tbh, it is ridiculously OP and to a meme-worthy level at that. Just play what you think is fun.

As a Machine Ringworld main, I feel you :(

No. Just go cyborg. Never give up the perfect race.

Don't worry. This team they put together for this purpose consists entirely of people hired to fill quotas, not because of talent and skill. So, the fix will probbaly create more exploits than the update!

sad :_D

Actually, you can, if you choose the Synthetic Ascension perk but at the same time have a clone colonyship you can basically make another 100 Clone Pops since your colonyship will have the clone pops meaning you can continue growing them

A clone democracy

@@nicolasfischer816 This doesn't work. Give it a go if you want.

@@dom6637 why dont

i tested that out and actually it doesnt work for some inexplicable reason (aka the devs messed up) lithoids are affected by organic pop assembly speed so u cant just run a food deficit if u are a clone army and if u cant do that u might as well not go for catalytic processing since its less efficient than just using minerals

@@linkhidalgogato ah yes. But starbases can produce food. Without using pop jobs. So if you manage your star base cap: produce more alloys based on starbase availability. Leaving your pops to produce useful minerals and alloys and research without anyone ultimately doing unproductive food based jobs (post hydroponics). The hard part is only carefully balancing the economy on a knife edge till you get the techs to boost food output and locate a useful mining world to sustain district production, and a second Food/foundry world with Enough useful agriculture districts and buffs. The minerals will keep your district production high. The science will unlock the technology The alloys will let you conquer and build starbases. And you can minmax your empires production.

​@@linkhidalgogato catalytic processing is absolutely busted with xenophobe. get some slaves and make them into livestock (dont require tiles to produce food) was making 1.5k alloys a month by 2300 using this plus the gene ascension that makes your livestock even more effective. I also never build a food district the entire game (took syncretic evo and started with slaves i made into livestock) which also let me build far more mining and energy districts than I would normally be able to. (keep in mind i also used hydroponics on every starbase i had)

@@linkhidalgogato Even with the malus to pop growth your population is going to be growing pretty fast, and you still sidestep the happiness penalty

@@justinthompson6364 dude u get -75% pop assembly and another negative for being lithoids u end up with 2.7 pop assembly with 3 bats right at the start of the game instead of 30 it just isnt worth it unless u balance ur eco

That sounds about right. 23k was my first attempt!

I love democracy ...

@@MontuPlays we all do

@@MontuPlays I love the Republic...

1.7K to 3 O.O

I think some people purposefully disliked after seeing this comment ✨youtube✨

How would other human empire spawn?

@@Damo2690 You could force the spawn with a custom empire. That is brilliant.

@@shinobi2735 Well at that point there is no point to pick human

Why humans specifically? And why would there be another empire with clone origin?

@@TempestLM Doesn't have to be human, species should be the same. You force spawn another clone empire of the same species and it will go clone decendant path. After you go clone ascendant, conquer the decendant empire and you get both pops at the same time. It may have been fixed already. Same species allows one species empire so you can still be authoritarian and/or xemophobe.

You should do the archaeological site 😉

Nope.

If humans decided to make the world a worse place and create a race of sentient cockroach soldiers the size of dogs but do the whole Clone Vats to keep their population under control? I would not expect A: any cockroach soldiers to look like our species or B: for the universe to accept leaving our population alive without full blown exterminatus on every last trace of our empire in existence.

Nope, that's not the backstory.

All I can think about is having to move 3 -4 unemployed pops from 20-90 overpopulated planets to a planet with jobs and housing EVERY 30 minutes. It’s absolutely ridiculous on console, because it takes for ever to navigate down the resettlement tab with the user face and a controller. Oh, and god forbid you have multiple races on a planet... it takes for ever to scroll down to the bottom to move the unemployed pops. There are no buttons to skip to the bottom and there is no way to filter them to the top. I can wish, though. It’s a serious problem for late late game. You pretty much have to purge or displace other races. Can’t pick xenophile for the trade benefit and envoy because it won’t let you purge... but I like playing as a mega Corp... for role play.

@@LCInfantry Idn how up-to-date stellaris on console is, but... There's a starbase building that gives 100% chance of resettlement every month. So you don't need to micromanage everything, it is just more optimal to.

Even for ps5 version?

Isn't Clone Army an Origin and so is the federated start? how do you get both going at the same time at the start? Sure you can MAKE one later with Tradition choices into Diplomacy tree. People keep commenting on trying this with other Origins and i am like .....HOW? you get only ONE origin start choice.

Just tested it. It works.

@M J why would you want clone admiral tho? Your synth admirals keep clone admiral trait therefore having both clone one and synth one

I wanna try this. I wonder if you could do it with multiple colony ships to have them growing on several planets

@@Nexielas thanks that answers my question :D

So. The solution. Is colony-synthetic-4 clone vat nonsense. Instead of shoving all 5 clone vats on one world: you need two worlds, one with one (seed world). The other with 4(gene mod world). The art is to use the seed world to keep feeding new clones to the Gene Mod world, mod the species on the Gene mod world into a second form every few months/years, and have that species Variant automatically uploaded. Then move just one clone to the 4 vat world to replenish the cycle and enjoy a sustainable 40+ clone production for the rest of the gain. Technically you could keep the seed world at 10 clones and keep pushing clones the onto the high production world for gene modding into your uplift species, to push 40 into the full 50 population output. You will presumably need two foundry worlds. To feed enough alloys into a Ring World production line.

Do they? I thought they only influenced conventional pop growth.

@@Kalidoscope1230 They got buffed in the last update. They give +10% organic pop growth and +10% organic pop assembly now.

I don't think it's worth that extra little bit of pop assembly when your pops could output science or alloys at a +25% rate instead (among other modifiers). If the clones could grow beyond 100 that would surely be worth it. (But even more op.)

@Sanguine This is true. I started playing this one and it has a Extremely strong start with a fairly decent fall off if you are unable to overcome its pop cap limit within a reasonable amount of time, And for your normal players That's a fine thing its a powerful start with a early to mid game hurdle. But you are right about it from a comp sense because those players will find Very effective means to make sure they can overcome it and it will break a comp game.

Yes but I'd argue its a waste of 2 trait points, 0.02 per pop is very little compared to 7 or 10 per clone vat.I think youd rather spend that on intelligent or charismatic...

Aka they can't be used together.

Can you have a budding Slave species and abuse Ancient vats to grow them faster? Could be pretty OP.

You can’t put budding on clone soldiers unfortunately but gene clinics (not a good use of jobs) do work.!

The miner jobs are actually terrible.

tech rush is still king sadly

hey thats not really a bad thing 😂

5x primitives setting baby.

@@fieldy409 that would work too lol

I've never tried this build, but I would still assume the trick to keeping some of your bio pops around after synthetic evolution still works? Even better than normal since you have the clone vats If I understand correct. You might have to delay robot production for a bit though.

Often they are my favourite part of any episode

Yeah I also don’t understand what to do

He talked about how pop growth limit work in a previous video.

If you capture another empires clone vats, it crashes your game. Been reported a bunch now.

@@manaintolerantmage maybe they should automatically be converted into a defective clone facility that churns out food instead of pops. Hey why are you looking at Me like I am some kind of monster? It's mystery meat!

wondering if this got patched yet thinking to give this build a go

​@@redo4986im currently playing a fanatic authortarian and militarist as a clone army, I use robots and enslaved pops to build the rest of my empire after the pop cap of 100Billion, the trade off for infertile.clones os deff worth it no one can withstand our military let alone our invasion forces 😂

Nerfs necessary are redoing their archeology site into a chain that will unlock more vats so they don't just spam them as early as possible for insane pop growth before reaching the option to double down or mod out of it. Nerfs expected are them gutting the pop assembly speed since the other option is too much effort.

@@EliteSpectre32 Unlocking more vats through the archaeological project is an excellent idea to slow the snowball down. Damn man you're right that they'll probably just gut the assembly speed without doing anything to instead.

Thing is, migration treaties exist, and snowballing is a huge factor in long term outcomes.

You can get robots to supplement yourself once the clones stop growing. And of course migration treaties with other empires. Or raiding pops. You have options. Purifiying is possible as clones, but *spoiler* if you go down the fertility path, it allows your clones to grow naturally, losing the ancient clone vats in the process. So that first 100 pops is more like a springboard. Or you can double down on that 100 pop cap (getting an even better trait) and supplement your economy with robots. Note: I haven't tried either way, but it's possible with the mechanics.

@@davidk1308 I'm playing ascendant clones f.p. right now and having a blast, not really OP though just hanging on with barely enough alloys and keeping up on research with debris.

i'd rather go utopian abundance to not care about the unemployed pops

@@comet.x or you could employ them and make them produce a billion energy credits while also being able to simultaneously use the new decadent trait that gives all pops +20% happiness for just +10% consumer goods upkeep

@@invictus7736 having large amounts of alloys and science makes you win wars. Utopian abundance makes unwployed pops peoduce scienxe, and the egalitarian makes your metallurgists make funny alloys

@@comet.x Utopian Abundance costs more consumer goods for exactly the same effect as Decadent Lifestyle. Unemployed pops producing minimal amounts of science don't matter at all as you're pretty much trolling if you have unemployed pops to begin with.

lol

What is default or the norm be? I was wondering what he had too

Oh sweet summer child. Don’t worry, you’ll get your pHD in applied mathematics soon. The trick: it’s all in percentages.

It's bonkers on the scaling you are talking about too.

The trick is to maximize the time spent at 10 pops per clone vat. So at 20 pop you think of adding your third clone vat. At 30 pop you are late with your clone vat already! Your growth will drop from 14 to 10 or 15 even if you produce a third vat. Managing population total is crucial to stabilizing their pop economy.

Clone pops die out without an ancient clone vat (you can have 20 of them on a planet per ancient clone vat on the planet and a max of 5 ancient clone vats). So pushing them off of your planets is the same as killing them really.

@@EliteSpectre32 oft thats harsh fair enough... so going clone army start means a hard cap of 100 pops??? thats pretty harsh...

@@calanjameshunt It's harsh when you think about it in a vacuum but realistically you are getting a big head start due to insane pop growth which lets you easily wipe the floor with one of your neighbors and then just using their pops to keep your empire growing.

@@EliteSpectre32 fair go brother... thanks for the heads up and info... likely would have sunk a few hours into a run before having had noticed that pop hard cap in the early game... im greatful for your time, info and opinion man thank u!!! be well take care mate :D XD

Closest you can get to 0 cost is via auto, but corvee cuts the influence cost so there’s that

I've asked the first one myself but I can answer the other two questions. Even if you could make clones with normal clone vats they'll just die out because they go into decline if there isn't an ancient clone vat for every 20 clone pops. There is currently a bug where you can build a normal cloning vat and lock it to assemble a normal pop then build the 5 ancient clone vats on top of it to boost it's pop assembly speed by an insane amount but that's about it, when this gets fixed a normal clone vat won't do much for your clone pops since by the time you get to bio ascending you'll already have or be close to 100 clone pops. And for the third question yes they'll just die out. I'm not sure if another clone army empire could steal your pops and not have them decay due to them technically having ancient clone vats. Knowing Paradox's Quality Assurance it probably does.

hivemind necrophages are... Awful

@@comet.x I want to see a working non "time to kill my neigbour" build. But that's probably just a dream.

Build more researchers/bureaucrats. Also get a scholarium

@@SalvLav Building too many researchers or bureaucrats will crush your consumer goods.

Not really. In the early game, dedicate 1 of your 3 guaranteed worlds to being a factory world will supply you just fine. Switch over around year 20 from functional architecture to masterful crafters. By the midgame after you've conquered a number of other worlds, another decently sized world dedicated to CG will be enough into the late game.

You don't really need a huge surplus of CG. There isn't a whole lot you can spend them on anyways, they are like a surplus of food

administratir capacity has been changed to empire something, it really doesnt matter much dude like at all

Honestly this'll work with literally anything

The art I have noted? Mineral output is important. So produce Energy to make minerals. Make ALL the minerals. If you are buying more than like 30 minerals a month the cost of minerals starts to climb, so make more minerals with miners instead. Look for mining worlds, settle them. Don't ignore food output, but stations and the market can eliminate short falls, excess food production can mean you can change district types to mineral or Energy generation, why waste good pops to produce a less useful resource? And finally. Clerk jobs suck. Amenities are useful, but clerks suck at producing them. So lock out the job type as far as you can afford, and get more minerals. Why do I hammer on about minerals? Well claiming systems, needs minerals. Alloys need minerals. Consumer goods need minerals. Research needs minerals. Mining stations need minerals. So food keeps pops growing. But minerals run the economy. Minerals feed an empires growth. Minerals are life. But energy is more efficient, and pays for things, like minerals. If you have lots of minerals, producing useful districts, buildings, and other materials is easy. Farmers don't help produce more districts, nor generate research.

@Sanguine so looking at the numbers. A bio nation building pops gets a base 3 pop growth modified by 50% for carrying capacity, so 4.5 growth. And clone vats give 10 each for a maximum of 5. So roughly 12 established colonies built to half capacity for maximum output. The limiting factor is the number of worlds we can build on (2 guaranteed) and how much you have to invest per colony established. As opposed to the total population cap per world for clone vats. 3 worlds, 50 pop of max growth rate, then growth drops from 50 units to 35 or lower. So 8 worlds and diminishing equal. I wonder if the clone vat building needs to start out intentionally nerfed somewhat. To boost production as you complete your clone vat origin anomaly chain to unlock your potential. Instead of starting casually with the ability to out produce pop growth of 10 world empires in the first 20 years of gameplay. Maybe if each is worth 5 initially, and the anomaly chain grows by +1 per event in the chain. Heck have more decisions to modify the impact of how you refine your clone vats, improve your admirals and specialist output, or boost growth rates, or boost sustainability and pop cap per vat and sacrifice a +1 growth per clone vat. You want to boom harder? Boost vat production and sacrifice later traits, or advantages. Want to maximize your potential pop? Own 150 pop cap but lose growth rate and some leader traits and productivity boosts. Let us customize what flavor of clones we are beyond breeders or pure strain clones :p