Hapened that way to me too.

Been there. I'm beginning to wonder if they didn't just build them that way for a while.

Yup. Allowed by code back then.

And this is why when I was helping my parents out I refused to work on something when my no-contact voltage tester lit. Yes, I know those things aren't perfect, but better safe than sorry.

Been there. Done that too. Shared neutral 3 rooms and 50ft apart. With other circuits in middle. So why it was shared with own hot breakers. Idk...

dude you are totally right haha i gotta be careful haha

Agreed shared neutrals 277v oweee

He has a video about shared neutrals.

But you wouldn't be touching nothing in that case, you would be touching the ground with your feet. The principle holds true.

@@acat6000 Touching a neutral under load you would be in a parallel circuit to ground I believe, most of the amperage going through the neutral. Yes? Am I thinking this right?

@@acat6000 If you touch a hot wire and nothing else, you can't get shocked. If we're living in a pretend world where you can touch just the wire even lightning can't shock you. In fact, if you are touching a hot wire and something else that has the same phase and potential as the hot wire (like when a lineman grounds a helicopter to a live 2 million volt line so the frame has equal potential to the line) you cannot get shocked. You get shocked when the voltage can cross from one potential to another that has a potential difference, making the video misleading. The principle holds true under a narrow set of circumstances with a large number of special conditions, but it does not hold true for everyday people who will never be in a scenario where it is applicable.

A lot of mistakes I see from people who are trying to understand insulation and how it works comes from the high school curriculum and the false statement they make that rubber is an insulator and electricity cannot flow through it.

@@scottmyers10 broh

There is a scenario where everything you are touching is insulated enough you are not a path for the electricity. That is why there is footwear for electricians that is rated for how many volts it will protect you from. And why electricians should never touch their knee to the ground.

@@ecospider5 Right, but “insulated enough” is a moving target that changes with voltage. That’s why microwave transformers and lichtenberg devices are so dangerous.

Yes and that is why the shoes are rated just like the rest of electricians protective gear. Do not wear gear rated for 300v when working on 15kv motors.

@@ecospider5 most gear I've seen even for low voltage 50 to 600 volts is rated for at least 600 if not 1000 volts never seen something only rated for 300v volts never the less I see what your saying use the right PPE I'd also recommend make sure to inspect it regularly like every use basically, learned that from some local lineman they were showing me even a pin hole in the gloves and you'll get fried right up and thats high volt crazy shit I'm over here just wiring some single phase panels but still gotta stay safe boy's good luck out there 🤞.

I was going off the voltages you see on multimeter ratings. And yes class 0 voltage rated gloves are 1000v and the ratings go up from there. But there are lower stuff. EA640ZD-5 As an example is 300v AC and 750v DC. No actual electrician would ever buy those though.

Try getting hit with the high leg of a 400 amp bus bar. Sucks...

were you grounded to any thing or did your body's surface area create some sort of loop?

There are a variety of factors that go into how "badly" you get shocked. The number 1 factor is the voltage or potential. Everything else tends to be limiting factors to how well that potential allows current to flow. So the pathways the current takes can make a significant difference, You don't want current flowing through your heart or your brain. So trying to keep the pathways away from those two areas is in your best benefit. You can pass some fairly high currents in milliamps that hurt a lot and may even cause some burns or even some internal damage without being killed. But lesser currents that pass through the heart or the brain can lead to death. Ultimately, the resistance of the pathway, is the primary limiting factor. We have both internal and external resistance, (through the skin contact areas). There has been a lot of research through the years and one thing it tells us is that different individuals have different internal resistances. But in a given individual their resistance can vary through the day. Research suggests a few groupings across a sampling of individuals. The biggest grouping being around 80% who have very similar resistance and then two groups of about 5-10% that have considerably higher or lower resistance. So most people will have very similar levels of internal resistance, but there will also be some "exceptional" individuals on both ends of the spectrum. With this in mind, they developed current ranges and typical perception and effects of these current levels. Some things like perceivable levels in the few milliamp range. tingling, minor pain, extreme pain, muscle contraction. "let go" threshold, mild burns, etc, all the way up to typical lethal levels. Another key factor before we get to the internal resistance, which is quite low, we have skin/contact resistance. These end up being the pathway entry and exist points. This is generally higher resistance than internal resistance, but can vary widely. Dry, callused skin has fairly high resistance, soft, supple skin has lower resistance. Moisture can lower resistance dramatically. Larger contact areas make lower resistance. Pressure or compression, also makes for lower resistance. "leaning contact" is usually a larger area with some pressure. Leaning contact with moist damp skin and solid grips, will deliver some "strong" shocks. Women and children tend to be a bit more susceptible to higher current shocks. Body mass can play a role too. When grabbing something and getting currents above the so called "let go threshold", muscle contractions can tend to keep you in contact, being hard to pull free. This is generally thought to be around 30 milliamps. But depending on which muscles get activated, these can also act to push you away. Any jointed body parts have opposing muscles. So you can be drawn in or pushed back depending on which muscles get activated. Sometimes that can contribute to other injuries. So in the end, it generally gets down to the math, but the variables can differ greatly. Higher voltage will cause stronger shocks. The time length of a shock is usually pretty quick, but longer length shocks can be worse. When you get above around 300 volts or have sustained shock currents, flesh can began to breakdown. That will obviously be worse and can cause permanent damage. If you are on the low resistance side of the spectrum, you'll likely get worse shocks and may perceive small shocks that other don't. If you are on the high resistance end of the spectrum, you are a bit better off, but the variable factors can still make you vulnerable. You can get some strong shocks or be killed by 120 volts, but the potential is worse at 240 volts. If you are going to work with electricity, odds are that you will get shocked from time to time. The key is paying attention and using safe practices. Avoid working stuff live and don't do it because of laziness to shut something off. Depending on the type work you do, there may be times when there is little choice. It's just good practice to work things like they are live. even when you know they aren't.

Some other factor must have been present because we've all been in desperate situations where you lost your neutral but still had 120 to ground so you landed that to the neutral screw in the device. You must have just broke the load on the return path and it made contact with the ground while you were touching it

On a proper system the voltage loss on neutral cannot be so high that you get socked. All my grounded sockets are done with TN-C so the cases are connected to the neutral and I do not get shocked. I have measured about one volt with 5 A load. If the neutral is broken then sure you get shocked from it.

@@okaro6595 yep

@@erich1380 this was a long time ago when neutrals were shared. I was landing a neutral in a push in wago and it was fighting going in. I used my strippers as pliers to grab onto the wire to push and twist it in. My elbow was touching a metal fire suppression pipe. My hand must have been touching the metal part of the strippers and the strippers made contact with the copper. It was an emergency and exit lighting circuit that was on. So my arm completed the path from the neutral to the ground. There was no device in that j-box i was working on. I was not touching any hots. So i got shocked by touching the neutral and ground while there was a load on the neutral. There was no mystery or anything like that going on. It's very simple what happened.

Human body is 300 ohms. 100 feet of 14 awg wire is 1/4 ohms. There is a calculation that will tell you what percentage would follow each path. Obviously 1/4 ohm is way smaller than 300 ohms so the wire will carry most of the load.

I bet you REALLY started to understand circuitry and grounding after that 😎. I’ve been shocked a few times in my career, anywhere from 120-347 volts. Never got lit up on a neutral, though. My journeyman explained open/broken neutrals to me very early on in my career…. Probably saved me from that “learn from the school of hard knocks” experience.

Still, I love to learn, and I'm seriously interested in becoming an electrician. At 44 years of age, is it worth getting into it now?

@@sunshinesucks1355 just hope your boots are well insulated

how can they sit in it?

@A Town Yeah, quite a bit actually. All over forums, and even here on youtube.

@A Town The argument is that if a Neutral is OPENED it is NOT a neutral anymore, it might be a conductor with white insulation, but it doesn't act as a Neutral anymore because it is OPEN (which makes it hot).

@@Hitman.13. exactly

In an old building, I got shocked by the neutral (and arm on metal box), I think it was load imbalance in an old building. Neutral was connected in a sub-panel to the right (isolated) bus; can still feel the "wiggling worms" in my arm to this day. 😬. Not an electrician btw.

@@Hitman.13. Which makes it (you) part of a series circuit to ground.

It might be a little bit lower, but probably not by that much. A 60 watt bulb on 120V will have a resistance of 240 ohms. Your body's resistance will be much higher than that (and if it's not, you're really screwed as you'll get a huge current going through you). So most of the 120V will be across you.

Yes

You're going to get a shock.

If any of the current goes through your heart I believe they typically wanna keep you at the ER for 24 hours to monitor your heart. People have been hung up, broke loose, shook it off and went about their day only to drop dead of a heart attack later on because of their heart being out of rhythm

Re start the heart is number 1. If a heart is stopped by lightning or electric shock it is the rare instance that you might get the heart to restart without the paddles. Keep doing cpr until the ambulance arrives. Step 2 is look for burns and treat them. If there are burn marks really far apart, like a hand and a knee, their might be internal burns so call 911. If it is from your hand to your elbow still see a doctor but the damage is contained in that forearm.

When I got shocked the guy I was working with made me stop pacing and looked at my hands for burns, adrenalin will be through the ROOF so having others with clear heads check for stuff like that is critical.

Been through it. My legs were numb for a week.