As a testimony to your point, Dr Vaknin… I have spent DOZENS of hours listening to your videos, trying to process the pain of narcissistic abuse, believing that if I just UNDERSTAND what happened, the pain will subside and I will finally feel better. NO. The more I listen and compare my experience point by point to your perfectly executed teachings, the more I find myself fixated, obsessed, seeking more and more information , thinking this will provide the ‘closure’ I have believed I need. But I do not feel better. This has been, for me, you’re most Practically helpful video. Thank you for all you are doing to bring to light this dark, dank, no-man’s-land of emotional devastation.

This guy blew my mind. He absolutely makes sense, all I need to remember : abuser doesn’t hold the key to your closure, pain is good we need to learn from it just like all entrepreneurs says learn from your mistakes. Thank you.

We create our own closure. Understanding that the Narc is an empty creature helps ease the pain. Help others as it will help you heal.

Profesor Vaknin, please, never stop teaching us. I appreciate you very much... me and many many other people too!

I have been distressed in the past over the insistence of my friends to forgive my abuser. All that advice did was add to my anxiety and make me feel as if I were not a good person because I could not forgive. I felt their insisting on me forgiving eventually became another form of abuse. I ignored their advice, experienced my emotions the way I saw fit, and finally moved beyond what I perceive "forgiveness" to be. I have something I understand and like much better: a feeling of comfort and ease.

I agree! Seeking closure is like doing the same thing expecting different results

Nowhere on KZfaq have I found content with such richness and substance. Thank you for your thoughtfulness and thoroughness.

I was thinking about calling my ex for “closure.” So glad I listened to this before I did. Thank you for providing this video, you saved me from the pain and frustration of trying to obtain something that I can never have.

Journaling seems to lead to clarity rather than closure; I am able to understand myself more, as well as to create a little distance between myself and the problem. It's as if, by writing/drawing, the process lifts me away, makes me feel lighter.

The closure costed me ALOT. Wish I could just let go. I don't even know what I thought I would get...the truth, an apology ?? The closure was the most abusive of everything I've been through with this evil entity

Totally agree. “Ending pain is a myth”

Hope is not a strategy, and will keep one holding onto a fantasy or illusion as their life wastes Away and passes them by. This is so helpful about closure and confirms I’ve been on the correct path to provide my own closure. I always see a quote that says “let their disrespect be all the closure you need.” The abusive narcissist ex can never give anyone closure. They would only take the opportunity to spew one last lashing of verbal vitriol, and cast all blame on you for any and everything. Sam- you are a gift to all of us and will never know your value in our lives and our healing and thriving adventure!

I am deeply moved....integrate my pain into who I am and learning from it....in my darkest hours I felt this instinctively and was trying to wallow in this grief. I am so grateful that my instinct is so correct and is proven even scientifically. It takes also away the pressure of time: when will you get over this!Go on with your life! I am getting over it,living my life - hand in hand with this great teacher

You are my go to for understanding what happened to me and that I am not a victim because I invited it and allowed it for 19 months...you have enlightened me beyond belief, I appreciate you so much! I've stopped watching the "other" sites talking about narc abuse, you are the expert! I don't know how to repay you, pls advise, I did order 3 of your books yesterday, but seeing you and hearing your voice EVERYDAY is my healer and comforter. Everything you say resonates with me. I'm 3 months divorced and NO Contact. I'm better, but still a good way to go. I continue to ruminate too much, but it's a guide for me to remind myself I'm still recovering from horrible physical & mental abuse and being in prison with my abuser (we were both at home during our 19 month marriage during the "pandemic")

This is good advise. Closure never comes so do not try .We give power to the others .

This video 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼 My mom who is a narcissist asked me WHY I needed CLOSURE from my ex-husband (who is a narcissist).. she said I’d be waiting all day !!

I almost did the “open chair” technique and the anticipation crippled me! I didn’t do it; I couldn’t bring myself to re-traumatize myself. Love your work Sam!

The hope for closure or an explanation has kept my life stuck on pause. It’s been 3 years since my mother discarded me; I’ve come to terms with it to stop ruminating. Thank you for the information!

Professor Vaknin, I’ve just become aware that I’m a narcissist a few months ago. I want to thank you for your brutal picture of myself. It hurts, but is very accurate. I’m not happy knowing that change is unlikely. I believe that learning to live with it, as you do, is my most favorable alternative. Damage control.

I don't know how people become psychologists, when they read concepts they don't process it, digest it otherwise they would have been denied the idea of closure like Dr Sam did. I am very grateful to God that i found you. Every time you hit a new pillar of psychology. I think psychology books need to be rewritten by real psychologist like you. Your knowledge is not from books , it's from Life. Love & deep respect from India.

"...Carry pain in a positive way". Yes, excellent. That is hope. Thankyou Professor.

I had a councilor in a rehab center at a very young age do this with a group of myself and about 5-6 other young girl's. We had to write a letter to the parent we thought hurt us the most and then read it to the chair. It was very helpful for me to do this with imagining communicating with my father. But then the therapist changed it up on me and asked me to imagine my mother in the chair. Wow, looking back that therapist knew me better than anyone I know today lol. It triggered me so bad that night I left the rehab and went and got high. Went back to my mother's just to be shipped back again. I graduated the rehab after that. Thank you for bringing this up Dr. Healing for me has been a life long endeavor. Your videos continuously help me and so many others to keep working hard at it.

I’ve spent the last few years wondering what I’m doing wrong in healing my trauma because it never fully goes away. I thought it was something wrong with me or the modalities I’ve tried. I needed to hear this. Thank you! ❤️

Happy teacher's day to the best teacher in my life😭😭😭

" makes you think you have to obtain or you want to obtain answers and reasons from the other or the abuser..." No way. You Will keep confused and frustrated and depleated. Its a personal journey.

I had a therapist who repeated a zen-koan like phrase "Hope Must Die." Labored with that some time. On discovering there wasn't a grave or marker to visit my father's remains, as they hadn't been deposited anywhere, I realized closure must be entirely in my head. Very painful -- but, that's the work we need to do: it's all in our heads. Another therapist, after said she believes closure to be an American myth. Maybe other places besides America.

Makes sense to me ! I have used journaling /songwriting for dealing with emotional pain , loss , confusion , it’s healing but not “closure “, that’s an illusion .

THANKYOU!!!! So glad someone finally had the balls to say this! I wish I had been told this before I embarked on pressing criminal charges against the abuser who stole my childhood. Although he went to prison, I ended up not much better off.. Months and months spent in psychiatric hospitals due to the extreme PTSD that I suffered after spending three and a half days being cross examined by his defence barrister in Court. I was so convinced that it would give me 'closure', and so obsessed by the concept that I failed to see the most likely outcome. Thank you Sam. I love that you always go where most people dare not!

You truly are appreciated sir. I feel like the human race needs to collectively come to the conclusion that we need to stop reproducing and work on our mental health for awhile. I feel like immense changes would take place.

🤣🤣🤣 Your honesty and sense of humor always brings me back to your work!!! Thank you for it all...

Yes, knowing the truth can cause more trauma. I thought the same just as you were about to say the words. You have to be really stoic and avoid repressing loss.

This is great advice AND explanation doctor - thank you! I have 'kinda' said this to myself....but in a different way. I've said, hey, if I wanna cry or think about what happened, I'm NOT going to "bury it", but, as you said; "embrace it"! Quora advised me to "put on some makeup and FORCE yourself to go out and be sociable"! ......well I TRIED that, but being a man I was a bit apprehensive about putting on makeup - but I took their advice. It did NOT work out well! If you FORCE yourself to go out and be "sociable", do NOT wear makeup guys! Thanks, Rick

Amor fati = A Latin phrase that may be translated as "love of fate" or "love of one's fate". It is used to describe an attitude in which one sees everything that happens in one's life, including suffering and loss, as good or, at the very least, necessary.

Sam, your ideas and insights are so helpful. I admire your strength for going against the tide of the popular and simplistic. I have thought and intuited down many of the paths that you travel...perhaps because I am auto-didactically inclined and happily independent in my thinking. I thank you for your courage and the validation that your thoughts have given me. I am paying close attention.

Introspective and illuminating as usual. My mother is a narcissist, your channel has aided me in appropriately dealing with her while keeping my sanity intact. Thankyou.

My therapist wanted me to talk to the chair (my mother), but I didn't want to do it because she wouldn't listen to what I had to say anyway.

Thank you, I feel so much lighter now! This idea of closure surrounds us everywhere, and it prevents me from feeling ok with myself. When, like now, realising that pain is not only a part of life, but also made me the person I am today. and contributes to my self-esteem and self-love, which was quite low. To take good and bad, and not hide.

I got a notification that class is in session.

This coincides perfectly with your classic videos in which you emphasize the need for absolute (if possible) no-contact.

Listening to you speaking Prof. vaknin is actually more healing that any closure one could eventually seek. Thank you for making the pain more tolerable Sir!

Just the day I was trying to find my ex to make a Reconciliation and close in a good way, I see your video and it helps me a lot and comforts me a lot, I understand that the pain is part of the lesson and that the key is in the acceptance.

Thanks so much Sam.. Really needed to hear this!! I'm in so much pain right now and I know I'm not helping myself! constantly feeling sorry for my ex because he behaves like a child, then I feel I need to help and always end up being hurt emotionally.. I wish I could just let go!!

One of your most useful videos. Thanks.

Years ago, Cowboy Bebop is a story that taught me exactly what you have said about closure, Prof. Vaknin. "You are gonna carry that weight..." Friedrich Nietzsche is another thinker that really helped me understand how to deal with suffering by embracing it. I highly recommend him to anybody willing to delve deep into the subject. Reading deep thinkers like him can be exhausting, but well worth one's time. Thank you for the direct and detailed approach to the subject of narcissism and all that it entails, it is LITERALLY saving lives

I agree completely, it's a lesson & the teacher is always harsh. As if an abuser will let you off the hook! Death is hidden, even old age frightens us.

Yes, last time I tried to get a clouser will a narc. I end up in relationship for another 8 months. Now, I don't seek clouser anymore. I realser, it is not possible almost always.

I needed this video. I’ve been waiting on closure for 8 months now. It’s clearly not healthy and truly does keep me stuck in the past. I did experience my grief and journal a little so I guess that part was healthy.

There will never be closure with the narcissit, do you expect themsevles tell you, "I am a narcissist, I cannot love anyone, I only treat you as an object, life with me will be miserable and unhappy. You should leave me and move on." Closure will be live your life by yourself, healing slowly, hopefully, someday, you wont think about him or the past anymore. Over 7months after the discard now. I can function normally, but still grieve and mourn from time to time.

People these days seems to be very afraid to feel.... Feel anything at all it seems to me. When one try to close the door to pain, because of not wanting to/being able to be with and accept the full spectrum of one's emotions... One also closes the door to love, compassion, intimacy, companionship with one self and with others. Why have people become so afraid of emotional pain?? I wonder...

Thank you sir. I have learned alot from this channel.

Thank you Sir. 😊 . School me as you always do...

listening to you Sam , is all the closure we all need! tq

So . . . "closure" is actually the act of closing oneself to change and therefore healing . . . wow. I am very pleased to have discovered this valuable resource that you are providing us with. Prof Vaknin, I thank you.

Wow, most excellent video Sam!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!! Eye opening to me. I have been going in circles trying to leave my Somatic Narc. This showed me the path.

Thank you! I totally got this and what a RELIEF. I agree, no such thing as closure. Lighten up and count it all knowledge to be drawn upon in the future. I feel like a huge weight has been lifted. Some things can’t be wrapped up in a neat little package.

Thank you so much for Truth!! ☺️🌺👍🏾

Thank you Dr Vaknin. You always brings a deeper more meaningful perspective to your lectures. You mention there is no such thing as closure. This implies finality without emotion. Yet how does a borderline seem to do this. With their object inconstancy they DO seem to have closure. They have finality and no emotion when they move on quickly to a new partner

Thanks for this realistic piece of life. It actually gives piece of mind, if one is intelligent enough. Kind regards, professor

Do you realize how your work is appreciated Prof. Vaknin?

It was a comfort, to hear your words Prof. Sam Vaknin. The pain, we must feel fully of the loss. We must not be ashamed to cry and feel. We will become stronger after. We are empathetic and never lose the ability to feel. You give strength in your true, wise words. Much respect and many thanks.

Knowing there are no end points is good to know as one can work for end points to be “complete”

Thank you so much Professor. Your teachings and insight, the way in which you explain things is very enlightening & helpful.

I get a lot of relief from venting on paper. For 20 minutes, I write all the garbage thoughts that are in my mind. By the end, I feel better. I never reread what I wrote, I tear up the paper and throw it away. It sounds like magical thinking, I know, but I have no one to talk about to. I’m completely alone and this has been the difference between life and death for me.

I realize this video is ancient history now, but I am just now entering the dark realm of narcissism education. I have come to both deeply appreciate and lowkey despise your scholarly and accurate information and somehow your candor both amuses and pains me every time. And in case it’s hard to tell, just wanted to give sincere thanks to you for your content.

Much appreciated. Thank you!

All the crayon eaters are gone. Life is good 👍

This is exactly what I have been doing to process the last 12 months that I have spent with an undiagnosed untreated BPD - ie consume many hours of content . I am now going to invest that time in restoring myself - mediation being a key tool .

Ha! “Today we’re gonna slaughter another holy cow, and that holy cow is..CLOSURE” It’s nice to learn and educate myself on narcissism mixed in with humor!! Mahalo all the way from Kona, Hawaii🌺…….Jody

yet another banger, my friend

You have the best type of humor.

You're exceptional!, simply exceptional!

Well received!! Bravo! And farewell to all the conspiracy theorists! Thanks

Leaving the narcissist. That is good enough. Why in the bloody HELL would I contact my ex? After I left? It's stupid to think that.

Thank you Dr. Vaknin, conserve your precious energy for things that are proven to work.

He's back! ❤️

No kidding, my cats like listening to you. They are still narcissist though

I just don't want this pain caused by a discard to become cronic and follow me for the rest of my days. My closure is a small post office box with ex partner's personal things inside, including a love post card sent to me without my name on it, a New Year's resolution list written by ex partner, a dresser, an empty picture book that we will never fill up with pictures of our fake future, etc. I will drop the box off at ex partner's old address where it will be waiting for her when she gets back in town and I will have moved 5 thousands miles away.

Thank you Prof. Vaknin 👌

Thank You professor xxx

honestly, as I was hearing him speaking about negative affectivity, it made me think why traumatised people think they have found 'Real Love' with a narcissist. When the narcissist sees their intimate partner in a bad situation, they are more moved by it as a result, they take actions to resolve the problem. This makes the intimate partner think that the narcissist really loves them. On the contrary, narcissists don't get excited about their intimate partner's happiness or success. So, the intimate partner gets taken aback. But they stay in the relationship because 'a friend who is more present when things fall apart is a greater friend, right?' But this also create a cognitive dissonance. Intimate partners of narcissists cannot wrap their head around this dichotomy. They also start seeking bad situations just to get the attention from the narcissist that they want and need. I have noticed a similar pattern in my behaviour where I make it a priority to attend to my friends when they are in problem but can very well make an excuse to not attend their birthday party or their success. I do this and this results in me thinking that people reach out for me only when they are in problem. But the reality is I don't always know how to be happy.

I find this information very helpful, Dr. Vaknin. Thank you.

That's why you make your own closer nothing has been resolved or even when you tried to be resolved with them, forgive that person without them knowing just move on *Grey Rock*💯🥂😁🥰👌

Can you please make a video on psychology of bullies and how they affect our brain functioning and emotional states? Appreciate it!

Prof Vaknin that was one of your best videos thus far. Even though the other videos about borderlines and narcissist's are great also this subject has more far reaching and useful apllication I feel. It is a video that I am certain will help me. You are right also about journaling because the last time I suffered the loss of a partner it was the best tool for my recovery.

This is helpful. I had several EMDR sessions following my N while entering into a new (healthy) relationship which helped break the hyper vigilance which I did not want to carry into a situation which did not warrant. Vigilance and open eyes yes, hyper vigilance no. However it did not “erase” or provide complete closure. I noticed rather than being channeled into hyper vigilance, I found myself quite naturally asserting stronger voice and boundaries in situations which did warrant (work, acquaintances, etc). I choose to channel those memories into action versus victim hood. At least for the time being those memories are still very real but seem to be serving a purpose. Was wondering if I was broken for still feeling some of those so strongly instead of just simply closing that chapter. This is very useful. Thanks.

Hope and confidence in a fantasy really are two different things. Think.

Thank you Dr. Vaknin for the very helpful videos !!!

These videos have been a map for me. Thanks from a cluster B friend.

Wow, some acknowledgment of the illusion of control?! THANK YOU.

Wow. 'Closure' is an attempt to impose a form that is incongruous to, and placing limiting conditions on what is being felt and experienced - in the present and in the future. God it feels good sometimes to get this stuff. Another mindfuck bites the dust. Thank you Sam!

Sam as much as I wish you were not right, you are “right”in all aspects of the closure. Thank you for the lights you shed on this very misunderstood subject🙏💯

Fantastic video!!!!! Thank you for posting

ty - great video

Very interesting and actually a relief from the pressure to seek the holy grail of closure.

I never looked for closure, only for distance and detachment from my abusers. I think was left more with the why-question, to understand what drove my abusers. Given that I've experienced SA as a young child next to decades of narcissistic abuse I struggle "cherishing" those memories, I do not see the gain in having experienced that, especially since it wasn't an adult choice with a lesson to be learned.

Is the virtual blocking necessary ? ...if we are not even talking, meeting, or texting the narc....is it necessary to block? ... I feel like the whole virtual thing is not to be Taken seriously...and blocking transfers the message that the narc is a real threat to us....

Thanks again Samuel ❤️🖖🙏🌄

"Hope is the worst invention ever" when I say this people don't like it. I've said over and over that hope is dangerous. Because youre constantly expecting something that will never happen. IF it does, great, but majority of times we know that this isn't the case.

Five stars on this one!

Proff Vaknin, this probably your third best. Listened 5 times now