Doesn't look as though anyone has made any official references as yet! Surely they will at some point. We'll have to keep our eyes peeled!

It will be Py-π

​@@sujalgarewal2685 nah more like π-thon

Sounds like russian pronunciation

Hah. I like it. (The pun I mean)

Yeah, lot of nice quality of life updates in errors for sure!

Cyclical import update?

@@Carberra Oh nevermind, it only impacts circular references for the purposes of type annotations (I meant circular, not cyclical btw). Seems circular imports are here to stay (which would make sense)

I wasn't sure if you meant that or whether you'd come across something amazing I'd missed lmao. Yeah the lazy imports PEP (which wouldn't taken out circular imports for good) was rejected some time in 3.12's development, so yeah, they're here to stay unfortunately 😔

I wonder how android apps like Pydroid work 🤔

@@vinylSummer, same question

@@Anonymous-6598 I googled it. There's a python-for-android lib that does some smart cross-compilation magic, so there's at least that

What do they mean by that? There's going to be an interpreter app? Or a library to run python inside other apps?

​@@vinylSummer I think it's because Android is just a Linux distribution on which Python can be installed.

Where is this? I don't see a mention of it in the release notes.

Indeed! I didn't include it in the video as I'd covered it before and there hasn't been any major updates since, but it looks to be coming along very nicely. Hopefully it's all ready to go for the final release!

I don't believe this change will resolve that, if you mean what I think you mean. You'll still to import types, though there'll be less of a need to import types at runtime. Still won't nullify all the benefits of that though.

You can actually use built-in functions like dict(), int() etc. to do that! (I think anyways, I've seen it, never tried it personally.)

@@Carberra Yeah, I've done that. But I don't know if it helps type checkers narrow down their analysis as much as these tools (otherwise why would they exist?). Or maybe it's just people coming from TypeScript and wanting to do things a certain way

I also would like an explanation on this.

Because it’s basically just like an inlined continuation passing style chained function call JIT. If your interpreter is well written and your language has fundamentally slow semantics (like python) you won’t see much gain from something like this. The reason JITs are fast is due to optimization and speculative optimization especially for dynamic languages. This style of JIT does neither. The generated code still treats every variable as what it is: a big dynamic blob of memory that you can’t assume much about. So basically we’re only seeing the time to find the next byte code instruction and some function call overhead within the interpreter optimized out. I’m very surprised to learn that this style of JIT is “new” though. Maybe it wasn’t formally described until 2021 but I’ve literally written (half of) a JIT for a toy gameboy emulator that works the exact same way because it’s so obvious and easy.

@@ilikeshiba But numba-jit provides an improvement at like orders of magnitude, why does this jit give us only 10 % or whatever it was?

@@AsgerJon I’m not personally familiar with it but from a quick glance at their website, numba is optimizing and using LLVM. It’s unclear if it’s doing any speculative optimization but even without speculative optimization, knowing the order of instructions would allow optimizations like reordering instructions, possibly vectorizing, reallocating registers to avoid register spills, removing duplicated work between bytecode instructions, and fusing instructions together in some cases. LLVM is much, much, much higher overhead in terms of code shipped and time spent compiling your code than the simple technique CPython is using. The main appeal of JITs like the one that CPython is shipping is that they’re simple and obviously correct and you’ll pretty much never spend more time running the JIT than you will gain by having done it. I think CPython is more concerned about strictly following the spec and being simple than being fast. Faster alternative compilers will still have a place for less conservative users that don’t mind more (potential) breakage or heavier python runtimes with more potential bugs for speed. But if it’s as fast as you say then they probably are able to, either speculatively or by changing the semantics of Python, optimize types into simpler ones that can be run quickly. I’m not 100% sure but I assume Int is an object on the heap that works as an arbitrary precision integer without any extra optimizations in CPython. In numba they probably give you access to either a fixed bitwidth number type implicitly or explicitly and can use that alone to get massive speed ups and even further optimizations that will just never be possible otherwise. It can change what would be multiple virtual function calls on an object on the heap doing lots of work into 1 or 2 machine instructions operating on a register.

@@AsgerJon???? They explained exactly why in the comment you’re replying to.

It basically just collects small parts over time rather than the whole heap at once. I didn't include it in the video as I couldn't find any performance comparisons between the two systems.

I’m a bit worried about this. I’m writing wrappers for AutoCAD where the objects have an open-forread, open-forwrite, and closed state. As of now, GC is mostly deterministic and I rely on it’s current behavior

He went kind of fast but if you understood literally nothing I’d recommend reading one of the O Reilly Python textbooks.

🐍💨

It is 563, sorry. I've watched this so many times and missed that! Thanks for pointing that out.

@@Carberra No problem. Great video.

Xd

what's a pyscript?

​@@ewerybodyjavascript but py

I'm plugging myself a lot in the comments today apparently, but I made a video on PyScript if you want to know more: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jKpippVkr82pZ30.html

There is transcrypt

Did it? How so?

@@Carberra pip install soandso used to work perfectly. Now its returns env and permission error for everything, on a local admin account 😑😑

@@seansingh4421curious to hear more about this, i just built a server running 24.04 and curious to hear how it went

😀

Ew brother

Isn't there a GIL-less build as of 3.12?

If you're curious, there looks to be a label on GitHub specifically for this work: github.com/python/cpython/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label%3Atopic-free-threading+ I didn't talk about it this time cos there wasn't really much to add over what I've discussed before, but it looks to be coming along rather well!

@themartdog The 3.12 GIL-less build was an unofficial prototype, a proof-of-concept kinda thing. The 3.13 one is (planned to be) a much more feature-complete thing. I'm not quite sure how far along they are at the moment.

What has Gil ever done to you?

@@jonragnarsson You should rephrase what has GIL hasn't ever done to you.