Thanks for sharing your experience! Psychology does a lot with your mind when listening. If you want it to sound better, it usually will.

@@becks0816 No, I did not hear any background noises. An eye or ear opener might be Amir's Audio Science Review channel on KZfaq...

Of course there is no difference. Its not an audio interface, just sending data on usb to the DAC. Its digital. No questions. Only thing you can do is to cut the power lines from the usb cable to avoid additional psu noise.

Yeah that's what I got 3a+ plus IQ audio dac. Just on price and availability basically. Though its fussy with power. I thought I could just run it with phone charger but needs a beefier supply I think.

LOL

Does this sound better compared to pi4 usb?

And having stuck volumio on it, usb out into the free socket on the modi 3, I'm happy. It sounds good enough over airplay.

Hi. Have you got the Pi4 and made the comparisons yet? Would love to know.

@@nickburak7518 Yes I have, personally I like the Pi 4 better. For me it seems to have a more silent background. Using speakers it’s a little more obvious. I think the isolation helps the USB. Using a hat like the Digione I honestly didn’t hear much of a difference at all, all in all both are excellent streamers for their price point! That from the mouth of someone that has a Cambridge CXN V2, love that unit, but if I had to choose... I’d choose the Pi, hope that’s helpful to you, Cheers, Bubba

@@xcountry6709 Hey Bubba! Ha ha. Me an me buds call other that, too. Did you know that Bubba also means old wise man... Probably I'm more old than wise, so I like the Bubba! (just don't call a lady that. Lol). But yeah, back to business. Good to hear about your Pi4 experience. Adding a USBridge ain't cheap. So you just go USB out with no HAT? And have you tried the USB2 VS. USB3? Thanks!

@@nickburak7518 Yes I do, I have never owned a USB bridge, been going USB out on two of my Pi's since the start. Just started using the Allo Digione about a month ago/ lol Maybe can't quite remember. (Old Wise Man Syndrome) As far as the 2.0 vs 3.0 the only time I ever think about that is when I'm plugging in my iFi Zen dac. SO that should say enough right there. Digione is a definite Improvement over USB, but I would not call it endgame different, just better! If there is such a thing as endgame to folks like us!! Cheers

@@xcountry6709 Ha Ha! There is no endgame, Bubba! Lol. So, while you say that I'd be happy with the Pi4 from its native USB out, you nevertheless say that you like the DigiOne because it's, "a definite improvement.". I'm sure that you don't have to splain.

Sounds like the Pi4 is the winner for you... And maybe for me.

The boss sounds pretty good for a DAC on a hat but not as good as an external DAC. An external DAC has the advantage of having more space to spread out components and a separate power supply. My S.M.S.L. SU-10 has two separate linear power supplies, one for the digital side and one for the analog side. See my post with regards to Pi3B with N1 hat driving the SU-10 over I2S.

Yes I was using it to more easily notice the qualities of Pi versions themselves (not to get muddied with bad PS). Thought also about trying without it, but that would make 8 combinations in total... So... 😱

@@iiWiReviews Please share with us what specific linear power supply you have used with Pi's? If you have links where to get this power supplys, please do share them with us. Thank you brother.

@@suncani I believe he prefers the Shanti. It's a great LPS. I'm sure that you've seen his review of it?

Hi, I never used Amazon streaming and I'm not sure about the support on streamers such as DigiOne Signature, which would basically come down to the OS you use with it. And I don't remember seeing much support for it while testing those. Tidal and Qobuz support dominate. So using a laptop with a DDC to me seems like a safer way in your case. Probably best to consult someone with Amazon streaming experience on this matter.

OmnS. OmnN. That's a good question for you, but the answer is simple I believe. The sound of both the USB and headphone out of the Pi3 is 'dirty'. That's why he likes the Pi4 for USB out, and that's why he likes the DigiOne HAT on the Pi3 (or the USBridge for that matter). Adding one of those Allo HATs to your Pi3 would make a significant difference. So I think it doesn't matter that you are not using the Ethernet.

This question is exactly what I want to ask. Anybody can help?

Magic

This question is exactly what I want to ask.

From the other reviews I've seen (Hans Beekhyuzen and Jonny Darko), the USBridge SIG via Pi3 gives better sound due to the hardware. I'm not sure how VitOS in the Pi4 would provide that airy and deeper soundstage with subtler dynamics without a USBridge . Did i understand you?

I would go with Pi4 + DigiOne in your case. It's a very nice and versatile combination and you would get good quality USB and Coax.

@@iiWiReviews that’s what I was thinking too. One more question - do you think the fiio k5 pro would benefit for an upgraded ps even if I’m only using the dac line output? Or would upgrading the ps only affect the headphone amp? I do enjoy the fiio sound more than the topping currently but that may change worth the rpi streamer.

"sounds better with a wifi USB dongle than with the ethernet cable" - what???

@@AleXoundOS Hard wired cables of any sort carry stray signals as well as acting like antennas picking up all kinds of high frequency noise where the wifi signal and the receiver place less noise on the inputs on the Pi. Always remember that most of the impressions audiophiles get on quality of sound is placebo affect.

@@fredflintstone8048, well, no doubt Ethernet cable induces additional noise in the whole device. The question is how much. And if the case, Ethernet cable should not be treated mutually exclusive to USB dongle, because it influences the audio output regardless of the audio tract USB/Ethernet route (the actual signal carrier).

@@AleXoundOS True, but there is a lot of detail we're not getting into in this dialog which are all part of the picture if you're talking about the signal that is coming into the ethernet port on the Raspi, vs. the USB port on the Raspi. The interface circuitry, the clock signals used for each are all part of the equation. I did not address any of this but rather was speaking about the signal bridge between the Raspi and the source data signal.. One is isolated with the signal arriving on radio waves up in the several Gigahertz region far above the audio range, and the other hardwired through the ethernet cable to the network switch or router and depending on port isolation there, other devices hard wired to the network. The distance the signal travels from the radio receiver and the USB port is less than one inch. When it's all said and done the most important thing though is not how much noise a system can pick up, but rather the design of the circuits that would isolate that noise from the rest of the system. One consideration with RF is heterodyning which could generate audio freq range noise. HF signals can often create differential frequencies between them that end up in the audio region. I think this might be a good time to mention that a good deal of my initial comment was sarcasm toward the religious mentality of much of the audiophile community. I'm an engineer who tends to look more at physics and measurements from instruments which by the way are more sensitive than the human ear for showing differences. There is also the placebo affect, which of course I don't discount, but that is a function of the human brain, not the audio systems themselves. My original comment was a mixture of listing out how my DAC is laid out along with audiophile jargon applied with a good dose of sarcasm. There are of course larger scale differences which of course can be heard, but a lot of what the industry does is make a big deal out of things that make little or no differences that require belief in order to notice. The nonbeliever will never notice no matter how hard they listen. Of course the audiophile wishes to berate those individuals. That's fine but at the end of the day the person who buys and uses the rig is the one that must be satisfied no matter how much of a knuckle dragging Neanderthal he or she is according to the audio snob.

I own several Cat cables ,Cat5, Cat6, Cat7 and Cat8... they all sound different, depending on manufacturer, brands , shield and materials. Using the new Tmobile internet service over the air direct to pi sounds better that using Frontiers eero router direct, even the components in those routes make a difference in sound

Go with Pi 4, it's plenty good.

@@iiWiReviews Good. Many thanks!

Uh, sorry to hear about that. It's first time and I don't know what's going on... If I dig some info, I'll post it...

@@iiWiReviews great thanks!

I totally agree with your statement. I have an RME usb and SPDIF optical interface (Babyface) and no matter if you connect a phone, laptop or Xiaomi Mibox (via optical) this DAC sounds amazing and precise. God bless.

@@suncani Right, I‘ve got a RME too - ADI-2 Pro FS R BE :-)

Installation files probably got corrupted. I suggest not turning off the device at all if you don't need for some kind of updated or something... It just increases the chance of that happening. But when it does happen you need to use Etcher to write Volumio onto the SD card again like you did the first time.

My setup, too, using a Pi 4B (running volumio and with ifi 5V power supply) via USB 3.0 --> Modi 3+ --> SMSL SA300 amp (so a pretty low end arrangement, to be sure, but I'm happy with it). Sources are mostly FLAC files from library on SSD connected to the Pi. Of course, I'm not able to cross compare against Pi 3B, with or without Allo digiOne... You may have seen that Hans Beekhuyzen arrives at some similar conclusions to Srboljub (iiWi) re: Pi 3 vs. Pi 4 as audio streamers. I'm just going to continue to enjoy my current system since it satisfies my needs, but the tech changes so fast I at least want to know what else is going on out there!

Ah! Ha ha

Pi2aes?

@@joshuabrain9751, it works with i2s output?

@@mcjunior79 I’m pretty certain it does kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gNylksegtsyleWQ.html

@@joshuabrain9751 Pi2AES FTW! They will be back in stock soon. Definitely worth it!!!!

Ethernet connection for both.

RopieeeXL

I was thinking of the same thing. However we may have a clue. As far as I see, audiophiles prefer SPDIF over USB into the DAC. I don't know why just yet, but because I have a USB DAC w/o SPIDF, and from what I've heard from Hans Beekhyuzen, the edge may go row the 3B+ over the 4B... Now if you need the RPi for other things than streaming and can appreciate the processing power, then the 4B may prove attractive... But it all depends on the sound you like, how much you understand your system and how it delivers the kind of sound you like, and whether sound is more important than anything else. Deep pockets isn't always our option. Edit: I've learned today (from this very post and comments) that USB to DAC is second to none (if not a bit better), and the Pi4 native USB out is more than good enough. So I need not worry about getting a DigiOne HAT...necessarily. Saying that X Country says that he enjoys his USBridge on the Pi4 over the native Pi4 USB (2 or 3, doesn't matter) as "definitely better", and he agrees with me (rather, I agree with him). So I guess a $200+ HAT from Allo (USBridge), as they say, makes a difference... And with that, likely an Allo Shanti to boot (perfect b/c it can also power my DAC). CHEERS!

@@nickburak7518 sorry Nick but I missed your comment. The Allo USBbridge (Pi3B) also uses a separate bus for the USB port (rear) that feeds the DAC. It has 2 additional USB ports in the front that are not isolated but designed to be used with pen drives. As such the USBbridge is a standalone player and does not need a HAT although I have seen some that have used the DigiOne Signature as a HAT on a USBbridge. The other combination I see a lot is the Pi2AES board as a HAT on a RPi3B or RPi4B board. This combination gives the option of using a DAC with an i2S or AES input. As to which one is better, your guess would be better than mine.

@@navinadv Hey Navin. Tnx 4 ur reply. Yeah, I don't have the i2s, but I've got both Hats.

@@nickburak7518 I assume you mean the Pi2AES and the DigiOne Signature. Which board do you use them with? Pi4B? USBridge? Pi3B? Thanks.

@@navinadv 3B. I have both the USBridge Signature and the DigiOne Signature installed. Normally, I don't believe that these two primary HATs (for the 3B) are installed together, but that's what I have. Unfortunately - and maybe you can point me in the right direction - but I wasn't able to understand how to use the thing. The HDMI output isn't something I could get working properly in the sense that the UI shows on the TV/monitor. (Volumio) Only the dos would show. Allo has not helped me enough (say, by sending me an operating manual or suggesting a book for dummies or actually walking me thru the steps) My unit cost me almost $709 CAD after all said and done. I know it's supposed to be easy to operate a RPi but I ended up getting a Bluesound Node. Even then, since I have YTM for curation, I mainly listen to its lossy codec via BT (from my cell phone) simply because of my preferred playlists and the ease of control in YTM. Interestingly, while 16/44.1 streaming does sound better, it's not enough to sacrifice the music I want to listen to...and who cares for all that so that I have access all kinds of internet radio at 64, 96 or 128 mps?

I haven't tried it, and to be perfectly honest I don't know anything about its OS support and such. I'm not even sure there are dedicated audio streaming OS-es for it (such as Volumio, Moode, RopieeeXL, etc. for Pi). You would probably have to use some sort of general purpose OS, and then install everything needed for streaming yourself.

I used the black ones... Which ones are better to your ears? It came to my mind at one moment but I forgot to try changing them later on.

@@iiWiReviews USB3 is warmer and it has a little bit bit more deep sound. USB2 is more detailed in high frequencies and high mids, vocals are more flat. I prefer USB3, my wife USB2 ;)

@@ph88oppl Wives are always right - it is known. :)

@@iiWiReviews i prefer the Usb2. Usb 3 lost Focus the Voice, narow, the Bass was to much.

@@iiWiReviews And this time my wife was right.. I did blind tests yesterday. USB2 definitely sounds better. The sound is more detailed and clearer. RPI documentation: "All four USB ports on the device are connected to the USB 2.0 hub, whilst the USB 3.0 ports (blue) are ALSO connected to the USB 3.0 bus via the USB 3.0 specific pins in the socket." - "ALSO connected"... I think this is the answer why USB2 sounds better.

😢 我收回之前的言論。我檢查過了，是我的耳擴接觸不良，所以造成不好的聽感。Pi 4 & Pi 3B+ 的差異其實沒有很大。我們也不可能單純聽歌不做其它的事情吧。。。😅 Google translate: 😢 I take back my previous remarks. I checked, and it was my earphones that were in bad contact, which caused the bad hearing. The difference between Pi 4 & Pi 3B+ is actually not that big. We can't just listen to music without doing other things. . . 😅

Pi 3B+ and DigiOne > Pi 4 and DigiOne > Pi 4 and USB > Pi 3B+ and USB

Did you even watch the video…? 😣

I get you. Hans Beekhyuzen makes it more clear in his videos that the USB out from the Pi3 is dirty. This video makes it clear the USB out to DAC from Pi4 has really improved. But yeah, the video (and his personal reply here) explains it enough. When you consider how much the Allo DigiOne costs, unless you hate the forward sound he's talking about, the Pi4 seems like a great option if you don't have a 3K+ sound system or don't care for 'warm' luscious and airy sound (something like we'd get from tube preamps for example).

Have anyone try the HDMI extractor to output spdf, rca and coax some can do 5.1 7.1 atmos...plenty of choices

Worry not, the difference is small and you might not even agree with me as I mentioned. Enjoy it!

And you have a better processor anyway! Win, win probably

Allo Shanti

@@iiWiReviews Thanks!

Any Pi with SPDIF HAT still sounds better than Pi 4 with USB alone. Now, if it's worth the difference is a very difficult question. Let's say you're using an entry-level Topping, Schiit, etc. DAC, Yamaha AS-201 amp, and Wharfedale Diamond 220 speakers... then I would say no - it's not worth fussing over HAT and the difference that will be very difficult to notice in such system if you even notice any at all... cause the rest of the gear will mask most of t. On the other hand, if you're using something like SMSL M400, Denafrips Ares II, Chord Qutest DAC... and Similarly priced Rega/Cambridge/Hegel... amp, and resolving Speakers similar to KEF R1. R3, LS50, Monitor Audio Silver, Wharfedale Linton, etc. Then you'll probably hear the difference between the USB on Pi4 and HAT very easily and appreciate added clarity. Any decent system that falls somewhere in between these two situations is basically a judgment call... and how deep are you into this hobby. If you're OK with keeping your speakers on a TV stand or a bookshelf then I'd say don't bother with upgrading the digital section - chances are you're not going to notice it and you'll think we're imagining things. If you're the type with dedicated stands that was playing with a toe in until getting the best possible soundstage... then you're most likely to notice the improvement. Sorry for the long post, but there's no simple answer to these kinds of questions. :)

@@iiWiReviews Thank you very much for your answer. That's a good point, and a good reminder that probably upgrading sources should be a tertiary concern to upgrading amplification and especially speakers. Though the temptation to tinker with sources to get the most out of an existing system is of course big (for me personally). The price and hassle of ordering (and possibly returning) a small (digital) source upgrade is just that much smaller than doing the same with amplification or speakers.

@@EgonB325 I hear what u are saying. However there are audiophiles who say that the source is the most important thing. (naturally the argument will go on and on). But I can appreciate that. Afterall our host at iiWi loves what a great power supply can do to improve the source (the Allo Shanti) output. It's the same argument about the sound recording. A great sound recording on a great player could sound better (or maybe the same) on an average system than a great sound system with a poor version of the same track played in a cheap source. They always say a great system reveals how poor a poor recording is. The first time I got a separate DTS processor with DTS tracks (Eagles, Alan Parsons, etc.) it made my ordinary sound system take me into orbit! It's like NOS for a car. One example I heard explained it this way. I hope I get it close. If i put on track shoes with my body (read: shoes = speaker)(body strength = amp)(source = oxygen and heart) and raced Usain Bolt in construction boots, his heart and lungs will make those construction boots go faster than my heart and lungs could ever make any track shoes go. Don't know it I translated it properly. It all matters I think, which is why the argument for speaker wire is so important (just kidding 😜)

Ha! You read my mind :) Yes, it is. USB3 is warmer and it has a little bit bit more deep sound. USB2 is more detailed in high frequencies and high mids, vocals are more flat. I was doing A/B tests.

I was planning to try it out but I forgot and ended up just using 2.0.

Michal’s experience mirrors mine. There’s definitely a difference and easy to compare.

@@ph88oppl stop which one you prefer? I’m thinking usb3. But then you lack the mid and hi detail?

@@GB-up6nl I did blind tests once again and USB2 definitely sounds better.

Pi 4 is definitely hotter... I felt it just by hand after some use... I didn't monitor temperature closely. There are some sort of low profile heatsinks that can be mounted... But I feel there's no need for music streaming, as that's not demanding task and it shouldn't ever become that hot to be problematic. It's also interesting to know that our hands feel that 50 C degrees is very very hot to the touch, 55 C already feels like we can burn our skin... but for silicon parts, that's nothing to be considered about.

@@iiWiReviews yeah that’s interesting, I was thinking of getting a pi3 just so the heat is more manageable and I can get a case, as the 4 gets very hot in a case and I’m not game to put it in one yet. So although the 50-60 degrees is sustainable for the Pi itself, it’s quite irksome to have in your hifi rack

Okay, I'll bite. Why then do so many reviewers seem to be interested in SPDIF? Or maybe it's me? Do you have any links you can share that USB to DAC is superior? My DAC right now has USB, not SPDIF. Tnx

@@nickburak7518 Most reviewers are interested in SPDIF because most audio equipment, like CD players and Network Streamers, do not support USB out. Check out DAC reviews on audiosciencereview for interface measurements. In most cases, USB interfaces provide lower noise floor and jitter. As for Pi and other computers, adding a SPDIF out doesn’t make sense unless your DAC either has a poor implementation of USB or just doesn’t support it.

@@thadbiser Yes, I'm learning that. Thanks for your reply. I'm new to all this, having enjoyed and old (but good) sound system recently reconditioned (NAD 2600, Pioneer HPM-100, Paradigm XT6, Yamaha DSP-A3090, etc.). I have a simple Douk Audio DAC with just RCA, BT and USB in, so I appreciate your input. I don't expect the Douk to have great jitter correction tho. Still I'm sure getting a Pi4 and going straight to my DAC through the USB will prove a new good thing streaming (for Tidal/Qobuz). Currently my streaming program is KZfaq Music.

@@nickburak7518 Definitely. With Pi4 USB to your DAC, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Also, don't buy into getting an "audiophile" USB cable. Save your money and just go with a decent regular USB cable. There is no difference between a quality $10 USB cable and a $3000 USB cable.

@@thadbiser I have so many cables... Ha ha. But yeah, I'll work with what I've got and go with Pi4. Now, Volumio? Moode? Roopie? At least I can try different ones. Then off to Tidal or Qobuz... Don't know about Roon yet, but I think I'd appreciate the integration and track information... What OS and streaming services do you use? Cheers!

For sound quality RoPieeeXL is my favorite... For more features Volumio or MoOde.

@@iiWiReviews I’d RpPieeeXL free?

All of these are free.

@@iiWiReviews do you need additional software to be able to stream? Also with tidel direct the music comes directly from the internet without compressions? I think? Does this do that? Does Amazon music work the same way?

I never tried that with Pi2AES, just kept using 3B+ since then. Later also found that Hans Beekhuyzen mentioned similar results on his channel, explaining that it's happening because of a lower power consumption, hence lower electrical interference coming from the Pi board itself. The effect might truly not be noticeable on Pi2AES but I'm not in a mood to tinker with it and listen for the differences again with every different HAT.

@@iiWiReviews thanks for the reply… appreciate it..

It's 4. It's all the same for the purpose of audio streaming. I would steer away from 2 just to be safe for the future. 4 is perfectly fine.

@@iiWiReviews Thank you so much

I've heard the same, especially Hans Beekhyuzen. Jonny Darko prefers SPDIF (as do many, actually) over USB to DAC. Have you noticed? Do you know why? Tnx

That actually depends on the OS and player being used and if you're using software volume control or not. That, said, if two things are bit-perfect that's not a guarantee they'll sound the same too. There's more to that story...

@@iiWiReviews Hmm... I wonder what other factor influence a bit-perfect transmission

Just for example, jitter and noisy electrical ground can make a difference.

First well reasoned response I have seen after watching many similar type of videos comparing the Pi 3 vs 4, etc. concerning sound quality. You are absolutely correct in that it makes no difference what-so-ever which digital source is used, as you said they all end up sending 1 and 0's to the DAC. Short of a component failure causing massive data corruption, the usb protocol incorporates error detection and any bad packets will be dropped and simply resent. As you alluded to, even using the USB 2 interface provides more than sufficient bandwidth to handle such events. About the only thing I can get on-board with is to avoid using the headphone output to feed a signal to your system and use a DAC, be that either a HAT or an external unit. I also agree with your assessment that this reeks of the same audiophile technobabble used to sell $300+ speaker cables and other absurdities to drain the wallets of the gullible of their hard earned money. For sure, stay away from the garbage Alibaba type $1.00 cables, but spending anything more than $10-$15 or so for most audio interconnects and USB cables is just a waste. Even for speaker cables , stick with copper and 14, 16, or 18 gauge depending upon run length, and you will be fine. Spending much more than $20-$30 on speaker cabling is also a waste. Unless you just use headphones, anyone reading this itching to spend money to improve their sound quality would be better served by looking into some acoustical treatments for their listening area. A dozen or so well placed acoustical panels, a few bass traps, and maybe some diffusers will make a much more dramatic improvement to your listening environment than agonizing over using a Pi 3 vs 4, or a external DAC versus a HAT board.