Yeah people are very much discounting the confidence aspect of not having to do the FA. Anyone who has projected a lot with climbers of similar strength has experienced a send train or something close to it after the first guy or girl proves a move or problem is possible. It makes a huge difference.

Soft would be what a less egotistical climber would suggest when comparing the first ascentionist grade with his own opinion

Hrrm, grades should be to compare between boulders, not to compare individual climbers struggles. Noone is taking anything from the FA by saying: "this climb felt more in line with the 8Cs I've climbed than the 8C+'s i've climbed"

​@@mattiasgoncziyeah, that's what I was thinking. The described mental struggle of finding moves that you aren't sure are even possible definitely is a factor, but it's not the case for repeats. We don't normally grade boulders by how difficult the FA was, that's even more subjective than normal grading since only one person could ever grade it. I see grades as a guideline for repeats anyways Also agree with your point about it not taking away from DW's 52 session effort to make the boulder happen

I think the ratio of American climbers coming over to the UK and downgrading our routes/problems falls significantly in your favour 😅

and sorry about the maths comment - we’d drunk too much coffee and were having way too much fun 🤣

Haha that’s probably true! Someone needs to keep a UK vs US downgrade log to keep score 😆 And coffee brings out the best in all of us… gotta just have fun with it, right?! 😁

Pure speculation on my part, but I doubt The Process was the hardest. Daniel was seemingly able to do all the crux moves relatively easily, he just kept dropping down before moving past the lip because he was getting spooked. It hasn't seen any repeats because Dan Beall broke it. ROTSW took Daniel way more effort than The Process did. I'm willing to bet the new line Sean Bailey just added (Devilution) on the Peabody is probably harder than The Process as well.

@@Mark198d I put the “(really… not really)” to try and show I wasn’t that serious with my remark and to bring it up in the context of Sleepwalker which has seen many repeats when compared to the process which has seen 0.

We didn’t want to pander to that awful behaviour!

@@ukclimbingofficial booooo boooo

This one’s not the futurefleece, it’s the Casaval which we reviewed last year here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hJ1jZ92WmdTGipc.html and here: www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/softshell/the_north_face_casaval_hoodie-15061

@@ukclimbingofficial nice one, thanks for the reply! The wish list keeps growing 😅

link?

@@songxu5286 it’s from however long ago I’ll need to go find it again I think it was with evolv maybe I’m not sure

@@songxu5286 I’m gonna try and find it, I ran across it like 2 years ago while he was trying it. It may have been on Instagram maybe, he was talking about how he did the stand 4 times in 1 day and how it might not be v15 but it might be v15 😂 if I find it I’ll send it over

Downgrading, upgrading, confirming its all part of building a consensus

@@MrJarastamon Exactly that 🙏

Bodies are different, people are different, a grade is a grade and should remain at whatever the first ascensionist felt about. Especially at this level of climbing.

@@troyaraiza Grades remaining static doesn't make much sense to us. Whilst they are subjective and people are different, they can also be wildly wrong!

@@troyaraiza young og for real though. It's just ego lifting and since when did rock climbing become so bureaucratic. However Tan is still a purple tag.😬

I respect that, even if I don’t agree with it 😅

@@ukclimbingofficial Really?! Just to be sure, it’s a response to the titleI, and I think Mr. Bosi will destroy just about any boulder put in front of him at this point! No?

Sorry, it turns out I’d completely misunderstood. It transpires we’re on exactly the same page 🤦‍♂️ I need to stop getting back to messages at 8pm on a Friday night 😂

I'm not saying Daniel isn't qualified to propose V17, but several of his proposed V16's have been downgraded after he made the FA (Box Therapy, The Game). That stuff just happens through refining beta, different body types etc. That is what a consensus grade is for.

Tom O‘Halloran mentioned something in one of his videos which stuck with me: the 2 “worst” people to grade something are the person who had to spend an insane amount of time to do it and the person who flashed it… I don’t expect the sit will see a downgrade, but not because it took DW so long to do it. Alex Megos spent a long time on Bibliography which now it sits at 9B+ (with quite a few repeats), simply because there seemed to be a more efficient beta 🤷🏼‍♂️

I think that is exactly the aspect where a lot of misconception arises when talking about grading. I believe it was Adam Ondra, but could have been anyone from those incredible superhuman climbers (:P), who said that any given grade should represent the difficulty of the grade with perfect conditions. that means: peak conditions, KNOWING the beta, and so on... While I totally agree with you, that establishing a FA is an amazing achievement, especially in these grade ranges, where you have to have the confidence and the vision to keep on it and believe in the possible send; figuring out the beta and so on. BUT that does not really have to do a lot with the final grade. As said before the grade represents the difficulty in peak conditions. One other commenter said that already - bibliography by alex memos is a perfect example for that. So there is not necessarily anything egotistical about it. I am sure there are some that might use it that way, but I doubt there will be many at the high end of the spectrum. ESPECIALLY, Will Bosi, I mean he just seems like such a genuine guy There are numerous examples in climbing where somebody advances beyond what was formerly thought possible and then more and more and more people do it because they know that it can be done. Heck even with the low grades i am climbing at - when I suddenly see one of my climbing partners stick a move, I get a confidence boost.

Ironically I think Will would have had an easier time on Megatron as it’s more his style. Quite cool he chose to try ROTSW first though. As for which is harder, only time will tell…