It should be noted that Iona, Shield of Emeria got put on the banlist at the same time Painter's Servant got taken off; they very specifically did not want those two cards to be legal together but they thought Servant was fine as a combo piece without Iona to exploit it.

They banned Iona for two reasons 1) They wanted to unban the card Painter's Servant, a card that makes all other cards one color and can be used with Iona to "end the game without ending the game". The RC and the CAG both agreed that Servant was an overall more positive addition to the format than Iona and that the two could not be allowed to exist together. 2) Iona necessitated mono-colored cards running colorless removal in case Iona locked them out because there is nothing fun about being told you can't play because you brought a mono-black deck and begging the other two players at the table to let you play by removing Iona goes beyond politics.

I'm convinced that anyone who wants Iona unbanned has never played commander with it at lower power levels. Mono-colored decks may be uncommon in CEDH, but in casual, they appear frequently. Using a single card to lock one or more opponents out of the game entirely is insane. I used to run several mono decks at my college's MTG club and had to specifically alter my decks just to not lose to Iona for the 50th time. (It should also be noted that this was during a time when Kaalia of the Vast was one of the most played commanders.) Playing a single color is already very difficult in the format so you really don't need to be further punished for doing so. I'm also not opposed to adding more stax pieces to the banlist. But calling Iona one of the least impactful is just entirely incorrect.

I think Iona is banned because it reads "Fuck you in particular!" If you name a color only 1 player plays only that player can put down their hand while not technically dead

I think with Iona, she was mostly banned (minus the painters servant combo) because it basically makes it so one player at the table can’t play. If you sit down with a group of 4 people, usually at least one person is playing mono colored or 2 colors. If you shut off one color, one person just can’t play for the rest of the game. Locking one person out of the game is just a really mean thing to do

This is why Shaharezad should be unbanned. If "not playing Magic" is bad, then having to play more Magic should be good.

I think you're downplaying the problems with iona. First, it can be a commander, second if one guy is playing mono color (which is already limiting yourself and shouldn't be punished further) you can literally lock them out of the game. If the rest of the table is ok with it they can literally just bully them out of the game. I mean, I think unbanning it wouldn't be as bad as people would rule 0 it out, but I think you missrepresented the problems the card brings to the table

Seeing Leovold in the thumbnail makes me think you need to do a video similar to the YGO one about "cards that have become memes, either in or out of the community"

10:05 very important note: only green/ white can deal with enchantements in a proper way. Imagine if only half of the table even has even more than 2 enchantment removal spells in their deck.. and even then, you just recast your commander and it starts all over again : )

An important thing to add with hullbreacher. it doesn't just do the combo it gives you a lot of mana meaning you can use your new hand right away and get even further ahead

One consideration for the Commander banlist is the RC is generally careful about cards that cause players to make significant shifts in the ways that players build their decks. Meaning something like Iona may cause players to feel they need to run cards that are colorless removal, like Meteor Golem, that they wouldn't normally run just to deal with this one potential threat. That was one reason why many people have speculated that cards like Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines will be banned, since cards that provide removal from ETB triggers suddenly can't interact and would need to add other forms of removal to interact in meaningful ways.

The reason Iona is banned is because she’s targeted. It doesn’t affect everyone…just the one player that chose a mono-colored commander. Remove the color identity restriction, and she’d be unbanned in a flash! But it’s NOT just because she’s a stax piece.

Small amount of additional context for iona: There exists a card known as painters servent. It was on the commander banned list previously. I won't go into what it does here, but it's commonly agreed servent and iona can not exist in commander together. Servent came off the banned list at the same time iona went on. Servent allowed you to do more with its inclusion then iona did. You an argue whether or not it was a good choice. But it at least gives some additional context.

Here’s the difference between Iona and other stax pieces. For one, most stax pieces require you to build your deck in a certain way, and that’s not fun for most casual players to play. Iona doesn’t really do that, you can play it in almost any reanimator or polymorph deck. And that’s what players did. Iona is very similar to hullbreacher or Leovold in that it was just a powerful lock piece that casual decks were running, and wasn’t being policed as well as other cards of their kind. Also, mono color decks already have a hard time, having a card that doesn’t require any build around and says “you can’t play the game while everyone else can” is just something that really shouldn’t be allowed in commander.

Love seeing the commander banlist. I always love the idea of discussing whether some of the cards could come off the list considering new cards and combos that exist

Another thing with upheaval: it returns them to your hand, meaning that if you don't have no max hand size, you can kiss 3/4th of your previous board state goodbye

Iona won me a game once. Casted her on a table where everyone was playing multicolor with blue (except my deck, a *borrowed* WBR angel tribal), baited them into tapping out and/or burning coubters and played Iona on a battlefield where I already had a couple decent angels in play. Everyone else played one more turn and conceded rather than being dragged into a "topdecking my only response, if any, while you pummel us" situation. It was an absurdly specific set of circumstances, it required at least some strategy to pull off, and it *still* left a bad vibe at the table. There are worse offenders, yes, but casual tables still resent losing to not being able to play.

I’d also like to point out that Erayo, Sorotari Acsendant is a better version of Jin, progress tyrant.

Iona might as well say “target mono colored player loses the game”

iona sounds like a nightmare. I dont care if my opponent is locking everyone out of the game, but as soon as they turn to my mono green, black, or red deck, you better believe I'm scooping at instant speed because fuck that

I remember the day Leovold got banned. My housemate called me in distress, despite me sleeping like two rooms away.

For Leovold: Since Leovold is a legendary creature, it can be the commander of the deck. Which means, very few cards can deal with it while still being in the command zone like Declaration of Naught, Drannith Magistrate or counter spells if any of the aforementioned cards are in hand to deal with Leovold while being cast or still in the command zone. For Hullbreacher: Depending on the deck, it mostly had to do with the ability that gives the controller of the card temporary mana at worst. A lot of people are gonna wonder if you have a counterspell in hand, which you probably do, instead of Hullbreacher whenever you hold up at least three mana. Hullbreacher can be put in any deck that utilizes the draw restriction like in Leovold or in decks with a lot of draw spells or wheel effects.

As someone who play monoblack decks, I absolutely hate Iona. I can dealt with winter orb, stasis, woid winover or armageddon, but not her. Once my opponent name my color and I''m done. Little i can do, other then beggin others for help.

Idk if anyone else has said this (and I'm pretty surprised YOU didn't say this, normally your videos are very whollistic and documented) but you left some important stuff out of the Ionia section: 1) Ionia does not make the player who cast her win the game, she just makes other players unable to play. It's very similar to the previous entry in that regard 2) She actively punches down on mono-colored decks, which are already not terribly viable; when Ionia is a legal card, it is actively a bad decision to build a mono-colored deck. 3) Unlike the other cards you compared her to (except Void Winnower, but ill get to that in a sec), Ionia is Assymetrical; there is no tactical decision to playing her, since you don't have to deal with any of the draw backs. She's easy to run, easy to cheat out, and the only thing she does is punch down on your opponents. (On a side note, I understand why you compared her to Void Winnower, but unless you have a portion of your deck dedicated to being even CMC, you probably aren't worried, since Path, Swords, Pongify, Beast Within (or song of the dryads for a bandaid solution), chaos warp and murderous rider are all odd mana cost. Where as with Ionia, theres mitigating her effect. Just wanted to respond to your "I have no idea what the rules committee was thinking" comment 🤷‍♂️

Leovold is the reason I purchased a timetwister. It took me months to perfect a deck and then it got banned. I was running hermit druid lines.

Another thing with Erayo counting all players’ spells is that if you interact with the Erayo player to prevent them from flipping the card but don’t succeed, you probably just helped flip it faster.

The scriptwriter certainty gets way more sassy when talking about Commander, which is probably a testament to how much that format has divided the MtG community

I don't believe it should be banned, but Sway is incredibly powerful, especially in decks that were peak power during the time of its banning. Effects like Jhoira to suspend spells, or combined with cards like Detention Sphere empower Sway to close games out. That said, at a prohibitively high mana cost and niche commander synergy doesnt merit a ban imho.

The only reason I'd want Iona unbanned would be to give all the 30+ counter spell blue mages at my locals a taste of their medicine. But that being said, I don't want her off the list for the simple fact that it's waaay more oppressive than you're letting on. I played when she was in standard back in OG zendikar block and the sheer number of times I saw people, myself included, get locked out of a game on turn 4 was unreal. Since she's a commander it really wouldn't be that difficult to turbo her out on turn 3-4. I main mono red control with Jaya Ballard who regularly hits 7+ mana turn 4. So i know it's possible to hit that much mana that quickly in mono white.

Yay been waiting for more of the commander bans

"I'm sure we can come to an arrangement." "The arrangement is you either banhammer or you can't play." Dinkleberg: "Well, who can argue with that logic?"

Upheaval is fine, I would argue. It's a big, splashy, and expensive sorcery that effectively says "win the game" on it, and I'm fine with those existing in EDH. Sure, when you have 9-10+ mana and you get to Upheaval and replay and land and some mana rocks you're very ahead and likely to win, but you *already* had 9-10+ mana available. How many cards are there in EDH that will basically win you the game if you have at least 10 mana? I mean, just in blue there's Expropriate, Time Stretch, Onniscience, Enter the Infinite, (sometimes) overloaded Cyclonic Rift, etc. Really, the only reason I can see for Upheaval being banned is so people don't just cast it willy-nilly with no plan to use it to win the game, because that *would* suck, but I would argue that applies to lots of other cards that are legal, and thus is more of a problem for the social contract aspect of EDH to handle as opposed to the ban list.

There are a couple of notes to be made about Iona that justify her ban even if Void Winnower and the Orbs are still unbanned. The first is, none of the other cards feel as bad when they hit. Virtually no deck will have ONLY cards with even mana value, so it's difficult for it to actually shut down any deck, and the orbs do have counterplay. However, mono-colored decks exist and are not rare, and if Iona hits one of them it shuts them down entirely, which makes it an unfun experience, plain and simple. It being asymmetrical also allows you to hit other mono-white decks as well. It also has a combo with Painter Servant, since the two of them together mean that your opponent can't cast spells full stop, but do not actually win the game, creating one of the combos that you don't want around. Of the two, the less problematic spell is Iona, since it has the other cases and the feel-bad that Servant lacks, with it being banned for its milling combo. However, once it was decided that the milling combo wasn't that bad anymore, it became obvious that there was no sense to keep Servant banned instead of Iona, so they took Servant off and banned Iona instead.

I think the main problem with Iona is shes one sided. You shut down all of your opponents from playing a certain color, while you are perfectly fine.

WHY isnt the banned as commander a separate list. People who can understand a game as complex as magic can understand TWO LISTS!

Sway has the exact same strategy as Upheaval, so you're starting off three or more mana on the new hands.

You cant play around iona if your monocolored but you can possibly play around a card like stasis or winter orb.

I don't feel like your analysis of Hullbreacher is...correct? Like it having flash is really important but Notion Thief ALSO has Flash so its worth noting there are two other really big things that set Hullbreacher apart 1) Hullbreacher is 2U, not 2UB. Being able to come down a mana earlier is hugely impactful in terms of how quickly it can be a threat, and it can even respond to other draw effects pretty quickly before you decide to wheel. 2) Hullbreacher in a multiplayer game produces tremendous amounts of mana. If you Wheel of Fortune, you draw a new hand of 7 cards AND 21 treasures. In a game like cEDH, that's pretty likely to end the game on the spot, especially if you draw into more wheels or Timetwister style effects. It essentially turns every wheel into both card draw, hand control, AND a massive ritual whose mana can be stored. It breaks the symmetry of the card in a really massive way, and if you have cards like Demonic Tutor, Underworld Breach etc it wins you the game because of it. That's honestly why its the most powerful of the bunch.

Amazing!!!!

Erayo would be really interesting in cEDH games. It would probably get desroyed with its transform trigger on the stack a lot, which would be interesting.

cards that punish players for only playing one colour of mana are inherently unbalanced in commander, and I'm not talking about cards like choke or boil, those punish mono blue decks, Iona can punish *any* mono colour deck, and nothing is quite as rude as that one ahole player (and every lgs has one) who is all too happy to purposefully lock out one player in a multiplayer game if anything Iona proves there needs to be a separate banlist for CEDH, it's fine there, you should expect to run into miserable prison decks, but it should not be legal in the format as a whole

Iona can target certain (or all) players way too easily, which is usually the player(s) that represents the biggest threat, making it a versatile Stax piece, whereas the Winter Orb and Stasis affect all players, including it's controller, necessitating very specific deck construction to be effective, while Iona doesn't affect it's controller negatively in any way. I've played against it many times and it most often signaled win condition for the player using it, and it's about as un-fun as a card gets.

You can play another lands after a Armagedom, but you can't remuve a Iona if It chose tour color.

with sway of the stars i think the real thing is that while it's not at all powerful there's never an argument that resolving one makes the game more fun or interesting for anyone except some petty sadist who wants the game to last another hour

Surprised you didn't mention the Treasures part of Hullbreacher more in your explanation. It doesn't just negate draws, it replaces each draw that would have happened with a Treasure being generated _on your_ (the player who played Hullbreacher) _side of the field_ A wheel with Hullbreacher out not only forces all opponents into being Hellbent, it also gives the HB player a ton of mana to be able to play out whatever they drew in their new hand and/or whatever cards they are able to draw going forward, essentially making the card be a Narset (a card that many people call to be banned for the discussed wheel interactions) and Dockside Extortionist (a card many people agree generates way too much mana advantage far too easily and may be deserving of a ban in the future) combined And unlike Dockside you don't need additional pieces, like Blink spells or to sacrifice and reanimate it, to continue getting value from HB. In addition to stopping your opponents from casting draw spells moving forward, there are lots of mandatory draw triggers like Enchantress effects, Beast Whisperer, Vedalken Archmage, etc. that if present on the battlefield essentially turns HB into a soft Stax effect against one of more players, as now by just playing their deck they compound the advantages that the HB player already has

l find it hilarious that in a set literally called "Commander Legends", they printed a card which they immediately banned because it was deemed unfun. In my opinion, if Hulbreacher should stay banned, then Dockside Extortionist should also be banned. ln higher power CEDH tables, almost everyone without exception plays a combination of Blue/Black, and l don't think that anyone in the table wouldn't have an answer to HB. As for lower powered tables, honestly, l think it's the same thing. All colours have a way of dealing with creatures so l don't think it would be such a big deal. Now as for the arguments for wheel effects. While l agree that with Hullbreacher down it basically becomes impossible to play, wheels in CEDH aren't that well spread, and if you're playing casually then your play group should've already set some rules of what NOT to play.

Sway of the Stars (MTG) is Fiber Jar (Yu-Gi-Oh!) on steroids. Change my mind...

I would like to see hullbreacher unbanned but with the wheel thing I get it. I have a Kwain deck that is super fun but the major downside is I will be giving everyone cards constantly and in blue/white aside from narset I haven’t found a real solid way to stop everyone else from profiting off my crackhead tap untap stuff the deck does. Hullbreacher in my deck wouldn’t feel too oppressive would still suck for sure but would give me something to hunt down and let me use my commander to draw for only me. I get it though just wish I could use it would fit so well without being a combo

I remember back in 2015 when this dude was sleeving a commander deck and I asked him "oh whats the deck/ command". Shows me Erayo and tells me its designed to be a blue stax deck to police the table and I mentioned "I think its banned". The dude decks his phone and was like "damn ..."

I remember i really wanted to get a Hullbreacher for my beckett brass deck and at the store was told it was banned, sorta disheartening but makrs sense

You're nuts for wanting Iona unbanned lol

Some of these comments make me think several people here haven't faced down Iona in a competent deck. She doesn’t even need Painter's Servant to end a game. Putting aside mono color decks are often just done, and has a fairly good scoop rate for dual color decks: Turn one Show and Tell, turn two reanimate. Throw in Sakashima just for a two color block. Sneak attacked for insurance, and an extra 7 damage to a lethal swing, or to just ruin a turn for someone. Even hard cast late in the game no one is happy to see her. It's odd whoever wrote that script classes stacks as worse. Every color has an answer for artifacts, and enchantments. Several have options with spilt second that are almost impossible to stop. Iona says no, and it is so. Full disclosure: I don't support any bans at all. Accounting for the arguably cheap shit your play group goes for is part of the fun. It's just odd to see support for a ban list, and an argument to unban one of the biggest go fuck yourself cards ever printed.

I'll be long gone before wizards unbans gifts ungiven but hey at least my grandkids can finally play it when a more power-crept version is released anyway!

Just a side tangent and venting here, but what also makes a legacy legal card STOP players from playing the game is an unreasonable price. i don't care how good Wheel of Fortune is, i'd rather use Magus of the Wheel. i don't care how good Lions Eye Diamond is, i'll do my best to make use of Diamond Lion which i still think should had been designed to be a ONE casting cost spell not two. Linvala, Keeper of Silence is a commander option where depending on what your playing can read "Target player can't play the game" while everyone else seems to have only ETB effects and combat triggers. BUT, you can still do something to advance your boardstate and potentially interact with your opponents, including remove Linvala, Keeper of Silence. Iona, Shield of Emeria however, because the COMMANDER format is entirely built around playing a color identity, the Iona player can literally just name your color, and suddenly you can't play the game anymore. And if you had access to removal you can't play them. Static Orb, Winter Orb, and Stasis each have a "stipulation" for the card to be in effect or otherwise it also effects the player who played it. Reason why i don't like Drannith Magistrate, but unlike Iona which can completely shut down a players ability to play, Drannith Magistrate only limits your opponents ability to play. Notion Thief is difficult enough to cast especially at four cmc that it's a balanced card. Narset parter of veils is never going to get banned because itself is a noncreature spell and being a planeswalker you can directly attack it if able to. Hullbreacher especially deserved to be banned because it not only allowed you to remove your opponents hands, but also give you mana for doing so.

This channel once again proving it has a surface-level understanding of Commander and its design philosophy.

The fact that Leonard and hullbreacher don’t end the game on the spot is the reason they’re so much better unbanned. If someone does that combo and grinds the game to a halt rather than winning on the spot, it suddenly becomes a game of tyrant. I think that’s a fun enough play pattern.

Iona could be unbanned as you are right that there are objectively more powerful effects but the fact that it's very likely to just lock a specific player of your choice out of the game and the other players have little to no incentive to target it makes it much worse for the social part of the game. winter orb is horribly broken and mean in commander but at least you know that everyone at the table wants it gone and someone will likely have something to destroy it, Iona is likely just a kick a player out of the game piece that has inherently limited removal options when used this way

Erayo isn't as big an issue as people think it is, considering how simplistic it is to get around via "uncounterable" spells and effects or lands like Bosejiu, who shelters all being affordable lands that solve the issue entirely to deal with it. Its not a threat, it never was. As for Iona, the sole reason she was banned was painter's servant. the two simply can't exist together cause it buggers far too effortlessly on a very effortless curve. CEDH should -never- be a factor in bans/unbans, the format is basically poor mans canadian highlander and frankly, anyone playing CEDH should play that instead if they give a remote flying frig about competition and skill. this is at least, my opinion anyway. Especially on Erayo as someone who ran her exclusively up until she was banned all around. I for one, am all for a "banned as commander" list return. It was so small and barely anything would be added to it in current stand point, that it would hardly be confusing for new players IMHO.

Banned as Commander list needs to come back, IDK why the RC can't figure out anything better than just banning a card full stop, it should be so easy. Like Lutri, its one of the worst versions of that effect, it should just be banned as companion but playable as your commander or in the 99, I think its so stupid that its not.

Banned as commander list needs to be back, they just threw a ton of cards in the regular banlist that are fine in the 99.

Golos the tireless pilgrim because...it's to good in mid power level decks and too many people play him lol Not good enough for CEDH though...

Iona is the only one i would say to take off, its 9 mana. It doesn't win the game when you play it. Hit with 2 removal spells and its almost unplayable as a commander but i also think they should bring back the banned as commander list.

Iona was banned so they could unban painter's servant

Didn’t know Saul Goodman made the first entry on this list

The 1st combo is just Trickstar Droll & Lock Birb. Get it?

...Stasis and Winter orb both have playable ways around them. Enchantment removal for Stasis, and other untap bans and/or artifact removal for Winter Orb. Ions doesn't really have a workaround like that. It's a 7/7, which outside of removal spells can be difficult to remove by the simple act of keeping it out of combat, and colorless has very few outright removal effects. As for Armageddon, its a lot less permanent than untap banning is. It doesn't prevent new lands from being used like an untap ban, and it doesn't prevent specialized gravegrabbing from getting those lands back. Iona does, by making those new lands almost entirely useless. I don't generally like bans in EDH and am a MASSIVE proponent of Rule Zero - hell, I'd let someone use Emrakul Aeons Torn as their commander without a second thought - but I absolutely support this particular ban.

Fourth spell means creatures aswell since its a summon spell

(0:22) Whoops, you put "1 White" in the text where it should say "1 Blue".

Top 10 Landfall cards

Hullbreacher would've been a fine card if it was white

Thank you, KZfaq algohrithm. Surely I wanna watch Part 3 before I've watched Part 1. smh.

That dude in the thumbnail (Leovold) looks like elven version of Saul Goodman, lawl

Because Iona is not symmetrical, and most of the Armegeddon or Orb effects are, it's much easier to just lock someone out completely. When was the last time you put Universal Solvent in your commander deck to destroy Iona? Exactly.

I kinda wish Hullbreacher wasn't a replacement effect

I just want a Sultai Elf commander 😭😭😭

Iona is worse than Stasis/Orb/Armageddon purely because of how one-sided it is Stasis, Orb, and Armageddon disrupt ALL spells, not just one color... but that's just it. They disrupt ALL spells. Including yours. Stasis and Winter Orb affect your untaps. Armageddon destroys your lands. Iona doesn't block your spells, even if you're playing the named color. A monowhite deck could play Iona naming white and then merrily cast Path to Exile right after it because it only affects opponents.

Why is there a ban list for cas?

I love Iona, but I agree with her ban. She is way too easy to cast in commander.

Tbh if the banlist was about fun and letting people play the game then 2/3 of blue 1/2 of white 1/2 of black would be banned 😂

I’m a cedh player and erayo might still be way to good for the format

Iona doesnt slow down, it shuts down

Dang, no Sharazad :(

BOL-ASSES CITADEL 😂

Hullbreacher was fine. Players just need to play more interaction and removal.

why isnt narset banned

Well, Hullbreacher gets 1 treasure per card that would have been drawn. So if someone has 6 cards in the hand, that is 6 cards and 18 mana whilst emptying each other player's hand.

The other erayo issue: arcane laboratory. Opponents can’t remove it becuase their first spell is countered by erayo, and the lab prevents them from casting any more spells.

“Why is this asymmetric lockout card banned when these symmetrical stacks/land destruction cards aren’t, I have no idea” That’s when I unsubscribed. Even ignoring the clear disdain for Commander as a format, at least understand symmetrical vs. asymmetrical.

Why is upheaval banned? Yes.

Like cyclonic is much worse than upheaval....

Top x cards people want banned list?

Leovold = Alan Partridge

" Cards that stop Ur opponent from paying at all " .. of course YGO players know best since that is literally their game

I just want to play Leovold as an Elf tribal deck, especially since LotR added a while Simic elf deck while Golgari elves is already really popular

No, read the card. Hullbreacher stops them from drawing more than one card as well. They can only draw that very first card. Literally the only difference between the two draw effects is that hullbreacher gives you treasure tokens. Unless there's been a very weird judge ruling that for some reason makes "more than one card each turn" mean "more than one card at a time"...

All due respect but you are completely wrong on Iona. Its band cause it feels really bad to be the only player at the table locked out. If you get locked out you might as well get up and find a new table. There isn't any reason for anyone not effect to counter or remove her and the game will most likely continue for a long time. Cards that lock the whole table have less negative impact on the game since there are 3 players that will try to stop them. Cards that make a single player feel picked on are not good for the game.

Also with regards to Iona, it's not too hard to cheat her out either.

Cards that when used, a judge is legally allowed to summon the nearest blunt object and attack you directly ten million times with it.

Sorry, but Void Winnower is not "just as disruptive" as Iona. Iona should remain banned forever. The fact that Color identity exists in commander means Iona should never be unbanned.

idc what anyone says iona needs to stay banned 😂