Christopher Marlowe was a Gay Atheist Spy (Yes, really.)

  Рет қаралды 21,136

Fandom Musings

Fandom Musings

7 жыл бұрын

Christopher "Kit" Marlowe was an Elizabethan playwright, friend of William Shakespeare, and a gay atheist spy. Let's talk about that
Patreon: / fandommusings

Пікірлер: 92
@ashestoashes78
@ashestoashes78 5 жыл бұрын
Time Traveler from 2022: Are you gay? Marlowe: No, my boyfriend has fallen ill, and Shakespeare’s play did better than mine, how could I be gay? 😠
@royalvalkyrie
@royalvalkyrie 7 жыл бұрын
*is here because of Will* xD
@mad-eb8gv
@mad-eb8gv 7 жыл бұрын
sameeee i ship them so bad.
@spookisghostly4619
@spookisghostly4619 6 жыл бұрын
Shipped
@karolinakuc8290
@karolinakuc8290 6 жыл бұрын
royalvalkyrie I think they are the same person
@emmamartirosyan5806
@emmamartirosyan5806 5 жыл бұрын
Karolina Kuc too smart to be true
@angelicagufi5790
@angelicagufi5790 5 жыл бұрын
Shiiiip
@spaceland-fae5264
@spaceland-fae5264 5 жыл бұрын
Spy or Sugar Baby that's the question
@howdylanky
@howdylanky 6 жыл бұрын
why do we ship histotical figures like, its not even just them, tHERES MORE
@isabelahugue849
@isabelahugue849 5 жыл бұрын
Like who?
@imme246
@imme246 5 жыл бұрын
@@isabelahugue849 Henry and Anne for example
@wanneo.3235
@wanneo.3235 5 жыл бұрын
Like Alexander Hamilton and John Laurens
@marsupius
@marsupius 5 жыл бұрын
Because it's hot. Also, we want to mitigate the negative affects of historians spending so much time and energy over the centuries trying to convince us that all historical figures are straight.
@davidcross9811
@davidcross9811 4 жыл бұрын
Edward II and Piers Gaveston Frederick II and Katte James I and George Villiers.
@digitalbrentable
@digitalbrentable 7 жыл бұрын
I do hope you're harvesting all the salt these videos generate. Great video, as usual. Also, totally would watch a gay Shakespeare in Love featuring Marlowe instead of whoever Gwyneth Paltrow was. You could have Marlowe's spy plotline, Shakespeare and Marlowe as rivals/collaborates, friends then lovers. Shakespeare is more professional, not as overtly gay, and a better writer. Marlowe is turbulent, intense, rash, and passionate. The pressures and intrigues of Marlowe's second life come crashing down shortly after Shakespeare resolve their will-they-won't-they drama, resulting in Marlowe's murder. It's a personal tragedy for Shakespeare, that is implied to have made him yet better at writing it. Would be a great watch.
@fandommusings5302
@fandommusings5302 7 жыл бұрын
B.K. Laughton love it! My only change would be that marlowe was absolutely the better writer while they knew each other. That early in his career, shakespeare was still trying to be an actor AND writer, and he didnt really hit his best work until after marlowe had died.
@digitalbrentable
@digitalbrentable 7 жыл бұрын
Oh cool, did not know that their skill trajectories lined up like that, though as a long-time fan of Dr. Faustus I can definitely see what you mean with regard to Shakespeare's earlier work - just never matched up the dates. I actually directed a small volunteer production of Dr Faustus years ago. Fantastic text, layers of irony. "Terminat hora diem, terminat auctor opus" has got to be my favourite line from any play, ever: layers of irony in that one. Anyhow, Shakespeare as the timid, less accomplished of the two works even better with Marlowe as the flamboyant, unstable, tragic genius. Plus I can't even imagine the volumes of delicious outrage at the implication that Shakespeare's dead gay fling helped make him the master he came to be.
@ladydark623
@ladydark623 6 жыл бұрын
B.K. Laughton I love Marlowe he was perfect,
@cacyc3227
@cacyc3227 6 жыл бұрын
B.K. Laughton were they actually lovers?
@faithsheppard886
@faithsheppard886 4 жыл бұрын
Love how your humour makes learning about history interesting, thank you for making this!
@alyssafleischer8449
@alyssafleischer8449 6 жыл бұрын
I haven't read much Marlowe and I'd actually never heard about a lot of this before, but I can definitely buy him being attracted to men. I was in a Renaissance class recently and actually did my final paper on how the relationship between Faustus and Mephistopheles is framed as an unhappy marriage. (Barely related, but I just love the idea of playing Faustus as a tragic love story between him and Mephistopheles rather than a straight-up morality play?)
@ladydark623
@ladydark623 6 жыл бұрын
Marlowe was the Jim Morrison of his day
@kengisamasempisankun
@kengisamasempisankun 7 жыл бұрын
Once again, absolutely brill! keep up the good work FF :D
@LOCKEYJ
@LOCKEYJ 4 жыл бұрын
He is a definite collaborator of Shakespeare Definitely sexually open but not gay in the way we think of that term today. Those lines are modern drawn. However, I guess what’s important is that he certainly wasn’t ‘straight’ and celebrated homerotic love. In that sense, if his example helps people in their understanding of their sexuality then the ‘marlowe was gay’ narrative is broadly part of a good thing. Even if not literally accurate. I’d rather we celebrate his complex sexuality as and have him as a gay icon than get bogged down in being precise Certainly not an atheist, his work and activities in service to the crown show this. He was however - like with his sexuality - spiritually non-conforming and incredibly critical of religious power structures. The specific accusations of atheism were dubious at best, and the list of thought crimes particularly without merit.
@11jokerchen11
@11jokerchen11 7 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this video, I had just studied a bit of Marlowe's life and works for uni and was intrigued by it and your video is the answer to all my curiosities! And I also started watching Will because of you and am very happy about it! I'd love it if you continued making videos like this about historical/literary figures that are believed to have been lgbt by today's ideas (and that people often don't know about).
@Draconicrose
@Draconicrose 7 жыл бұрын
I didn't even know who this guy was. Seems pretty convincing evidence to me!
@-somatryoshka
@-somatryoshka 6 жыл бұрын
So Marlow is most likely gay and he probably inspired Mercutio... No wonder I connected with the character so much when I played him
@YeomanLocksly
@YeomanLocksly 3 жыл бұрын
As for keeping Marlowe's portrait for to long, scholars are not even certain that the portrait is in fact Marlowe.
@PaulSinghSelhi-VFX-TUTORIALS
@PaulSinghSelhi-VFX-TUTORIALS 4 ай бұрын
Special Effects Horror ? Can you imagine Dr Faustus being played to an illiterate Elizabethan audience ..the demonic stage set...the gunpowder flash and a real demon appears on stage and torments a well drunk audience. It must have been mayhem !! Bit like a Frankie Boyle gig.
@timmyman1997
@timmyman1997 5 жыл бұрын
He didn't exactly hide the people he decided to bonk in the bum way
@jamiee7367
@jamiee7367 4 жыл бұрын
Along with the Idea that Marlowe was the inspiration for the characterization of Mercutio in _Romeo & Juliet,_ I've seen another theory that Marlowe was also the inspiration behind Jaques in _As You Like It._
@boogiesmell5181
@boogiesmell5181 2 ай бұрын
His murder was sanctioned by the Queen. There can be little doubt about this. It's deeply sad how such an illustrious, intelligent, educated, outspoken and conflicted poet would die such a violent and early death. He was ahead of his time 😢 F
@spookisghostly4619
@spookisghostly4619 6 жыл бұрын
Well by that logic I am no fool
@Stephen-Fox
@Stephen-Fox 7 жыл бұрын
More historic figure than author, though she was an opera singer at least so there is something of a connection to your usual fare, but maybe the swordswoman and opera singer Julie d'Aubigny, who once rescued her lover from a nunnery, covering the escape with an act of arson, for future topics?
@EugeneXar
@EugeneXar 7 жыл бұрын
Awesome video! Got to get me some Marlowe! Already a fan of Shakespeare. Thank you for the hot tip. Best wishes.
@JeanHurley
@JeanHurley 2 ай бұрын
Some scholars say that the portrait is not Marlowe, but Robert Greene.
@boogiesmell5181
@boogiesmell5181 2 ай бұрын
I hope not, as Greene was one of the most vocal and shameless critics of his peers and doesn't seem like he was a very pleasant person at all. He played his part in the downfall and undoing of Marlowe. I hate the idea that his face would now be generally known as the face of Kit Marlowe... no I don't buy into this at all, not without credible proof, which we will never have (either way).
@boogiesmell5181
@boogiesmell5181 2 ай бұрын
I looked into this, and it's 100% not a portrait of Robert Greene. Don't know who told you it was even a possibility. The portrait was discovered in 1953 at Corpus Christi University in Canterbury, which Marlowe had attended. Marlowe was a student there from 1580-87. The painting carries an inscription which suggests the sitter is 21, and that the year was 1585. Marlowe was born 1564. Greene was born 1558. Case closed.
@ladydark623
@ladydark623 6 жыл бұрын
Only Marlowe would know if he was gay or not.
@fandommusings5302
@fandommusings5302 6 жыл бұрын
I mean, that's true of all people. But we are going speculating given the evidence we have.
@jonsnor4313
@jonsnor4313 5 жыл бұрын
Was he happy?
@drearperry8727
@drearperry8727 5 жыл бұрын
He's an Aquarius... nuff said
@user-bj8wb1rb7q
@user-bj8wb1rb7q 6 жыл бұрын
you sound like my history teacher
@cacyc3227
@cacyc3227 6 жыл бұрын
I love Dr Faustus I just ordered it.
@positrondecay4784
@positrondecay4784 5 жыл бұрын
0:21 ...in a barfight.
@christianskinner8944
@christianskinner8944 5 жыл бұрын
Great video! But all this information isn't very helpful if you don't post any of your sources.
@eartianwerewolf
@eartianwerewolf 6 жыл бұрын
Yeah friendships between men had a romantic aspect to them too so it makes it tricky (men could kind of 'court' each other ) . Like you could be closer to your male friend than you could ever be to your wife....we have kind of spun that around and now husband and wife are at the top of the intimacy chart.
@bruhgurl9621
@bruhgurl9621 5 жыл бұрын
everytime i read faust i feel the gay between mephsto and faust its my ship ..
@sirusfan8890
@sirusfan8890 5 жыл бұрын
Marlowes Faust or Goethes Faust?
@bruhgurl9621
@bruhgurl9621 5 жыл бұрын
@@sirusfan8890 both of them lmao
@sirusfan8890
@sirusfan8890 5 жыл бұрын
Okay You know the German Version?
@bruhgurl9621
@bruhgurl9621 5 жыл бұрын
@@sirusfan8890 yeah i've read it
@bruhgurl9621
@bruhgurl9621 5 жыл бұрын
@@sirusfan8890 although i like marlowe's version better
@erikkr.r.m7380
@erikkr.r.m7380 3 жыл бұрын
So basically if someone never Maries and critizided a religious order of england at the time is a gay atheist?
@jinnieshyun
@jinnieshyun 5 жыл бұрын
i totally ship *Willstopher*
@hyhyhyhyhy1629
@hyhyhyhyhy1629 3 жыл бұрын
Hey blink
@jinnieshyun
@jinnieshyun 3 жыл бұрын
@@hyhyhyhyhy1629 omfg hi a kpop stan here? we-
@hyhyhyhyhy1629
@hyhyhyhyhy1629 3 жыл бұрын
😀 yeh big kpop Stan you-
@liminal_spice1712
@liminal_spice1712 5 жыл бұрын
Can you make an lgbtq literature/anime and analysis related playlist please? Thanks...
@samuel56551
@samuel56551 Жыл бұрын
Supergay? Is he like Superman ?
@Ranginthetrap
@Ranginthetrap 6 жыл бұрын
Give me this channel because you not posting and I want to keep it going
@StefanTravis
@StefanTravis 5 жыл бұрын
How can someone be a heretic _and_ an atheist?
@tracik1277
@tracik1277 5 жыл бұрын
Stefan Travis both terms meant essentially the same thing back in the day
@StefanTravis
@StefanTravis 5 жыл бұрын
@@tracik1277 Actually, no. Many years ago as a theology student, I wanted to know whether atheism was classified a heresy. Answer: You need to be _inside_ the church, and a professing believer, to be a heretic. Thus professing atheists can't be heretics.
@planettyler4582
@planettyler4582 4 жыл бұрын
I love your videos on Miyazaki’s films as you have a great insight into them but seriously? Was Christopher Marlowe gay? What difference does it make if he was or wasn’t? If gender equality is what we’re striving for it shouldn’t matter at all.
@dyerwantsumgas
@dyerwantsumgas 6 жыл бұрын
He was Shakespere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@sirusfan8890
@sirusfan8890 5 жыл бұрын
I think so too.
@jamiee7367
@jamiee7367 4 жыл бұрын
I'm not entirely convinced
@SoulAmatus
@SoulAmatus 6 жыл бұрын
I’m here from will lol 😝
@AmjadAli-qk3vc
@AmjadAli-qk3vc 4 ай бұрын
Yeah exactly Marlow was gay
@catsuki5554
@catsuki5554 3 жыл бұрын
oh marlow definitely was gay and no one can convince me otherwise.
@positrondecay4784
@positrondecay4784 5 жыл бұрын
He was totally bi.
@daver8521
@daver8521 6 жыл бұрын
A spy? Certainly. Gay? Almost certainly no. There is nothing in Marlowe's writings that would believe anyone to believe he was gay. Or an atheist. In fact, there is much that indicates the opposite. We do not know if he ever married, or if he had relations with anyone - male or female. I can only think that you have never read Marlowe. As far as "Hero and Leander" goes, you can't write a play or poem based on Greek myth without some homoerotic content - that doesn't reflect on the author. Why don't you quote the passage where Poseidon attempts to seduce Leander: Leander made reply,: "You are deceived; I am no woman, I." And Marlowe certainly shows no sympathy to Edward II in his play. You are just repeating what you have read in some silly master's thesis.
@markw-s5734
@markw-s5734 5 жыл бұрын
daver8521 I would say you’ve got it turned around. There’s more evidence of him being gay and an atheist than there is of him being a spy.
@timmyman1997
@timmyman1997 5 жыл бұрын
He was going to be executed for being an atheist. All evid3nce we have of the man leads one to presume he is gay. Every academic i have met who have studied early-modern writers have said that we can presume he was an atheist, assume he was gay and that he may have been a spy.
@John_Greek
@John_Greek 5 жыл бұрын
He was killed because he was Catholic. In the Protestant days if you were secretly Catholic you were an ‘atheist’. Look it up. Everything daver says is correct
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