You are correct

That slow zoom out actually killed me. I didn’t know if I should laugh or cry.

@@bassdrumflextime1253 Thanks for your insightful comment

As it should be

Based on the urbanism dystopia comment, @CityNerd should to either a collaboration or an interview with James Howard Kunstler.

All his videos are becoming all beige

The Vegas things is bizarre, I'm way more ok with cars than he is and I would never in a trillion years spend more than 48 hours in Vegas

I don't see how any urbanist could live in Vegas

@@tylersmith4265 he addresses this

I was gona say something boring like „what happenend to the white balance of your camera?“, but your comment is soooo much better! 😊

Yeah and there's no housing included. This is no different than a strip mall. I don't know why people would want to go there, maybe they're so starved for normal human infrastructure they take anything.

I do not see that a problem. But then I do not know my neighbors. I like walkable areas where to spend time but not in my own neighborhood. It would be boring if I was limited to the are where I can walk.

@@okaro6595 Oh, I like to walk in new places too, but I also like to walk in places where I run into people I know. Something about it soothes the soul. Plus you never know when you'll need your neighbor, when some emergency comes up, so it's good to take the time to get to know them when you're not in need, if they're willing. Sadly some people are not. It's also rewarding to be able to reciprocate when my neighbor needs something. It's a safety net. There's an old proverb, "Better a neighbor near by than a brother far away."

Much of the heat is due to the urban heat island effect. Folks should demand different developments instead.

Exact same life kids in SoCal high desert have

Where do you live now? As City Nerd said, now in December you can be outside (in skimpy summer clothes, I say) to eat or do outdoor stuff. Try doing that here now in Canada where we have a snowstorm coming! And there are "lifestyle centers" here in Canada too. Even in a so called "have not" province like Nova Scotia.

And the people are complaining that kids are not going outside but staying inside playing videogames or getting radicalized online.

@@michaelrmurphy2734 Humans shouldn't live in a place where they can only be outside in December. Even in Yakutsk people go outside more often.

I was actually surprised by that too. Where I'm from "entrepreneurs" started investing in open-air malls instead of massive multi-story shopping centers, so I was always thinking the lifestyle centers were the same thing, or the inspiration to my malls. It's mental that even they aren't fully pedestrian. Most places I know have basic wheelchairs at the entrance by the security, and you're free to take one if grandma can't walk far. Bought too much? Wheel your shopping cart to your car and leave it in the collection spot in the parking lot. I was also surprised by lack of people in the video, though that might be intentionally shot to respect people's privacy. I'd have expected to see a lot of people walking around with a couple of shopping bags, since it's the gift shopping season. This setup still feels incredibly uninviting, I know plenty of arterial streets in my home city with store fronts dotted everywhere and sidewalks wide enough to welcome groups larger than 4.

I could see surface parking used as a placeholder for future expansion, but I would agree that having both an abundance of surface lots and parking structures is a bit overkill.

No no, that’s explicitly by design! These people are in the business of managing parking! They know precisely how useless those “street parking” spaces are! The reason why those parking spaces are included and why those “main streets” look the way they do is because they are simulating a very particular style of an early 20th century street design, a distinctly American main street! They want to create a specific ambiance - that of an affluent American streetcar suburb that was wealthy enough to have retained its architectural and street design. These places are so expensive these days that the traditional main streets have become a symbol of multigenerational wealth and prosperity. Basically, these “lifestyle centers” are simulating “money” - a rich neighborhood with traditional, old-timey American retail.

@@TohaBgood2 Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering why these supposedly pedestrian friendly places still dedicate the majority of their space to the 20 cars that drive there each hour.

It's because they want it to look like a town. And no actual town in America has a pedestrian zone lined by commerce. Large cities barely have it. Without roads it would feel more like an outdoor mall, which is a 'negative' stigma the builders want to avoid being associated with.

Or young. All the rules restricting kids and teenagers having fun is ridiculous. If you read further down, they will kick out kids who are there during school hours. And of course, they reserve the right to kick out "juveniles" if there are too many of them in one spot. This place is for the old, rich boomers, you whippersnappers!!!

How do you lot think that these types of places work in walkable cities in Europe? It’s exactly the same! The gendarmes, or the carabinieri, or the polizei are constantly patrolling those public spaces in pairs and enforcing the exact same type of ruleset! I’m sorry, but this suburban American idea that public spaces can just “exist” with zero enforcement except a patrol car passing through every three days is complete boomer nonsense! 80 years of suburban car dependency in the US have made us completely forget how public spaces work, but this exactly how things always were! Yes, public spaces are extremely vulnerable to a small percentage of the population misbehaving and trashing the place. You need pretty intense on-foot enforcement (or the threat of enforcement) to keep these types places clean and inviting to everyone. You can see what happens to this European-style walkability without European-style policing in places like San Francisco! It degrades into a mess of endless security guards, “ambassadors”, and private cops! Or there’s just pure mayhem without the specialized security. Yes, the draconian rules posted in this particular mall are ridiculous and clearly discriminatory. But that is just because they don’t want to spend too much money on enforcement and are cranking up “the threat of enforcement” instead. In reality, you still need to choose some mix of these two to make a public space work. That’s just how large groups of people function. It’s not optional!

@@Luboman411 well actually when children are somewhere they should not be during school hours then they should be maybe not kicked out but the school should be called and the parents.

@@TohaBgood2 I've lived in Spain and the U.S. for large parts of my life and there is a huge difference in police presence. In Spain you forget the police exist and hearing sirens is rare despite having waaaaay higher density than anywhere I've lived in the U.S. In crowded pedestrian streets with like 3,000 people crammed into a strip smaller than a Walmart you might see a cop on a bike somewhere, if at all, and nothing happens. People are drinking too, but I've never seen a fight, theft, etc. Meanwhile in the U.S. people and places are spread sooooo far apart, there's cops patrolling everywhere all the time, and drinking outside is illegal, yet there are more problems. I don't know enough to explain why these differences exist, probably several factors. If I had to guess it's mostly the social conditioning of the population combined with high poverty, high stress, and isolation leading to behavioral problems. But mainly I wanted to refute the claim that towns and cities and Europe work thanks to heavyhanded policing.

@@Luboman411 why shouldn’t they ? Kids are supposed to be in school during school hours

and what if we linked them with some sort of transport that had public access

and build houses in between

Nah. Not crazy. Not “crazy.” /

Imagining a dozen lifestyle centers each surrounded by thousands of empty parking spaces.

They actually are popping up.. especially in Arizona lol Kierland commons is literally across the street from Scottsdale quarter 😳

The answer to all of CN's issues is: density. In modern times it only occurs in epicenter cities.

If you're in a big city why would they build a lifestyle center there? You have the real thing, you don't need one. Of course it's gonna be a 30 minute drive, it's not for you guys Lifestyle centers are for us who *don't* want to live in a big city, but still like having some level of urbanism in our lives, when we want a night on the town.

Is it the Glen in Glenview? That place gives me the "lifestyle center" vibe.

@@CSDragon it’s like near beer,though. Why bother?

@@manmasher what? What does beer have anything to do with anything

I always knew I enjoyed those stores but didn’t realize it was simulated urbanism, wow

it's all about the money...

I hate how teens are demonized, even in spaces where they could be paying customers. There's a movie theater in my city that banned unaccompanied teens, and I just don't understand why we as a society take away all the fun things that they should be able to do in public in favor of pushing them to stay inside and out of sight.

Out here in SoCal, all-out brawls between groups of teens in public spaces are far from an uncommon situation. There was one just a few days ago in Torrance, with supposedly over 1000 participants. If unaccompanied minors want the freedom to hang out in large groups in public spaces, they need to start self-policing. Do you think places like this want fewer patrons buying things? Of course not, but they also don't want random brawls breaking out.

These are great because they can bring a lot of stores into your residential neighborhoods. Plus, they bring in more tax revenue for your cities. It's getting more jobs and fantastic stores into your town without bringing in more residents who will compete against you and your family. These should help boost nearby neighborhoods' property values as people like to go and walk around for shopping occasionally. Could you build a substantial regional park next to one of these to pull in people from the other side of the city or nearby cities? ... I think so, make sure to build second-floor office space and a gym to make sure you provide enough economic energy that the locals would enjoy and help get approved.

How many hundred years ago were you young and in what location? Vegas has a high teen violent crime rate and stores don't exclude them without reason.

What you've described is basically the urban core of every US city that had a sizeable population by the turn of the 20th century. These places are now mostly car-dependent hellholes, but the shadow of car-free design is still there as it was inherent to their settling and expansion of those cities in the first place. Newer urban developments, on the other hand, I'm afraid are going to be impossibly hard to salvage. I'm looking at you, the majority of the southwest US.

Yeah it's what people want but not the real deal and not at home.

From Santa Ana. Yeah these lifestyle centers like the Irvine Spectrum really have this artificial feel. It just being there to shop lacks the walkable feeling of being in a neighborhood in say New York

A lifestyle center that works is Glendale, California's Americana. It seems to integrate well int to the downtown and it compliments the adjacent mall.

lmfao, a plane every so seconds. what a waste of money.

Haven't been to the Spectrum, but it not only has a Yard House and a PF Chang's, but it has a Cheesecake Factory too! It just doesn't get better than that

When I first started watching this video, I was like "oh yeah like City Centre in Houston or the Domain in Austin or the ones in San Antonio or DFW" and then he said yardhouse and I realized I've been to two of those Yard Houses.

Lol there's only one YardHouse in my area and yes it's in a quasi big box semi life style center strip mall on a stroad (perhaps the most hated thoroughfare in the area lol). However it's actually not very "lifestyle center"-esque. It's not that fancy but maybe that's because a few miles away there's one of the best downtowns in the country.

What a strange new world of urban design, a car centric downtown circled by car parking which is surrounded by gated communities...

Thanks for pointing this out. It has an interesting circular downtown layout but it is mostly a parking lot, maybe only a slightly-improved suburb. What is the closest transit connection to it? Do buses enter the subdivision? So more like "escape (bad-planning decisions) rooms".

@@kms1.62 You might be thinking of that weird center-ish area with the circular streets that seems to be a cluster of medical and legal business parks centered around a library. (The town council actually meets at a community center in a park in the middle of a development.) DT Summerlin is south of the Red Rock - the one positive is that there was undeveloped land around the lifestyle center, on which the new ballpark and Golden Knights training arena were recently built. It's served by a couple of buses, including the "Sahara Express" (which has a pretty crazy number of stops for something called an "Express").

Ya sure he didn't take a bus most of the way?

I embrace the insanity

20 Cheesecake Factories each with a majestic statue of the Supreme Leader welcoming patrons.

Said the Wisconsonite.

Don't let the name fool you, it only gives you the illusion of efficiency.

I was confused when I read "DPRK," then I saw your username and now it all makes sense.

@@lifeinhd4053 DPRK = the anything-but-democratic, anything-but-people's, anything-but-a-republic of North Korea.

I commented somewhere else pretty much the same experience. Carson to Charlston wasn't bad. Loved all the public art. Fremont is touristy, but very walkable with tons of great restaurants and people watching. If I was a local, I'd still walk up there a lot.

I hope you saw the place, in the downtown area, called HEART ATTACK GRILL, where it states, in neon letters, that if you weigh over 350 pounds, you eat for free. Nothing says 'Merica quite like that does!

Probably cause it was built just before the whole “suburban car boom”

It’s beautiful over there

I would disagree with you on Broadway Plaza being a "lifestyle center". I grew up near there. Most of buildings that make up Plaza have been there for decades. There was some construction to unify the look of the place. But, it is really how Walnut Creek's downtown over time. The parking garage isn't that bad. It is kind of hidden. You have to drive out there because the "County Connection" sucks.

Good stuff! I was pretty shocked to see the Korean Air flight land on 1L instead of 26L -- 26L is where the big long haul flights land!

@@CityNerd Well it depends on wind direction

Honestly, if you're *gonna* build a gigantic pile of surface parking and retail, I can think of worse places to do it than wedging it in between a highway interchange and an airport runway.

@@foamyesque In Canada it seems common to build these places, called outlet malls, near airports where space is cheaper because it's in the airport development area. They also want all highway and air travelers possible.

I befriended a few Koreans a while back. They both adored Vegas and really wanted to visit. The way they described the strip made it seem like some other-worldly paradise. Granted, Las Vegas is cool and all, but I guess there's some sort of international appeal that Americans, especially those who live in or near the area, just wouldn't have considered.

I think the area south of Fremont Street Experience is coming up. The arts district has a lot of shops and restaurants mixed with low and mid rise residential. I worked up there a few weeks in September for Life is Beautiful and was riding my bike from the venue around to the south entrance at the Nugget, on Bidger, and as soon as I got off Fremont it felt like it was all locals in those neighborhoods. Lots of people on foot and bikes, busses, etc. Carson to Charleston, basically.

A city where all the nice spaces are geared principally to tourists is typically a pretty miserable place to live. Either you end up in the outskirts built on the cheap within the last couple decades or you live surrounded by tourists, have trouble finding basic amenities in between the tourist shops, and pay a premium for everything.

@@traveller23e In Vegas, pretty much everyone lives in the “outskirts” of the strip. There’s not really any housing on the strip (other than downtown Vegas cause it’s old). It makes the traffic horrible cause so many people commuting towards the Strip for work and what not.

This should be in the dictionary along with "Paradigm" and "Dang Gummit"

I've always wanted a term just for their look

I'm more about that P.F. Chang's oriental theme park myself.

No maybe about it - Manhattan IS the most urban place in the country.

His contents lately are becoming pointless.. Hes whining like jobless to make himself feel better and then he will deny hes a hater 🤪🤪

Yup! Can't wait to see its rival finish being built on Parmer, though the surrounding land use isn't as good (literally empty).

@@lifeinhd4053 did you see the plans that just came out for the Pickle research campus just south of the domain? Pretty exciting development!

@@dilliam1702 I did not! And everything I'm finding is from 2019 or before. Got a link?

I live in the Domain. Super weird lifestyle center. South of Dick's Sporting Goods is a ghost town.

Im so glad more people are starting to realize how truly awful lifestyle centers are for urbanism." They arent. They just tick off people that think that suburban places should not have them....because it offends their sensibilities >Lifestyle centers are atrocious car-centric developments and are perfect examples of faux or simulated urbanism "simulated urbanism" isnt a thing. Is "real urbanism" only something that can exist in approved places? These people are starting from scratch, but they arent allowed to because as long as they still accommodate the reality of cars, then they should just build more enclosed malls? >it’s so sad that the US emulates walkable places for commercial zones rather than actually changing zoning laws for real mixed-use pedestrian oriented developments Changing a zoning law isnt going to result in old town Countrytime Lemonade main streets to just pop up. There isnt some massive pent-up demand for this stuff or else in cities with those different zoning laws would be full of construction. And if you did change them, it would take DECADES to develop the places you rather walk through, as the "real thing" took that long to do it organically in the past.

@@WillmobilePlus you’re saying there’s not some massive pent-up demand for a real walkable city etc. but there IS or they wouldn’t be thousands watching this video!!!!

@@WillmobilePlus It would NOT necessarily take decades !!!!! to develop places to be more walkable and have a real town center as it did in the past since people have more modern technology to develop things along with computers and machines plus if people really want to get a thing done it can sometimes really get done quickly.

@@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 Ok? Thousands of people watching a video =/= anything to a builder that needs to secure funding and a developer that wont get it these days without a tenant lined-up. >It would NOT necessarily take decades !!!!! It will certainly take at least 20 years to rehab a traditional shopping district of a decent number of buildings. I live by one. The first rehab was back in around 2001, and 22 years later there are just starting on the two last bordered-up structures. There are STILL a couple of places that need rehabbing, and significant parcels that need something built on them. And this is an area my city touts in promotional material and is very popular. Starting from scratch? You are looking at 2x that > to develop places to be more walkable and have a real town center as it did in the past since people have more modern technology to develop things along with computers and machines plus if people really want to get a thing done it can sometimes really get done quickly. Uh.....no. That's not remotely a factor. I WISH it was, but a fast computer and power tools isnt making this quicker.

City Nerd's outlook on historical, non-multiplex theaters is the kind of content I need and didn't know was available.

Sadly a lot of these have fallen by the wayside recently at least where I am in Seattle: Guild 45th, Harvard Exit, Seven Gables, among others. The company that ran some of these did a poor job keeping them up and the movie offerings weren't unique enough. Meanwhile the Uptown and Egyptian theaters in the urban core of Seattle are part of SIFF (non-profit indie organization / film festival) and those venues have seemingly done well by offering an eclectic offering of movies and special events. It would be interesting to see a deep dive on this for sure

@@seattlesharksfan Movies in Seattle are expensive, here on Vashon it is $10, but in the city it goes up for like $15+. During covid when drive-ins were the only way of seeing movies in the theater, we had $20 a car here on Vashon, but my friends reported like $40-$50 a car. By the way the theater here on the island is doing fine, and is kind of an amazing theater. Shows the occasional old movies, sells coffee and beer, basic seats, no gimmicks, quiet audience, etc.

@@rokksula4082 Drive-in theatres seemed to be the only car-centric businesses that largely did not stick around in the era of making everything car-centric

They used to be so much more important. The Hollywood neighborhood in Portland is named after the theater; I imagine the Grand Lake neighborhood in Oakland predates the theater of the same name, but who knows? It does feel like the centerpiece of that neighborhood!

It's also next to Stevens Creek Boulevard. It has a rapid bus route with signal priority and the corridor is being studied for rapid transit. The 60 Winchester bus also goes to the airport and BART

Sometimes there are protests/demonstrations near the intersection of the 2 major stroads there, especially along the pedestrian right-of-way abutting Santana Row - which contributes to my sense that Santana Row feels like a more genuine urban space, less of a simulacrum than the Las Vegas center in the video. There are also a number of small businesses, small medical practices, and residential neighborhoods nearby.

I wish that were true, but I can tell you that up here in Canada they are also being built in far too great a number. Seems like no one has thought out very well what a pain they are when it's 30 below. Although one of the new ones rear me did just open up a skating rink. Ffs.

Quartier Dix30 and Centropolis are both right next to Montreal, Quebec, Canada. They are not typical of year-yound summer areas, they are typical of North America.

They have pretty decent food, tbf.

@@jesot Nashville hot chicken sandwich with extra spicy slaw is banging 🤤

@@jesot The food is indeed good and they are usually very liberal in their sampling policy to the point I can drink 5 2oz. cups for free before committing.

The only thing similar to this I have seen here in Italy is called "Outlet Village", next to the "Mantova Sud" exit of tolled highway A22. There are restaurants and all kinds of clothing brands, surrounded by a large parking lot. No smashing of fax machines though...

The bad urbanism in Hawai'i makes more sense when you realize it's just Japan's outlet mall.

Best food court I’ve ever been to and like 5 minutes from the beach though.

Not inexplicable. Built up as part of the US, and par for the course.

@@mattchtx 5 minutes for who? the beach is also cut off by a 6 lane stroad and it actually took me 20 minutes to get inside the “lifestyle center” from outside

Yeah I don’t think it’s very relaxing to eat outside alfresco with planes coming every minute or less unless you’re a train spotter.

I meant to write unless you a plane spotter

I think another good indicator is when more than 80% of the stores and restaurants are locally owned, one of a kind places. Very few or no chain stores or franchises.

Most lifestyle centers in Vegas have some farmers market like once a week. Still hate having to drive to them tho

Can’t be too early for city nerd

Riff-raff is getting bad in many places.

@ghost mall yeah bro, keep feeling sorry for people who hate you and want to ruin your day at all costs. And I will keep walking around in places where I don't get screamed at.

Santa Monica Promenade predates lifestyle centers according to Google and I wouldn’t consider it as such. It would indeed be nice if these lifestyle centers did turn into something like Santa Monica promenade by adding nearby high density dwellings. It’s such a cool place to hang out along with its pier.

Santa Monica's Third Street Promenade doesn't qualify as a lifestyle center. The Grove at Farmers Market does meet that criteria. While I find it generally synthetic, I personally believe it to be somewhat of a "success". Perhaps, because it anchored by a well loved LA food and tourist destination---the Farmers Market @ Third & Fairfax. It's also part of a specific area In Los Angeles that could really use just this type of added shopping option.

At least with underground parking, it is out of the way. One issue i think would be maintenance, plus the ramps needed to access the parking deck.

Not Just Bikes just had a piece about this in his newest video.The TL;DW is that while it makes the streetscape better it encourages driving and is extremely costly to build.

I have heard them nicknamed "disney downtowns" for this reason

They built one of these fairly recently near where I live here in Torrance, adjacent to the Del Amo fashion center. It's modest, by lifestyle center standards and features more down-to-earth stores like Old Navy. I actually wouldn't mind it except for the fact that they insist on piping loud music over a sound system to force a festive atmosphere which just makes me want to run screaming to the nearest library.

But...it's the happiest place on earth. Don't you like happiness?

Easton was the first place I thought of when I was watching this video. Been to Columbus pretty frequently since 2000 and the growth and repurposing of the space has been interesting for sure

Same here I did a ctl+f looking for the Easton comment. Polaris was built only a few years later about 10 miles away as a traditional mall and they scrambled to build an outdoor lifestyle area tacked onto one side of the mall to compete.

@@TheRetarp That's right. They tore down the Kaufmann's building and replaced it with a Promenade with the only thing note worthy is the Barnes & Nobles.

I remember when Easton opened and I was in high school. Everyone wanted to go there except me who thought it was horrifying. Then I ended up living down the stroad and working in retail hell for 4 years...

Giant imposing warehouse is much more efficient. Get back in line, citizen-consumer

That city idea is excellent, it would highlight some smaller approaches to urbanism in the near future which is always fascinating.

daily riders on metro systems, maybe?

when's a CC coming? maybe an ag center a la Elkus Ranch?

But...but...do they have Crazy Taxi?? J/K thanks for the explanation. I do love co-op gaming, so I can't hate.

Sounds like the evolution of the cyber cafe

Yes, and it must include The Grand Cinema in Tacoma, WA. It's one of only two places that draw me to downtown, the other place being Dorky's Arcade.

@@jazzcatjohn yeah the AMC metreon in downtown sf is the same for me I love going there

City Place in WPB too. Also near the brightline and trirail stations.

I heard that place was creepy, connected to Jeffery and his creepy Island.

What in God's name are you doing over there LOL

As a Peoria native I recommend staying away from East Peoria and the North part of town, Peoria has much better bones than most Southwestern cities but a lot of that has been neglected sadly, Peoria Heights is doing a lot of good work when it comes to housing access (replacing a free-standing subway with condos). The warehouse district, West Bluff, Peoria Heights, and downtown are nice areas to walk around as well, though downtown could be a bit livelier.

@@ivy_47 Affordable housing is readily available and its an old growth city. Its not perfect but it has a lot of potential.

@@oryender6895 Well, Ive found the same while in Normal. Our college apartment was 700/month for 4 bedrooms, and my roommates are still there enjoying the price. It's merely 3 blocks away from the walkable downtown ("uptown") and Amtrak/bus station!

@@ivy_47 We're working on that Amtrak access, we have a former Transportation Secretary on our side, and there are some nice walkable neighborhoods, West Bluff, Peoria heights, the warehouse district and downtown are good areas of Peoria.

I think the reason SLC is better set up is the size of the blocks. By being so big, they need to fill the inside of the block and thus, have more walking access. I don't live there though, that's just my thought from google earthing it.

Bethesda MD has a similar shopping neighbourhood

I agree and this fake city center has no groceries or stores that are not high-end to shop for clothes and other items.

Yeah I thought about using Atlantic Station because I wanted an example from the southern US, but Alpharetta was such a more egregious example

You beat me to the punch. My take on Atlanic Station is quite positive, however, beacuse I remember what stood there not much more that twenty years ago. It was a huge EPA Brownsite where once stood the Atlantic Steel mill. The story of the cleanup, financing, design and development of the project, and it's effect on the city generally is quite interesting.

@@CityNerd Probably the right call for the overall pitch about these things being toxic. I see a parallel conversation at play about the interaction between governments and developers who use Atlantic Stations and Blue Back Squares as earnest attempts to upzone and densify.

Reston was my first experience with these centers and set the bar for me. Lots of apartment buildings and no parking moat. Then I discovered Mosaic which is all that plus supermarkets. Both are a short bus ride (or a half hour walk) to metro stops now. Even Fairfax Corner and Stonebridge which have moats do at least have apartments. I think a promising thing about these centers is that they are not the all the same (like indoor malls were) and they are trying different ways to add urbanization features, some better than others.

Not sure I agree with the "too large for a downtown" concept. New York City seems to do ok. The traditional big city downtown of the 20th century was that the suburbs held everyday and kid friendly shopping and entertainment. For anything unusual or upscale you took the big trip downtown. Sears was in the suburbs, Saks Fifth Avenue was ... on Fifth Avenue, Manhattan. I'm not saying this was a good model, but it worked at the time. I grew up in a Long Island suburb in the 1960s; I remember the once a year trips downtown my mom took me on (we rode the commuter train).

@@lizcademy4809 I said too large for a single downtown. NYC includes multiple town centers.

Used to live right by it. It's nice but hard to get around. Somehow still feels like everything is too far away from each other and there aren't really shuttles all over the place. And yes, that light rail is too far. It also ends really early too so it's not very useful for staying out late or for catching up with someone on the fly.