Best way to stop the Kingsmove is to use your dominant feet to kick your opponent square in the nuts.

Hard to police the bone lock. Centimeters matter there, and it's hard for refs to judge a specific angle in the middle of a match.

Shoulder below pad in losing position is what makes most people hate the Kings move. If refs would call fouls properly in that situation it would squash the drama around Kings move.

Thanks for this. I agree that use of a bone lock ought to be seen as a foul. Devon's desperation move against John was totally relying on his bone lock. John had good reason to be optimistic about his strength, but pulling a bone-locked 127kg Devon, with his foot hooked around the table leg and all his weight behind him to the pin was possibly impossible for anyone. Devon still had more stamina, so he legitimately won the supermatch, but probably not as a shutout stake. The move needs reviewed.

great in depth analysis, thank you, legends, I almost feel like a professor of arwmrestling theory thanks to you

Thanks for the tips guys! Love all your videos. Stay strong

Really phenomenal video with a lot of different examples. Great work y'all!

Great information! Thanks for your hard work, Rolley and Janis! 😉🙏🏼 Merry Christmas to the both of you! 💪🎄🎅💚

Wow! Great explanation, guys. Thank you very much.

This is not directed to you. It does not take an arm wrestling expert to see when someone is just using their bone structure to rest. Their entire body pops up when they are pinned. No matter how often the experts try to educate people about the kings move, nothing will change the fact that average men have been arm wrestling for thousands of years and they have never tolerated someone using their whole body to try to win like that. It’s the equivalent of using both arms to try to win in the eyes of most people. Nothing will ever change what everyone can clearly see with their eyes. Those that rebuttal with rule claims should consider what people are actually talking about. You can start a league right now (if you have the money) and have a rule in it where you can use two hands to pull if your eyes are green. That would be an actual rule people would have to follow if they wanted to win your prize. Rules were created by people. They are not definitions. What some people are doing when criticizing the kings move is trying to more accurately define what it means to arm wrestle someone vs what you are allowed to do as per the rules. There is a reason why professional fighters lose respect from the public when they milk an accidental foul to get a win. Rules are, by nature, intended to be fair and not meant to be exploited.

Love you Ray! Especially drunk Ray !

Such a good session! This type of explanation has been a long time coming!

Great video! Very knowledgeable two gentlemen

When MMA first started getting popular I'd hear lots of people complaining about how grappling and joint locks were cheating, boring and against the spirit of combat sports. I remember people complaining about having to watch a cuddling match. Over time well rounded fighters learned how to counter the strengths of grappling and spectators learned to appreciate the technique, play and counterplay of grappling. I feel like the kings move is similar for arm wrestling. One trick pony wrestlers will get beat while true champions will adapt their technique to counter. Ex. Devon's absolute domination over Michael KotT1. Devon had the tools to make Michael Todds king move a non-factor. In 5 years, not knowing how to counter a king's move will be no different than a great striker thinking he can be successful in MMA without ground defense.

As always, best armwrestling content there on YT. Bar none. Thank you!

It wasn't super clear how to "beat" the kings move, so let me try and summarize. Basically you should try and stay center table and climb up on the hand. Once you feel you have enough height, try and pin. Don't waste your energy trying to pin without the hand control.

The best explanation ever!

Amazing video lots of knowledge in that 20 minutes tbh.

THank you so much ,, your tips are extremely extremely helpful 👌🙏❤️

Very informative video by the 2 professors.

Both are great professors !

great vid guys

Good morning boys love the videos

Janis his always good to listen, what a legend..!

Loved Gashevski's swallowing of the opponent's hand with his open toproll technique, fascinating to watch.

This is why I've taken an interest in arm wrestling and it has held my attention. It is a deceptively deep sport. It's exciting to watch, but there is also a lot to digest and analyze. It is explosive, but also strategic, like a good battle should be.

If you watch Michael Todd's matches pretty closely, It's pretty obvious when his Kings move works his arm angle is about an inch above his bone lock. Every time someone hits his bone lock, he gives up really quickly. It's gotta be too painful to hold for more than a few seconds.

Thank you very much❤️

Great insight!

Well said guys EASY fix. Competitors must hold out their arm for ref. The more you can straighten your arm, the more room you have to not be fouled. Armwrestling is a display of both STRENGTH and SKILL, bone lock is NEITHER 💪

Love u guys 💪

amazing video

I have my first super match in Jan vs. a kings mover. Listening closely to this video

Awesome content 😉

Awsome video........ And I am very impressed by your English

Great video suggestion Mr Neil Pickup 😊

explain how someone’s scar tissue is “bone lock.” Kings move is basically them using a strap and pronation like a wrist wrench works. The only way seems to stay high and not lose your wrist…which is almost impossible once they drop with that wrist wrench type of twist.

13:14 look to the left at Rob vigeant's face 😂😂😂😂😂 it's like he's saying man I can't watch, something is gonna break

Excellent

Thank you 🙏

My biggest issue is the use of the back of the elbow pad as a fulcrum on the arm itself, not the elbow. If their elbow starts to lift as they fulcrum off the back of the pad, it should be a foul. It’s an elbow pad, not an arm pad.

If someone pulls a king's move against you in the strap, you can pull your own king's move and play a game of endurance until you gain an advantage in your hand position. Then you can rise up in full stance, and hit a quick press.

I personality have zero problem with the KM since I'm a flop presser 😂😂

12:22 What I noticed that Pushkar did was grab Michaels thumb and when he pressed it over pronated Michael and maybe disengaged his Kingsmove. Jerry's hand usually is open and so far below Michael cannot get full control on Jerry's pronation.

17:00 They hold at the begining and use muscles when the opponent still strong and fresh when the opponent is tired they can relax and depend only on the bone lock

Guys I love your content, I have a huge question I'll be glad if you answer: how can I improve my ability to keep my hand while I'm going to the side? Expecially on the start.

New arm wrestling fan here. Couldn't you just choose to _not_ engage with them when they pull a King's Move? It's a defensive position, right? They can't pin you with it, they have to get up and change to an offensive position in order to pin, no? So can't you just "wait" or be in a "neutral" position instead of expending so much energy trying to pin them when they're in a King's Move? Can't you be like, "Either get up from the King's Move, or we'll be standing here all day doing nothing."? Or am I misunderstanding the King's Move?

Спасибо. Классный контент.

Amazing

A special video for Larry Wheels! So generous of you guys!

Worst thing to do against a Kingsmove is keep going for a pin with sidepressure and pure force. It forces the opponent to use their advantage and snowball it to a point where you can not be beaten anymore. It therefore HARD counters non dynamic pure force sidepressure or inside based armwrestlers

The best way was how devon did it, to negate the hand so he cant go to his kings move

Imagine if Levan decides to troll Devon in their future match and pull a kings move on him.

Hey ray one question, can you train forearms everyday for arm wrestling or should I do it every other day?

What do you think about Ryan Bowens crazy inside technique against the kings move? It starts 6 minutes in kzfaq.info/get/bejne/msWTpNVj2Z3ec6M.html

Suggestion maybe make a top 10 right hand armwrestlers in the world list together and explain your picks

I had commented the same thing on Larry's video, I felt he showed noob skills in his match with Brandon, instead of holding and burning up his biceps he should have transitioned to the press. The press is the best way to beat the King's move and not burn yourself out in the process.

Hello Ray and Janis / GREAT VID content and I congratulate you for this video. ANTHONY / CAN can deal with King' s move, because they know Crazy Georges/ Your vid is very useful for European amrwrestlers. Personnally, I agree with Engin T that it is a "desperate" move . Greetings and Merry Christmas _ / Frederic from Belgium

Idk why people hate on it soo much. All this move did was make the game more advanced.

I love the King's move.

I feel like the kings move ruins so many matches, many people don't want to watch the sport when this is allowed especially when shoulders below the table. Then it's not even arm wrestling anymore.

Are there any videos of you guys beating a kings move?

Do you sell a course? I'm new to armwrestling I want to know what to workout and the moves

Can you guys do videos like this showing us hook and press? Much love from Ohio!!

Engin never referred to "the kings" move as "desperation" move, and I think he explained himself very clearly in his videos. I do agree that there is a thin line between these two as he ellaborates, but surely there is a distinction between the famous kings move and the one that he called desperation move in his mind.

LOVE you guys… hopefully meet you sometime soon… any plans visiting Los Angeles anytime soon? ^_^

I agree with janis

that guy doing the kings move on you at 14:10 was bullshit it just shouldn't be allowed

Genadi is getting his translator Veronica Mchedlishvili to take notes as we speak. Good luck Genadi

I loved how you included Jerry coderette match. but why you didn't discuss Michael match with Devon. what happened there. how Devon won against king move

That’s my idol right there. The Jedi!

greatt!!

Love the kings move. Works great on some ppl

The moment we all cheered for was when John was taunting shouting where you going buddy and then pushed through the kings move by mr under the tbale todd.

Alright check this out, the last match Devon had with John he did a open top roll kings move but both head and shoulder above the table. This is good and in my opinion not a “cheat” move. Now Todd’s under the table bone chip action is and should be illegal. His elbow is rarely on the pad and his career would be over if not for the queens move

I'm curious, could you just not power through and intentionally break the bone? I've never experienced vs. anyone with a bone lock (though I used to use something similar to troll people in high school -- my elbow is double jointed and I can pronate nearly 360 degrees), but I would think that surely you could just set your sights on an intentional snap. I personally don't see anything wrong with intentionally breaking someone's arm if they go into a break arm position; competition is competition, after all. But like I said, never experienced anything like it in person. Is the bone just so calcified with bone spurs, etc., that you can't break it?

Toproll with cup, attacking rotator

Desperation move

And it’s back! Lol nice ;)

guys greating from germny: can you test out what happens if you start to push towards your oponent to force the elow off the pad (impulse) basicly pushing down wiht triceps down to the table but suddenly. do that 3 times and its a point without having to press throu

Champion!!!

If shoulder go at level or below level of the table is a foul. That should be in a rule book.

I'm fairly new to this and only "watch" arm wrestling so i may be totally wrong here but... Anyhow, my observation is that if you reverse the kings move you come back up instead of staying down. You fold your arm instead of straighten it and you move from the defensive side to the offensive side. Are you are in a press here or am i wrong ? If i'm right and have gotten things right you are not allowed to fold your arm and bicep/shoulder together completely and press with your body, or i'm a wrong about this? If i got it correct my question is why one are not allowed to fold ones arm completely and press with the body but allowed to straighten it completely and drag with the body? This seems to be a discrepancy to me considering everything else seems to have that counter balance. You/your opponent. Offensive side/defensive side. Inside/outside. Pronate/supinate. Press/drag and so on. But when it comes to open/closed (?arm position? or whatever you might call it) this balance doesn't seem to exist. If you are allowed to completely open and drag why shouldn't you be allowed to completely close and press? If the answer is no, why? Why shall the counterbalance regarding using the body between these two positions not exist? I reserve myself about sounding like a complete no-nothing here and maybe be overthinking this. Maybe one should be allowed and the other not because they are different moves. I just feel it lacks some balance here but what do I know...

Did Larry do no training against the kings move ? Allen was known to use it.

Competitors cannot drop the competing shoulder below the level of the elbow pad when in a neutral or losing position

Coach Ray looks huge in singlet

I dont armwrestle but Im wondering kings move is a defensive move so he can not pin you down with kingsmove right? then why cant you just wait until he try to transition to go offensive

The kings move originated with george zachowitz, he does not at all use a bone lock... There is a massive confusion between the kings (George), low hand open top roll or high hand posting open top roll (Engin) and the open kick back rolling post exampled here. The counters are kings < cup; low hand open top roll < supinate; high hand open top roll < lower wrist & move inside and finally kick back rolling post < post thumb ridge & supinate.

Love the video, but nobody can beat me, and my 4 friends in the kings move.

How healthy/dangerous is it to use KM with a bone lock?

7:45 MT also has a bone lock on his rotator lol

I didn’t like the matches that go straight to strap. It does take away from a strong hand. Make them earn the strap.

I want to see Oleg Zokh versus a king's move.

Genadi is thanking you

Can anyone tell me if I can train forearms everyday?

I think big difference in practice with Alex vs George and Devon v George is that Devon purposely gets to a position where George kings is fully set so he can practice different ways around it. Clearly it works with the way he dismantled MT like noone else has.

Your very last point in the video - Ive been saying that for years lol!! Only problem is that a 180 degree arm isnt a foul under all armwrestling associations. If it became a foul, I think it would be completely fair to measure the range of motion on competitors arms. This is pretty much destroy the kingsmove for good. If this rule was enforced, Michael Todd wouldnt be able to compete in even top 50.

You have to be able to put enough stress on the joint to hyper extend the elbow. With a that meat and the surgery elbow it's almost impossible vs a old vet of the game.

Squeeze that pronation stay patient until you got better position and BANG press that bugger! Do not hook a king's move ladies and gentlemen

KM is like a puzzle. U need Patience & a lot of strength in the right areas.