I was thinking pretty much the same.

​@@jojohnson215copycat

​@@jojohnson215yes I said to myself just the other day....the phasing will be the issue.

I've only got a rudimentary understanding and I'm impressed.

Does this mean the cam is going to open the valves in the original firing order? While the pistons are all in the wrong place?

I would like to see an I8 actually. It sounds close enough to a V8 and would likely be easier to pull off albeit harder to fit in a car. They made an I6 this way at one point.

@@DJ2226they have also welded 4 engines together to make an i16

yessssssssssssss

Pretty sure this is what Triumph did with the Stag.

They would have to make a new V8 crankshaft. They should weld 2 blocks in a V8 conflagration. but combine engines after welding with 2 planetary ans 1 sun gear like the old Chrysler multi bank engines. They could use both engine and cams.

Not to do list, engineers taking notes furiously.

Most of ladas r&d was set on how to cheapen down fiats r&d

Bold of you to assume Lada has a r&d department.

They had one? lol

Plot twist garage 54 is ladas r&d facility

Yeah that would be cool too

I think they’ve done this before? Either way, it makes the engine really hard to start (because 2 cylinders are building compression and hitting tdc at the same time) and it doesn’t want to idle for the same reason and the fact that it only gets one firing impulse per complete crankshaft rotation.

Or all 4 at once

I believe that might sound like a triumph twin?

Harley Davidson mod!

This is similar to Ford's Voodoo engine setup here. Driving4answers has made a video about this and the engine has both Primary and Secondary imbalances, hence the intense vibration engine operations.

Yea maybe place crank end to end

You know what is more awesome? The fact that these Lada motors still exist and work in 2024. :) In a hypothetical doomsday scenario, Lada Nivas, Rivas, Toyota Camrys, Honda Civics/Accords and Buick Centurys will be the only cars on the road in the future with a few Nissan cars and diesel Chevy trucks. Similar to roaches (but in a good way), these cars never die.

@@thatguyalex2835 So true

Nissans are pretty unreliable from what I hear. Not that you'd be too likely to be driving anything for very long in a real doomsday scenario. Probably wouldn't be viable after about a year tops.

With BMI, I'm surprised that our friends aren't speaking like King Charles - yet.

@@thatguyalex2835 You missed some south american cars, we have a lot of cars here that are very bulletproof.

With the normal arrangement where the middle two pistons move in the opposite direction to the end two pistons, the rocking couple produced by the front two cylinders cancels out the rocking couple of the rear cylinders. With the 1,2,3,4 firing order the two rocking couples add together instead of cancelling each other out. This is the cause of the increased vibration.

@@cedriclynchcan’t we use offset weights on the flywheel to fix that

@@miguelgameiro8063 The problem is that the unbalanced force is rotating in the opposite direction to the rotation of the crankshaft. It can be balanced with a weighted shaft geared to turn in the opposite direction; this is quite a common practice in motorcycle engines and has been used in some car engines such as the Ford V4 of the 1960s and 70s. This has a crankshaft with four throws so as to give equal 180 degree firing intervals, giving also a mechanical imbalance that could only be corrected by the use of a weighted shaft turning in the opposite direction.

@@cedriclynch balancing shafts fix this ? Or am I getting this wrong?

@@miguelgameiro8063 Yes, it is possible to fix almost any balance problem with a balancing shaft (or sometimes two shafts) turning in the opposite direction to the crankshaft. There is another problem that affects an inline four-cylinder engine because the connecting rods are of finite length and so the acceleration of the pistons is greater at the top of the stroke than it is at the bottom. Most makers overcome this by using rubber mounts, but one or two have added two weighted balance shafts turning in opposite directions to each other at twice the speed of the crankshaft.

It's amazing what can be done if you just do it and not follow the it wont work theory these guys do it differently than any other youtube channel I watch

@@scoobysean555 Yeah, they use most basic way to make it work and it actually works.

They do that in the motorcycle world.

@@Flies2FLLSuzuki does that correct? Isn’t that why they sound very very similar to a crossplane V8?

​@@TheMrDariusYamaha R1

@@TheMrDarius I think they sound vaguely like a V8. Yamaha does this on the YZF-R1, if I remember correctly.

They turned a cross plane into a flat plane crank.

😂

Some motorcycles are actually set up that way. They call it a "big bang" engine.

They tried a full 4 cylinder - 1 cylinder setup previously. It wasn't very successful. All 4 cylinders sucking in at the same time caused a huge restriction as to how much air they could draw in. A 2-2 setup may work better though.

@@iunnox666 yeah I have heard some refer to them as a “twingle” too (in two cylinder versions)

@@jackt883 yes I did see that. A 1/4 and 2/3 would be quite easy in comparison as they do not even need to touch the pistons, oil pan, crank, etc. Just rearrange the cam timing (cut and reweld) and ignition timing. Simple for Garage 54. 107%

Yeah that's true. 1 & 4 with 2 & 3. Bet it'd sound fantastic. 😂 Proper thumper.@@baby-sharkgto4902

already done

You mean 1+2+3+4?

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ebqHiMahrbfKd6M.htmlsi=DV_J6hEi33uI6UzG

Already done, was just a giant 1 cylinder engine with 4 pistons

It dates from 3 bearing model t type engines. There was, to say the least, a bit of flex potential in those cranks. The inner to outer close, outer to inner far pattern of 1342 used running load to counteract rocking couple in those unsupported webs. 1234 would have increased that "whip" between odd/even unsupported webs, not so good with the old spaghetti cranks, lol.

@@ludditeneaderthal That's the reason why all four cylinders have that firing order

@@lesklower7281 it has nothing to do with vibration, or "smooth running" though. It's longevity. A 180 degree flat plane crank doesn't care which 2 of the 4 throws are which phase, just so long as every next fire is opposed to the last. That can be balanced no matter what. Crank flex (and bearing journal/web) longevity is why the traditional 4 banger crank is split 14/23 for phases, and runs 1342 FO (inner close, outer far). You can overbuild a crank/mains combo to withstand 1234 and give long life, but there's no real advantage gained, and LOTS of disadvantage to doing so

@@ludditeneaderthalthat's why it called harmony balancing. even with harmonic balancer slapped on. same principle but different physic and logic

@HighAway rocking couple has nothing to do with harmonics, nor balance.

Same!!

Yeah it would be Awesome to see the parts made just right for piston to valve timing too, then Dyno this to a stock engine.

I was wondering if that was a mistake because the typo firing order is basically one after another but in reverse.

The firing order 1432 would make it fire in sequence backwards.

I was wondering if that was an error or just how Ladas normally work. :)

Thay already did that one

@@JohnSmith-ef8nr ok thanks, I'll have to find it.

My exact thinking

They're going for a specific clearance on an engine designed to run just long enough to make a video 😃

Shimming automotive engine bearings that way used to be more common, so for a car built under communism, I wouldn't be surprised if they were using shims at the factory. Probly not aluminum foil…unless shim stock supplies were low.

Good catch.

That's NOT the firing order. That's just the way coils were labeled. Look up the actual firing order.

I haven't watched it much, but The Grand Tour is basically what Top Gear was.

Eith rear steering

They already did that

Look up the 1 stroke engine.

Why would there be no wave with 1-4-3-2? It is firing in a line as well just the other way, correct?

​@@1592159you're wrong , it doesn't make harmonic oscillations. The other issue with 1234 is how the pressure waves move in the intake manifold

@@damienfournier1157 causes twisting and untwisting...as for pressure waves....think that through for a bit

Cutting and welding the crank will do that long before the vibration does

@@1592159 The title is incorrect, the original firing order is 1-3-4-2. You can see that when they point out that it's cast into the engine block.

dont forget to change your oil

Firing order changes as your oil gets dirtier

Of course. Also it does usually change on tuesdays and fridays. WTF?

I noticed the same

In Russia it's different

Wouldn't more vibration = parasitic losses?

Came here to say this but glad you already did. I doubt the welding of the crankshaft made any difference in vibration they would notice in that old car at them low rpms. It's the rocking motion causing the vibration and that's why firing orders are how that are. Like you stated power and sound won't be changed it's still the same cylinders doing the same work at the same speed

The rocking couple is due to first order balance, not second. In a standard inline 4, primary balance is perfect, but secondary balance is as bad as possible, as all the cylinders are at either tdc or bdc, or within the middle of the stroke at any time. The second order balance with what has been done in this video is no better and no worse, however, since outside pistons are pushing in opposite directions they try to rotate the engine, the middle two pistons combat these forces slightly, but not entirely. In the case of an inline three, second order balance is perfect, but the rocking couple still exists.

@@iunnox666 Marginally sure, but it wouldn't be anything overly significant. Balance shafts that can fix these sorts of vibration end up taking a lot more energy to run then they save. If there was a lot of energy lost it'd be seen in what absorbs the energy, the engine mounts. Since these aren't cooled they'd end up overheating very quickly if the amount of energy lost was significant.

@@isaacsmith5489 I think that is wrong. In this crankshaft, the lobes are still symmetrical, so first order vibration is no different. The imbalance comes due to second order vibration, which is caused by the fact that a piston moving from TDC moves downward quicker than a piston moving upward from BDC. Normally this canceles out, but since cylinders fire down the line, the first two induce second order, then the next two, and then back to the first pair. This induces rocking along a transverse axis, or an up and down motion of the output shaft.

You could also try looking for Fiat 124, as these Ladas were based/licenced from Fiat. I'd try and track down a Fiat 125, they were a more sportier version. There were also Spyder versions as well.

Good idea ! I felt in the cutting and joining the cam they may have inadvertently been rephased advanced a few degrees, opening valves a bit earlier and producing the slight low rpm torque improvement that they noticed !