Hello Christian, I enjoy your playing immensely. Thank you for the tips, I have been playing the violin for over 40 years with a chinrest now I am going to try it another way because of the pain my shoulder and neck are in. I love to practice and work it all out . I am a improv guy , not so much gypsy jazz more Luc Ponty style. I want to mention for the past 20 years I do violin restoration and make my own high-end sounding instruments. What instrument are you playing? If you check out my FB page, Craig Thaler you will see what kind of work I do. Thank you again.

Ah yes, forearm that's the right word! Thanks!

Hi there...may I ask what you found difficult, as I too can NOT get along with the Belgium hold...my fingers feel awkward and my little finger can't stay on it!

Han-Kwang Nienhuys Exactly. I'm considering switching because of the way my joints in my fingers are and no one teaches it!

Finally someone who knows it telling how it works, not someone who cant use it trying to prove it does not work.

@@LittleLotteWanders same as me. But the Americans hate anything labeled as Russian, that all.

​@@nocturnallsnake4228 I'm American and I love Russian culture. This bow hold was popularized by a Hungarian though, not a Russian. It is not really used in Russia. But, I wouldn't care if it was or wasn't, I like this bow hold a lot. Not all Americans hate Russians 😅 i just hate politics in general at this point, but not people of a country because it's the "popular" thing to hate them. 😅

You're welcome, great to hear it works for you!

critical thinker Thank you!

And what do Hungarians say?

@@ChristiaanvanHemert lol

Christiaan van Hemert hungarian bow hold: Auer, teacher in St-Petersburg, Flesch and Joachim are hungarians.

Same problem here

Stephanie Gilmore Hey, did you try it? how did it go?

Thanks for the contribution!

What do you do if your pinky isn't long enough to touch the bow and counterbalance the thumb with Franco-Cantabrian? Presently, I like the speed I can get from Franco-Cantabrian, but the Russian Grip gives me more even bowing because I don't need my tiny pinky.

I think the option of the Russian bowhold is something that should be taught as a staple in violin technique and pedagogy as well as the positive aspects to which it contributes to the CLASSICAL genre as well. It is very unfortunate that violin teachers either dont teach it, dont know how to teach it, and often "correct" or "shun" this age old and almost EXTINCT technique that almost ALL of the MASTERS of the 20th century and of course their teachers used. Its also sad that as soon as somebody who has made a name for themselves as a performer starts to give advice, that for the sake of "correctness" and "defending what I teach and know is true and correct" , why not try the russian bow hold on an entry level student who is so frustrated they are obviously not practicing and going to quit playing altogether anyway? Franco-B bow hold is reliable and very important to understand, and being that no two hands are the same, there are many different techniques and pedagogy approaches applied in violin teaching. I commend you Christiaan van Hemert for bringing this and other old world and "extinct" techniques, such as how to play without a shoulder rest, back to the attention of teachers and players alike. After much consideration, I have decided to revamp my pedagogy for not only advanced players but entry level students to use both bow grips and to equally understand the fundamentals of both from a humble and POSITIVE perspective. I simply dont think that when my students watch videos of Heifitz, Menuhin, Haendel, Milstein, etc. that they should ever feel intimidated to ask how and why someone like Heifitz or Menuhin played with those techniques, of whom obviously were MASTERS of the violin, and yet their teacher says that instruction on those techniques are not available in this studio. As a CLASSICAL student, I found that very frustrating and somewhat hypocritical. None of my teachers played as well as these MASTERS, yet I was told you MUST use a Franco-B and a shoulder rest. I think as artists, regardless of genre, should never get too opinionated and closed minded. Thats what makes an artist an artist. If violin teachers would simply set aside their ego, and ADD these possibilities to what they already teach, we may find that one of these techniques could be key to unlocking an unseen gift in a special student. Maybe unearth a modern era Heifitz???!!!! Thanks for all of your time and knowledgeable contributions!!!!

+Paula McCrackin Wow, thanks so much! I think you make excellent points throughout!

Also, Joshua Bell.

My apologies. No script means a lot of rambling sometimes!

Thanks!

+Bryant Tow Thank you Bryant. Very interesting to read your perspective on bow holds!

What are the positives of the Franco Belgium bow hold?

Thanks for the input, very interesting!

Thanks for sharing the link to that video, wonderful playing! Looks a lot like Russian to me indeed!

Oh nice, I hope it will suit you!

Cool that you gave it a try!

Also, I'm self teaching.

I just saw this a few days ago, and am trying it but it'll take time. I keep slipping back to FB , out of habit. I''m thinking I'll be corrected in orchestra for using Russian.😀

Sorry! I mean to say "humerus" rather than "femur". What I meant was the upper bone in the my bowing arm.

I'm afraid I'm of no help since I never put in the time to learn the up bow staccato though if it's only 4 notes I think they can be made with the forearm with a start/stop movement!

Yes, definitely easier on the wrist!

@@ChristiaanvanHemert Thanks for the answer! Guess I'll try to learn it more then (or some variation that's more comfortable for me)

It could certainly benefit you. Just try it out for a few days and see if you feel comfortable with it. It will probably improve your sound if nothing else!

Thanks.

Spiccato is doable in two ways: either learn to control it with your forearm by practicing slowly or change your bow hold for the spiccato part (I would do the latter if it was a long spiccato part like in Tchaikovsky's violin concerto at various places).

@@ChristiaanvanHemert Hey, thanks!

Bend underneath the bow!

Christiaan van Hemert thanks

As I wrote elsewhere: It's just a name. I teach at a University alongside a PHD in violin schools and methodology and even though she admits the name is questionable she also refers to it as "Russian bow hold". It's just the name that most people use so at this point in time I use that name too to ensure everybody knows what I'm talking about!

That's what one might call a blessing in disguise!

@@ChristiaanvanHemert Indeed! You will love this. You know how I switched? Saw a gipsy performing on the street missing the pinky and ring fingers. Yet his bow control and sound was amazing! I think the dogmatic teaching of a bow hold is really wrong. There are factors of hand structure that should determine the best bow hold for someone.

That is a cool story indeed! I like to think about it like this: there's just not one way to achieve things. Many different bow holds can lead to great results!

It's just a name. I teach at a University alongside a PHD in violin schools and methodology and even though she admits the name is questionable she also refers to it as "Russian bow hold". It's just the name that most people use so at this point in time I use that name too to ensure everybody knows what I'm talking about!

@@ChristiaanvanHemert Thank you for the information. I appreciate very much

I'm clueless. Consider me clay and yours too mold...please mold me! I

Christiaan van Hemert no problem. The whole point of the bow control is not a posture, is a weight distribution, and bow distribution. You can hold your bow in the fist. The Franco-Belgian technic is the most efficient way to achieve that goal because it's flexible and adjustable, unlike what you call Russian bow hold.

@@plemax Very interesting. Do you have any videos of you demonstrating the sound. Cause if your sound is better than mine I should switch. Thanks and looking forward to your video!

Christiaan van Hemert lol. you mean you have good sound? Good for you. Sound over the recoding depend on the gears you are using, room acoustics, instrument itself. I will make you a video of the proper sound. Sorry to hurt your feelings. By the way. Holding violin without shoulder rest should enable you to play Paganini on G string, otherwise there no point in doing it.

@@plemaxSounds good, many thanks!

Yes, I think everything said in this video about the advantages for gypsy fiddling apply equally to Irish fiddling.