Yes another DG player bringing a knight!! I've had such a better win rate using a knight!

They are so good and needed for the army, I ran 3 pbcs some death shrouds the Lord of Virluence, and some brigands. I am winning so much

The damage is to swingy for me, they either do 17 wounds or whiff, I find the Karnivore more consistent and gnarly to rapid ingress.

​@rizzington1 I dunno man, death guard really doesn't need more melee, we have that in spades, what we need is anti-tank fire at range, which brigands offer, sure karnivores hit hard, but so do deathshroud

I mean you can still take Stalkers, huntsmen, the melee dogs. Three of your big knights are still competitively costed. Rampager isnt bad just not top of the top in terms of cost.

I certainly can and I do. I like to have variety in my lists so 6 brigands isn't for me. And you're right, I really like the rampager for what it is. But addressing your points, when I take the other dogs, I feel like there just isn't a great point to it, from a competitive standpoint at least. Not everyone's preferred way of looking at it, I know, but I'm mostly against pretty strong armies, custodes, space marines (strong against knights at least) imperial knights etc... so that does matter to me. Karnivores cost more and the other dogs losing weapon skill and AP really hurts their consistency. And as for competitively costed big knights I'm not sure, I felt like they were competitively costed before, but, except for maybe the despoiler, I felt like the points increase was a lot more than they deserved. The heart of what I'm not happy with is that I struggle to find a reason to take a different model or models that isn't just 'I like it more'. That's great, but I don't feel like I have to make any strategic give and take choices in list building. @@keyanklupacs6333

Yeah it really feels like 9th edition lite right now. That said though i feel like there's more freedom with the lists i make. I've managed to have fun games with entire big knight armies, used my tyrant almost every game and found uses for pretty much every knight in a lot of different lists. The buffs war dogs get from larger knights can make for some great combos. I'm definitely disappointed by the army rule (and battleshock in general) and the points changes but im still making the most of it. In fact the points cost in particular gave me the shits. We're paying because of Imperial Knights. The despoiler does not deserve to be that expensive. Nowhere near as powerful as people make it out to be. Also, Karnivores slap. Nothing more satisfying than running up to a tank and just tearing it in half in one turn.

Are we though? We're barely holding onto our 45% winrate and for this past week it was 43%. We're on the weaker end, and got punished because of Imperial Knights being too good.

@@MrHoneuma I mean in casual games its fine, but in competitive games it's definitely a struggle

yeah they've ruined chaos knights again, luckily I only really play with a single friend so if/when j wanna play a knight or play knights I'll just undo the points nerf and not use the stupid towering rule. I don't know a single person who enjoys towering. it literally just removes an aspect of the game.

Because towering is a legitimate problem yeah.

@@ryza7760 I do the same, i play with only a few friends and we just use the original points and dont implement Towering and we have a lot of fun playing knights (imperials or chaos), such an easy solution... no wonder GW will never implement it.

@@ryza7760 "ruined" is a strong word. They're going take a more indepth look in sepetember. If your points are still shit after that THEN I think you have a right to be angry. The towering nerf was just sort of a quick fix and three months of a meh list isnt that bad in the grand scheme of things.

@@keyanklupacs6333 they aren't gonna do anything to ck. wardog spam is keeping their win rate out of the bottom 10, which is enough to make sure they're overlooked. look, what happened in 9th, they didn't even touch ck again iirc. you really think this company has gotten less lazy?

The old problem Chaos Marines used to have with Cultists. When it's very easy to vapourize the big tough expensive guys, why not spam the little effective guys instead? Basically Knights will never be viable over Wardogs as long as knights cost 3x the points. Codex Wardog.

I’m a thousand sons player thinking about knights and sort of starting this way, although I’m using knights as an excuse to go wild and paint something unlike my usual fare

I play mostly Slaanesh Daemons, and I ally in a night as way to A) get guns, and B) distract distract distract while the daemons get close. Daemonettes even see combat sometimes when there's a knight on the board giving them coverfire!

@@timunderbakke8756 knight are such an awesome project. I played Sigmar alot but randomly I wanted to to tackle one big project... and i chose a Chaos Knight ... as my very first 40 model. then slowly got enough of them to have a functional army . But they are such a joy to paint and kitbash

How did it get buffed? Was there a data change ?

Hmm the hardest part is finding a target making the use of both weapon relevant 🤔

Remember ya gitz, if they iz pointing the shootas at our stompa, they ain't gonna see us coming up and krumping them! We'z gots to be like Mork, cunnin' but brutal

Yeah, they're the next Index review on the agenda!

@@auspextactics Might it be worth mentioning Knights as allies in Daemon lists? They fill all the holes in Daemon rosters very nicely. Especially since you can take 3 wardogs in a Daemon list.

That is fun but what was even more fun was taking a despoiler with double rapid fire battlecannon and using twist of fate

Same here man, lmao. War dogs provide amazing fire support with general chaos shooting feeling so anemic

@grayw00f now I just have to find a box that isn't over priced lol

@darthquado7516 ain't that the truth. People are trying to sell New in box war dog kits for $200+! I like my shooting, not that much 😂

@grayw00f yah I'll just spam what i can get my hands on...zerkers lol zerkers in rhinos for everyone!!!

@darthquado7516 everybody's talking shit until I walk up with 60 legionaries 😂

Shooty variant is superior due to lack of "NothingPersonal, Kid" Relic Valiant IK have.

@PeteOfDarkness nothing quite like a. Seeing an sm player oath a planopy tyrant and b. Hear that the damage is d6+8

but u cant bring too many stalkers as that would make the enemy pick assasination and bring it down fixed missions

Knights are big and stompy, and also an opportunity to get a big centerpiece. Currently working on a house Perdaxia lancer for my alpha legion.

Def go with the knight, tyrant is a bully but its hard to go wrong with 2-3 brigands in any chaos army.

Wardogs are moving a minimum 12", T10, 12W, brigands and karnivores hit on 2s, can deliver a better tank shock than any tank, and have a 5+ invul at range. For between 135 - 160 pts.

u cant be winning much with that setup?

@@lassemelson5668 haven't played it yet but thats the list

@@christophertidwell2422 u will have big problems doing secondaries... focus on the 3 small knights and u have no boardpresence

@lassemelson5668 I have three brigands with assault to get across the board and the th tyrant to get rid of at least one thing

The problem is the Huntsman's melee is poor. Better to have the Brigand's gattling cannon instead. Especially as it has the 2+ BS. I only take a Huntsman when points run out for a Brigand.

At the moment its probably a negative. Only one War Dog model can take an enhancement, and most enhancements are worthless on a single War Dog. Which means it can get hit by Anti-Character attacks for no real benefit.

I've been having fun using Knights as allies for exactly the reasons you said. Army rule sucks? Dump it. Ally 3 Wardogs in to a Daemon or CSM list and let them rip face without even worrying about their garbage army rule. Just a big sheet wrecking stuff while your Daemons teleport in extremely close and regenerate wounds, or while your CSM load the right ammo for the job or whatever.

nah tbh the reason it sucks is because volkite is just worthless lmao. if it was a plasma blast gun then I'm sure it'd actually be okay. not good, because gw refuses to let big knights ever be better than wardogs

@@ryza7760 I was trying to make a joke, given the abominant is the new, shiny big knight, and it's been given rules that are apparently not good, so clearly they don't need to sell anymore. I don't play the game, i just like listening to auspex on my walks, he makes videos long enough that they just fade into white noise.

@justinrockholt7055 ooohhh hahaha, right, i forgot they did that