Can I fix this shorted Amiga 1200?

  Рет қаралды 6,920

CRG

CRG

Күн бұрын

Another repair to look at this week but this one is a little bit different in that this Amiga 1200 motherboard has a dead short between VCC and GND, buy why?
This one sends me on a bit of journey but sure its all good practise.
Featuring clip from @RobSmithDev used with permission.
Robs videos on repairing a shorted 1200:
Part 1 - • SHORTED Amiga 1200! Th...
Part 2 - • SHORTED A1200! But Whe...
CRG Twitter - / yt_crg
CRG Patreon - www.patreon.com/user?u=13919007
CRG Discord - / discord
Chapters
00:00 Intro
00:18 A look at the board
03:30 Shorted capacitor?
05:11 Is it the through hole caps?
06:41 Is it the surface mounted caps?
09:45 The plan to find a shorted ceramic.
11:50 Not quite to plan
13:20 Plan B
15:29 Filter?
17:29 Repairing the broken power trace.
17:52 Testing
22:02 Trying to repair the CPU slot
24:00 Wrap up

Пікірлер: 77
@user-zx7fb3gh6f
@user-zx7fb3gh6f 4 ай бұрын
In repairing avionics equipment. To find a short we sometimes put the PCB in a deep freezer until the card frost over. Then when we apply power(current limited) the short thaws first. You can take a marker and mark the bad path to the short. We let the board completely dry before further troubleshooting.
@ChuckyGang
@ChuckyGang 7 ай бұрын
Instead of waiting 30 seconds watching a black screen. a hint is to add a powerled.. as the powerled goes to full brightness after 1 sec if code is running..
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Good point, I should make up an led to plug in when I need it. Should probably write a set of diag roms as well!
@sub33d32
@sub33d32 7 ай бұрын
You have great determination resolving the short that way, we fix a large number of PCB's with shorts (often shorted ceramic caps), we have thermal camera's but often find voltage/current injection works better for hard shorts where little heat is generated. To diagnose a 5V short, set a lab PSU to 5V 100mA (you can increase the current but you risk damaging traces etc) then inject it into the PCB 5V rail close to the PSU input, then simply set your multimeter to mV and start probing the 5V capacitors (or other components on the 5V rail), you will notice the mV decrease as you get closer to the short, the lowest reading (usually close to 0mV) should identify the issue/component, you can also inject the 5V 100mA across the 5V rail away from the PSU input if you suspect an issue around that area.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Thanks for the tip, I'll try that next time.
@rfxtuber
@rfxtuber 6 ай бұрын
@@CRG The thought process and logical thinking towards fixing the problem was far more valuable than the actual fix... Enjoyed very much indeed CRG.
@imqqmi
@imqqmi 3 ай бұрын
Nice fix! Lucky the rest of the machine wasn't damaged due to the short! A thermal imaging camera would probably picked up the heating of the coil even if it's a few tenths of a degree you would've picked up on it. Yes it costs money but it can save you a lot of time fault finding, and it's great for finding cold spots during winter in your house, insulating those and avoiding cold bridges with dampness and fungus etc can save you a lot of headaches. I've also used it on my car to spot a weakness in the exhaust pipe, a brake jaw being stuck etc. that the car repair men didn't pick up on. Oh and buy low melt solder, it'll help not lifting pads as it lowers the melting temperature even more than leaded solder. I've soldered and removed 44 pin PLCCs more than 10 times from the same set of pads and there's no damage. I only needed 10mm of that stuff to remove the IC.
@miked4377
@miked4377 7 ай бұрын
that was a helluva wild goose chase until you found the culprit!these amiga boards are something else sometimes..great job glenn!
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Thanks, it did send me on a bit of a journey.
@AlenMarkov
@AlenMarkov 7 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing Commander!
@josephphillips9243
@josephphillips9243 7 ай бұрын
Well done my friend. I had a proud laugh at your misfortune but was still impressed with how you went about it. Super impressed with what you had planned with the contact cleaner.
@watchmakerful
@watchmakerful 7 ай бұрын
There is a simpler way to localize the short circuit. Take a sensitive milliohm meter (a modern 10000 count multimeter at the 100 Ohm range will be typically enough) and measure the resistance in various points on the shorted line. The lowest resistance will indicate the culprit.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
I tried that with my meter and I have had some luck with it before but on this board it was just 0.04ohms everywhere which is probably the leads themselves. Probably should have shown that in the video!
@watchmakerful
@watchmakerful 7 ай бұрын
@@CRG Less than 0.01 Ohm difference all over the board? The power lines should be really thick and wide for such a low resistance.
@watchmakerful
@watchmakerful 7 ай бұрын
@@CRG You can also feed a high fixed current and measure the voltage drop (this is often called the "4-wire" method).
@deborahberi3249
@deborahberi3249 7 ай бұрын
Great troubleshooting work! -Mark.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Thanks 👍
@force4200
@force4200 7 ай бұрын
Great work finding the short great channel 👍😋
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Thanks, glad to hear you're enjoying the channel.
@SebsPlaceYT
@SebsPlaceYT 7 ай бұрын
I started watching your rgb mod for G7000 videos, and now I'm down a CRG sized rabbit hole. Great stuff!
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
That's a big rabbit 😅. Glad to hear you've been enjoying the videos.
@saeidyazdani
@saeidyazdani 7 ай бұрын
I enjoyed watching your troubleshooting 😊
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Thanks, glad to hear you enjoyed it.
@Ragnar8504
@Ragnar8504 7 ай бұрын
IPA on shorted boards has one disadvantage - it's quite flammable as TheCod3er proved in one of his YT videos.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Yeah I was worried about flames but I suppose it would have added some drama 😅
@coolvideos8864
@coolvideos8864 7 ай бұрын
Seriously love your channel mate! Nice video, as always.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Thanks, glad to hear you're enjoying the videos.
@coolvideos8864
@coolvideos8864 7 ай бұрын
@@CRG I have an a600 with non functioning onboard IDE if you fancy a look? Would appreciate it if you could, ok if not
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
@@coolvideos8864 more than happy to look at it but at this stage it'll be after Christmas. Are you sure its not just the ROM in it? Some 600s shipped with a ROM that doesn't have the IDE support in it, or only supports small drives. Drop me an e-mail casualretrogamer@outlook.com if you want me to look at it.
@coolvideos8864
@coolvideos8864 7 ай бұрын
@@CRG thanks for the reply, I’ll try another ROM tomorrow. I’ll drop you an email. Thanks, Graham
@larsenmats
@larsenmats 7 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video 😄
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching 👍
@mikedefoy
@mikedefoy 7 ай бұрын
Another great video, Glenn! Back when I was QA Mgr for T.I., we were fortunate to have both the thermal image camera & a device that allowed us to check surface mount components while in the board. I learned to start from the voltage in, the IC pins, sockets, a full board wash, and de-oxit sockets later seemed to help cut our refurb time down considerably.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Sounds interesting. In hindsight I should have started from the voltage in and checked that filter first!
@a120068020
@a120068020 2 ай бұрын
The black screen delay on boot is a 3.1 ROM "feature" it expects a HDD - if you put in an IDE drive or IDE to CF or IDE to SD it will boot quicker (or use 3.0 ROMs)
@jerkerivarsson938
@jerkerivarsson938 7 ай бұрын
your'e the man. Love your videos.
@DrDavesDiversions
@DrDavesDiversions 7 ай бұрын
Wow, great that you fixed it. You win the tenacity award. :)
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Thanks, I knew I'd eventually find the shorted part, I just never expected it to be what it was!
@gregdunlap7538
@gregdunlap7538 7 ай бұрын
Cool to see another rev. 1a board; that's what mine is, and it also took out an accelerator connector due to the square edge! I've since chamfered mine as well.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
First time I've had one on the bench, was good fun to work on, even if it did send me on a journey 😅
@db_37205
@db_37205 7 ай бұрын
I notticed that a cap was placed between the 10 uF next to the IDE Header, and the 22 uF behind the RF modulator, so when the two 1000 uF caps returned (?), you chose to leave it.
@stevenbrentson8
@stevenbrentson8 7 ай бұрын
I’m fairly certain that there are international treaties in place that prohibit the mixing of two-part epoxy directly on your solder mat.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
I cleans off easily enough with a little IPA, but yeah I'll use a bit of cardboard next time 😆
@watchmakerful
@watchmakerful 7 ай бұрын
By the way, the power trace has burned out BEFORE the filter but not anywhere AFTER it, this can be the clue...
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Yeah that's a good point and in hindsight it would have been a heck of a lot easier to just pull the filter and test it to begin with.
@christopherjackson2157
@christopherjackson2157 7 ай бұрын
I tend to think the original cause of the fault was a bit of solder or a stray capacitor leg ended up in the slot. Just based on the visual inspection and the board having been recapped.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Possible, the short certainly occurred at the cpu slot but I've nothing to confirm how.
@markvandesande8855
@markvandesande8855 2 ай бұрын
Lol aways start at the beginning lol. 😢
@proteque
@proteque 7 ай бұрын
:D It would be VERY late on my list as well!
@otis7359
@otis7359 7 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video. Thermal cameras really are too expensive. I also tried rosin atomizer, but it only leaves mess on the board and is not really useful. Other method which could be worth considering, if you can reduce problem to some smaller area, is using one of those cheap laser thermometers and check one component after another.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
I looked at those atomizers but was told they leave a terrible mess which is hard to clean up. I do have one of those digital thermometers and I was thinking about it but not knowing were on the board was shorted it would have taken a long time to find.
@tenminutetokyo2643
@tenminutetokyo2643 7 ай бұрын
This happened on my PSOne and two SMD caps blew a chunk out of the board when they blew.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
That typically happens more with tantalum caps, they like to exploded when they fail although I suppose with enough current a ceramic could get hot enough to frazzle.
@jimmoorephoto
@jimmoorephoto 7 ай бұрын
Very same thing happened to my TF1230 - connector pins pushed out of alignment. How you planning on fixing the board? I was told it was going to be too difficult to remove the connector on the board to replace. Cheers! Jim
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
All I can do is try to remove it. The old connector is scrap so I may have to pull the pins out one at a time.
@ddniUK
@ddniUK 7 ай бұрын
Good video. I hope Honest Gamer has a trusted PSU to use with the repaired board. Did he send you the one he used?
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Yes, he has a different psu now but no he didn't send the psu he was using when it went. All he provided was the board.
@ddniUK
@ddniUK 7 ай бұрын
@@CRG be great to know what the “bad” PSU did.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
@ddniUK I've been struggling with that one myself. If the psu shorted internally it would only have damaged itself, if its outputs had gone high it could have caused the short but I would have expected it to fry the Amiga. Given the damage at the cpu slot all I can conclude is that the board shorted here but the fact the psu had no over current protection lead to the trace burning through and the damage to the filter.
@DrDavesDiversions
@DrDavesDiversions 7 ай бұрын
@@CRG Ya, nothing I see here indicates (to me) that the PSU was a problem. I only have experience with an Electroware PSU for the 64, but I was happy with its build quality and components. The 64 PSU by Electroware uses a quality Mean Well switching power supply inside that has overcurrent protection, if memory serves (from my buying Mean Well components). I would not be surprised if their Amiga PSU also uses a Mean Well switching power supply inside. If interested, I have a video teardown, mod, and rebuild an Electoware PSU - it's called "Electroware C64 PSU heavy-duty mod (30W DC power)" on my channel. (Not posting link to avoid angering the YT comment killer. :) Peace.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
@@DrDavesDiversionsI'll take a look, thanks. I've used meanwell PSUs to replace failed Amiga PSU bricks (just swapping out the internals of the PSU case) and as you say they always seem to be well built.
@MrSeanyb99
@MrSeanyb99 7 ай бұрын
Great video, especially chasing the fault. You can still get a deal on thermal kit, it’s only the high resolution cameras that are eye watering expensive 😮 A budget one will do the job most times, but you can also use flux resin with an ioniser to identify thermal stress on components.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
I looked at those flux resin things but I was told they make a terrible mess which is hard to clean up and given the size of the 1200s board there would have been a lot of flux fog. I may get some sort of thermal imaging device at some point but few other bits of equipment I want to buy first. Thanks for the tip and glad to hear you enjoyed the video.
@Toby_Q
@Toby_Q 7 ай бұрын
I don't think you did the current limit setup properly. You should turn current limit to 0, set your voltage, short your leads, then turn the current limit up until you hit the voltage and current you expect. That's the way I do it at least. You're testing for a dead short, and if you want 5v at 100ma, you need to set your meter to 5v 100ma with a dead short (shorting the leads first). If you search up Adamant IT he has a video about voltage injection that talks about this. He's referring to modern computers with CPU's that only take 1 volt, but the theory is the same.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
I'll take a look thanks, I've not done this before so just had a go as how I thought it should work.
@VeryWarmBear1
@VeryWarmBear1 7 ай бұрын
You can rewind choke/transformer
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
Good point although I had the spare so easier to just use that.
@UpLateGeek
@UpLateGeek 7 ай бұрын
OK, I've paused the video at the beginning, and I've watched enough Lateral podcast highlights that I think I can figure out the reason. Obviously could be the usual capacitor or dodgy logic chip, or it could be a burnt resistor. Maybe a diode? Or perhaps you don't mean a short circuit, maybe someone has short sold it on the stock market? No, that's silly. How about short sold it on a retro forum, like they've borrowed it from someone and sold it at a higher price in the hope of finding one for cheaper and buying that to replace the one they borrowed? Or maybe I should stop trying to turn this into a game show and just watch the video to find out.
@UpLateGeek
@UpLateGeek 7 ай бұрын
Well, it certainly wasn't what I expected, but good on you for persisting and spotting the dodgy coil. By the way, the joke would be "there's a broken ferrite ring on my Wang", or before you found the fault, "I hope my Wang hasn't blown its cap!"
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
A broken ferrite ring on your wang... sounds painful 😂
@2009numan
@2009numan 7 ай бұрын
couls you not just have checked those caps while they were in the board
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
They are all vcc on one side and gnd on the other so all read as shorted while on the board. In hindsight when nothing was getting hot I should have stepped back and checked other things before starting into the ceramics. But it's done now and at least I got it fixed in the end.
@2009numan
@2009numan 7 ай бұрын
it isn't astually a pin on that connector its a copper trace
@PJBonoVox
@PJBonoVox 7 ай бұрын
He knows what it is dude, stop nitpicking.
@CRG
@CRG 7 ай бұрын
I don't script my videos, rather I just talk as I work so yes on occasion I may describe something wrong although I'm sure you knew what I was talking about.
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