Truth! Triads and the major scale allow all the pathways to open up.

@@curiousguitarist and

@@curiousguitarist and

So glad to hear it, Scott! CAGED is such an eye opener, it really is one of the fastest ways to really start to "see" the instrument.

My work here is complete! Kidding, but only slightly. Once you stoke your curiosity enough you can largely become self-educating and seek out these answers specifically. This makes the time you focus on guitar MUCH more valuable and impactful. Because then you’re seeking out the thing you need, rather then just tossing darts out there! Great comment, thanks, Simon.

Glad you think so! Thanks!

Glad it was helpful, and glad you're here

That’s great to read, Tom. Thanks for the comment, and I’m so glad this was helpful.

Each CAGED shape has a corresponding major and minor pentatonic box. That was the real eye opener for me. Identify the root, boom there's a scale to match.

That's exactly what CAGED was designed to do...engage guitarists who either cannot, or will not, for some reason, study actual theory. It gets guitarists on the bus. But just like any other system that is designed for outliers, it cannot fulfill the complete picture. And for what it's worth, CAGED is the one that lays over all the triads...not the other way around. Triads, the major scale, the pentatonic scales, they were all here hundreds of years ago, before guitars roamed the earth. I really appreciate what CAGED can do for the guitarists that can't make sense of the fretboard, but once they do, hopefully CAGED can be retired for a system that allows for an "unfiltered" consumption of the facts.

Truth!!! Attaching stuff to CAGED is the way through it...eventually it runs it's course and you're just drinking the unfiltered stuff :)

Now you're sounding pretty dang curious! Love it!

Great post. I love this kind of story because it outlines that freedoms moment, when it ACTUALLY unlocks. Not the “unlock the fretboard in 30 minutes” hype, but really seeing it. Thanks for the comment!

Thanks yak, I simply can't do it any other way. I'm invested in getting guitarists "on the bus", that's what I love. Thanks for being here!

@@curiousguitarist Wow fast reply . 6.30 am here in NZ . I feel I'm on the bus but just behind the driver.

That makes me happy KD, Mahalo back to you, and thanks so much for your support!

You bet!

I need a triad chart! 😮

As long as you are learning, and moving forward I guess the actual method doesn’t really matter. CAGED needed to happen to help do just that, move the stubborn collective guitarist forward into the light of actual information. Thanks for the comment Franny!

Thanks, NC, I really appreciate that.

True, it's that adaptation that brings CAGED it's real potential.

Truth! Sing it, Keith! Perfect plan.

You bet.

That is the PERFECT way to leverage the CAGED system!

You're so welcome, glad you enjoyed this one!

You’re fine with CAGED, but there’s just so much more that can be “attached” to it. Triads are the single most liberating thing you can put on the fretboard in my opinion. Keep me posted!!

It really is a stellar system, but its highest purpose should be to open a guitarists mind, and then have them leave it behind.

If you're after minor and other chord types, your best and shortest route is studying triads. Maj = R 3 5 Min = R b3 5 Dim = R b3 b5 Aug = R 3 #5

Of course! Glad you’re here.

Exactly, and just think, Hendrix and Mayer never had the "CAGED" system, they just applied music theory to the fretboard in their own way(s)!!

@curiousguitarist Thanks Chris! Love your channel!

Yeah you bet! I agree that triad study is a MUCH more direct route. Thanks for the comment!

Thanks! Try these: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/palzerJ9vdyYmIU.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hquhntOQ19-7gps.html

@@curiousguitarist thank you sir. Best Guitar instructor on the tube bar none.

Spot on Jeremy. All of Chris content is fantastic but the triad videos are especially enlightening for building any chord using the major scale anywhere on the fretboard . Great job again Chris. Phil from Australia

Hello!

Perfectly stated...when you shift the limit to your curiosity, the need for even the BUS fades pretty quickly :)

I do like it, as a start. But it can’t provide a long term solution. I’m so glad you’re enjoying the channel, Chris

It is definitely a great foundation, I completely agree.

Registration for this course opens late August, then will be run in October :)

And it looks like I'll have to run it 3 times in 2024 :)

I believe at that point CAGED is meaningless :)

@@curiousguitarist it's non-tonal meaning no key signature implied. That is my main point it sounds entry level beginner level when the guitar solo lead line is not implying chord changes and not implying key signatures.

I learned everything in the CAGED system and more by studying triads and octaves, then overlaying the major and pentatonic scales to that scaffolding. It's all really the same stuff, CAGED just doesn't get you all the way there, but it is a great GREAT starting point!

I love that...what a great metaphor.

TRUTH!!! Thanks for the comment TC!

And can you describe the Gm shape, or the Cm shape? Because for me, they are unplayable in that context. This is where CAGED starts to break down, in the tenuous connection to open chord shapes that do not alter efficiently. I think the CAGHED system is great, especially to get guitarists started in seeing how music actually works. I give it full credit in being one of the best ways to fulfil THAT end. But it does not do much more than that. And since it's a system that uses references it was indeed totally "designed" as a lens. The relationships are all there, naturally, within the sonic geometry. But the references and connections are "planned out" to allow guitarists an easy way in. Great comment, thanks TW!

@@curiousguitarist Yes, take the ever popular minor pentatonics. The Gm pattern is the same as the same A pattern in G major. Within the Em shape is the infamous box pattern. And so on. True, not every chord shape is as practical as another, but CAGED doesn't demand you play a six string chord in every context. Nor does it prohibit inclusion of open strings to create unique voicings only available in that key. If you're in one position and wish to use nearby elements of the next shape in the sequence, they are there to use. And again, the more comprehensive teachers of CAGED stress the importance of connecting these shapes, patterns, & shapes, to move fluidly between them, and to maintain awareness of the chord intervals.

@@TreeWalker as long as CAGED is seen as a beginning it cannot fail :)

It is a great system to get that initial map, for sure. But octaves are just octaves...they aren't CAGED specifically. Mapping them is also a very very good start into seeing the design of the instrument.

each of the chord shapes contains a distinctive octave shape that can be mapped against scale patterns so that roots can be seen instantly. there are many maps of this on the web. also, the fact that major caged doesn't cover minor is exactly the same as major arpeggios not being minor, isn't it? a moot point (just to be clear, I think you are one of the best youtube tutors, but in this case, I think you do not get the full power of the caged system.)

@@theelderskatesman4417 I totally get it, but it’s locked to a guitarist if point of view. For example, I learned all of this context at conservatory and none of the open chords was ever mentioned. This is not a CAGED system bash, it’s just that the scaffolding has always been there, long before CAGED was marketed. And learning the triads and octaves simply carries no baggage along with it. I knew this would be a provocative subject :)

It does. Focus on the major scale for a while, and harmonize it. You'll never be able to unsee it after that.

@curiousguitarist OK thanks Chris.

@@johndelaney2957 keep me posted...I'm curious to hear when the light bulb goes on!

@curiousguitarist OK mate no worries I'll have to get into it, the best i can.

Thanks for the context!

It’s a fantastic system, but it carries a lot guitar-centric context by nature of being instrument focused. There is no equivalent “system “ for any other musical instrument which simply points to CAGED being a guitar “lens” applied to general music theory. While it works wonders as an into to theory on the instrument, it can become unnecessary baggage very quickly. I have nothing against the system at all, it just isn’t holistic. It’s guitaristic.

​@@curiousguitaristBut you could say that about any system for any instrument. There's a frame work for working out theory on the clarinet, tuba, and the harmonica. Those instruments have systems, CAGED is a system to use on the guitar. Once I got my head around the CAGED system and learned the fretboard learning theory on the guitar became a breeze. I'm not sure if it's a matter of semantics, but I feel like you are placing limits on what the system can be used for. For example, your comment about CAGED not having minor chords. I don't agree with that at all. To me the CAGED system is as essential to the guitar as white and black keys are for the piano. It brings structure to an instrument that is lacking in linear simplicity. I would love to see a video explaining where the CAGED system fails a guitarist. Cheers

@@Kevinschart if CAGED gets you started that’s great. Just don’t stay too long. And those other instruments don’t have “systems” because they don’t need them. It’s just music theory, no C, or A, or G analogies. Just musical constructs without a special lens to see them through. Please, please use the system, and don’t bother trying to convince me of anything. If it benefits you, why bother with what I believe? Please, if it gives you freedom, en with it!

​@curiousguitarist Are you saying that you, as an advanced player, no longer utilize the concepts covered by the CAGED system? Honest question. You also mentioned that CAGED has baggage? What baggage? Having said that, Maybe I just don't understand your take. I respectfully disagree with your last comment. I'm not saying that there is a "CAGED" equivalent, but piano/horn players organize theory on the instrument with "patterns" and "shapes", as an example. I may seem like I'm arguing or trying to convince you but I'm not. I'm trying to get my point across, in hopes that you can illustrate where CAGED fails a player. Of course CAGED does not cover every single aspect of the guitar, agree with you. But I don't think many people have that position. I appreciate the interaction.

@@Kevinschart I agree with your take on it, but all the other instruments use musical patterns generated by theoretical principles that are not tied to 5 specific major chord shapes that occur on the guitar. Those same mathematical patterns occur on the guitar of course, but go WAY beyond this 5 shapes. As a teacher I see all of them, not just those 5 shapes. When I learned major chord architecture on the fretboard I learned it as 12 individual triads, each one capable of being altered into min, dim, sus, aug, as well as seeing the scale structures (not just major) nested around them. There’s just so much more freedom and higher fidelity available past CAGED. But one last time, CAGED is a very valuable system that allows guitarists to begin to see their instrument. I believe it is a great GREAT start. And I don’t see this exchange as argumentative at all, I love it.

Indeed, CAGED reveals a lot and if that system is sufficient for you, then by all means USE it. I'm a huge fan of leveraging what works for you. My point here is that CAGED inserts a layer of reference that is unnecessary and only increases cognitive load for short term recognition. Eventually, no matter HOW you see it, you end up looking past CAGED.

TRUTH!

Thanks for the comment, George. CAGED is definitely an interpretation, and it has been deliberately formatted for guitarists, by guitarists and educators over time. I think the system is wonderful for guitarists who are hungry for the "why" of the instrument as it gives them an easy start. It just does not go far enough for the very curious ones. I'm not against it at all, I celebrate it. In fact students who come to me knowing CAGED have a huge time advantage over those that don't. But I do not teach it as I believe there are much faster and more holistic approaches.

Thanks for the reply, i get what you are coming from, my view is that no one sat down and thought it out really, its just "there" so why not use it as a springboard anyway! Regards ! @@curiousguitarist

@@georgerichardson7728 totally agree!

Some of these shapes share architecture, A and G for example, and C and D. These structures anchor on one another to form single shapes when you really dive into them. This is why breaking these larger shapes down to the core element of triads is actually the highest fidelity view of the entire matrix. Fun!

CAGED takes a week and a half to understand, but you must commit to a study, and if you’re not used to that it can be difficult to introduce rigor into a “hobby” that hasn’t featured focused study, and instead might rely on casual discovery instead.

Whenever the letters CAGED are used, no matter how much you attach to it, you are applying a guitaristic mask to the information. That’s my only point, no need to rush to CAGED’s defense, it will survive because it’s a GREAT system. But it’s a system, on top of another system. No other instrument needs this kind of crutch to get its players on board. But alas guitarists seem to be slow to get on the bus and understand what it is they are actually doing. Again, CAGED is a GREAT start. Just don’t allow yourself to stay there too long.

Its really down to how you interpret CAGED. If you stick to the first stage of learning the major shapes then of course its limited. If next you think of the intervals in the shapes, the triads in and around partial shapes. The extension into pents per chords and other scales. As soon as you start saying its an 'entry level' system or similar then people will bypass it and thats my issue. I think its a really valuable tool. Its not something you learn and ditch once you know about triads, its all connected. Other than that i did like your lesson.

@@franklynch5865 first off I hope this back and forth isn’t coming across as confrontational. I really appreciate it. I don’t see CAGED as entry level, but CAGED, by nature, is a positional system, a roadmap, a scaffolding, that is rooted in guitaristic context. and so while you can “attach” anything you’d like to it, and probably be successful, it will always be a membrane in between you and the information until you release it. My opinion on this is based on the fact that I knew music theory principals, based on intervallic application very well before CAGED was introduced to me. So I found it to be completely useless because I had a system for applying new information to the fretboard that functioned without the need for that CAGED context. I had moved beyond it by never learning it in the first place. I have no idea what your context is, and again I will cite the systems value to players that are new to understanding musical structure, but having seen and taught many methods including CAGED, I can only tell you that my preference is not to bog guitarists down with it. And in fact, CAGED reveals itself to guitarists as they proceed to incorporate musical concepts as a contextual “novelty”. It a great system for the value it brings. Thanks for this great back and forth!

That’s a really cool method, but for folks who really hunger to understand the fretboard in deeper detail, your idea doesn’t provide and context as to why that might work. It’s to deeper context that allows for an equal depth of understanding. Great comment!

That G shape sounds perfect to me as a C on the 8th fret...be sure you're barring the DG and B strings on the 7th fret to keep the intervals from the G shape consistent! Thanks for the comment.

Truth

All the time!

I see you signed up, I’ll message you there.