Incredibly well stated. Thank you.

It's the weak men who hit women...

Very good post. The best one on this page. I adore the show, and apart from a couple of quibbles - Barbara Ruick is somewhat irritating , and too much of her music was dropped - I loved the film, and to me, Frank Sinatra leaving was a blessing. Never for a moment would you have believed that he was the big attraction that Billy must be for the story to be believable. He's the reason that Mrs. Mullins - who is also mad about him, has a successful business. Gordon McRae ticked that box.

Hey, see my comments. I said similar things but added that this is a tragic story - a cautionary tale about how abuse in a family is passed down from one generation to the next. Likely that the daughter will someday choose a mate that is also abusive.

Thank you for sharing. I have always loved Carousel.

A much better ending if you ask me

Musicals w/ Cheese The guy who wrote The play ferenc molner also wrote a book called the Paul Street boys which was basically lord the flies before lord the flies was and there was a musical adaptation of that story as well and it was kind of weird and it was in Hungarian and there’s other adaptations of the carousel story .

This year’s London Revival of Carousel at the Open Air Theatre in Regent’s Park has ended the same way with him not going to Heaven in the end and Julie moving on scorning him.

Came here to say this

In the movie version, they indirectly reveal that Jigger ended up in hell...

In the original play “Liliom” he does go straight to hell after hitting his daughter, and that’s how it ends.

I think you are missing the main point of the piece. It's all about forgiveness not punishment. And it's all about the effort Billy makes to rise above the situation, and to intervene when his daughter appears to be repeating his mistakes. Julie and Louise are made aware than in spite of everything he loved them both.

Billy doesn’t learn his lesson? He can’t even get into Heaven because he fucked up so bad.

It certainly was ;D

Yes. Yes I have.

Ikrrr

I think the revival overthought the ending, and by trying to please everyone took away the power of the piece. Billy, for all his flaws, is trying. He's doing the best he can - which may not be enough, but he's been forgiven for his flaws. He succeeds in letting Julie and Louise know that he truly loved them. They forgive him, as we do. Done.

#BestComment

She's a true talent.

I can totally see why this would be someone’s favorite musical, despite all the problematic stuff! I like a lot of problematic stuff myself! 👍

Yeah same haha

I wonder how it would feel to go into the Musical Carousel without the cultural baggage of the show being branded as a romance (“If I loved you” being it’s most beloved song and all), and simply seen as a piece of dark musical theater. 🎭

@@MusicalswithCheese I always wondered that too, Carousel is one those shows that hits you with reality like Next To Normal, Dear Evan Hansen, Les Miserable, Miss Saigon, Falsettos, Parade, and every Sondheim musical ever. I enjoyed these shows because I think there's something to relate to it but especially hits way too close home sometimes that I can't help get teary eyed at this.

Sondheim was Hammerstein's "pupil," not Rodgers'. Sondheim & Rodgers didn't get along very well, but they did produce one outstanding score together, for a musical called *Do I Hear a Waltz?* (1965).

Perhaps one day-- but my thoughts have grown a lot in almost a three year absence.

Carousel is an influential masterpiece.

Good job! Proud of you!

Once theatre trash-- always theatre trash.

For the moment!

Good one!

"And I love you random citizen!"

It was Rodgers' favorite of his own works (the guy who wrote the music). I'm not sure that it was Hammerstein's (the guy who wrote the dialogue and lyrics), or if he even expressed a preference for one if his works over all others.

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Hyperbolic clickbait titles do gotta be hyperbolic clickbait

Many of these videos were made when I was very young- very young and very stupid. I made a lot of content with an edge-lord attitude that was very common at the time meant to clash a bit with the topics being approached for review, and a lot of it has not aged well at all. I wanted to control the narrative around myself a bit, so I privatized a lot of videos to review whether I want that type of content out for the world to see. I hope to review and post re-edited versions someday.

Now don't tell me that "The Idiot" would not make a great musical!

All of the lesser-known Rodgers & Hammerstein musicals (including *Allegro, Me & Juliet, Pipe Dream,* and *Flower Drum Song)* are worth a look and/or a listen.

We are all impressed with your pitifully short attention span. Maybe you can work on shortening it even further? God, I envy you.

You’re going to love this Friday.

YUSH

Yes, I was really dissapointed with the story as well.

Music is gorgeous. Story is not great.

@@heatheralice89Why were you dissapointed in the story?? In real life, we have to do quite a lot of forgiving along the way, or we're the ones who suffer the most.

@@jochenstossberg5427 My dear, I watch movies to escape from real life.

You can't judge the play by the movie which is generally considered inferior though I think framing Billy's story by opening in the afterlife is good. The ballet is not a dream but the movie makes it look like one. The best stage version was the 1997 tour with Patrick Wilson; that director was making points about violence in society, even daughter Louise in the ballet physically struggles with the carnival boy and later Billy gives the most anguished cry of "no!' when he hits his daughter and Julie says it's possible for a slap not to hurt. That Billy tries to make amends for his messing up his return to Earth by gently encouraging his daughter to seek her own path and finally confessing to Julie that he loved her and you see in Julie's face that she was never really sure until then. Irredeemable? We must decide. Hammerstein wasn't sure he liked Billy until he wrote The Soliloquy!...The "carousel" may be old fashioned symbolism but it's about life, ups, downs, repeating circles, jerky stops and starts. Revival imagery ha had huge circular clocks, moons, half moon hills...that old circle of life, labor, love, babies, death...the story has been tweaked in revivals even cutting the implication of repeated abuse, more just one case...(please Star keeper, no!Hugh Jackman's voice is really too rough and unpleasant on these songs, he did it in concert. I don't want him to revive or remake it--and he's too old!...) But I digress: Even the somewhat irrelevant chorus pieces have violent imagery if you pay attention: June is Busting? The Whalers song, Stonecutters, Clambake; society is rough, harsh! Julie's What's The Use of Wond'rin' is a sad song of how women used to be resigned to stick with men no matter what, kind of ahead of its time...Granted, there are creaky nods to operetta and lengthy irrelevancies but I've seen these tweaked. Even the subplot of Enoch and Carrie can be seen as stifling; he's the possessive jealous breadwinner and she's the babymaker. The movie however turns Billy's cowardy suicide into an accident and cuts Carrie telling Julie she's better off without him when Billy's just died and is lying there and Julie finally tells dead Billy he was bad...I agree some of Carousel is problematic but to me less so than My Fair Lady and Kiss Me Kate and the music and granted "dated" attempts to addres serious themes of life and death make it worth reworking...yes, change the Carousel of Life, break the patterns of violence and repeating the mistakes of past generations. IMHO!

Enoch and David don't strike me as being "villainous".

Enoch Snow becomes a snob who passes that false sense of social class to his children... in addition he pretty much keeps Carrie as a baby machine. David Bascombe runs the mill... and keeps his female employees like chattel slaves (with the threat of unemployment being the main thing to keep them in line). Snow clearly is on his way (and maybe already there by the end) to becoming the new Bascombe. Maintaining this status quo is only going to produce more Billys and Julies... (Though hopefully Louise will break out of the cycle).

I’m working through copyright and re-editing a few of them!

According to Vulture "the problem is not that Billy hits his wife, Julie, but that Julie, seemingly, makes an excuse for him, thereby teaching their daughter Louise that abuse is a form of love."

@@lilycarolinesings Idk anything about this musical I just came here because someone referenced it, but to me that just sounds like a FUCKED UP THING to say

We will have to see

Yeah... Cut that infuriating "it never hurt at all" scene, or at least make it clear the lady's just plain off her head. And send Billy down below or keep him stuck with the starkeepers after his day back on earth. Because no matter his intentions, the man was just no good.

I would like to-- but there's copyright issues with that one! :c

Hugh would never be able to sing the score well enough - and he's now about twenty years to old for it.

That's how I'm here from the comments

Ok

👍

We are trying to figure out who we are! 🤷🏽‍♀️

"Blow High, Blow Low" also might offend modern sensibilities with its joyful celebration of murdering whales.

-Insert Next to Normal song here-

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Agreed! We should look back on history and it’s art and see it within its context. But also, I think that it can be fun to look at our past and point out how far we’ve come!