When CH mentions TJ in passing, it is usually in praise with respect to the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom. When he discussed TJ more in depth, he always describes a more realistic character with numerous contradictions. Somehow, the tone of this discussion seems different. There seems to be less praise and more mention of TJ's less desirable traits. I greatly enjoyed listening to this, but it was not quite what I expected.

@QuasiRandomViewer excellent point. Usually, the general approach to TJ is based on one of two extremes. Either he is the slave owning hypocrite or the untouchable Founding Father. This gentlemen begins with information and not an agenda.

interesting how Hitchens said America during the Revolution was like 5th century Athens, all these extraordinary minds in one place... never thought about that

Perhaps this was driven by questions from a host who is more knowledgeable than most.