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We Found a WASP INFESTED Honda Rancher in West Virginia - Sitting 8 Years - Will it Run again?

  Рет қаралды 810,812

CarsandCameras

CarsandCameras

2 жыл бұрын

Charles spent some time visiting family in West Virginia, and he brought home this 4 wheeler! A 2004 Honda Rancher AT, powered by a 400cc engine and 5 speed automatic transmission. This old Honda ATV was sitting outside for 8 years before Charles bought it and brought it home!
Thanks for Watching!
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Пікірлер: 876
@FirstGenDiesel
@FirstGenDiesel 2 жыл бұрын
Been watching for years, it seemed awkward at first adding a third person to the mix, but this episode has convinced me that you guys make a great combo for entertainment! Thanks for all the smiles over the years!
@J.Henderson216
@J.Henderson216 2 жыл бұрын
Id rather him then the other dude
@chrismacdonald8846
@chrismacdonald8846 2 жыл бұрын
That was wicked funny with John got hit with the wasps nest that was funny I laughed my ass off
@jrkbgk1111
@jrkbgk1111 2 жыл бұрын
@@J.Henderson216 I definitely agree, I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he definitely doesn't have the mechanical knowledge or experience Charles has, and just didn't really fit the channel in my opinion. Also, in my opinion it seemed like it was more of a joke to him than a full time, serious "job" so to speak. These 3 can joke and have a good time, but also make light of the shitty situations, all while still understanding the "seriousness" required for the "job". Charles has been a great addition to the channel in my opinion. (I know I said "in my opinion" quite a few times, but unfortunately you have to in today's society, otherwise everyone gets offended and butthurt."
@danmackintosh6325
@danmackintosh6325 2 жыл бұрын
@@jrkbgk1111 "everyone" gets offended and butthurt? I have to take a moment to call you out on that inaccurate statement. You, sir, should have added one final "IMO" to the post to make it truly snowflake proof (The preceding rhetorical question & smartass reply, I should point out, were formed entirely of my personal opinion) lol sorry man couldn't help my stupid ass...
@Buchta179
@Buchta179 2 жыл бұрын
Charles spraying the starting fluid then bopping the camera with it has my sides hurting from laughing so hard!
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGo.html54
@CarsandCameras
@CarsandCameras 2 жыл бұрын
This tired looking four wheeler turned into quite the score!
@zeezeerhydon7083
@zeezeerhydon7083 2 жыл бұрын
These honda ATV's are absolute tanks. We've had a rubicon for years on our family farm and we've never had an issue.
@RasmusNielsen32
@RasmusNielsen32 2 жыл бұрын
It would be cool to see a gearbox like that on a gokart.!
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGs.html
@CarterCassedy
@CarterCassedy 2 жыл бұрын
Yup
@pookysdad4884
@pookysdad4884 2 жыл бұрын
Less tired looking than the Hon-Dookie, which I HOPE has been DISMANTLED.
@chillycheeze2207
@chillycheeze2207 2 жыл бұрын
Man, charles is such a great addition to the carsandcameras crew, when he did the hot sause mouth spray i cracked up🤣
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGs.htmlre
@hayden1184
@hayden1184 2 жыл бұрын
Charles keep up the good work mate, honestly you add so much to CAC! big respect
@nadieselgirl
@nadieselgirl 2 жыл бұрын
I hope Charles keeps hanging with yall, he is some comic relief and handsome too.
@ericsilverware4561
@ericsilverware4561 2 жыл бұрын
Man I was just about to say the same thing he is such a great addition
@danielsanchez-rubio8500
@danielsanchez-rubio8500 2 жыл бұрын
KEEP CHARLES AROUND!! Totally agree bro, he’s too funny
@SharkysGarageRCandMore
@SharkysGarageRCandMore 2 жыл бұрын
I probably laughed harder than i should have when john got hit with the wasp nest out of the exhaust...
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGs.html
@theeturnone
@theeturnone 2 жыл бұрын
yeah--------> #metoo
@RoryRips
@RoryRips 2 жыл бұрын
OMG Its honestly the hardest I have ever laughed at a youtube video! Hahaha
@jilllucier6341
@jilllucier6341 Жыл бұрын
Yeah🤣🤣🤣
@danburch9989
@danburch9989 2 жыл бұрын
5000 mi 450 hrs is about 11 mph. Lots of trail riding. Great find! That Honda having an explosive fart with the wasp nests was as hilarious as it can get. I don't know what you paid for it, but around here, even total junked 4-wheelers are expensive. They add the word "vintage" to the description to justify over pricing the junk they sell around here.
@mikepro-ww5fg
@mikepro-ww5fg 2 жыл бұрын
Same here market has gone to shit
@dragonrider9244
@dragonrider9244 2 жыл бұрын
Charles is to freaking funny, since you guys added him they fun is cranked up 1,000% Love this channel
@Yodamine345
@Yodamine345 2 жыл бұрын
Charles is a nut, i love it.
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGs.htmlt
@dwayne1655
@dwayne1655 2 жыл бұрын
This has to be my favourite episode so far, 🤣 from Charles spraying hot sauce like deodorant or breath freshener, Ike's reaction to the battery still being connected and john being hit with nest, it all had me in tears I was laughing so hard.
@nybergsgarage
@nybergsgarage 2 жыл бұрын
now, since when does sitting for eight years ever make a honda not want to run? great find there, my brother has a slightly older version of it, it's even yellow.
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGs.htmlgg
@nybergsgarage
@nybergsgarage 2 жыл бұрын
@@alrezgarage9046 clean the old gas out. I guess I meant in the sense that hondas are so bulletproof they aren't going to have any BIG issues just from sitting.
@alrezgarage9046
@alrezgarage9046 2 жыл бұрын
@@nybergsgarage bulletproof indeed
@Yippa391
@Yippa391 2 жыл бұрын
Why was it even abandoned
@nybergsgarage
@nybergsgarage 2 жыл бұрын
@@Yippa391 who knows. somebody lost interest maybe.
@theortegafamily3709
@theortegafamily3709 2 жыл бұрын
Wee met them today !! Charles is so funny well all of them but he add something special to the crew !!! Glad we could meet y’all guys .
@shelbyrybolt3279
@shelbyrybolt3279 2 жыл бұрын
I’m glad everything worked out on that for Charle, he’s always in high spirits and seams like a good person. Good people having good things happen for a change lol
@dukiemoto8676
@dukiemoto8676 2 жыл бұрын
This episode was gold👍🏼 please don’t ever get rid of Charles, and Charles don’t ever change your honest, funny, hardworking lovable self😂
@IngenTechNational
@IngenTechNational 2 жыл бұрын
My dad has that same type of 4 wheeler it is a 1998 model 400 ever since I can remember and we used it a lot and still today I can go out hit the starter and fires right up! All that has ever been done to it I believe is the oil, tires, voltage regulator, plastic parts and that is pretty much it I believe! Honda is the way to go!!
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGs.html
@thestonesaver6345
@thestonesaver6345 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve always thought Charles had to be an Appalachia boy. I’m glad to hear that not only was I correct, but he’s an ‘almost heaven’ WV boy like myself!
@shotgunz1248
@shotgunz1248 2 жыл бұрын
What part of west by god u live
@thestonesaver6345
@thestonesaver6345 2 жыл бұрын
@@shotgunz1248 from Braxton county. Heaters Wv.
@GT350_R
@GT350_R 2 жыл бұрын
im currently in Mercer County WV at speedway
@KelBShobra
@KelBShobra 2 жыл бұрын
16:59 instead of buying a whole headlight repair kit just buy brasso it works amazingly
@mikkellarsen8715
@mikkellarsen8715 2 жыл бұрын
Would be amazing to see the rest of Charles 4 wheeler get the same cleaning as the carb. Like taken apart and prober cleaned. Good vid 👍
@noriaki2448
@noriaki2448 2 жыл бұрын
Charles reminds me of my freind Dallas one of the best people to befriends with and to enjoy wasting time with
@subymtdan6137
@subymtdan6137 2 жыл бұрын
The addition of Charles to your channel has Amplified it 100%. He has a younger guys attitude of not being afraid of going out and testing it. And he seems to be a jack-of-all-trades. Im 47 years old and have no idea why I watch a bunch of guys make go karts that I will never get on or try and make. But I've been watching your channel for at least 4 years and it's one of my top 10 channels. Keep it up guys.
@ghomerhust
@ghomerhust 2 жыл бұрын
"That's rougher than a stucco bathtub" - Charles C&C 2021
@waynerowlinson6177
@waynerowlinson6177 2 жыл бұрын
This was a good, light-hearted episode (even more than usual). Nice work!
@mitchelladams1069
@mitchelladams1069 2 жыл бұрын
Wish i had friends like yall, i got into mini bikes and four wheelers at a young age, and now i have 3 mini bikes and my son has a small atv we are always watching and upgrading weekly
@WreckedRevival
@WreckedRevival 2 жыл бұрын
Never tried it myself but I've always heard spinning tanks with BB's in it works really good for those rusty jobs. Could watch you guys all day..feels the same as when my buddies and I are messing around with stuff lol🤘
@leonhart2452
@leonhart2452 2 жыл бұрын
Uni filters sells air filter foam in sheets. Cut just a bit more than the long way of the metal tube and with a bit of overlap going around. Use a 50/50 mix of gas and motor oil to wet the foam. Once wet squeeze out most of the oil mix. I have used this on most of my bikes. Easy to remove, clean, oil and reinstall. The K&N ok oil stuff is to thick even for K&N filters. Richens the mix too much.
@fullautoshotty
@fullautoshotty 2 жыл бұрын
Watching you guys over the past year has made me fall in love with mini bikes..i just bought my first budget mini bike recently, and can't wait to get her fixed up and rippin!
@stevebarnette
@stevebarnette 2 жыл бұрын
I remember seeing commercials for this four wheeler when I was a kid. Very cool to see you guys get one. There are a lot of time lapses on KZfaq, but that carb rebuild time lapse from this video was really well done. Great video.
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGn.html
@robertsalyers1351
@robertsalyers1351 6 ай бұрын
This makes me appreciative of the Honda Rancher 420 4x4 es that I have now. This was a great video to watch
@jameshooks7452
@jameshooks7452 2 жыл бұрын
I enjoy this channel. It's one of the best. Charles is a great addition. 👍
@sawyerbennett8227
@sawyerbennett8227 2 жыл бұрын
Finally a fourwheeler. Now we're talking. Right down my alley
@SeaPro360
@SeaPro360 Жыл бұрын
Great channel men. It is encouraging when y'all get these old engines (sitting for years) running. I would love to know what the cylinder walls look like and if things really need to be fogged before layup. The Hornet wasn't, and the yellow Wasp 4 wheeler wasn't. Gas, battery and go. But like you say, they are Hondas.
@larrydavidson3402
@larrydavidson3402 2 жыл бұрын
You three have one heck of a lotta fun. Wasp incidents added a lot to the fun. Ike does a good job on that 3 wheeler. Charles is no slouch on that 4 wheeler either. That runs great.
@markmckeachnie4484
@markmckeachnie4484 2 жыл бұрын
Charoles go him something lol , cut it up and make a go kart out of it . He such a great addition to cars and cameras . Great episode
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGs.html
@SWEET-2381
@SWEET-2381 2 жыл бұрын
You guys are freaking awesome!! I enjoyed this episode very much!! I got to have fun like that yesterday working on my friend's car
@n20cpri
@n20cpri 2 жыл бұрын
Dude I watched that power-slide a million times! That was SICK!
@600wheel
@600wheel 2 жыл бұрын
On your off-road course there’s that one log just before you go through the water that sticks out like a spear my recommendation is you chainsaw that off either that or upload everything ALL the carnage lol!
@MostlyElectrolytes
@MostlyElectrolytes 2 жыл бұрын
Congrats on a million subs! Been watching you all since about 100k....super happy for you!
@jimmywilson1388
@jimmywilson1388 2 жыл бұрын
Lmfao Charles cracks me up! Lmfao 🤣 The wasp nest got me too, omg I’m cryin!
@jimbobucky8500
@jimbobucky8500 2 жыл бұрын
Charles is a good addition to the craziness…glad to see you on there !
@NTromb
@NTromb 2 жыл бұрын
You guys make a great team and Charles is so ecstatic with his new toy
@shaundonahue4621
@shaundonahue4621 Жыл бұрын
Good job guys! I always liked the Rancher model. As always, your onscreen chemistry is wonderful.
@SnowstormGaming
@SnowstormGaming 2 жыл бұрын
love the channel! one tip, fill old rusty tanks with evaporust for a day or 2. did that for my 1971 honda sl70 and it cleaned the tank up really nicely.
@doinkz4sale406
@doinkz4sale406 2 жыл бұрын
It's been a while since I see a cars and camera video I love you guys you guys are so amazing and make such amazing videos
@SWEET-2381
@SWEET-2381 2 жыл бұрын
Charles is definitely a great addition to the channel!
@captainfishyy
@captainfishyy Жыл бұрын
I'm from West Virginia and I love to see these kind of videos! Keep up the good work!
@daltonengland2127
@daltonengland2127 2 жыл бұрын
You should put some big mud tires on the fourwheeler for the mud holes would love some mudding vids
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIFp.html
@chrisgenovese8188
@chrisgenovese8188 2 жыл бұрын
You guys are a riot! This was all too good to even script!
@Tacosgalore24
@Tacosgalore24 2 жыл бұрын
A most excellent acquisition, and especially for Charles to have his very own unit. Let's see some work on that kei truck! Maybe workshop a few ideas and let the c&c community vote on various aspects of the build
@trumpfancardanostakepool4737
@trumpfancardanostakepool4737 2 жыл бұрын
So cool. I grew up on my dad's Honda 4 wheelers. The last one I used had the button shift, but with reverse was obtained by pulling the brake lever while holding in a nearby button, then the normal downshift button would send it into reverse.
@timwilkinson2797
@timwilkinson2797 2 жыл бұрын
I Like Chalie !! Hes an ace !! Seems like a really great bloke ( Same age as my son -- Just wonna say Good Luck too you Chhie - You ever make your own channel Love to be part of it !! Cheers Charlie Form the *UK*
@Day12My
@Day12My 2 жыл бұрын
Glad I found this channel. These guys are pretty chill.
@stellacatfish
@stellacatfish 2 жыл бұрын
If anyone deserves a break. It would be Charles. Great addition to the team !!
@jayhouston1614
@jayhouston1614 2 жыл бұрын
awesome sauce! now i know and understand why one should clean a carb! thanks for sharing!
@glencalhoun9544
@glencalhoun9544 2 жыл бұрын
Thats great. I Love that honda 4wheeler. I run a Yamaha timberwolf 250 2 wheel drive. But i love that thing. It moves great since I rejetted the carb & installed a high current coil. Its deff fun!!!
@tedsamuels3203
@tedsamuels3203 2 жыл бұрын
This video was awesome guys. 👌 THANKS for sharing 👍
@phillip.9524
@phillip.9524 2 жыл бұрын
That is so cool on the air filter I just did the same to my YMF 250 Yamaha yesterday only micro fibre cloth and cable ties. It had not been started for 12 months drained the carb and fresh fuel with some areostart.
@maxman1244
@maxman1244 2 жыл бұрын
you 3 are the quintessential trio for all of my internal-combustion related entertainment
@ThingsWithMotors
@ThingsWithMotors 2 жыл бұрын
Please do more stuff like this! I love the old Honda’s !
@Vermontwalleyeguy12.56
@Vermontwalleyeguy12.56 2 жыл бұрын
It’s a Honda and it’s carbureted it’ll never die my bro’s Honda rancher is almost 22 years old and still runs great! I had to fix the neutral light so it starts in any gear but it doesn’t go out know!!
@savagecerealkilla
@savagecerealkilla 2 жыл бұрын
Charles is a great addition fits right in like a glove !
@Devilman7420
@Devilman7420 2 жыл бұрын
Got a 04 Rancher es from a old guy that kept it in a barn and never rode it. 60 hours on it with break in oil still in it and clean as hell. 'get it running and it's yours.' $40 carb and it's a champ.
@JoeyV34
@JoeyV34 2 жыл бұрын
Love this channel, thank you guys for the content
@landengreen6982
@landengreen6982 2 жыл бұрын
Charles, you're hilarious. Nice 4 wheeler score buddy! Enjoy riding it.
@JohnHill-jm7tm
@JohnHill-jm7tm 2 жыл бұрын
Always loving your videos. Charles is an awesome addition to your channel. This Old Man enjoying. 🛵🧔💝
@FarmerFpv
@FarmerFpv 2 жыл бұрын
That Wasp nest flying out the exhaust at poor John had me laughing so hard, sorry John, lol.
@reesegaster1611
@reesegaster1611 2 жыл бұрын
Finally a full quad on the channel, loved the vid!!! Mud build for business and new trails on the property🤔🤔🤔
@jrkbgk1111
@jrkbgk1111 2 жыл бұрын
I definitely gotta say it's nice to see Ike back up and at it doing it like he never broke his shoulder 💜💜💜
@kellytaylor3915
@kellytaylor3915 2 жыл бұрын
I agree about Charles. Well done Guys!!! I would jet the yellow one bigger they always were to lean and cold starts will be better. Plus bigger battery cables. And a the best battery you can find to put in it and buy a whole fleet of Battery Tenders and run them all off of a solar panel system and keep them charged and keep it Green.
@bryduhbikeguy
@bryduhbikeguy 2 жыл бұрын
It's got wings on the plastic,nests everywhere : 'Humble Bee',as Charles is quite so chill,even when getting fired upon by a bees nest cannon,or 'Yellow Jacket' as you know he's going to buzz down every trail?
@jimc2298
@jimc2298 2 жыл бұрын
Charles rockin Cooper's sticker on the truck. Niiicccceee
@schalkvanheerden837
@schalkvanheerden837 2 жыл бұрын
Firstly, your great Charles, hot sauce works man. Secondly, Couldn't stop laughing when Ike shot that wasp nest at John! Glad you didn't get stung John. And what a great find, i hope you guys gonna beef it up a tad more!😉 Come on, it'll be fine. Just don't let Ike loose on the thing. Honestly, you guys just keep on amazing me. I got space to play with offroad toys, but sadly no toys. I'm saving up to buy some merch, exchange rate is killing me. Anyway, keep going, we love you guys!
@paulfellows2094
@paulfellows2094 2 жыл бұрын
hi guys love the quad awesome find love your videos keep them coming your great to watch
@junkironjoe3460
@junkironjoe3460 2 жыл бұрын
Is Charles wearing the cap that he found at one of Ike's houses?
@jasonpetrich4141
@jasonpetrich4141 2 жыл бұрын
Ooooohhh man !!! Lol 😆 when Charles was talking about buying the quad with a sock for an air filter. I thought oh no 😢 I have the exact filter right now! With said sock. Has been on my 300ex for I think like 4 yrs now!!! Oh boy it works great though.
@jamesglenn2006
@jamesglenn2006 2 жыл бұрын
"We got reverse on CarsandCameras" I just came back from a trek on my Cars and Cameras inspired '94 Sportsman 400 , 420 engine swap that I couldn't be happier with. I found out pretty quick that the Scrambler & Sportsman have different gear boxes but it works so good. I love me some CarsandCameras 👍
@robinmurphy3085
@robinmurphy3085 2 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of hunting with my dad and finding an old Suzuki 250 dirt bike abandoned in the woods . The oil mixer had gone out and Galled the piston. $80 and mixed my own gas and oil and road it for years!! Cool old machine!! Have fun!
@arlenegage9873
@arlenegage9873 2 жыл бұрын
Love y'all..am an oldie, but remember my first 4 wheeler ride on the farm!!
@officialscorpio6355
@officialscorpio6355 2 жыл бұрын
this video was to good laughing the whole time, great content guys!
@sirrick38
@sirrick38 2 жыл бұрын
great video guys laughed so hard at the back fire lol
@themoelman
@themoelman 2 жыл бұрын
love quads - glad yall doin this one
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGl.htmlr
@corbinrobbins8763
@corbinrobbins8763 Жыл бұрын
Looks like good friends having a good time! Good luck.
@Marc180sx
@Marc180sx 2 жыл бұрын
My god Charles is bloody hilarious!!
@Thunder_Bear_mg
@Thunder_Bear_mg 2 жыл бұрын
Funny and entertaining episode. Thanks guys!
@Carvino
@Carvino 11 ай бұрын
I love how "human" y'all are in your videos Im always laughing and learning at the same time
@fourbyfourer
@fourbyfourer 2 жыл бұрын
I have to say, I have owned many Honda three wheelers over the years and I had a 200, and I would've bet money on the 200 winning against the four wheeler. I was very impressed with Charles' riding. And I have to say, Charles seems like a real nice guy, I like the dude.
@wyattdavis379
@wyattdavis379 2 жыл бұрын
I have an 05 rancher 350 it has a ton of hours and miles runs amazing and plows snow great too I love it.
@raymondcoggins297
@raymondcoggins297 2 жыл бұрын
Great video lmao when the wasp nest flew outa the tailpipe great 4 wheeler
@jacobuscoetzee6689
@jacobuscoetzee6689 2 жыл бұрын
Charles's family probably kicking themselves seeing how easy he got it running. Seeing John get hit by those wasp nests was pretty hilarious and it's not like he didn't know they were ready just waiting to do Wiley E Coyote acme move
@badcompany3057
@badcompany3057 2 жыл бұрын
Good crew and good content, enjoyed it
@tkskagen
@tkskagen 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely best challen subscription choice EVER!
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGc.htmly
@edwardweisenburg16
@edwardweisenburg16 2 жыл бұрын
Aw you guys are hilarious 😄. Love this channel 💖
@savagecerealkilla
@savagecerealkilla 2 жыл бұрын
You guys should venture more into four-wheelers restores as well ! I know id love to see that !
@kevinashby3784
@kevinashby3784 2 жыл бұрын
I live about 10 miles form the gulf coast. My 2003 rancher sat up for Monroe than 10 yrs. I cleaned the carb like you did. Changes filters and plug and fluids. Runs basically like new. I don’t even use the choke.
@Sammyadams432
@Sammyadams432 2 жыл бұрын
I just wanna hear Ike talk about propane and propane accessories! 😂😂
@scottinWV
@scottinWV 2 жыл бұрын
WV wasps are violent! I've been stung by enough to know.
@Hitycooking
@Hitycooking 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mrqCdcyJnKimnIGs.html
@AndToTheRepublic4WhichItStands
@AndToTheRepublic4WhichItStands 2 жыл бұрын
I live in wv AND LOVE these wv videos. Please keep them coming.
@photondebuger45
@photondebuger45 2 жыл бұрын
This channel feels like the hagerty of go karts and I love it
@cartoonist1975
@cartoonist1975 2 жыл бұрын
Charles ! Like I said before is the perfect fit to the C&C team .
@jhawk1985
@jhawk1985 2 жыл бұрын
When the old honda back fired 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 oh good laugh guys. I needed that 👍
@lowryder3209
@lowryder3209 2 жыл бұрын
Oh my gosh my grandpa used to have one of these! This was one of the first vehicles I ever drove!
@kygunworks4982
@kygunworks4982 2 жыл бұрын
Normally honda ignition switches just have plugs that you can unplug and just hook them together, did it on 300s that folks lost the keys too all the time
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