B-roll of leopard geckos is from Exotics of the world TV and JTB reptiles!

My leopard gecko colony defecates in the same corner.

Great job...really appreciate the research! Facts over feelings. Subscribed!

This is the best response to all of this drama going on and it’s the most informal as well. Thank you for sharing your extensive research 🙏🏾

I'm so glad to see a comeback of these in-depth evidence-based videos! Absolutely love it!

Thank you for shedding some light when and where it was needed. Sometimes the adult in the room needs to stop the children from fighting. You’re a good teacher.

'Dogma is the enemy of progress'. Very well said. Too often we stick to rigid guidelines without looking at the specific situation, temperament, tolerance and preferences surrounding our animals. Resistance to change in the face of new information because it is inconvenient, or expensive, or embarrassing to admit we were wrong or walk back positions we've held/defended in the past along with some folks desire to tear down someone who 'doesn't keep their pet the way i do' is so toxic.

I've been keeping reptiles for a long while now, worked in a few shops, been there done that. One thing I have learned is how so many species we thought to be strictly solitary can and do thrive when cohabitated APPROPRIATELY with their own species. I've observed first hand social behaviours from so many "strictly solitary" species that its changed my perspective completely. I used to keep my leopard geckos in their own vivariums and they did absolutely fine. However I decided to set up a very naturalistic large vivarium for a 1:2 trio and they've gotten on without issue. I've observed them choosing to share the same basking spots, feeding together, and even some non verbal communication behaviours which is so interesting. Sure they have the occasional scuffle but thats from the girls telling the male to pack in his mating behaviours. He gets the hint and takes himself away. This hobby has come leaps and bounds since I started keeping. Its amazing.

Liam. Well done! This was so well explained and you brought receipts. Great work!

This is precisely how it needed to be addressed. Sharing this video elsewhere to get the message across, thank you!

Very good video, I would love to see someone replicate this in captivity in the appropriate size enclosure :')

Such a reasonable and dare I say, SCIENTIFIC response to a very unscientific meltdown that has happened in the last week. Thanks so much for putting this info together!

Great video, and I liked how you pointed to research to back up what was being said. I also agree that cohabitation is something that a more advanced keeper could try. Also, I would suggest having an additional enclosure available if aggression is observed so individuals could be separated. I've had this issue with my Emerald Tree Skinks, which can be cohabitated. They are still individuals, and sometimes they don't get along well with certain individuals, and need to be separated. As for criticism and critique, I think people need to understand that not all criticisms are personal attacks.

Never subbed so fast in my life, excellent information with real sources!

Thank you for this video! Adam has been getting so much undeserved heat. You have a new subscriber sir! I look forward to watching all your other videos! 😊

We once thought 20 gallons was adequate, that loose substrate caused impaction, and that UVB was useless for nocturnal species. Over the years we learned more and changed our standards, and I think cohabitation could be the next thing we re-evaluate. At the very least we should open the floor up for conversation online, as the practice is considered taboo is just about every circle and just mentioning it will get your post deleted or downright banned.

It's really interesting how much more we have to learn about reptile social behavior, but it's also because of this that I'm personally against cohabbing. Yes. There are potential benefits. But are they worth the risks and potential issues? Can being in the same space with other geckos 24/7 with little room to roam lead to increased stress/ aggression? Do geckos comprehend the food abundance I'm captivity or still bully eachother for dominance over a perceived limited resource? We simply don't know the full details yet. I'm not just theorizing either, I have personal experience with cohabitation too. I tried cohabbing banded geckos (close relatives of leos with similar behavior) a few years ago. I set up a large bioactive enclosure with plenty of hides, plants, climbing areas, burrows, and enrichment for a male and two females. Over the next 3 months one of the females refused to eat even when directly offered food, and withered away. While the remaining two got along for around 6 months longer, when the breeding season arrived, the female must've rejected the male and bit him, and I found him one morning with a broken spine. He died a day before I could get him to the vet. Now I just have the one female left, and she's energetic and healthier than ever. While I probably could've done some things differently, like reintroducing another female or two to balance the spcial group, my setup was about as close to nature as you could get in captivity, and things still went wrong. I spent months researching this species and their needs before even setting up the enclosure, and have been keeping reptiles for nearly a decade too. I'd much rather keep my animals separate and guarantee their health than keep them together and risk their safety. I still miss that little male today, he was very friendly and would even crawl onto my hand and chill with me for hours on end each night.

I love this video! Thank you for putting together this information in a comprehensive way. I'd love to read more research but it's sometimes hard for me to get through, so I really appreciate your channel. :)

Great video , thanks!

You've earned a new subscriber! Very informative video here!

This was such an educational video! I can tell that you spent a ton of time researching, and I learned countless new things. Thank you for posting this!

The problem that I see in that people who know what they are doing put up videos of co-habitation of leopard geckos, then someone who has just got the idea of getting one thinks "oh, they can be co-habbed! Great! I will get three and put them in the 20 gallon tank I have" -- and yes, there are those people. People often think they know it all even when they don't, and they also think they can do things well and do things differently and better, and it is not necessarily true. I have known people who are like that, and I bet most have. And usually it doesn't matter what the person in the video says, but what the beginner sees in the video. So no, I am not against co-habitation, but until there is more research on the subject, I would be very careful on how to portray it in a KZfaq video. This video was good, like always, though I don't think most first time leopard gecko keepers will be watching it, unfortunately.

Awesome video mate thanks for the clarity

Wonderfully informative video. Well done!

Great video! Thank you for sharing and taking the time to provide this information

I read the Secret Social Lives of Reptiles not too long ago and although the researchers highlighted some interesting things, the common refrain was we really don't know much about reptile sociality. Part of the reason is that they're difficult to study, but also, researchers have largely neglected reptile behavior, cognition, and sociality. There's a huge bias among researchers, with most preferring to study mammals and birds. Snakes are especially understudied, being the most cryptic and the most reviled.

Cant believe I just saw this now! Excellent video, great work!

Great job with this Liam!! 👏🏻

🙏 love this. Well researched, well presented, well said. ✌️ love the closing line

Amazing video! Great information ❤

So much great info, as usual!!

Wow! Great job, Liam. For me that ranks up with your best, such as your live vs frozen/thawed vid

I appreciate you so much for your research and teaching style

Thank you for posting this! Solidarity for the science and progress in standard of care!

Excellent presentation. Open communication is key especially when we are diametrically apposed in proper care. The key is the experience of the keeper as well as the temperament of the individuals. Thank you

Great Video Liam 👏

Like these care videos! 👍

Excellent video! A very scientific and positive response to all the recent drama. I know I can count on this channel for actual research.

Ok so after seeing this along with a bit of research I'm happy to say I've learnt something new . Kind of makes me feel the KZfaqr who went at wikens might not be as clued up as she seems. This is a great way of explaining and a terrific video. As a recently ex leo breeder i will be sharing this on my socials to spread the information. I honestly thought they were solitary before now lol

Great video! Good timing too :-)

Only been subscribed for a few months but this is slowly becoming one of my favorite channels in herpetoculture spaces. I also like how you temper research and seemingly cold research with understanding without bias to one way or another.

Geckos in general seem to be rather social, they vocalize and most seem to have at least some social adaptations. Many geckos are social to a degree that they do better in groups, mourning geckos for example seem to be bolder in groups then alone. There is almost certainly a right way to keep geckos in groups, it probably just requires a lot more space and hides then most people give them. With social fish like cichlids and social frogs like dart frogs it is important that they dont always see each other and can get away from each other if needed.

Very good, Liam!

Great video,

Amazing video! This was necessary and maybe will help people be more open minded!

Some nice B-roll there mate hahahahaha

Thank you, very interesting! I hope research continues. I really want to know more about the shared basking and nesting behavior. It's so mysterious still.

Thank you for this well reasoned perspective based on science.

Excellent explanation, new sub :-)

Ive been breeding geckos. And I've seen first hand that cohab makes for healthier animals most of the time. So glad there's science to back up my beliefs😊

The notion that leopard geckos and other reptiles in general can't be social or communal is kind of mind blowing to be honest. What would give anyone the notion that they can't be?

Very interesting video. Where did your shirt come from? I used to live in Penfield , NY.

Liam.,this is my favorite all time video you have done and I hope you do more deep dives on this species,especially the social aspects. My ears really perked at these geckos having communal latrines. My house rabbits had them (which I provided with sifting litter boxes) and I've found cottontail communal latrines on my walks as well. But I do wonder if leos lived sided by side,but separated by mesh could be moved to a larger enclosure with hamster mazes,etc. so no gecko could trap each other,would social aspects emerge? There are so many questions...Anyway,wonderful,insightful video.

Liam, thank you so much for bringing literature and studies into the conversation. It easily becomes "he said, she said," but what does science say?

Thank you, great video 🍺

A nice 6x4x4 grow tent, lots of climbing and plenty of room for 3 sides of 4 foot high fake walls on lined with solid playpen panels on the side and back, a huge deep twinwall/coroplast base built to depth you want, just follow the basic c&c cage base. Silicon to seal. My old anole bioactive cage was a 18x18x36 inch screen and i made a 10 inch deep sealed base for it, no leaks ever because it was so deep.

12:17 This is a great argument! My girlfriends sister has 2 male bunnies and they have fought before, with her needing to seperate them temporarily. No one would argue however that because they fought, they should be kept alone for the rest of their life. When it comes to cohabbing reptiles, many people do say you need to keep them alone because of the risk that comes with it. Cohabbing isn't "essential", so it shouldn't be done. What that reminds me off, is the conversation around UV for nocturnal reptiles. "They don't need UV, so there's no need to give it to them". We ackowledged that UV is beneficial however, and therefore still recommend each owner to use it. Now I'm not saying that we should recommend each and every leopard gecko owner to cohab them, not at all. But to discourage, or especially crucify experienced keepers from it because "it's not essential as it would be for bunnies, rats, etc." is also a bit silly to me. That there's risk involved isn't inherently a bad thing, especially if it can be beneficial. I myself create risk of falling injury by adding climbing opportunities for my bearded dragon, yet that doesn't mean I shouldn't do so, and many people would agree with that.

Years ago I used to keep 4 female leopard geckos together in a 4ft viv with lots of different hiding places at different levels and I found they did hide together and feeding was fine they was no fighting etc they got on very well all the same weight and size so I would say yes to having a group if just females and the Viv size etc gives them everything they need

Also when my colony is sleep one is always on the lookout it's funny lol when I come in the room or make a unusual sound the lookout peeps

Thank you for this video. I've been teetering on breeding leopard geckos for some time now. I was always hesitant, as I worried about many of the reservations you mentioned people have. My first reptile was a leopard gecko. I had cohabbed her with another female years later. Im not saying it was a good idea. In hindsight, there was a lot wrong with the situation. The females were dispreportionately different in size. The 2nd leo was a rescue, and though healthy, she was half her cage mate's size. I provided a multitude of hides and 4 basking spots. They had all their needs provided for and ample space. They always were in the same hide together. I wanted to breed and then cohab a clutch of leopard gecko females in one big enclosure. But I have been terrified to do so because of how lucky I felt dodging catastrophe with my first cohabbing setup. After watching your video and reading some of your sources' material, I feel they didn't murder each other because of how well I did to meet their needs.

This is why i study reptiles behaviors all day and all night long i have watched the interactions between solo reptiles and between the ones that are paired up together from what ive seen alot of geckos do thrive better cohabing now their are certain species that do prefer to be alone more but even my long tailed grass lizard is in a cage with a green anole those 2 have been housed this way for 3 years and been doing beautifully and i didnt house them like that on purpose either my long tailed grass lizard would always get out of his cage during feedings and cleanings every time i would find him on my green anoles cage she would come up to meet him on her cage so i tested it out i put them on my bed together they were great together so i put them in a 45×45×45 tank and they been together happily since odd little couple but they love it so my point is in the wild many species live amongst themselves cohabing and thriving just find all they need is personal space for them to grow together

Im not against cohabbing. Not even against cohabbing different species where appropriate. But enclosure size and how it's utilized is the issue. My issue with the videos and creator that stirred all this up is the enclosure was a 4x2x2 and 6 geckos were added. That's tight quarters and makes it very difficult for the geckos to find a safe space if being overwhelmed. A 6x3 or similar footprint? Ok, that could be something to try and could very well be beneficial if the animal is having safe interactions with others of its kind. More appropriate if time was taken to build up the background and sides to create more tunnels and crevices, which really wasn't the case in the videos in question. You mentioned considering this in one of your 7x2s with a few leos. That is much more reasonable than the controversial size and numbers of 6 in a 4x2x2 which were shown in the questionable videos.

Nice one! On one hand we are trying to build enriching environments but on the other we are denying them large part of important interaction with the same and other species when housed as indiciduals. Even the most individual species don't live in their habitats on their own and have to be able to process encounters with whole variety of apecies. In this respect I also like Dillon's recent episode with Jamie Woods about biofeedback which resonates a lot with me. We had a similar discussion about social/individual housing of fire skinks where people try to separate them while we have reports from their natural habitat that they live in large groups. Anyway, I agree that cohabitattion is advanced technique and in my opinion not for somebody who only sees their animal when it is feeding or cleaning time or housing them in bare and/or small enclosures.

Great video! I can understand that people have strong feelings about the wellbeing of the animals they care about but it can definitely get out of hand when people forget that there's more than one way to keep an animal happy and healthy. I know people who have kept ball pythons for as long as I've been alive and swear by heat mats, saying that a basking light is no good because they're nocturnal. But when I saw your videos about how you heat ball pythons I didn't stop watching your channel, I learned about a different way to allow ball pythons to thermoregulate. People want to have a list of the exact perfect steps to take care of an animal and just leave it at that, when really it's about understanding the needs of the animal and finding husbandry practices that meet those needs both on the species level and individual level.

This is really great information and it's too bad that cohabbing was immediately labeled as a cardinal sin because of whatever fiasco happened. I want to point out too, that years ago I had read about a zoo with an elderly antelope that had become too feeble be amongst the herd and he became very depressed. What cured him of his depression was a zookeeper going in to spar with him on a daily basis. So of course, you don't want to cohab animals that want to kill each other, that said, not all conflict is bad when you have animals that are, in fact, hard wired to have some conflict. That's why all your points of the different factors we don't even know about are so important. Dogma is the enemy of progress!

3:00 Cool, so they use their own version of "water closets" 🤓 Man oh man, I have learned a lot about leopard geckos in this video. 🤓 How they enjoy sharing nests, curious about what each other are looking at, enjoy chilling in the sun together, and more. 🦎 Because cohabitation is strongly recommended for their wellbeing, leopard geckos should no longer be classified as beginners species. By no means an expert species, but anybody that wants a leopard gecko, should know how to keep multiple geckos together before bringing them home. 🏡 The part about how they sometimes express curiosity over what another gecko looks at is by the far the most interesting thing I have learned about this species. 👀

This doesn’t fit my narrative so I’m choosing to ignore it. Sincerely, keepers who are experts after one lizard.

I have 2 leopard geckos that I rescued when I got them they were in a 10 gallon tank with one hide together I promptly separated them into their own 36x18x18 both geckos stopped eating I decided to see what would happen if I did the forbidin and added more hides and climbing in one of the enclosures and put them back together now 5 years latter these to females are thriving and though they have over 8 different hides they are always together JS maybe we should do what the animals need and want not what the industry standard is

What is the best substrate in a Lay Box???

Those outraged “know it all” channels has been pretty silent since this dropped 😂

Great video! Do we know if African Fat Tailed Geckos, and other similar species, are also social?

Thank you so much for this! Such amazing information and the mic drop at the end, lol. People need to understand that there is so much we don't know still! Being closed-minded gets you nowhere!

I was very disappointed in the creator who started the witch hunt. Your channel should have the kind of reach theirs does. Keep up the good work.

The Issue that is whether cohabitating has benefits for the geckos in captivity greater than the risks. So far no evidence is shown that there are benefits in captivity cohabitating over solo that match or are greater than the risk of stress, injury or death.

You just earned a subscriber. I've been watching the mud-slinging going on for the past few days and have waited to see if _anyone_ other than Adam is going to bring actual research into the discussion. I've found none until this video. Good on you. I've watched a few of your videos now - pertaining to several species - and can honestly say that you obviously do your due diligence on any given topic. The fact that you did this video right now shows a lot of integrity. I'm certain there are plenty of other keepers who have access to this information and who agree. However, they have been decidedly silent. I assume they're more concerned with protecting their bottom line than with helping to further this discussion. You're a good man.

Humans are a social species and we kill each other all the time!

This is very interesting! I heard about the first study a while back and would probably cohab geckos as a test if i had the money and space for it.

I'm really interesting in the nesting behavior. Does incubating more eggs together help with the viability of the eggs? I've heard people hypothesize that some snakes produce substances that hole there eggs together because having them touching help to keep temperature more stable, is that what is happening with leopard geckos when the nest together? Or possible having many babies hatch out at the same time helps in some other way.

I nearly shot you a message. "Look out, everyone is getting canceled". Quite a few channels are getting hammered on mistakes. I assume you have seen Adam Wickens. Cohabiting Leo's Garden state tortoise Chris. Box turtles fighting. Geeky gecko creations, unethical breeding Leo's, (Lemon frost gene). You have nothing to worry about but do be careful mate. I am hoping to pair Tokays. They are interacting though the glass of separate enclosures for now. Interesting to watch. I don't know if it works with Leos or Tokays. All bones react to UVA blacklight. Those close to the surface glow. You can see it in some Lizards, Chameleon skulls are a good example. The Namib sand gecko (Pachydactylus rangei) is glow in the dark under just UVA blacklight. Super cool 👍.

I love this video so much, I keep a species of gecko that are related to tokay geckos. I keep them in a trio 1 male to 2 females. I’ve noticed a lot more social interactions within one another compared to be alone as long there’s enough hiding spots,basking spots and food bowls they don’t fight for resources as they would in the wild! I keep them in a 2ftx2ftx4ft grow tent fully bioactive with a ton of cork,bamboo and very bushy plants.

I do think you make a point about there being an evolutionary advantage with social behaviors. However, I must refute that with the knowledge that leos live an average of 2 years in the wild while they can live to be 20+ in captivity.

team Adam

👏

Why not just go for à more easy species like Nephrurus ? Sometime you just have to let it go. Thx this vidéo was gold by the way ! Most of it I didnt know!❤ ❤❤

❤

This was wonderful, thanks for all the references. Will recommend to other keepers. There is no hard, fast rule on this. There are few lizards that can be kept in multi-girl groups, anoles, beardies, basilisks, many lacertas, etc. In others, only pairs work; female hydrosaurs will fight. In still others, groups work with lots of space: Tree skinks, Chalcides skinks, long-tailed lizards, scorpion geckos, a few agamids all work in multi male groups (but not beardies). Bert Langerwerf, who bred the clown on my shoulder, kept his tegus and AWDs in large multi-male colonies (of course, these enclosures were the size of backyards, not small rooms). This said, I am truly frustrated. I have been doing this for 40 years; why am I supposed to take seriously those who have been doing this for 2 years? As for leopard geckos, Tremper and deVosjoli really do know what they're talking about. Now, Adam's comic rap may not always work, but he did not do or say anything wrong. But if anything, he is a firm advocate for too much space. Let's lay off and do some real research before rendering strong opinions.

Ur not against doing research and thinking for urself congrats friend u got a new sub 👍

I absolutely loved the peer-reviewed research you provided. One can tell you really thought it through while creating this video. “Dogma is the enemy of progress,” was the only part that was a bit silly. Dogma, logically, would be like the declaration that a triangle has three sides. That wouldn’t hinder progress, but instead create parameters for progress. Dogma is good, so long as it’s true. I get what you’re saying, however. I can’t wait to see more of your content!

What would be a recommended vivarium size for.. oh lets say... 6 geckos?

DID YOU USE STICKS?!? Oh my god you cruel monster!

Another great one... but what about other eublepharidae? 😁

You make such interesting videos, but its frustrating how you only talk about the same 3 species🤣

Would u house that many in 422 ? yes or no ?

Minor correction. You mentioned "it wouldn't have evolved if there were no evolutionary advantage". It's actually the other way. It wouldn't have evolved if there were an evolutionary disadvantage. If it's neutral for survival, there's no reason why it could also evolve.

I'd like to chime in on this. I have 30 leopard geckos. I co hab most of my females usually 2 possibly 3. The only issue that I have had doing this granted I have had a pet reptile something my entire life mostly a dog and a few cats I'll be 40 this year. The only issue I have ever had was that I have had 5 females that just became "socially ockward" and we're just content on being alone. The strangest thing is that 4 of the 5 were very Brite Raptor LG's. The 5 one is a wild type but I thought she was a male based on the way she moved and how aggressively she ate. The only thing that I can add is that I was able to breed her with multiple males. Just to pile it on I pick males based on gentleness. I have to say that I'm very excited that someone actually shared this knowledge on KZfaq. Thank you so much. The LG community as a whole is very tight lipped. I wish this was not the case. I've found out that adding bee pollen to food greatly increases color and vigure for a couple weeks after that meal. Please continue with this type of content flowing. I will watch every one put out probably multiple times. How have I never seen a video from you before now. Oh well definitely subscribed now!!

There’s a huge difference between living in the wild in a huge area and cramming six into a small tank with no hope of escape Ala Wickens

Amazing video! I love how well you explained everything and had real research based information! 🤍🦎

@wickenswickedreptiles

Cant believe I just saw this now! Excellent video, great work!