean still happens in Poland - religion is everywhere - fuckin sick and tired of them

I hope your bigoted teachers are still alive. Write to them, tell them what a bunch of narrow-minded religious nutters they are. These people hate being challenged by adults - they prefer young children, who they think they can brainwash. In the case of catholic priests, of course, they REALLY prefer younger children...

lol... The ridiculous insistence on celibacy (which is totally unnatural) is the root cause of the abuse over the centuries. And the 'pope' usually an 80yr old virgin, dares to lecture us all about sex.

Teachers only want answers that agree with their views. To my horror this trend continued in University.

Ryan O Neil I was there too, and you are a delusional idiot. Checkmate.

+Ryan O Neil Even if the student had no evidence, IT'S THEIR RIGHT TO AN OPINION. So there is NO excuse for a thug activist teacher or headmaster to lay a finger on a student.

This quote put tears in my eyes.. This woman was evil.

Sounds about right, her ego was huge

@@sanguinarity8105 Most nuns are EVIL. DON'T KNOW ANYONE WHO WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS ANY GOOD WORDS TO SAY ABOUT THESE SADISTS.

She also said, at the time of the 1985 Live Aid concert , that the Ethiopian famine was God's way of teaching we privileged, well fed people the virtue of charity.

@@billaitken2989 yeah at the expense of children dying of starvation, what an idiot

ouch! nice

theillustrated: Unfortunately it has become quite the fashion to expect reward for suffering alone and for showing commiseration, in the non-catholic West, as well. We are being taken over by a victimhood cult. All thanks to Mother Teresa and other fundamentalist crackpots, who thought it a good idea to let the sick suffer, not help them, but watch them suffer, and get off on the warm fuzzy feeling that comes with showing off one's capacity for heartfelt sympathy, to the world. Muslims give to the poor, Protestants help the poor, and Catholics jerk off on poverty. As Hitchens said: "Mother Teresa was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty" One thing: the catholic clergy never killed or tortured anyone. They only made sure they had a front row seat to the spectacle.

I am a catholic. Can you explain more about how Mother Teresa influenced your decision?

solrack83 Back in the seventies we had quite a lot of missionary heroes. My country's No1 was Father Damian of Molokai, but there were plenty of others. Mother Teresa was an odd-one-out, in that she spent her donations not on improving her caring, but on expanding it geographically, founding new hospices and convents, all of which offered the same marginal and ineffective care. I found that immoral and arrogant. She knew that what she did in her first hospice in India was too poorly funded to offer more than a dry spot for the gravely ill to die. Pain relief and treatment could not be provided so the quality of care was hardly better than symbolic. As long as she lacked the funding, her approach could be justified as "better than nothing", and "well-intended but futile". Once funds came pouring in, I expected her to concentrate on improving quality of care. More medication, qualified personnel, a visiting room for family members, in short: to improve the quality of life of her guests. She didn't. She spent her funding on more of the same marginal symbolic care, elsewhere. I never understood why the Catholic Church chose to make such a callous enterprise into an example of charity. That is no helping the poor and the sick. It is merely lining them up in a room, and have them suffer and die, on display, for the world to see. Mother Teresa claimed she offered them dignity. Who can experience dignity, on top of so much pain and despair, unless something is done about the pain and despair first? Whatever she thought she gave them, they were not in any condition to receive it.

Thank you for your answer. I understand what you are saying and if it has been you or me running those hospices I am sure that other decisions would have been made. Having said that, it's still very hard for me to think that her decision to expand geographically was immoral or arrogant. Let's keep in mind that she was no doctor, not even highly educated, and I think she was doing the best she could. I agree that she and her missionaries could have provided better pain treatment, but I understand that it wasn't easy for them. For me, their biggest contribution was to provide the dying (these people were hopeless) a decent place for their last days, and more importantly, giving them the care and the love they lacked during most of their lives. Isn't that comparable to what Patch Adams do? Lifting up the spirit of the sick and dying? In the end, she was just one person and had limitations as anyone. For me the real question to understand her life is: "what would be of the world if she had never existed?" She at least created consciousness of those who are hopeless (we wouldn't be having this conversation without her) and I think it is fair to say that she didn't get rich by doing that (in contrast to many NGO's) and always lived a simple life. Again, I truly think that more ought to be done. But I also think that it is up to you and me.

Hell, I'd probably conclude cared for his citizens than Mother Theresa. Killing people for not following orders is one thing, making people suffer so they can go to heaven is a whole other level of evil entirely.

Yeah and how many children were molested by catholic priests who were known pedophiles to the church and protected by the church instead of turned over to the law. The arrogance is astounding.

@@scaletownmodels Literally hundreds. A lot of the saints were children who were abused and murdered by the Catholic Church.

Wasn't it the perfect way to end this show?

It was masterclass, I love how confrontational he is with apologists standing on strawman argumentation. Class act. You will not flatter me into passivity, sort of approach.

He also said about the catholic church no child's behind left.sums it up for me peedos

The Second Commandment of Exodus 20 contains one grain of absolute, even self-evident, Truth: You and possibly your descendants will suffer greatly if you worship that which is untrue or not worthy of worship. "Mother" Theresa's worshippers are in violation of that. The present POTUS himself, Donald the Horrible, bloody well seems to Demand to be worshipped.

Quite! Apparently the objective of the documentary was lost on them

@@albertrogers2506 Screw the second commandment. Only two commandments are worth a shit...Don't steal, and don't kill. The rest are immoral as written And the two that are good LONG predate Christianity, or even Judaism for that matter.

Exactly !! I live in Washington DC and I went to Brookland and I threw an egg at the building housing her order in Washington DC in the dark of the night. "Nuns" in her order are bottom-feeders drunk on dogma who need to be taken down a few notches and humiliated and exposed to the world ( The Washington Metro Area ) and the phonies they are.

and who cares if someone is precious or not or if something is holy or blasphemous, Truth is more important than sparing feelings

👍

Needs more music cancellation "real world" and "teen mom" seasons.

Ah the fanboys are out on the scene I see.

And here you are.

He's got facts, common sense, and an unparalleled intellect. They have a whole lot of criticisms and emotion.

The funny thing is the only question you had to ask Christopher was what time is it. ???

@@briandelaney9710 or is it possible fans of what Hitchens is saying is the draw, rather than Hitchens somehow himself?

"The program was too one sided." Translation "We can't find anything that he was wrong about, but we object to the fact that he introduced all these facts and didn't make her look nice.">

My guess is that you have difficulty discerning the difference between a government-regulated entity and free speech. Your post was one-sided. Welcome to freedom.

Absolutely. Which is why all religious programming on 'Government regulated entities' should put the opposite view. I'm sure you'll agree because that is your own argument and if you disagree that would make you a hypocrite. So every Songs of Praise could start with 15 minutes of content from atheists. Welcome to freedom, as you would say.

Mark Eltringham Churches are not 'government regulated.' Not even the C of E.

+Aristo Telian no. But the broadcasters are.

He regrets it now. He said in his heart there is no God. He lied like many successful journalists.

Johlibaptist and you know this how 🤣😂🤣

@@Kodakcompactdisc Revelation and the book of Revelation, the Apocalypse. As to his lies, well check his comments about Billy Graham and Templeton. Hitch wished Graham dead. And Billy outlived him, having had a long and blessed life. Memento mori!

@@Johlibaptist You are terrible at telling lies. 😎

@arun mehta Your God eats pig shit. 🐖💩

CaptainCritical Long may we discover new Hitchens footage.

Funny, watching this live on TV was my first very first experience of a Hitchslap.

Same here, bro.

Yes Captain Critical he was a nasty piece of work. (Now we see here how he manipulated Mary Louden who was the only one presented to be present in the Calcutta centre.

Religious people are totally deluded fuckwits. Cultists who can’t accept anything that goes against there own opinions. Haven’t seen a single Hitch video yet where he hasn’t owned every religious text thumping twat.

@Enricom23 You beat me to it but I'll say it as well.

@Jazzkeyboardist1 You're definitely a fuckwit...

Jazzkeyboardist1 what do you define as freedom?

@Enricom23 Yep. He is a fuckwit

Jazzkeyboardist1 you think following a set of rules by an imaginary god is freedom? You need to learn the basics, like how to think and understand reality.

dude don't promote mother teresa's agenda. so many lives which would have been cured, saved and chaged died with suffering and pain with those dirty needles, no professional care. Dude what do you think, what is the purpose of creation, to watch someone die with so much pain and siffering, what fricking thing is that now SMH??

@@Aarnyx looking forward to it

Not that may years ago, when I saw a little girl in my kid’s 3rd grade class dressed up as Mother Theresa and doing a (very favorable) project about her, it took all my will to not bring up the decidedly un-saintly things about the woman to the child’s parents. Theresa did everything she could to keep the poor and suffering poor and suffering, while jet-setting around the world promoting the criminalization of birth control and abortions, including in countries where women had to give birth and watch one after another child die of starvation or diseases that could have been prevented or cured with the massive amounts of money that Theresa collected and hoarded! If I believed in demons or the anti-Christ, I would believe she was one or the other. What do they say, “Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing” (the clothing part always makes me imagine wolves in knitted wool sweaters/jumpers)? What is really scary is that in the U.S., the Religious Right, who are mostly Evangelicals, have funneled massive amounts of money into and gained huge power within the Republican Party with the goal of overturning Roe v. Wade and criminalizing abortion and may finally get their way despite the majority of Americans believing in a woman’s right to choose; they are making the Catholic Church seem almost rational (well, not quite). Of course the Catholics have lot a LOT of clout, not to mention would-be priests, since the systemic sexual abuse of children by members of the clergy (including Cardinals) has come to light in case all over the world. It’s disgusting and the systemic cover-up of pedophile priests for decades (or more… likely centuries) is almost as horrifying. I’m not big on the “evangelical atheists” as I call them, who are determined to convert as many people to atheism as possible (kind of like… oh, what’s that thing that tries to get people to think and do whatever they say? oh yeah: religion). think having some people in the public eye, like Hitchens was, take a position against religion is an important counter-balance to famous religious people and it’s very important for people to educate themselves and to talk about abuses that are happening within specific religions, sects, or cults (like Leah Remini speaking out against Scientology but Elisabeth Moss, who is a great -and influential- actor refusing to acknowledge that her religion is severely hurting children and families) and I don’t think any topic should be off-limits or censored, but when average, everyday people turn every conversation into a diatribe about the horrors and stupidity of religion, I tune out. I know the history of organized religion and all of the terrible things that have been done in the name of religion, but I’m agnostic: there is just way too much that little human brains can’t begin to comprehend (we can’t even see some of the most powerful and important things in our lives, like wi-fi or cellular or air!) and we know more about the workings of the universe -or think we do- than we do about our own brains or the oceans that cover most of our planet!) that I’m not going to presume to know anything as big as what happens to our consciousness after death or whether there are more intelligent life forms in the universe that are aware of us! If you start reading about quantum physics, you quickly find out that a lot of things that seem like they would make no “common sense” do make sense to quantum physicists! Funny similarity between religion and science: until you have spent a very, very long and thorough amount of time studying aspects of each, you have to take someone else’s word for it when they say they have an answer! Science at least has the scientific method, which relies on peer review and replication of experiments… but what about the replication crisis? I’m largely hoping for some kind of afterlife in which everything is made clear and all questions answered, but I’m not betting on anything at all. Simply (and, I believe, reasonably) IDK!

Church is a shit good enough to digest by believers.... 😁

@Jessica Creel Jesus actually healed sick people though (at least if you believe the stories), and hated self-righteous show offs like the Pharisees who showed off in stunts like Theresa’s homes for the sick and dying.

Yea? And where were the Indian people and the governments and the Hindus or Muslims ???? Cut the crap. U weren’t there. U didn’t see sh*t. Another atheist with scripted hate speech. What did u do for the poor and starving if u went? Kept a diary did u? Hmm? Still living there are u? Guessing your answer is nope…lol

That says it all there.....

A woman like Mother Teresa, who was too ugly to ever get any dick, becomes a mean-spirited sadist.

the poison of religion .C.H.a mental leviathan.

i feel we need him now, as he would be a greatly influential warrior against the sjw movement of today.

Absolutely. I would have loved to hear his thoughts on these nutjobs. :(

+Comus89 ikr! :(

Afsheen Shargh Out of curiosity, I'd be interested in hearing your personal definitions of: 1. Social Justice Warrior 2. the 'sjw movement' (this one especially)

Pete Wylie are you Pete Wylie from Wah ?

He never endorsed a charity on KZfaq, because esophageal cancer happened to get in the way.

Jazz keyboardist - I have seen a couple of Christopher Hitchens videos where he says that he gives (gave) to Medicin Sans Frontieres. He used to maintain that he only gave to charties that did not have any religious affiliations.

Jazz keyboardist - I have 14 videos of Christopher Hitchens on the "God & Religion" playlist on my channel and in at least 2 of those he talks about the various charities he gives to. I could trawl through them to give the actual video & time Christopher Hitchens' "worshipers". I hope you don't include me in that

@Jazzkeyboardist1 It appears mockery is a common tactic when arguments are lacking. There are plenty of facts at hand demonstrating the horror of hoarding millions of dollars, some stolen, meant for caring for the dying and suffering poor. All that money....where did it go? It certainly didn't help any of the suffering poor.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aNGKhaSAvauqgH0.html See, you could have found that, easily, if you actually gave a shit about the truth. But since you're more interested in spreading bullshit about how wonderful Monster Teresa and believing in god is, and how awful non-believers are (no idea what fucking war you're rambling about, btw), you didn't. Because it doesn't fit your brainwashed narrative.

Yep, LOL material

She was so keen to have the last word 😂

They thought they could gang up on him.

Well to be fair she is unlikely to ever get to reply in such a public manner. No TV station is about to give her money to do a puff piece on MT.

It is a reasonable statistic, M. Mackay.

@Jazzkeyboardist1 well, he helped to set up a permanent charity project with Professor Dawkins (Non- Believers Giving Aid) which seeked to help victims of the hurricane in Haiti a few years ago. And he has repeatedly stated where his money goes (red cross, doctors without borders). Money none of which is used to proselytize, what surely happens in religious charity all the time. Here is a starting point for you, if you want to read more about this. Regards m.huffpost.com/us/entry/429022?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAG10A18a1ryTy0kPNlp8CFDxbIV6DIQHL6RSsoeiTV-5zIJTZ42A-_oouKStlvf81e79sf6uLMO24yF9OrL_UtAZIna8SL1JUmbW4OR6HvcmRrKfWAeJIPivWiBPFolIF25mErCmwouIC8lZy2xW819dj_2lA4gMQnLeSXYZh0vI

​Well, I think I don't agree with this premise. You just literally have to type in "Hitchens charity" into google or the youtube search engine to get at least three videos where he, at minimum, implies where his money goes. And there is one specific where he emphasizes various organisations. If you want to see it I can link it for you. Fair enough, it is in fact Dawkins program, but as he stated, he helped Richard setting this up. On missionary work, here is what is meant: religious groups show up and spread their faith, hand out bibles and try to make more followers out of people who are in a desperate situation, which is a disgrace! When religious groups go out there without proselytizing I am all for it, but the religious are not very good at keeping their faith (which they by all means!) are entitled to have, to them selves. Here's the difference: when we support a charity project like, say: the red cross or doctors without borders through Dawkins foundation, no one of our camp is going to the ruins of Haiti to try to teach them biology, physics, philosophy or let alone atheism. And they shouldn't!!! The money is directly used to help the people independent of colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation or worldview. These aforementioned organisations will do their work without an agenda other than helping people who are in a dire situation! Doesn't that constitute the superior case? Would you mind explaining the connection between the charity in Haiti and the war (you mean the one in Iraq I assume). I didn't understand what you meant. Best regards from Germany PS: Can I ask you something? Are you in fact a jazz musician?

Agreed. Not a single chart, numbers or photographs of how the money was being used. What was more important to her was for people to know her name and image and that she was doing charitable work in India, I could ask almost anyone who knew who she was and they'd be unable to describe the facilities or medical care her organization would provide. On the other hand, I can barely remember the names of anyone working in Medecins sans Frontiers, but I know how their hospitals are organized, where they are working, how they provide care to anyone without proselitizing or making a distinction on race, political affiliation or religion. Now that's a charity worth giving to.

@@nicolao.dos.santos Look a squirrel!

Speculation is not fact

@@athonyhiggins3117 It's a lot more than speculation. She was a fraud and a con woman.

@@jcs1025 agreed if it's documented many thanks

Pretty hard for those who believed their entire lives that their religion can do no wrong.

@@reversal8250 Yup. It's called bias....and we all have biased attitudes towards certain things, we just don't like to admit it. bellycurious says, "I did (further) research...(and) changed my mind...How is that so difficult?" Because very few people enjoy admitting that they've been wrong about something (sometimes for years or decades). But it's the best way to make progress faster...

people are blind & brainwashed.no one,has bothered to find out where religion came from.they just follow which ever blindly..its not hard to find out,just dig thru ancient history,about 100,000 yrs ago...note,,,french missionaries went into the amazon jungle,to convert,& kill,thru disease,native to become god fearing,,then,,went in & cut all the tress down,as advancement..

Toadster I’m only biased towards my family, ie my husband, kids, parents, etc. Anything else I am never locked into cognitive dissonance to. If something happens to prove, that my beliefs of someone or something, is wrong....I will adopt the wider understanding of that. I’d rather gnaw my own arms off than lie to myself. We all grew up believing MT was a living saint. But I’ve seen and studied this....and she was a spiteful bastard. Suffering is close to godliness? How disgusting is that? She was a charlatan and a thief. Ask the poor people of Tahiti. She stole their money too.

@@pommiebears i saw a story on here,the real mt,was black,,but mt took all the glory as blacks are not godly enough..it seems,,even though,the blacks ruled most of asia for thousands of yrs..most all religious writings are b/s.missinformation.changed or omited from print.to suit the churches..of any denomination.basically,religion is history gone wrong,& came originaly as laws to live by,long,,before the flood..so,,burn that god damn load of lies..

Lol. Ya and that lady that laughed at it becuz she knows he was right. Classic.

That's right, they would have been outnumbered by Christopher doing the job himself.

I like the bank one. Best ad I've seen in a long time.

The gameboy too

Baxter's Soup

Yes! And in the soup ad the proper British guy said HERBS with an "H" !!!!! None of this stupid hoity-toity "Erbs" crap. Eddy Izzard: "...Because it's got a fucking H in it!"

That's a Ben Shapiro quote if I've ever heard one ha ha.

Bromar Vids unfortunately, but not surprisingly, shapiro does not follow his own statement

These rocket science intellectuals have to time for feelings.

You look super familiar

Spill the Tea you ignorant lady

It has long been proven that her fund raising through out the world did not go towards aiding the poor and sick in these areas. Wether or not critics funded her charity or not, has nothing to do with it. Noone here asks to get that money instead -> we simply say that when you claim to advocate for the poor and needy, you better do so, and not for some other means (like what she did, which was raising money for the catholic church)

He's not claiming to be charitable or for the people, MT was supposed to be, in the eyes of Catholics. Your flailing limbs are making you look rather childish here.

I am still wondering how on earth was she conferred with Bharat Rathna😅

@Jazzkeyboardist1 look at you being all triggered with facts about your precious sadistic mother, Theresa. No matter how you look at it, Theresa was just as evil as Hitler. Just as the catholic church is just as evil as the nazi part was. The church can no longer hide what it truly is, one of the longest running corrupt criminal organization.

@Jazzkeyboardist1 You are only proving his point: give to charity to feel smug about helping others. Whether anybody receives any help is irrelevant, you feel better for it.

He was always refreshingly direct and unapologetic

I also loved the "Quit Bleating!"

@@mitchlarsen3223 I wish someone had said "stop interrupting with your bleating". Poor old powerless catholic church apologists with their backs against the wall and poor brainwashed women

Maybe the best part!

🤙

She never got her bike...

"The missionary position" was the book title

@Jazzkeyboardist1 you actually lose Pascal's wager. What if the test is to see if you're done enough to follow a religion and only the non believers are given heaven?

@Jazzkeyboardist1 "Officially I am Christian because of pascal's wager,, it costs nothing to take pascal's wager." And your "God" falls for that ? Fake believers just in case ? Wow Some "God"

I laughed so hard when she said this :D

Yeah, just one word about catholic reputation: inquisition.

He died.

You realise the past perfect used?@@koppite9600

He was eloquent and had good command of the English language, doesn't mean his ideas are better than anyone else's. There are much smarter people with much better ideas but they have difficulty writing a book or performing an oration, especially in English if it is a second language to them.

you are poor in all the ways

Religion in the nut shell.

Absolutely-🙌🏽

Absolutely spot on. She was a real scumbag. One of the most evil humans to ever exist. To paraphrase Hitchens, " it's damned shame there isn't a hell for her to go to".

"Weird take on salvation by suffering"? I wouldn't mince words so much, maybe "perverse, sadistic, evil take on damnation through excessive voluntarily inflicted suffering".

And she probably convinced the dying that they will be saved and go to heaven🙄 if they accept their suffering 😡

I agree that he was a nice extremely erudite man but I don't think that he had an atom of humility in himself. Plus I prefer his brother

Possum now he’s in eternity and has discovered what it’s all about.

@@jimmy5634 Its childish to believe something for which there is precisely 0 evidence or proof. Santa is equally as likely to exist as God or the afterlife is.

What a great man Mr Hitchens was

@@anthonyparkinson8547 In fairness he was capable of self-deprecation on many occasions. My own politics are closer to Peter's on most issues, but I miss the whetstone of Christopher's arguments.

Peterson isn’t right on every topic. That doesn’t justify an ad hominem attack on him. Justin Peterson is a brilliant intellectual. As was Christopher Hitchens. I think Noam Chomsky has many extremely bad values, but I respect his work on linguistics.

+ben My pleasure -and I still have plenty of VHS tapes in my collection to go!

+Lost in Transmission what was the date of this episode?

+Ronan Yung It's from sometime in 1994, the week after Hitchen's documentary was broadcast on C4 (which is available elsewhere on KZfaq0

+Lost in Transmission are you going to upload more unseen hitchens videos? please do .

Keep watching - I'll have another studio discussion up shortly, this time from BBC2's Late Show, reviewing the Oliver STone movie JFK.

amojak hmm. starving souls in heaven. hmmm

@TO NO So she was basically doing a job that paid well , even though she didn't believe it. Probably a lot of bishops/vicars in that position.

I don't understand why she wanted to convert dying people. They would no longer be on Earth and how would it matter what their religion was?

@macsikar Mackay religion is useful to keep certain people wealthy , it is indistinguishable from a business or cult.

amojak unfair not true at all , and you can not win favour from God with a selfish and insincere heart . by the way, he reads hearts and minds, and is not stupid , you can't sneak one past God ..she would know that by the way, you can only win favour by a selfless act , and a true one , if you are looking for it, you won't get it , and people spreading the word of God are bad now? which part of putting others before yourself and forgiveness and helping the poor do you find bad? it is twisted what you say, and tell me what have you done to help anyone? do you volunteer in a soup kitchen, or do you sit on your fat arse and do nothing for anyone? take a good look in the mirror before having a go at others...

Yes, with the notable exception of Pope Cecilia during the schism within the Catholic Church.

This is easy to disprove: www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/spope3.html About a third of the popes were elected in their 50s, some in their 40s, a few in their 30s. So, no.

Aristo Telian I guess it depends what you class as old. The majority were all older than 50 on that table. Though that table has a lot of gaps which I'm assuming are unknown details. I guess it's fair to say they weren't all retirement age or older.

sach196 Especially the 30- and 40-year-olds

Aristo Telian Only 5 out of all 266 were under 50 (in their 30s and 40's) lol.

It's self loathing that they are taught from a young age, it's subtle, heinous and they don't even know it's happening.

You're the ultimate in naivety. Christianity and the sovereignty of the individual (which comes from Christianity) is what gave people the idea that women were equal to men. Stupid shit.

@@tylerjeb7888 You do know that the earlier Church fathers all looked down on women? Hell, I learned this in a Catholic School.

@@tylerjeb7888 Sovereignity of the individual did not exist until the christians were forced to capitulate alltother in 1648 when their struggle against souvereignity failed.

Yes it's very odd, this wish to be a submissive slave.

Yeah, that's pretty arrogant of her.