Exactly. Not only that, then they turn around and reject the deal. Despite changing their minds, why tell the salesman it's his call if you don't want to do it?

@@brahtrumpwonbigly7309 My wife does the same thing to me, everytime she says "You pick where we eat for dinner tonight"

I agree that boss was a scumbag for not making the difficult decisions and trying to make his employees look bad

@@MrPowerpen yeah the boss should have manned up and approved the sale.

to be fair to the boss, it was the owner that rejected the deal not the boss

The fine print also says "redeemable in participating dealerships "

Didn’t the other lawyer in the video look into it and say that the card agreement essentially says the dealerships have the right to refuse?

You cant fault them. No idea what back end charges they may face as well as the time it took to process that transaction. In the end they were good sports and any responsible business would question this completely unusual scenario.

To be more precise: Referring to the lawyer girl the cards only allow to buy merchandise. Not really sure if "merch" is the right expression for a whole bike. But nevertheless, imho the dealer made a real bad business decision that day.

@@Ano-Nymous Well, on the one hand, the specific language of the gift card (read aloud earlier) says "Products", but a motorcycle could still be called "Merchandise" accurately. On the other hand, though, the HD Cardholder's agreement stated that the dealership could choose to deny their purchase without much recourse. This purchase likely only went through because the buyer was the face of a nearly 2 million subscriber youtube channel. In basically any other case, the dealership would have pointed out that "This is very similar to a common scam tactic and we can't take that risk" and that'd be the end of it.

Nah I think they looked him up on KZfaq and figured the risk of refusing to accept a valid payment was too big

Exactly. Where else is he going to spend 20K with of non-refundable HD gift cards. . . At another dealer of course.

I feel like there could be some legality or HD policy issues if they refuse to take the gift cards.

And they probably weren't thinking it through with the non-refundable part meaning he had already invested that money, and were just wanting to refuse the gift cards in hopes he would go ahead and pay with another method. But when he stood up and walked out, they realized he wasn't going to buy the bike unless they accepted the gift cards.

i doubt the dealer is struggling to make money and could not care less about loosing one sale. i think it came down to them realizing it wuld be a youtube video and it looking bad on HD as a brand in genreal and head office getting involved when a video is released showing that the cards are worth 2 grains of F all when you try buy a bike with them

Yeah,the giant by me even has huge signs about it and stuff

See the thing is you can tell if someone is being scammed or not in those situations bikes and beards didn’t come across as someone being scammed he was very matter of fact when talking with them. For me I wouldn’t of had an inclination that he was being scammed based on tone and body language and the reason older people are more likely to fall for these scams is because they don’t understand most people born after the 80s hell even some born in the 60s understand these things. Though I will admit some older people are insanely intelligent so I can’t really dock all older people or claim all younger people are smart enough

facts it’s crazy i work in retail i’ve heard stories of people at other locations of my chain that have been scammed out of thousands, one instance where someone was scammed out of around $20k over a course of a few months

Sorry but, if they get punished, why even have gift cards anymore?

Exactly. You can actually be punished by law if there is enough neglect

yes

yeah, they looked up the yt and saw 1.59m subscribers 😆

It's not like the effort for swiping the cards was more than setting up financing, running credit, etc. Maybe they realized they would get chewed out by HD, or told they couldn't accept gift cards in the future.

Which means a regular guy couldn't do the same.

@@WhoTFstolemyname when they go through all that extra work to set up financing they are actually getting paid well to do it. When vendors accept gift cards or credit cards for payments they automatically lose 3 to 5% or possibly more. So basically what happened here is the dealer didn't get to make any money off of financing yet still spent the extra time it would have taken just to run a bunch of gift cards that they're going to lose some money on to accept them. I mean if they would have been smart they would have made a big deal out of it and said 'Here at our dealership we welcome everyone with whatever form of legal payment they want to use!' 'We value our customers!!'. Instead they kinda made it look like they realized that they f**ked up because no HD dealer wants bad publicity.

I have a few to charge for my air conditioning job for credit card. Why would I take that fee? I’m already taxed on top of that. Because the government is greedy we all have to suffer

i pick my medicine up at the same target he was buying the gift cards at lol. Rebuild Rescue is another big channel that is from where we live too.

nah its called content they wanted to make it seem like they couldn't do it to hook you in LMAO

They absolutely do that to everyone. I bought a brand new bike in 2020. 2 grand of the price was the shipping and handling of the bike. Even though I purchased the one at the dealership it was right in front of me. I was pissed.

Which is wild to think they about lost that deal over 700 bucks. Thats with the bike being 20k with 3.5% cards normally charge

I just want to throw in a little math here. Now this could be totally wrong. But let's say small merch stuff has a 40% margin but such a bike only has a 20% margin cause it is more expensive to produce. Now we actually would have a problem for the shop. Cause let's say they pay 1% in fees to harley. Those fees are sadly not bound to their margins or what they actually make with a sale. So while they could make 8000$ for small merch stuff that added up to a summ of 20k. With half the margin for a single 20k bike sale they would only make 4000$ on that. And now the problem is that they still would have to pay the exact same fees for both. See what I mean?. Now part of why the salesman called him back was probably also because he never asked if they "could do something" about the price, if you get what I mean. Chances are you get them down to 19.500$ or even lower if you ask. He didn't, so the fee never truly was a problem. Don't know how this goes in the states but in germany you can generally ask about reduced price if you visit a cardealer even if the car is new

There's three options as I see it: - The salesman vouched and said "I'll take the risk on this" - The sales team realized he was about to go spend his money at a competitor. - The salesman said "millions of people are going to watch that video and we can either be the good dealership or the bad dealership in town."

@@Vagitarian01or maybe Harley HQ waived those fees for the transaction and they were actually going to make a profit now.

yeah they were being kind of us the entire time. they were doing their best

Still was a huge pr failure.

@@danhunters8226 my guess is, the employees made the owner aware of the size of Bikes and Bears subscriber list After Sean and Dan left, and suddenly realized they needed damage control FAST.

@@lothre My thoughts

@@lothre My thoughts as well.

thats a very interesting perspective. i did not consider that

I watch walmart do this once. An old lady was trying to buy apple gift cards and they talked her out of it plus called the police on her behalf.

This is the IRS calling, you owe me 20k in harley gift cards to keep this warrant from being signed lol

@@BikesandBeards I use to work for unidentified tech company (nda) and it was surprisingly common lucky for some they would try to call back and we would get it and it's like okay we don't need the giftcards okay this isn't something I can fix over the phone but you can go to any of these unidentified tech company authorized repair center or to unidentified tech company store

I used to work for walmart back when covid started and around the peak of gift card scams, they hounded on the idea that if you were ringing up a customer for gift cards you better make sure that it's for a legit reason, and even capped out at like $500 in total for the cashier where any more would require a hire up, and if you were buying in bulk like 10+ cards, they'd just out right refuse to allow the transaction and suggest a digital purchase for them. I guess the main reason being the scams becoming more and more common. but It might also just be that if someone complains and wants a refund there's nothing the store can do as the card was auto-magically funded the moment the card is purchased (and the store directly sends that money to the card company) any kind of refund by the store would ultimately result in a hit for the store on a unsellable product that could've already been drained.

You used to be able to just pump gas without paying or swiping a card?

@@christianterrill3503 Yes, still can in some places. This isn't really a thing anymore though.

You guys pulled up with 1700 pennies and counted them? Yeah okay bro

@@wherethehoochiesat4210 Actually 1750, supposedly

@@christianterrill3503Yea… even now you can do that. Many places are phasing it out though. You just have to hit a few buttons and the clerk will unlock the pump, then when you’re done you can go inside and pay.

Happy to be the 22nd Like on your comment for this 22 minute long video! 😁

fake video, pre planned so not even close to real

@@ViperBitenESP I guess all those gift cards scanned at self checkout was fake too, maybe even a fake Target 🤔

@@teleporttc9905 I think Viper is a fake account.

@@craigfell6906 what are you talking about lol this video was amazing. Even if it was planned, a lot of hard work still went into it, and tbh I don't buy that it was planned. If the cards hadn't worked at that dealership, they already stated earlier in the video they'd just try a different dealership.

Wow! That's almost 15 Harley Davidsons!

I dont think thats a law here in the US unless its a state thing. But the law we do have is you can not decline ANY legal tender. if someone comes in with 20k pennies you have to take them, or open yourself to suit and criminal liability. In fact so many companies got away with it without the government doing their job its the real reason why theyre dissolving pennies from use.

I mean those 25$ card is bought for 25$ why wouldn't they accept it

@@rousrouslan4023 this one is yeah, but every card is different. Ive seen ones that charge you fees for every charge out of your gift card value. Many are still drawn out of visa and mastercards systems.

I’m from Alberta and didn’t know this. Cool fact my guy

And I think it's fake just to make a video for youtube. With 2 million subs anything is possible.

"advertising opportunity". Did they say in the video which dealership it was? Because if not, it's not really an "opportunity". It's "Make less money on this and spend more time doing it or else I'll create a bunch of bad press for you".

@@willlienellson7451 yes, they did

199%

On one hand it's weird and most people are aware of gift card scams these days, but on the other hand this guy is looking to pay in full the entire cost of the bike vs financing so I think it just tempted them too much.

Good point

Gift Cards are used in fraud.

It only gets flagged if the cashier wants it too

I don't really see what the problem would be as long as you are paying for the gift cards. For the store I worked at what would happen is that we would have to get a manager to put in the override key and they would ask if their purchase wasn't a result of being scammed

@@elliotthefennekin6506 Same where I worked, and then usually if it was a ridiculous amount like in the video, the manager would discreetly call us over to investigate.

i hope they saved all the cards and hung them up on the wall as some kind of trophy :P

@@strubbleler the salesman was prolly happy, but management seemed sour.

Got my Christmas bonus one year in a $500 gift card to the dealership I worked at. I didn’t own a vehicle of that brand, and I did all my own service so it was a pretty useless gift. The owner was a cheapskate, even though we made him millions every year.

@@cascadesouthernmodeltrains7547 funny stuff. I used to work at a massive manufacturer , turned over 300 million a year ,80 mill profit. they used to give us £30 turkey money and then it went to a small pie. Pretty sure they give them an extra lump of coal now.

@@cascadesouthernmodeltrains7547 That's the shittiest thing to do to the employees!!! I thought you were going to say "a $500 gift card" like a Visa gift card that you can use anywhere; that's not the formal way to do it, but money is money, but a gift card for a car dealership??? That's insane!!! "The greed is strong with your boss..."

Now this is some big brain maneuvers here

Interesting

Sir, you are a god damn genius. I admire your ingenuity.

I get paid in gift cards and have done some nutty, high dollar purchases because the $ value of a gift card is less than the cost due to all of the scams and fees... I did a $10,000 fishing charter in $500 cards one time. Imagine doing the assembly line with a bunch of deck hands and a pissed off boat captain lol.

This is awesome

Top that with the current economy

Those fees are for mastercard/visa/amex ect not gift cards that are internally registered to their system, who would the fee be going to?

No fee. Those aren't Visa/MC ...

It's a visa debit so the vendor get hit with a $0.50-$1.50 charge per transaction

@@kruszinc.8555 I thought thosse particular HD cards were not Visa?

It's neat that you can go into any bathroom you want there.

It was pretty clearly a joke

Yea its money and you should not waste it on the ugliest bike ever.

You're telling me people regularly buy entire bikes with gift cards? Or are you just saying that someone will come in with a say $500 gift card and put it towards a bike?

It literally wasn’t a fee for him you dip spit it was a credit card transaction fee every business has to pay every time everybody swipes plastic

@@chad8251 and he didn't just submit to it. still an excellent job.

@@maxieditsvideos it was never his to submit to he paid for it when he paid for the bike

@@chad8251 just the same, every fee in business is negotiable.

Ya….. a good salesman always has a bit of room to knock down a price a bit. Plus the press from the video. They thought why not….

The owner likely was reminded this was a 1+ mil subscriber channel of bikers and the negative coverage could literally put them into bankruptcy.

Video basically flaunts his clout

@@NotFromConcentrate why are you charged. Makes no sense

Fees to use the same brand of gift card makes no sense. It's not like they are paying visa or Mastercard for the services. When someone buys a gift card it puts the money on that company to use at a later time. I don't get why he was trying to charge a fee. Maybe a tactic to have him use another method.

When I heard, “Why are you taping?” I knew this was going to go south. Taping? Really bro? The 90’s called and they want their vintage reference back. No one has taped anything in 10 years. At least not in the US. Then he started in with the fees. I love how Shawn turned it around after he tried to explain how the dealership would pass on its processing fee to the customer and says, “So it’s a fee then.” The old guy shut up after that and had no other option other than to start putting up bureaucratic roadblocks. I am am older guy, not as old as the manager but old enough to know you have to constantly educate yourself and be ahead of trends. I am willing to bet money that manager doesn’t even like the Pan America because it’s an ADV bike. I don’t know of course but I know several Harley guys at that age and they aren’t fans. The manager is nowhere to be seen when they come back. Not surprised at all.

How though? you have to buy the card with real money. I had to purchase about 5k worth of cards one time and had to choose the amount up to 250 on each card.. The kid cashier tried to say I can only buy 2k worth and I asked for the manager and he said there wasn't a limit. I think people just assume something without thinking. Where's the scam if it's being bought with legitimate money?

@@briannmd1 think @JacobReichertchannel is referring to the person BUYING the gift card(s) being scammed. A lot of retail locations see unweary or elderly folks being conned into buying gift cards, which they give the information of to the scammers, who either use them or sell them for money. It's part of most big retailers' customer service training now to ask questions about purchases of over $500 in gift cards to make sure that no one is being taken advantage of.

@@jyrone3943 the scammer sells the codes for bitcoin they don't use them at all

@@briannmd1 I also work in retail. Whenever someone comes in to the store and asks to buy a large amount of gift cards, we are instructed specially on how to handle the situation. At the end of the day it is a judgement call on the cashier's side, but if we make the wrong choice our job *could* be on the line. Usually, I just try to bring it up in small talk while scanning the other items and let the person know that there are scams that can happen. We even have fliers to hand out. As long as they have a good reason and seem like they're alright, I usually let it go through. One person I remember wanted to buy like $1000 worth of gift cards for a company party, another had like 10 grand kids and wanted to give them each $200 visa gift cards for Christmas. I've never had anyone come to my register being scammed, but it's happened at least once or twice while I've been in the store, so I'm glad that places are looking out for their customers to some degree.

I'm surprised they didn't get accused of money laundering lol. When I worked retail we were cautious of people buying bulk gift cards because people will buy gift cards with stolen credit cards

1.6 million subscribers pulls a lot of weight.

@@travismccloskey9733 I can see it from both points of view, but the dealership would've tanked the sales of gift cards which would've knocked on the sales of their over priced merchandise. But he did have the receipts and it wouldn't have been hard to check them out. They'll probably update the terms now saying there's a limit on how many gift cards you can use at once or that they can't be used to buy the bikes.

The whole "scamming" thing makes ZERO sense in the context of this video. Scammers have people buy gift cards and then send them the gift card information as payment for fake services. In this video, they are purchasing gift cards so that they can make a legitimate purchase on their own.

@@hecticphusion It does, I know he didn't but he could've scammed a whole state of old people to get that many gift cards and now wants to turn them into something he can sell for cash. Or could've bought them all cheap from a scammer call centre for half their true value. Again I know he didn't and he showed proof he bought them. But look at it from the other side. Why would anyone willingly get that many gift cards to buy a bike instead of buying it normal with money? But as he said I'm doing it for content and to see if it can be done.

@@dave4803 what else are you supposed to use the gift cards on? I was under the impression that most people buy motorcycles at Harley Davidson dealerships.

They do as routine at every car dealership. The ole, let me talk to my manager bit.

I don’t think it was that deep in any type of way at all. You gotta have some thin skin to conclude this from that small interaction😂

It's common courtesy to shut the door. you don't want strangers listening in on your financial decisions.

@@sunhashin1019 oh, no it’s definitely a common courtesy thing for sure, but with the context of what was happening and in that moment it probably felt like an intimidation tactic in an interrogation rather than a privacy thing.

@@nick9602 you haven’t been in many of those situations where you feel like you’re getting grilled, or you have zero second hand embarrassment cause that was so awkward. Either way I am genuinely jealous🥲

It's a deduction!

@BAD IDEAS huh? Just an fyi, he meant sean was gonna give em away if this failed. Obviously he would of tried other HD dealers first. None the less, it worked so who cares.

Still, people can say its recorded in YT and get scammed just from that..

Different generation brother

I would not be surprised If there was a youtube channel where idiots went around scaming people in todays world…

@@dabasil Right? You know how many videos I see people doing stuff that is sketchy but because they are filming people just walk by like it doesn't matter? Imagine robbing a bank but having friends film you so when people see it happen just be like, "Lol it's a joke for video." I bet I could carry a body and shove it into a trunk while filming it and just be like, "It's for a video." and do it in public and people would let it happen. So yeah, this could easily be a con to do, use the camera to let people lower their guard...nothing has to get posted.

They didn't know that at the beginning

It almost seems that this video was structured to show that they (HD) are aware of scammers trying this trick and will investigate before giving the green light to sell a bike solely on gift cards.

So If it was 20k how much do u think the fees would be

@@Fivedeuce was like $200 when I bought a 11.500 bike

I thought merchant fees only applied to credit/debit card transactions. Not sure if they apply to gift cards.

@@EdenDaBootydepends on the vendor

So everyone they sell to is using cash. Right 😂😂. More like it was a separate processing fee built into the gift card itself which is why u can buy the card for free and your only paying what u loaded on the card.

we still have some extras

@@BikesandBeards pay all the services of that bike with gift cards during his life , make it the gift card bike

They have to do it that way. At least at publicly traded companies, and because that is common practice, probably everywhere else too. It's because there are laws for publicly traded companies that determine when they can considered income vs liabilities etc on their balance sheet. There are very specific points in the transaction at which you can say you finally made profit on. When you take an order, like with gift card, you have not delivered the goods yet so the card, or the order is still a liability you owe. Only when you deliver it, ie they take the goods, from the store with the card can you then considered it profit. So they have to say, they sold this... and when it's redeemed they have to deduct it from their money. To balance the equation.

Sounds like corporate gibberish!

@@SCARFACE69247 actually it's accounting 101

@@jkxss nah bro, accounting would be running numbers on tangible quantities. all that talk is what happens when the wrong people get the power to muddy simple processes, so yes, corporate gibberish and nonsense

@@bruh-db8by credit and debit are simple accounts which do not always represent a tangible quantity 😂 it’s definitely accounting 101.

I think so as well. They probably pay 15-20% in fees, when ppl are buying simple merch it doesn’t matter much but taking loss like that on a bike stings. I imagine the boss told the sales guy he wouldn’t make anything off the sale and that’s why he said “your call”.

I bet there's a federal law that the company can't charge a fee for using a gift card. The government made it illegal to have gift cards that expire, so they probably put in the bit about charging fees at the same time.

@@Noadvantage246 That fee structure is not true

Most people have been a retail employee, it doesnt take one to know that it sounded like someone was getting scammed

It’s not just that. It is very common for thieves to steal your credit card and buy gift cards.

Money laundering it’s easier to move gift cards then stacks of money.

To mediate this reply section, what if all of them are true?

Harley Davidson would be the most crazy scammer request though lol. Don't they have to resell the cards for a slight discount (depending on the popularity or usefulness) I imagine that the Harley city cards would be less valuable.

yes

Harley jackets for everyone! Then instantly broke cause they’re crazy high.

Thanks for watching!

Absolutely! Thank you for the reply! I also texted your phone number you guys gave out too the other day….I am down here in Delaware and I hope to get to meet you guys someday !

@@MikeyritZ 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

yep i bet some phonecalls were made and his youtube channel was looked at and they thought we cant look this bad to millions of bikers

"Im not even into bikes and I dont have a beard" 😅

Same here lol some cool/unique videos :)

That's awesome. You can always start small and see if you like it. I think most people with your outlook end up loving to ride. Good luck and God bless

Glad you enjoy it!

Wait so i can use gift cards to buy a motorcycle lmao!

But they would have if he’d bought a $25 hat from them. I’ve never heard of such an arbitrary thing.

@@MattChance fees smaller on that so they don’t mind obv, but that’s on them

Good guys there. This is our local place and never any issue. I want to walk in with 100 gift cards now lol

yeah but how does that involve what i was doing?

@@BikesandBeards Maybe they were scared you were getting scammed haha

@@BikesandBeards Maybe they thought it was a new version of the scam? Just a guess.

@@BikesandBeards Seems like the shop does need to pay a fee to redeem the card, which would smaller they margin of the sell. But yeah, they should have to accept it in my opinion.

@@BikesandBeards People just associate large gift card purchases with scams is all. There is no scam concerning Harley gift cards, it's just people being people.

She has saved my butt many times

@@BikesandBeards Can you pay her in gift cards?

Or they can make gift cards go up to $20,000. lol.

Thats exactly whats going to happen. The reality is, it would be a good way to buy a big ticket item without having to report anything to the FEDs. When a car is purchased with $10K Cash not a check but Cash, all dealerships have to report it.

@@spartanx169x Because the Feds are a privately run, zero-government-oversight, independent central banking cartel who sells paper currency notes to governments around the world, and charges interest for the use of every single piece. And they don't like people laundering their money around through goofy schemes...... only the approved high level politicians with extensive criminal backgrounds, involvement in billion dollar corporations, drug cartels, human trafficking, war mongers, Communists, heads of States, intelligencia.... only those people can launder their garbage currency around.