???

I thought Liszt’s sonata is on another level! Is the Czerny Op. 365 harder than that? Maybe technically?

@@thepianofoundation Czerny B minor sonata is really hard !

Nice choice! 😎

@@thepianofoundation 🌟☺️☺️☺️✨💎💖💖💖

We hope to move onto those some day! 365 is seldom performed but I know of at least a few absolute gems in there!

The tempo marked in the books is even faster!

The translation from German is rather poor. It is not about velocity. It is about the art of bringing the beauty of piano sound at great speed.

You start them slower. Then speed them up.

​@lindasaroucos5718 What's a good speed to start at on the metronome and what speed are these being played at?

@@kwamestamps35basically the speed you are comfortable with and then go up from there.

Good choice! That one sounds like a butterfly dancing.

N°39

No. 34

I like them all.

I love 7

39

More fun than 599 and 849 nonetheless!

@@thepianofoundation No. They are equally fun for me.

This is MIDI recorded stuff. Well done but still edited digitally

@@martingauthier7377 Thank you very much.

😱

there is not melody here these are scales nothing more !

Suggest you to adjust the speed to 0.5x, enjoy!

I believe you can play them as musically as you possibly can!

I have played them all and they greatly improved my technique and sight reading.

​@@Organintetnational Could you explain more how these exercises aid sight reading please...? Are you able to recognize some of the sections in pieces??

All numbers are under the indicated tempo. Because the suggested tempi are either physically impossible to perform and/or ridiculously anti-musical. By the way the talented-pianist-without-a-name is digitally edited.

martingauthier 7377. I have already commented on your post elsewhere, so here we go for a new round. There is nothing scientific about the formulation: «…ridiculously anti-musical». Therefore, such a argument has no value. What sounds ridiculous to some, sounds perfectly fine to others. What gives us important information on a scientific level are the old written sources and the composer’s own information. The very fast MM numbers in op 299 are the composer’s own, and therefore obviously cannot be overlooked. A number of videos here on KZfaq confirm that they are playable. I haven’t found all 40. The explanation maybe that the pianists find the musical content uninteresting. Here are some videos that show pianists at Czerny’s pace: Czerny op. 299 a tempo, Benjamin Achron. Here’s a better version of no 39: Op 299 no 39 Seon-Yong Hwang.

​@@geiryvindeskeland7208 I understand why pianists find the musical content uninteresting... Still if the tempi are to be played as indicated by true mathematical meaning of the sign ' = ', it's very irresponsible from the music editors never to say a word about how extremely difficult and most likely out of reach those tempi are, even for skilled pro pianists, considering that those etudes are supposed to be made for intermediate level students. Indeed why would top level pianists waste their time with this average quality academic material? For the students, you'll find much more realistic and musical tempi - still very fast - for instance in the Bürgmuller's or Berens' studies, where 'allegro molto' will be typically a quarter note = 144 - 168 (and not 208 - 216 like in Czerny's).

What is the correct translation then?

Curious to know. What’s the correct one?

@@thepianofoundation Mad velocity.

It is not wrong. The original full German title is Die Schule der Gelaufigkeit. 40 Uebungstucke um die Schnelligkeit der Finger zu entwickeln. This translates as The School of Fluency. 40 Exercises to develop the speed of the finger. The early German edition of 1840 prints the full French title underneath the German: Etude de la vélocité, 40 Exercises calculés a développer l'agilité des doigts. Translation: Study of Velocity. 40 Exercises calculated to develop the agility of the fingers. The French title is not wrong. It simply puts 'velocity/speed' into the main title and 'agility/fluency' into the subtitle. The English editions translated the French title, but omitted the subtitle.

@hitoall123 No, not impossible. There are several pianists who play from op 299 in Czerny’s tempo.

@@geiryvindeskeland7208 can you give an example? I will measure the tempo

PianothShaveck. You will find a link at the top of the comments section, where you will see the hands and metronome, video 4:44. He plays no. 1, 2 and 3. When you play it at Czerny’s tempo (on an old piano) The Key of Life Czerny Etude op 299 n. 4 «VERY FAST». Czerny op 299/4 at tempo - Asiya Korepanova Czerny Etude op 299 n. 5 REAL TEMPO. Czerny Etude op 299 n.1 REAL TEMPO! What if playing czerny’s piece an IN TEMPO? [Op. 299 No. 39] Czerny Etude op. 299 n. 6 REAL TEMPO! Czerny Etude op 299 n. 3 REAL TEMPO! Czerny Etude op 299 No. 34 Denis Zhdanov

@hit… The signature «@jorislejeune» : Le Pianiste was a Parisian paper on piano playing and music (from 1833 till 1835) and wrote negatively about the op. 299. They complained that ‘all studies require 800 notes per minute’, which is only true in single-beat». Here on YT I find a number of children, some of them younger than 10 years, playing from Czerny op. 299 faster than Wim Winters’ double beat tempo. Therefore we understand that something is wrong with the theory.

@hit… I am sorry, I should mentioned this too: Op 299 no. 34 Piano Etudes.

indeed this is junk, no phrasing, no breathe, no polyphonics on chords. junk midi

@@giordanopuglisi2890 They are exercises to develop finger speed, not musical compositions. Czerny never claimed to be Chopin.

martingauthier7377. I want to phrase myself in a polite manner, but I am a little bit tired of the many people who believe that one’s personal meaning and taste give the historically correct tempi. We should rely more on the old written sources + - 200 years old. martin ,quote: «The tempi indications make no sense». You are not correct, Czerny’s own MM make sense, and that’s because of the mans urge to compete. The signature «jorislejeune»: Le Pianiste was a Parisian paper on piano playing and music (1833 till 1835) and wrote negatively about Czerny, certainly about the op. 299. They complained that ‘all these studies require 800 notes per minute’, which is only true in single-beat. In the book «Beethoven» by Maynard Solomon, we read: Beethoven was concerned to maintain his preeminent position and regarded any accomplished pianist as a potential rival. In mid-1794, he wrote to Eleonore von Breuning of his «desire to embarrass» and «revenge myself on» the Viennese pianists, some of whom are my sworn enemies. The book also says that Beethoven was invited several times to private homes to compete against other pianists. Here we understand why Czerny’s quick MM numbers and Beethoven’s utterances make sense - the pianists were competitors! They competed to see who could impress the most with their virtuoso playing and demanding compositions. It was about imprssing colleagues, music journalists and the public. Czerny opus 299 in double beat tempo is so slow that it wouldn’t impress anyone. And the mention in Le Pianiste confirms that they played Czerny in single beat tempi. You are absolutely right - at double beat pace, tempo doesn’t match the Italian words for speed. «Double beat make sense», you say. Unfortunately, no they don’t, and I justify it like this: I got my first piano lesson in 1962. I have played a lot, but almost never practiced, I don’t have the patience. But when I heard Wim Winters’ op 299, no 1, I immediately realized that it can’t possibly be historically correct. After 50 minutes of practice, I reached double beat pace. Ancient sources tell of Czerny’s interest in the virtuoso. It is inconceivable tht, after 50 minutes of rehearsal, I reached the level of one of the greatest virtuosos 200 year ago, it is totally illogical, and an unforgivable disregard for the virtuoso level the pianists reached at that time. Simple logic also shows that double beat is hardly historically correct pace. It is from children and drunk people that we hear the truth. Now we are not going to drink, but hear the kids play. Here on KZfaq we find a number of videos of children, 7-12 years old, playing Chopin’s etudes much faster than the double beat pace. Chopin, the composer, was 20-22 years old when he composed the etudes. He had about 10 more years to reach a virtuoso technical level, and Wim Winters would have us to believe that Chopin played the etudes much slower than the kids! Completely illogical! martin, quote: «Many or most of these studies literally can’t be played that fast by any pianist, even by fhe greatest accomplished virtuosos». martin, I can write a list if you want. Finally, beware of Wim Winters. Sometimes he manipulates and censors. Whoever is right in their argument, does not need to manipulate and censor!

@@geiryvindeskeland7208 Yes, actually I’m very interested to hear Op.299 - all of it - performed by a REAL pianists (not a MIDI machine) at the ‘right’ tempo. Thank you!

Martin: «..all of it». I’m sorry, but I can’t. It is two complete series of opus 299, one is too slow and the other is MIDI. My son taught me to mention links in comments, but I forgot how to do it, therefore this cumbersome method, Martin, I apologize for it. As for «pianothshaveck» you will find a link at the top of the comments section, where you will see the hands and metronome, video 4:44. He plays no 1, 2 and 3. Czerny Etude op. 299 n. 4 VERY FAST!!! Czerny op 299/4 at tempo - Asiya Korepanova. Czerny Etude op 299 n.5 REAL TEMPO!!! Czerny Etude op.299 n.8 Czerny Etude op 299 No. 34 Denis Zhdanov «What if I playing czerny’s piece an IN TEMPO?» [op.299 No.39]

Ups, I forgot this one: «When you play it at Czerny’s tempo, Minkyu Kim

Czerny op 299 n 8 is played by «Piano Etudes»