Christ's Hypostatic Union and Omniscience

Рет қаралды 6,710

4 жыл бұрын

Moved into a longer discussion of Christology in reference to Derek Thomas’ sermon that G3 chose not to post.
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@pateunuchity884 4 жыл бұрын

Our former church had “special meetings” where the gospel of Thomas was quoted. Referencing how we need to raise the dead. Therefore, we should practice on dead birds and plants. It sounds crazy to me now but I just watched with wonder and wanted my faith to be a big as theirs. Such lunacy!! Feels good to be free from this delusion!!!

@OnTheThirdDay Жыл бұрын

Wow

@AidenRKrone 10 ай бұрын

I used to think the ontological Trinity was the most complicated theological subject in Christianity, but when I learned more about it, I realized that it's not too hard to understand, as long as you properly employ philosophical/metaphysical terms like "substance" and "essence". Now, I think the hypostatic union is the most difficult concept in Christianity. A lot of work has been done throughout the centuries about how the incarnate Christ's human nature and divine nature coexist in the Person of the incarnate Son, but there's just so much that we don't know - and probably will never know, at least not in this life.

@Mike65809 7 ай бұрын

I don't believe Scripture gives us a Jesus with two natures. Jesus always maintained that he did his miracles by the Father doing his work in him. He was given the Holy Spirit without measure and in the Incarnation did no miracles until his baptism. Yet he was always deity in his identity as the Logos made flesh.

@SSNBN777 4 ай бұрын

@@Mike65809 I so agree. I've never heard a preacher speak about Jesus’ human spirit (Luke 23:46), and will. They always teach He had a Divine Spirit (indeed He did before the incarnation). But, as you say, He had the anointing of the Father's Spirit, (not a third person) that spoke the words and did the works. On the Cross, Jesus “commended” His human spirit to His Father, Commend means to submit for acceptance. Here the Lamb of God is revealed - submitting for His Father's approval, a pure uncorrupted, sinless body, a human spirit alive and directly begotten by the Father’s Spirit at birth, and a soul filled only with Righteous thoughts, always faithful to God and the Scriptures. The Perfect man, the Last Adam, asking His Father to accept His Sacrifice in lieu of the fallen First Adam, providing a way back to the eternal life with Almighty God that He always wanted for mankind, and now can be offered to those who will believe in the Son. Jesus accomplished it all as a man, then returned to heaven, reunited back into His Father's Glory (Spirit - John 17:5; Acts 2:32-33), where He came from, as God. Revelation 19:13 YLT and he is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, *_and his name is called, The Word of God._*

@oscarrivera8660 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for upload this material!

@mike1967sam 4 жыл бұрын

I used to live in Canada, I have lived in Lisbon, Portugal for a long, long time now and came to Christ 7 and a half years ago. I read the Bible and pray twice sometimes three times every day but almost everybody here is Catholic, I was born Catholic and rejected Catholicism about 6 years ago when I was still searching. All i know, all I think I understand I learned from you Dr. White and consider myself ...I won't use the term Calvinist ... but a Reformed Protestant. I'll be 53 soon and I was an atheist from the age of 15 to the age of 44. It has been a Journey. God bless. Mike.

@atlallthetime8193 3 жыл бұрын

Hallelujah!!

@conradbulos6164 5 ай бұрын

Good news,Mike! All those years of searching is finally at an end atheisim and Catholicism did not help your search for discovery of who and what God Is.God has heard your cry and commissioned me to tell you to go to KZfaq and click " Conversations with God" an audiobook produced by Neale Donal Walsch. Here God explains in clear simple terms all about creation and that (He) is not the God of Moses or the bible, that we are not made of clay as writtenin Genesis, authored by Moses, the first of five books he wrote known as the Pentateuch.

@conradbulos6164 5 ай бұрын

In Neales audiobook you will be happy to discover that we are God's spirit children, begotten not made, in His image and likeness, and like Jesus, our elder brother, one in being with our Father, true God from true God. You will find this hard to believe after centuries of false indoctrination by our well meaning but seriously flawed religious leaders, pastors and teachers who ars themselves victims of false teachings

@conradbulos6164 5 ай бұрын

Another good news is that there is no hell or a place of eternal damnation as told and retold by religious leaders to scare us into submission and obedience, no devils or even angels, no battle in heaven over the throne of God.

@jesselyons8390 3 ай бұрын

@@conradbulos6164 What is this heresy? Sounds like a form of Dualism. Why do you go after strange doctrine and reject the Holy Spriptures as God's infallable Word

@BrandynMakes 4 жыл бұрын

Any other good resources on healthily addressing ketosis theory. How to rightly and safely approach kenosis. Any good books article, papers?

@bournebrawler9012 2 жыл бұрын

I know it's a year later, but I hope this is helpful. In Wayne Grudem's book, Bible Doctrine, he addresses kenosis. It's too long of a section to quote in full, but here's a small portion: "Upon closer examination, we can see that Philippians 2:7 does not say that Christ 'emptied himself of some powers' or 'emptied himself of divine attributes' or anything like that. Rather, the text describes what Jesus did in this 'emptying.' He did not do it by giving up any of his attributes but by 'taking the form of a servant', that is, by coming to live as a man, and 'being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross'. Thus, the context itself interprets this emptying as equivalent to a humbling himself and taking on a lowly status and position. Thus, the NIV, instead of translating the phrase he emptied himself, translate sit but made himself nothing. The emptying includes role and status, not essential attributes or nature. It means he took a humble role."

@Mike65809 7 ай бұрын

@@bournebrawler9012 I like Grudem's book, but I think the emptying went beyond that. He obviously did give up miraculous attributes of deity since the miracles he did were from the Father working in him. That was what he said. He was given the Holy Spirit without measure, and the Father worked that way in him. So it makes sense that in humbling himself and becoming a man, he would have to let them go, as no normal man has them. As a perfect man, representing us, he had to be totally dependent on the Father. But he did maintain his divine identity as the Logos. That didn't change, so he was always deity. Now in his exalted state, he has them back again. Amen?

@jjmulvihill 2 ай бұрын

Jesús was not dependent on the Father or the Holy Ghost. He was/is in Unity with them. God is one. No separation.

@AJMacDonaldJr 4 жыл бұрын

Hypostatic union.

@mitchellc4 2 жыл бұрын

Hello Jesus is the Messiah The Son of God The Son of David The Son of man The man God has chosen to be his anointed king The man God will judge the world through The man God raised from the dead Jesus has a God There is no triune god in scripture Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. -

@kardiognostesministries8150 Ай бұрын

The Son of Giod (John 20:31) is "my God" (John 20:28).

@johnno. 3 жыл бұрын

bila kayf?

@pateunuchity884 4 жыл бұрын

Kenosis theory is strange meat. It is unbiblical. Packer has a chapter devoted to the deity of Christ in his book “Knowing God”. This has helped me understand much as a former hyper charismatic.

@Mike65809 7 ай бұрын

To me the Kenosis makes the most sense and is the most biblical. Jesus always maintained that the miracles he did was from the Father working in him. He gave all credit to the Father. Where Kenosis may get it wrong is they think he gave up his divinity. But he was always divinity in his identity as the Logos made into flesh. That didn't change in the Incarnation. Amen?

@claytonbill 2 жыл бұрын

I can't follow

@pokemonbacon1237 8 ай бұрын

5:00

@chrisboswell7812 7 ай бұрын

Did God the son, seperate when Jesus died on the cross?

@Weebgamer236 5 ай бұрын

Noo God the son experience death according to his human nature meaning his human soul was detached from his human body.But his divine nature never changed Hope I articulated it in a good way

@jaspin555 Күн бұрын

so the person of Jesus never died?

@pokemonbacon1237 8 ай бұрын

7:30

@Mike65809 3 жыл бұрын

The Hypostatic union gave us a Jesus with two natures. But the Bible does not support this. When the Word was made flesh he kept his identity, but became a man. Jesus did miracles, not by his own divine attributes, but by the Holy Spirit indwelling him. It was the Father working in him by the HS. Jesus, the perfect man, could not glorify himself with his own divine attributes. So when Jesus did not know the time of his return, he really didn't know, and was not just talking out of his human nature. Chalcedon cannot solve this except by giving us a paradox.

@andredejong6890 4 жыл бұрын

...entering into human flesh... Thanks for confirming your gnostic christology again

@billschlegel1 6 ай бұрын

at 11:22

@Mike65809 3 жыл бұрын

The problem with Chalcedon it is makes it sound like Jesus did miracles by his own attributes of deity. But Scripture does not bear this out. The book of John illustrates that Jesus did miracles by the Father dwelling in him in the power of the Holy Spirit. This is why Jesus did no miracles in his childhood, or early adult life. It was after the Holy Spirit came upon him that the miracles started. Hope that helps.

@Mike65809 2 жыл бұрын

@christocentric It's easy to make an accusation. I would hope you could summarize what the 44 minute video says. I would think it would be easy since you understand all of this. Keep in mind, I formed my understanding on what the Bible says, even Jesus himself. Anyone not using all of the testimony of the Bible about Jesus' nature is going to err.

@Mike65809 2 жыл бұрын

@christocentric In what way did I support Adoptionism? Give proof.

@Mike65809 2 жыл бұрын

@christocentric Here is what I wrote in this thread, but not sure where it is below: The Hypostatic union gave us a Jesus with two natures. But the Bible does not support this. When the Word was made flesh he kept his identity, but became a man. Jesus did miracles, not by his own divine attributes, but by the Holy Spirit indwelling him. It was the Father working in him by the HS. Jesus, the perfect man, could not glorify himself with his own divine attributes. So when Jesus did not know the time of his return, he really didn't know, and was not just talking out of his human nature. Chalcedon cannot solve this except by giving us a paradox. So I will now add this. Of course he was God in his conception. He kept his identity as the Logos, the 2nd person of the Trinity. What changed is he emptied himself of his miraculous attributes and did miracles by the Holy Spirit in him. He did not even glorify himself, as he would certainly have the right to do, but had emptied himself of that, also. Then he experienced life as a man, who experienced temptation, weakness and even death, so now he is able to identify with us in all of our weaknesses, as Hebrews says. There is no Adoptionism in this.

@Mike65809 2 жыл бұрын

@christocentric Yes, as the 2nd Person of the Trinity, the Logos, it would be assumed that he had miraculous attributes as the Father and the Holy Spirit. He would have his own glory and could glorify himself, be all knowing, have aseity, able to overcome time, space and material elements, etc. But Phil. 2 says he emptied himself (assumed of non-human attributes) and became a man, even to the point of death on a cross. This self emptying an serving others is a model for us. When Jesus was on earth, he did not glorify himself, nor did he do miracles by his own power, but the Father working in him. He was not all knowing, since he did not know the day or hour of his return, and he grew in wisdom; nor was he omnipresent, nor have aseity. He had life because of the Father. But his identity as the Logos never changed in the process of the Incarnation, the Logos Spirit transforming into a human spirit. Otherwise the Logos would have ceased to exist and Jesus the new creation would have come into being. Was he God? Yes, in this sense, totally. But it has to be understood that he was not as Chalcedon shows him to be, with two natures, fully God, fully man. This is not what the Scripture shows us about him. Hope that helps.

@Mike65809 2 жыл бұрын

@christocentric Okay what did he empty himself of? And hypostatic union is not in the Bible, so I'm not worried on that one.

@blanko5953 4 жыл бұрын

Just wondering if Dr. James White has approved this channel's breach of copyright? I want to watch, however, you might be breaking laws...or is this channel actually part of Dividing Line?

@masterkeep 2 жыл бұрын

The Dividing Line is a division of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

@OnTheThirdDay Жыл бұрын

Read the about page of the channel. This channel is not affiliated with White or A&O Ministries.

@aaronharun1394H 26 күн бұрын

The earlier idols (false deities) were statues erected of pious people of previous generations. These people were later wrongly prayed to and taken as deities. These type of misguided beliefs of taking humans as deities or gods exist in pagan and polytheist religions, past and present. A human taking another human as a deity or God is falsehood. It makes absolutely no sense for a human to pray to (worship) another human. Deity Incarnation where a human is believed to be a deity or God coming down in this world as a human is among the misguided claims in pagan and polytheist religions, past and present. Claiming a human is God manifest as a human is among the misguided claims in pagan and polytheist religions. Claiming a spirit in a human is a deity or God is among the misguided claims in pagan and polytheist religions. Claiming God having sons or daughters is among the misguides claims in pagan and polytheists religions. All that I mentioned about idolatry, pagan and polytheist religions you can look it up online including from their own sources. The misguided belief of taking Jesus as a deity or God is against what Jesus himself believe and taught. It is against what all the guided prophets that include Noah, Abraham and Moses believed and taught. It is against the foremost of the religion which is the first and foremost commandment. Abraham did not pray to Jesus which is a man's name. Abraham did not pray to three persons. God is not a human God created humans As great a human Jesus is, he still is human.

@aaronharun1394H 26 күн бұрын

Chosen messengers of God were sent by God throughout history to warn their communities of their errors. Noah and Abraham were messengers of God who were sent to warn their communities of their errors of idolatry and the consequences of Hellfire. Idolatry is a grave error and an unforgivable sin. The only way is to repent and leave that believe and practise. Muhammad was also sent to warn the arab pagans at the time of their errors of idolatry. As an ensuing messenger who is also the final messenger chosen after Jesus, Muhammad was also sent to warn the Christians of their error of believing Jesus is God and the consequences of Hellfire.

@aaronharun1394H 26 күн бұрын

In the gospels, it is mentioned that Jesus was sent. Jesus was a human messenger of God among many human messengers of God that were sent throughout history. The human messengers of God were chosen from humans and were sent to convey message to other humans. The one God who sent Jesus is the same one God who sent Noah is the same one God who sent Abraham is the same one God who sent Moses. Jesus did not send Jesus. The one God sent Jesus. The one God is not Jesus. The one God is the most High and the one who sends, not someone who is sent.

@mitchellc4 2 жыл бұрын

@pokemonbacon1237 8 ай бұрын

6:15