Can oil-fired steam future-proof rail preservation?

Can oil-fired steam future-proof rail preservation? | North Yorkshire Moors Railway

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FMW Solutions - Railroad Contractor Services

3 ай бұрын

To help future-proof rail preservation, FMW Solutions has partnered with the North Yorkshire Moors Railway to convert a historic steam locomotive from burning coal to oil as part of the first full-size steam locomotive conversion project in the U.K. since the end of steam. Learn how this work will contribute to cost savings, labor savings, lessen greenhouse emissions, and streamline operations for an important heritage attraction using science, practices, and technology from the steam-era itself.
For more on this collaboration, click here: www.fmwsolutions.com/newsroom...
1:19 - The North Yorkshire Moors Railway
6:27 - The History of Oil-Fired Steam Locomotives
11:34 - Why Change from Coal to Oil?
16:43 - The Science of Oil-Firing Steam Locomotives
21:00 - What Locomotive Will Be Converted?
24:50 - Maintenance Impacts of Oil-Firing
32:40 - Learning How to Oil-Fire a Steam Locomotive
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U.S.-based railroad engineering and mechanical contractor FMW Solutions (“FMW”) is excited to announce that it will be working alongside the talented shop forces of the North Yorkshire Moors Railway (“NYMR”) to convert historic steam locomotive “Dame Vera Lynn” from coal to oil. This will be the first full-size steam locomotive oil conversion in the U.K. since the end of steam, and it is a crucial step forward in “future-proofing” the busiest heritage railway in the country.
“We are thrilled to work alongside the NYMR Engineering Department at Grosmont to convert War Department (“WD”) 2-10-0 No. 3672 as part of its upcoming overhaul,” explained FMW President Davidson Ward. “This work will be a trans-Atlantic effort, with key firing components being manufactured both at our workshop in Tennessee and by the NYMR forces at Grosmont. The final installation is anticipated to take place on the NYMR.”
In recent years, domestic sources for high-quality steam coal have dried up in the U.K., and changing climate patterns have caused the NYMR to stop running steam locomotives during the height of summer due to the acute risk of lighting lineside fires. The conversion of Dame Vera Lynn from coal to oil is a key step in the “future-proofing” of steam heritage in the U.K.
“We had a chance to join FMW leadership on the ‘Sugar Express’ steam operation in Florida and experience enhanced oil firing firsthand,” said NYMR Director of Engineer Paul “Piglet” Middleton. “There is no doubt in my mind that the proposed conversion will enable our railroad to adapt to a changing environment and preserve our ability to run steam in the coming decades.”
Ward was a headline speaker at the U.K. Heritage Railway Association conference last November in Newcastle. The presentation before a sold-out room was well received, and FMW is working with various preserved railways in the U.K. to discuss additional opportunities for oil conversion.
Also during his visit, Ward worked alongside engine crews to get a sense of the NYMR operation, firing and driving steam locomotives on their rugged line. With ruling grades over 2% and an 18-mile mainline, the NYMR is among the steepest and longest heritage railways in the U.K., boasting more than 300,000 passengers per year.
FMW and NYMR inked the deal at the close of 2023 and preliminary engineering work is expected to begin in early 2024. Fundraising for the restoration project is underway, and the timeline to see the locomotive returned to operation largely depends on public donations. To learn more about the opportunity, click here: www.nymr.co.uk/war-department...

Пікірлер: 131

@fmwsolutions 3 ай бұрын

@Hyce777 3 ай бұрын

Fantastic discussion all, thanks for sharing. There's a definite romance to the art of hand-bombing a coal burner, but oil is just making more and more sense these days. I'd rather see them run with oil than parked.

@rosewhite--- 3 ай бұрын

Energybuild Mining Limited applied to the Coal Authority, the UK Government agency responsible for mines, for a full underground license for Aberpergwm Colliery, near Glynneath, Neath Port Talbot, back in September 2020, and the application has now been approved. The mine, labelled by Energybuild Mining Limited as the "only source of high-grade anthracite in Western Europe," is now set to be extended so miners can excavate 40 million tonnes of anthracite, which is also known as hard coal, over the next 20 years - much to disapproval of the Welsh Government and local politicians.

@hughwoatmeigh6999 Ай бұрын

Hey Hyce - you hear about the torrefied biomass experiments from the Coalition for Sustainable Steam? Basically they are making something like a charcoal briquette out of wood products. Sorta like a giant wood pellet that's been roasted like a coffee bean.

@Toledo1940 3 ай бұрын

I'm an 83-year-old Yank who as a teenager spent many happy hours in engine terminals (New York Central, Baltimore and Ohio and other railroads) when coal-burning steam locomotives were in regular service. During my 5 visits to the Mother Country, I have ridden behind steam locomotives on heritage railways. Personally, I always loved being covered in cinders and soot; it made me feel that I was directly participating in a sacred enterprise. But if the survival of steam operation on either side of the Pond requires conversion from coal to a liquid fuel I am reluctantly in favor of the change.

@technoandrew 3 ай бұрын

This was a really interesting listen. Thanks to those involved in putting this together. It's great to hear how FMW is collaborating with the NYMR, and the various benefits oil firing can bring. I'm very much looking forward to this paying off and seeing Dame Vera Lynn in action.

@harri2626 3 ай бұрын

Good to learn how positive NYMR are about oil-burning. If successful, this should safeguard the future for many preserved lines struggling with costs and coal quality.

@JoshFosterBikesAndEngineering 2 ай бұрын

Having spent years as a teenager polishing brass and feeding copious amounts of coal, with a love of steam trains this is great to see! Heritage railways in the uk taking this all so seriously, so strategically, incredibly forward thinking. Very best of luck with the project!

@robertstopford1016 3 ай бұрын

Top marks to NYMR. Forward looking and progressive and realistic. Nor dwelling on the past.

@duck1946 3 ай бұрын

Excellent video, i wish you success with this development and look forward to future updates. I am 78yrs young now and started out as a 14yr old engine cleaner,then a passed cleaner then a full blown fireman a few yrs before steam was barred from the london area, bring it on NYMR !!!

@eliyahzayin5469 3 ай бұрын

It's exciting to see FMW going international. It'd be interesting to see you guys compare notes with DLM when it comes to oil firing.

@rosewhite--- 3 ай бұрын

I travelled on North Yorks last Friday and was amazed at how much highy combustible bracken and dead trees were alongside the tracks. The National Park is the same as US National Parks with minimum development or roads and no cleanup of downed trees so there were masses of potential fire sites.

@Tank245 3 ай бұрын

35:00 Is an excellent description of one of the benefits of oil. I'm a Fireman, but I have a screwed up back and pelvis after serving in the Army which makes shoveling difficult/impossible most days. Oil is what allowed me to become a fireman in the first place. Along with all the other benefits such as fire danger, cleaning, fuel saving etc. about 99% of the passengers that ride behind our steam locomotives dont actually care if the engine is coal or oil fired, and out of those people most assume they are coal burners anyways and aren't able to tell the difference.

@KPen3750 3 ай бұрын

I visited the NYMR for their 50th anniversary gala back in September 2023. The line, the locomotives and the work they do is amazing

@charlo90952 3 ай бұрын

I've seen a lot a black oily smoke from oil fired engine. I hope you can minimise or eliminate black smoke.

@davidellis279 3 ай бұрын

If coal can’t be purchased then oil is probably the only answer to the problem,it shouldn’t be too difficult to fit an oil tank in place of the coal space on the tender and carry out fire box modifications to burn oil.

@VintageRenewed 3 ай бұрын

I have always questioned for years why none of the of the British tourist lines had thought about oil when all the talk of coal shortages started So I’m really glad that it is finally starting to be looked at

@A-Lovely-Bit-of-Kit 3 ай бұрын

The Ffestiniog and the Keighley and Worth Valley have both tried oil conversions in the past. I think the Ffestiniog converted back to coal, but I don't know the outcome of the KWVR conversions. I think you are right that it's a good thing that it's being looked at again now, particularly to keep steam running on the NYMR during dry summer periods when fire risk is a serious concern.

@rodkennedy9800 3 ай бұрын

Possibly cost issues!!!

@A-Lovely-Bit-of-Kit 3 ай бұрын

@@rodkennedy9800 Yes, possibly. The world is a different place now of course.

@rosewhite--- 3 ай бұрын

No shortage of coal as UK imports millions of tons each year while sitting on billions of tons in the ground!

@steveh4335 3 ай бұрын

@@rosewhite--- but is it the right kind of coal coming in, if NYMR has seen coal costs triple in 12 months then that suggests not, you can't burn power station coal in steam engines. And where is the community that would whole heartedly support a new UK mine, deep or open cast, Fros y Fran the last new mine in Wales has only lasted about 15 years leaving issues with its tailings and other contamination.

@forrestrobin2712 3 ай бұрын

The only problem I have with oil burning is that it literally makes me sick. I spent a day on the foot plate of an oil burner in Australia, I was fine during the day, but when I got home in the evening I was sick as a (very sick) dog…

@mbak7801 3 ай бұрын

Very exciting idea but... Is it possible to put eggs and bacon on a shovel and use the fire box to cook it? Will it end up tasting oily ?

@LordoftheBadgers 3 ай бұрын

Fascinating. Thanks guys what a great video!

@gerilarryogle970 3 ай бұрын

Thank you very much. This is an amazing video about converison of all coal firre locomotives in US and UK. As a 7 1/2 gauge 1/8 scale steam modeler this is an amazing discussion of what is going on in UK to convert steam heritage railroads. Did not realize the impact of "global warming" on the closure of coal in UK. This is catastrauphic to British Rail History.

@trainsimulatordriver 3 ай бұрын

We converted one of our engines at Puff several years ago and it's a significant change. Some crews love it some not. Certainly a very different firing experience.

@hughwoatmeigh6999 Ай бұрын

The Coalition for Sustainable Steam in the US has been researching torrefied biomass. (Basically heating giant wood pellets into something like grill charcoal.) Their test results have been encouraging. You fire it similar to coal, but it's basically burning waste wood products.

@willknipe9491 3 ай бұрын

Notable examples of oil fired steam locomotives these days. Include UP 4014. SP GS4 4449. And the D&RGW. 493.

@MrAsBBB 3 ай бұрын

I’ve been thinking about this for years. The end game is ground source heat, or thermal but let’s start with oil. We need to keep NYMR keep going as long as we can keep the others going. Great video . 20:34

@richardharrold9736 3 ай бұрын

Heat pumps are deeply inefficient, and how do you get that energy into a moving locomotive? The only way you could make any use of that would be to fill the locomotive with hot water and use a feed pump rather than injectors to fill the boiler. But you still need to fire the boiler...

@AussiePom 6 күн бұрын

The Swiss have developed a light oil burner (diesel) for steam engines. Unlike the swirling burner for heavy oil the diesel burner looks like a huge gas cook top with four large burners in a square pattern with a small light up burner in the middle. The Puffing Billy Railway in Victoria Australia has converted one of their 2-6-2 tank engines 14A to this new Swiss system and it's coupled with a Lemphor exhaust previously fitted to a coal burning loco 6A. They had 14A fitted because they run through a very dry forest and every train had to be followed by a water cart train to put out any spot fires on dry days. The system fitted to 14A is not permanent and the loco can be converted back to being a coal burner if the railway so desires. Even when working hard up 1 in 30 grades there's no black smoke at all from 14A just a slight haze from the chimney. For the PBR it made good sense for they also have diesel locos which haul trains on total fire ban days so there was no need to find a new supplier for oil. Also there's no cost that there is in getting rid of the coal ash. Diesel is very uniform in quality unlike coal which can vary wildly from high grade steaming coal to very low grades of coal.

@johnarnehansen9574 3 ай бұрын

I am for change too!.. We need more oil-burners in any steam locomotive boiler and add improved smoke systems and increase superheat and so on!

@andreartymiuk 3 ай бұрын

The Festiniog railway converted its locos to Oil firing years ago, then subsequently abandoned this and after a decade converted them back to coal due to the increasing cost of oil. So I'm not convinced why oil firing is seen as a way forward for rail preservation.

@kosmostimber1174 3 ай бұрын

The Ffestiniog Railway isn’t the only railroad in the world that used oil firing, and even though their attempt years ago didn’t pan out, who’s to say that it won’t work out now?

@roadie4360 3 ай бұрын

And now coal prices are skyrocketing.

@tidaljunk 3 ай бұрын

Because it doesn't have to be heavy oil. It can also be vegetable oil, which is seen as "sustainable".

@dkbmaestrorules 2 ай бұрын

The FR used oil for a lot longer than a decade...more like 4 decades.

@steven.ghodgson765 2 ай бұрын

Great video and good luck to the NYMR. I loved the odd puzzlwd look on the US guys trying hard to follow Piglets Yorkshire accent ? As a lad from Darlington where it all started in 1825 our area is steeped into the history and a lot is going on at the moment getting ready for the 200th aniversary of the Stockton & Darlington Railway and building new locomotives.

@user-vn8so9rf3d 3 ай бұрын

R766 in NSW Australia was gegauged from 5' to 4' 8 1/2" to run on NSW track. It was also converted to oil fuel. This was done so that loco could keep mainline speeds without being sidelined if steam was low. Loco 5917 remains coal fired along with other NSW heritage locos. Good coal still available in NSW. Common here to include a diesel in the consist to ease coal consumption and to provide dynamic braking that eases wear on loco brakes.

@stillshakin2125 3 ай бұрын

I think i would prefer the smell of coal smoke to oil but i appreciate the time /cost savings. Incidentally i wonder if the new rules on mk1 carriage doors affect NYMR?

@Steven_Rowe 3 ай бұрын

The fireman must love it, no more shovelling tons of coal and I believe any sort of oil can be used including used cooking oil.

@bikerguychris33 3 ай бұрын

Absolutely fascinating to me as a 33 year old British Steam Enthusiast 😁🚂 One thing I am going to miss with oil fired Steam locomotives is that gorgeous smell of coal smoke, oil and water vapour mixed, there's nothing else like it. I read in the news that Bio Coal was being developed and tested and had been successfully used in one heritage railways locomotive, and I believe it preserves the classic steam smell that many Steam enthusiasts like myself love, could Bio Coal also be an alternative to traditional fossil coal and oil firing? Although oil firing makes sense as an alternative if coal is hard to find and is getting crazy expensive, the world only has 47 years of oil left, so what's going to happen once the world runs out of oil? Meanwhile it is estimated that the world has 133 years worth of coal left, yet all our coal mines have closed and heritage railways are now forced to import coal and also look for alternatives as coal becomes harder to find and more expensive, doesn't make sense to me. I'm really glad that alternative fuels are being explored so that our absolutely stunning Steam Locomotives can keep running, hopefully forever, sacrificing the steam smell with oil firing will be sad but a small price to pay it if it keeps them running, potentially forever.

@Stooltoad5017 3 ай бұрын

A lot of people aren’t going to like this.. Anywho, sadly this hasn’t been a wholly uncommon in the US. The D&S just had its last run with its last coal burner. Oil burning locomotives weren’t uncommon historically (my pfp is a Santa Fe oil burner), and I personally don’t have a problem with conversation to oil. People will get absolutely heated about though. I imagine it is even more contentious in Britain.

@andyash5675 3 ай бұрын

I have no problem with an engine getting its heat from oil, but probably the most significant thing about a British preserved railway after the visual impact is the smell. I've no desire to be choking on intense coal fumes, but I still love the smell of coal smoke, oil and water vapour all mixed together. It's something quite special and it comes from nowhere else. I find the oil smoke quite unpleasant, like a car exhaust - noxious. If coal is banned then I'd say gas firing is a better modern choice, i.e. LPG or compressed natural gas. It's clean and it doesn't smell horrible.

@bikerguychris33 3 ай бұрын

@@andyash5675Like yourself I love the smell of a coal smoke, oil and water vapour mixed together, there's nothing else like it, I'd bottle that smell up if I could, I sure will miss it once it's gone. I have also read that Bio Coal was being developed and was actually being tested and had been successful, and the bio coal actually preserves the classic steam smell too, so hopefully that can be another solution as well as oil firing 🤞🏻 As a Steam Enthusiast myself, If the choice was Steam locomotives disappearing completely or them keeping on running by using oil firing and sacrificing the classic steam smell, I'd rather see them oil fired and them kept running forever. When we went on the Dartmouth steam railway last year, I had my head out the window for the whole journey from Paignton to Kingswear, I was savouring that Beautiful coal smoke smell and watching the mechanics of the engine, as well as enjoying the scenery along the way too.

@roygardiner2229 3 ай бұрын

That was absolutely fascinating. Thank you! I do hope it all works out successfully. Clearly there will be a steep learning curve for the English side and that means there is scope for misunderstanding and errors.

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

You avoid the standby losses you get with diesels and coal. Save the coal for tiddlers the size of a Stroudley Terrier

@jay600katana 3 ай бұрын

It makes sense to burn oil simply for ease of operation, one example is any where you can fit a truck in you can fuel your locomotive. I'm looking at this from being a guest on a diesel powered railroad, the less special treatment you need the better and starting brush fires isn't positive P.R for the host railroad. Either way I'm just a man sitting in front a computer and you lucky bastards are out there doing this stuff. Great video's FMW, keep'em coming and cheers from the great white north eh.

@KiRiTO72987 3 ай бұрын

I assume it also has benefits in regards to wear since oil burners can heat the firebox more evenly than coal

@TechOne7671 3 ай бұрын

I have experience of pressure jet burners fitted to oil fired boilers, curious to see the type of burner used on this. Disappointed there was now drawings or diagrams😂. It’s still a steam engine regardless of the fuel type, not a coal engine!! Good forward thinking to keep the show on the road or rails rather. With that attitude you could be fitting and electric boiler and a tender full of batteries in 20 years time. All the best.

@rodkennedy9800 3 ай бұрын

Think there’s a parallel with ships that started out coal fired but transitioned to oil fired a while back (know it’s not always the same oil but principals similar).

@cms9902 3 ай бұрын

Sounds like Piglet is doing a sales for pitch for Chris. Bless.

@geoffcollier8736 3 ай бұрын

Not a good idea. As another contributor has said at the very least Australia has vast amounts of coal in opencast mines they are selling to China. A shipload to the uk would last a very long time. We still have a lot of coal in the uk. as well of course, still underground although it is no longer”green” to mine it!

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

Given the wear and tear caused from the use of coal, and the time needed to restore historic locomotives, there is a lot to be said for cutting the use of coal to special occasions only.

@peterflitcroft9756 3 ай бұрын

It’s a WW2 austerity loco built for the army. They were designed to burn oil when required.

@stuartlast8156 3 ай бұрын

This country (uk) is looking for a way around the coal problem, India is now going to mine an extra 9 million tons of coal per year to keep their industry going as their economy/output grows, seems absurd !!

@chilllytube 3 ай бұрын

It is the North York Moors Railway.

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

Will the upgrade include the Lempor or other modern exhaust system, same as the Kriegslok 52-8055? This should increase efficiency to 12% and push up the power by 20%. Reduction in wear and tear due to less grit and corrosive gas. The Swiss found the new oil burners use less fuel than thir diesels for the same work. Hopefully this will eventually lead to some use on the national system eg infrastructure trains.

@InventorZahran 3 ай бұрын

That would be epic if some diesels got replaced with oil-fired steamers!

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

@@InventorZahran I heard that the Brienz-Rothorn mountain railway set their diesels aside.

@Meengineer100 3 ай бұрын

@@InventorZahran Roger Waller wrote a paper on the subject called "Modern Steam - An Economic and Environmental Alternative to Diesel Traction". There are copies of the paper online and it is a very interesting read.

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

@@Meengineer100 He gave a talk to IMechE about 20 years ago. He is good on exhaust systems as he worked with Porta and Wardale. He hires out a loco to SBB for use on infrastructure trains, which brings in useful revenue. The same could probably be done with suitable locos for hire to Network Rail - one the trains are at the site, they sit there doing nothing until the end of the shift. Unfortunately, 2-10-0 types with flangeless wheels are not allowed on the national system, so the loco would have to be a 2-8-0 or 4-6-0.

@Meengineer100 3 ай бұрын

@@physiocrat7143 I hadn't heard about the hiring of locos to SBB before, interesting. I read that Waller carried out the indicating on the Red Devil which must have been a great experience! Hoping he can make it to this year's Advanced Steam Traction Trust conference.

@ianrouse3032 29 күн бұрын

The amount of coal preserved engines use isn't great surely if they all got together and bought in bulk and had a central depot where they could draw their fuel. It would be more cost effective. The engines that run on the main line there is more of a case for oil fired .

@godlugner5327 3 ай бұрын

14:18 subtle calling the competition "lumpy" 😂😂 but he's right those two are very capable of reflection, for a newer "fixated" generation having a tender full of "lumps" would destroy any good opinion they had from a single fixation they don't understand.

@Drockthe3rd 3 ай бұрын

If oil conversion is desired on the NYMR, the WD Austerity would be a good candidate (given that is was repatriated from Greece in the 1980s)

@kevanhubbard9673 3 ай бұрын

You'd have to modify them to switch from coal to oil but i don't see what options there are as coal is increasingly hard to aquire.More people are interested in vintage diesel now,and electric but obviously the NYMR can't run them!,so there is probably less steam needed.

@andrewdarley8988 3 ай бұрын

Doesn't look like any of you are old enough to remember British railways in the steam days and the glorious smell of smoke and tar that the assailed you when you came out of the underground into a London Terminus - particularly Paddington from the western region locomotives using Welsh Steam coal. It may be inevitable but I for one would seriously regret exchanging that smell for Heathrow Airport. And please don't judge us by American standards - authenticity has never mattered much to them. Anyway their locomotives belched out black smoke even when coal fired.

@JAMESMANHUNT9 3 ай бұрын

From my point of view if u have a oil fired loco and it runs low on water in the boiler you can kill the fire by shutting off the oil

@robertdshannon5155 3 ай бұрын

Paul: Have you considered the use of anthracite coal? The Reading Blue Mountain & Northern which has two steam loco's and use anthracite which has much less clag. You should Google Phoebe Snow.

@dkbmaestrorules 2 ай бұрын

From where? The problem is that there are no source of it at a reasonable price.

@johnkeepin7527 3 ай бұрын

Nothing new under the Sun, re converting established coal fired locomotives to using oil as a fuel. E.g. just before nationalisation, the GWR had a pop at it, if you look for ‘GWR oil-fired locomotives’. However, it fell foul of the UK Treasury in 1948, due to the shortage of foreign currency, & exchange rates at the time, so the Western Region had to revert to traditional coal. Around the same period, a large slice of the SNCF class 141R fleet went the other way, due to difficulties in the availability of suitable coal domestically, being converted to heavy fuel oil. They could produce a lot of black smoke from time to time - especially when the cleaning technique was used en route, using sand as a cleaning agent.

@42Porter 3 ай бұрын

I wonder if we may one day have the technology to use electric heating elements in steam locomotives. I can’t imagine it being doable any time soon without drawing power from overhead cables which has been done before and was deemed too expensive during the steam age.

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

That ends up with double the thermodynamic losses.

@slashmacleod 3 ай бұрын

So the important thing to understand here is that steam locomotives, whether coal, oil, or wood, all were a part of a larger industry. All steam locomotives everywhere currently in existence are but a FRACTION of the fleet of a current large railroad. Climate change isn't a product of just the tools, but the corporate practices that value money over people's lives or the health of our only home. TL;DR holding large industries accountable and forcing them to curb their pollution will allow steam locomotives to remain, regardless of fuel type.

@InventorZahran 3 ай бұрын

If all the commercial railways of the world electrified their entire networks and powered them with 100% renewable energy, a few preserved steam engines wouldn't make any meaningful impact on the global climate. Even then, it's really the mines, factories, and dirty-fueled power stations that contribute the most pollution; railways are already far better than trucks or airplanes. Industrial polluters have always been the biggest problem, but they (and the politicians they donate to) love to blame it on individual civilians!

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

In the overall scheme of things, rail transport produces little CO2. Embodied energy in infrastructure and rolling stock is a substantial proportion of the total. Rolling stock should have a 60 year life; if it runs for only 25 years that is a major loss.

@richardswain3530 3 ай бұрын

While coal firing is preferable to get around the high cost of coal at present if it means converting to oil keeps locomotives running on the mainline then surely this should be investigated to preserve the enjoyment for all

@matt34028 3 ай бұрын

Can you oil fire with a Copper Firebox?

@manga12 Ай бұрын

If I might though, we have more coal then Oil, so how much longer would it last, I know mines are closing and its not the best for the environment and its a hard way of life and dangerous for those that have to mine it but wont we run out of oil before coal? Unless we use non petrolem oils, like plant or veggie oils? I belive they do run an engine in the grand canyon off veggie oil? I am listening a bit though to experts and leaders here, its important for the future of living history

@annajeannettedixon2453 3 ай бұрын

has a member of the NYMR And a Marine engineer I am all up for this and I bleave a new build would benafit the NYMR that uses to run no that line bavk in there hight days of steam Like a Class A8 tanks or the D20 or B16 raven the class A8 were well loved by crews and a A8 oil fired will be good and its will be special in this area And I just happen to have the design blue prints

@Edsbar 3 ай бұрын

Have you thought about talking about oil firing to the Ffestiniog Railway?

@kelvinwalmsley 3 ай бұрын

Anything burnable has been used in steam loco's . Esholt sewerage works (Bradford England) had "Nellie" burning scum off the top of the stuff. I'm not sure visitors would tolerate the smell !

@smitajky 3 ай бұрын

Oil was supposed to run out by the year 2000. That hasn't happened but oil is still under threat. At the moment LNG is the fossil fuel with the greatest future proofing. I wonder how well such a conversion would go. Bearing in mind that it is more than 70 years since converting our steam engines to oil firing was the latest technology.

@gerilarryogle970 3 ай бұрын

My experience in modeling scale 1/8 inch to the foot steam locomotives is that after converting from coal to oil fired fire boxes that the only chalange to making the burner fire with propane or natural gas is were to move the oil tank to another car folowing the tender to hold the bottle of gas. The burner of propane fuel can be added with the oild burner and either can be run. Really small change. Propane and oil heat to boil water are very close in thermal design and operation. The propane gives a few less BTUs. When you install a burner tubes in an area that was design for a coal fire box there is a hole lot of empty space. Both propane and oil burn at a higher BTU rate than coal or wood or paper. All that the science requires is something to boil water. As they discussed the fireman's job is changed from physical muscle to the real exciting challage of how to correctly produce steam in the boiler so that the engineer or driver can get the train up the hill. The first wood boiler steam locomotives were not very efficeint. Oil is great.

@donwright3427 3 ай бұрын

If the tecnollogy existed for a safe modular nuclear reactor in the tender that would give limitless energy,but thats never going to be reality.

@charly-s 3 ай бұрын

The decision between electricity and diesel or steam is easy. To service a steam engine after ten years in Germany you must open the steam boiler and control all boiler tubes for wasting. Mostly they are replaced by removing all over the defective tubes and weld in new pipes, boring and aligning all boreholes included. The Locomotive factory in Meiningen is suffering for orders and their headcount is constantly reducing. It’s a question of time, till the factory will close. But England and America because of coal and oil abundance overslept the electrification era and a lot of track ways went closed and forgotten. Here in🇨🇭we have the Stadler and they are delivering the all over best train compositions and🇨🇭is totally electrificated with abt 30‘000km railway tracks in two different gauges. And our trains are running from Zurich to Munich in 3.31 hours. And Diesel? Think about the environmental burden and the oil prices and you find the answers by yourself …

@keithtanner2806 3 ай бұрын

Oil!!!! Ye Gids!🤬

@paulnicholson1906 3 ай бұрын

Most people wouldn’t know the difference between diesel and steam anyway.

@duncancampbell9490 3 ай бұрын

The smell alone is obviously way different....

@paulnicholson1906 3 ай бұрын

@@duncancampbell9490 my comment was in response to them saying the future passengers won’t have the same connection to steam as the previous generation. In the USA steam was eliminated about 10 years before it was in the UK and most people here never actually saw them back in the day and most riders on tourist railroads really don’t appreciate the locomotive much. The ones that do are rail fans and they usually take photos and don’t buy tickets. Sad but true. The smell is different if they are burning coal more than heating oil.

@shingshongshamalama 3 ай бұрын

CNG-fired boilers. Done.

@InventorZahran 3 ай бұрын

That's the next logical step. Oil is good but gas is even better!

@dh2032 3 ай бұрын

well the called steam engines, not coal engines 🙂as long it still making steam, why not take it all the way, its a big tank water being heated, why not go electric, put a electric heating element in the boil heat tank, and would have one of the greenest steam trains going? your could electric generator or batteries in the coal tender, and when main network line hooking electric third line, or overhead wire, if permitted, like modern train does, may charge the batteries too, would retro fitting electric to the rest on the train set, a lot easier if desired?

@AlRoderick 3 ай бұрын

That's actually been done before, Switzerland converted a couple of steam locomotives to run on overhead line electrification during world war II when they were cut off from their coal imports but still had access to all of their abundant hydropower.

@eliyahzayin5469 3 ай бұрын

Some locomotives like Tornado already have a generator and battery set in the tender to power auxiliary electric systems and there are electric warming systems to help with start up. I'm not convinced a steam locomotive powered by the grid would be necessarily greener, though. On top of the locomotive's efficiency, you have to deal with transmission losses, which might lead to more coal being burned at the power plant than if you put it into the locomotive firebox. You pretty much have to ensure that you're power is coal free. (In the Swiss case they had a surplus of hydropower)

@mbak7801 3 ай бұрын

@@eliyahzayin5469 I do not think grid power is feasible with overhead lines. Though the grid by November will be 100% coal free for ever and there is often a huge excess capacity of green energy available. Best to leave the grid for homes and industry.

@edmundcarew7235 3 ай бұрын

I have travelled on NYMR and enjoyed it, but this is a misstep. There is no shortage of coal. I acknowledge Australia is many thousands of kilometres away but we have many, many years of both thermal coal and met (steelmaking) coal reserves left. The 35,000 tonnes of coal consumed annually by UK heritage railways would only fill part of a the total holds of a typical bulk ship. Newcastle (NSW) alone exports almost 200 millions of coal per annum. There's at least one mine in the Hunter Valley, New South Wales that has coal suitable for steam locos. Big deal that this will 'reduce emissions'. There's no so-called Marxist 'climate emergency. The amount of emissions produced by the whole heritage railway operations worldwide is tiny. In contrast, mainland China and other Asian nations continue to build new coal-fired power stations. HELE technology is impressive. Oil is shooting up in price: this may or may not be temporary. What a waste of money for the NYMR to do this.

@fmwsolutions 3 ай бұрын

There is so much more to this than emissions, so we hope you have time to listen to the impacts on maintenance and labor that are detailed in the video. Traditional oil is also just one liquid fuel mentioned in the process as well.

@miniaturesteamnick 3 ай бұрын

As you say, the whole UK heritage industry could not fill a single ship per year from Australia. In that case, shipping would not be economical, unless someone was able to order a single shipload and stockpile it for a few years at a time.

@edmundcarew7235 3 ай бұрын

@@miniaturesteamnick What the Heritage Rail association could so is place an order that filled part of a bulk ship's holds, and combine it with coal in the other holds that may be destined for Europe. Historically Australia hasn't sold much coal to Europe (Russia etc. closer) but in the last couple of years, some has travelled the long distance). The price of coal through coal merchants in the UK has also decreased recently I gather: this is typically from multiple sources.

@wilhelmvonn9619 3 ай бұрын

Practical, but smells wrong.

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

They could put a few bits of coal in a thurible and walk up and down station platforms.

@ivenireland8270 3 ай бұрын

Why not go all out and stick an electric motor in the boiler casing, fill the tender with batteris job done. No more 10 year boiler certificate, no more filling up with water, no more worries about causing fires in the summer.Preservation means just that, preserving as is.The whole point of heritage lines is for future generations can experiece what it was like at a certain time in history.

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

You could shrink the engines down to run on a track less than 10 mm gauge.

@TheBlueTruckTTTE 3 ай бұрын

What a whiny fuck you are, if the option is between not having an engine running and having it running with oil I know what I'm picking, and it's the option that lets future generations actually experience an engine at all

@petergardner2334 3 ай бұрын

THERE NOTHING WRONG WITH COAL OR OIL GREENHOUSE EMISSION ARE NEGLIGIBLE IN THE CASE OF STEAM ENGINES

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

Coal causes a lot of damage to the boiler and works, due to ash and dust. Trailing axleboxes on 4-6-0 types get a lot more wear than the others. Coal should be restricted to occasional use on demonstration locomotives.

@Nick-zp3ub 3 ай бұрын

It’s a stupid idea. Oil will become scarcer as the supply starts to run out. Why not convert coal burning locomotives to run on wood or charcoal from sustainable forests?

@physiocrat7143 3 ай бұрын

You can but the energy content is low and it gives rise to sparks.

@WhyAyeMann 3 ай бұрын

as physiocrat mentioned, the energy density of that type of fuel is low and you'd need a small forest for an operating season.

@MrToradragon 3 ай бұрын

@@physiocrat7143 Torrefied biomass should have somehow reasonable energy density, roughly same as brown coal. but that could perhaps be problem for smaller locomotives.

@brickleyyard4966 3 ай бұрын

No oil is not the way and if thay go oil I whont be going there again

@chooch1764 Ай бұрын

Lol

@Austriantrainguy 3 ай бұрын

Sorry but I would not be able to enjoy an oilfired loco, could just be a thing of trainculture ´cause we never had oil fiered engines

@steamgent4592 3 ай бұрын

I’m sick of this anti coal movement and conversion to oil! 100% against it and if you do it I’m not visiting your railway anymore. Not riding behind a diesel water cooker!

@chooch1764 Ай бұрын

Lol

@chooch1764 Ай бұрын

So you don’t believe in harming the environment with embers and ashes? Coal won’t be around forever, so let’s be real here.

@steamgent4592 Ай бұрын

@@chooch1764 coal ash doesn’t hurt anything in fact it makes the garden grow very nicely. Excellent fertilizer. The coal smoke even makes plants grow larger. They love the carbon they need to grow.

@chooch1764 Ай бұрын

@@steamgent4592 I’m sorry but that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The summers are getting dryer in certain areas, which increase the risk of wildfires. Do you seriously not believe in that? 😳

@spankflaps1365 3 ай бұрын

Other problems with coal for British steamers: - Russian sanctions stopped cheap Russian coal imports - Leaving the EU tripled coal and electricity prices - British locos are like F1 cars, they will only run on high grade fuel. When Flying Scotsman went to USA in 1970 it struggled to steam on American coal, so the owner had to ship in Welsh coal, for it to continue touring. As Piglet said, the modern low grade smokeless coal is not man enough for NYMR locos, and it makes too much mess. Oil conversions are the solution to prevent a second steam extinction event.