CNC Carved Boat Frame REFINEMENT | Building Temptress Ep4

Рет қаралды 14,581

Күн бұрын

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- In this video -
In this video I am rolling out some refinements to the CNC boat frame carving process that I trialled in the previous video. I have amended the way the frame is aligned on the machine, checked for accuracy and held down. All leading to a better end result of the process.
We also look at how the CNC router tool paths will be altered to get a better finish by reducing the load on the cutter. Here I am cutting a two sided, 3D contour tool path that will cut all of the bevels and notches into the boat frame.
- Project sponsors -
I want to say a huge thank you to the following sponsors that are helping to reduce the materials cost for me on this build in order to help me get things moving! Current project sponsors are:
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#buildingTemptress
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:29 Nesting frame parts
3:07 Cutting frame parts
9:30 Bulkheads
12:52 Building frame 3
34:19 Tool path types and checks
44:05 Carving frame 3
48:18 Looking at the frame and what's next
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Пікірлер: 91

@thomashiggs824 14 күн бұрын

I could watch this content all day. Just signed up for the middle tier on patreon, which I've never done before. Happy to help support Danny taking financial risks and the time investment necessary to teach and further modernize wooden boat construction. If everyone would at least subscribe to the channel we can get the youtube algorithm triggered and make this channel his primary income. I cannot wait to see Temptress on the water!

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

Thank you, this is just the sort of support and generosity that will help to make all of this come together 🙏 very much appreciated, thank you!

@heyheyjc 14 күн бұрын

I'm surprised to find how inspirational this is for me. I live aboard (and love) a fiberglass sailboat. Though I also love wooden boats, I know it's completely impractical to build large numbers of them today using traditional methods. This is the best of both worlds. Many thanks for these videos.

@billlambert2092 8 сағат бұрын

Dry fitting the pieces on the board must be very satisfying.

@MrOli2687 9 күн бұрын

Try adding a small 0.25 - 0.5mm fillet/roundover to all sharp edges allowing the cutter to roll around the edge, this certainly helps eliminate tear out on 2d plywood and solid wood parts. Another solution would be to cut notches first on a separate toolpath and then a continuous contour toolpath without notches which will remove any tear out.

@josephpettit1519 14 күн бұрын

You might consider roughing out the long narrow parts first, then coming back with a finish cut after the stresses are relieved. That little bit of stress caused a misalignment early on which got forced into position. But those stresses are still there trying to warp the frame a little bit, even after the glue up. This is small enough that it won't matter, except if there are internal holes that need precise locating, like receivers for stringers and such. Also, there are digitizing probes that can automatically run around your perimeter and give you a vector drawing of where the CNC thinks your part is.

@BramBiesiekierski 14 күн бұрын

49:30 with the tear out. Set your tool path to do the cross grain cut before doing cut in line with the grain. That way there is more wood left at the point where the tear out is occuring

@theratsnestvideo 14 күн бұрын

I have found that saturating the known tearout problem areas with a thin CA glue just before the final cut will strengthen them significantly.

@TripWire-75 3 сағат бұрын

Amazing use of cnc, I was thinking of purchasing a hobbyist grade cnc, for making plugs and molds. After seeing the video I actually see more uses that it can be used for. Due to how wood changes (expand, contract, torque) on temperature and humidity shifts, I would add a temporary cross brace/internal plywood frame that you can either cut away or unscrew it, keep the internal frame in place until the part is actually installed. This should help keep the part true.

@billrose6699 13 күн бұрын

Thoughtful approaches, Dan, very impressive. With the glue table and Irwin clamps, if you remove the fixed head and replace with a 4-5cm steel strap that freely spins, you could drop the shank and strap parallel through each hole, then wiggle the clamp to get the strap to turn 90 degrees. Save you creeping under the table to reattach a fixed head.

@ross82 7 күн бұрын

I love the bird on the scratch board!

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 6 күн бұрын

😆 that was something I cut for a customers kids.

@mattivirta 12 күн бұрын

interesting good idea and system made boat parts accurate , fasten, better, and not waste lot material, good job.

@tobiasm2780 14 күн бұрын

I wouldn't assume your cnc router is square between X and Y or even straight. Some of the offset you see might be on the machine, too. It should be easy to check by routing a square, flipping it around and checking the contour like you did with the assembled part

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

Thats a good point and something that I have never considered to check actually. I probably trust it too much. I'll give that a go this week and see what I get 😬

@kenmiller7632 13 күн бұрын

Along the same line, compare your assembly board to your set up on the machine, as they were cut at 90 degrees to each other. This would compound the problem. Check the distance between 2 pins in both the setup board and the hole locations you have cut in the machine. They should to be the same. Fascinating watching the videos

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

I could also check the squareness of the MFT hole arrangement, hadn’t even thought to measure that yet.

@andypandy955 12 күн бұрын

I am using Epifanis paint and varnish on my boat absolutely amazing paint and varnish. It is a little bit more expensive but it shows. Great video.

@washy934 11 күн бұрын

A much easier way to get the whole shooting match registered on the spoil board is to screw down sacrificial spacers where you are going clamp (over size in x-y and too thick in z), then machine a nest into them - the negative of your frame - and then just plop it in clamp in without resetting the machine datum. Your perimeter tracing technique is not uncommon either, although you've done it extremely manually (a piece of straight ground rod would be easier to measure from), but you can also use conductive tape and jog the machine to touch the frame and then program the measured offsets in the g-code rather than rely on setting up the frame square and datum'd in the first place. Keep up the good work though!

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 11 күн бұрын

Nice, I like the idea of machining a nest into spacers 👌

@scififan698 14 күн бұрын

Smart building, goods tips 👍

@bkormoski1 13 күн бұрын

Awesome 😎

@jackdelancey248 14 күн бұрын

A possible solution to the tearout on the deck beam. You could leave the deck beam oversized, run the grooves then come back with a finish pass to bring it into size.

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

Yes, I think in an ideal world parts would be oversize on all their external edges and then machined down to size at the end. For this project though that would require me to re work the files for every frame which would be a ton of work. Maybe for the next plan set.

@mfmr200 14 күн бұрын

woah, huge model kit. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@johnnyknap 12 күн бұрын

Fascinating work and a meticulous approach, should be a finely crafted boat when it’s finished. Great videos thanks!

@kenlloyd3078 12 күн бұрын

We have to remember that we're working with wood, not metal, so a few millimeters tolerance on a part this size is as good as it gets. Very envious of using the CNC machine for this work, especially just having spent a hard couple of days fairing frames and stringers with a hand plane!

@RonWalker-rq5uq 14 күн бұрын

From a milling standpoint if the cutter rotates in a clockwise direction see if you can run the cutting path in a counter clockwise direction will probably help with any chip out.

@lionelfournier 14 күн бұрын

Awesome, as always!

@mkllove 13 күн бұрын

On the tiny tearouts experienced at the inward notches, perhaps after the square end mill roughing pass is completed try treating those corners with CA glue and accelerator or an epoxy ? Just paint on a coat or two of just resin, let absorb and then spray or paint with kicker vs premixed epoxy to firm the corners up a bit ? Thinking maybe the resin being absorbed deeper may be better than single stage unless its thinned ?

@markpalmer5311 14 күн бұрын

Very nice

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

Thanks Mark 👍

@Johnsull1965ish 11 күн бұрын

Machining all of the slots first before any of the outer perimeter work should solve the breakout problem. Any breakout experienced when doing the slots will be removed when machining the outer section.

@jeffreynerdin3522 11 күн бұрын

I love these boats. Is the expectation that you may someday sell a pre-cut kit? I’d be very interested. I’ve built a cedar strip canoe, but I don’t want to invest the time it would take to build this boat from scratch. Awesome work.

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 10 күн бұрын

I can supply kits pre cut. At the moment most of the interest seems to be overseas though and when shipping is factored in costs become unviable.

@matthewbeesley1588 14 күн бұрын

Amazing set of skills being shown here with constant improvement and problem solving! For reducing tear out there are alot of comments about glue and sealing edges which I imagine would help but adds time and hassle in the stages needed to stop the process and restart after curing. Tool path, cutter rotation and feed direction are definitely worth investigating but wood is natural so the grain is different at different points with the changing of the deck beam camber and the shape having 2 sides meaning the set up will work well for one side but less for the other. Would a mirrored tool path based on the centre line help? Do you currently have one side with more or less tearout than the other? On a milling machine we use climb and convetional cutter direction in relation to the feed and this can do wonders for finish, tool chatter and accuracy. Some machines cant manage the climb milling as the tool just tries to run away with itself. Would a cutter with more flutes help so each cut is smaller with less chance of tear out? Can you control the feedrates of certain profile (more than 45* external corners for example)to be fed slower in the tool path? I love a bit of problem solving! Im probably way behind you though and you have thought of these things

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

Thanks! Yes glue would certainly induce some stop start downtime which isn’t ideal. I am getting breakout worse on one side than the other. I am currently climb milling and confident my machine plus the new hold down system is rigid enough to manage it. Chatter has certainly disappeared. I might have a look at feed rate adjustment on angled entries. Might be some stuff in the further depths of Fusion that will do that. I do also have a 4 fluted tapered end mill so I could give that a go on the next frame, thanks 👍

@matthewbeesley1588 13 күн бұрын

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding another thing that may help with the breakout would be to cut inwards (cross grain) first and do the batten notches then doing the outer profile as that would then remove any chips which may have occured. Again you may have thought of this already. I think with the level of work you are putting in to Temptress you will end up with a work of art as well as a beautiful boat

@stephenwhite4257 12 күн бұрын

Your boat should be a masterpiece when you are finished.

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 12 күн бұрын

Let’s hope so 🤞the finish line is a little way off yet!

@TheOomgosh 14 күн бұрын

I am loving watching this method. I had one question on the shaping by CNC: understandably this may have some complications like the springiness of that long stretcher, but would you be able to do the shaping when cutting out the individual pieces instead of positioning the whole glued up piece back on the CNC? Just thinking about how I would make something like this without getting a much larger CNC (currently have 2' x 4' milling area).

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

This could be done. There have been a few questions about this now and I think I'll cover it in the next video as it's a little difficult to explain in the comments. I actually think it would be more complicated to do because you would need to do a two sided operation on maybe 8 individual parts, creating a hold down system and a program for each operation. The way I'm doing it now there are only 3 operations, stock parts cutting, bevel side 1 and bevel side 2. It is also easier to hold down the entire frame whilst the bevels are milled but holding down and locating individual sides, bottoms, deck beam and gussets would be a ton more work. I get the benefit of wanting to do it on a smaller machine but in reality you need at least an 8x4' machine for this boat anyway. Some of the deck beams are probably 7' long and most parts for the jig elements etc are broken down into sections that will nest on 8x4' sheet stock.

@TheOomgosh 13 күн бұрын

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Totally makes sense on the CNC side since I did not think about the significantly longer pieces. For beveling the individual pieces, I guess I was assuming creating specifically placed tabs to hold the pieces within the original board until all operations were done with what you had on that piece, ideally reducing the hold down complication. But I don't think that reduces the overall complication and there would be some more manual cleanup for each piece. Either way, I really appreciate your trial and error approach, and the explanation of chasing down perfection was great. I easily get caught up in the details and forget to look at the big picture. I would totally be chasing after those 2mm if someone didn't say "What difference is that actually going to make on this boat?"

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

Yeah it’s easy to get caught up on details and then two months later you think why did I even bother. It’s only that I have the machine there that I’m even able to see that error otherwise I’d have never even noticed it I bet… onwards and if there’s 2mm errors, no one will ever know 😁

@ModSlash 14 күн бұрын

I do have a question. Since you are cnc-ing the individual parts to begin with, why don't you include the bevels, or at least the initial bevels during the first cut? I can appreciate that height wise-they are not in their final dimension, but you could remove the bulk of the material during the first operations, while these parts are indeed on the board. I may be missing something, just an idea really :)

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

A few have mentioned this so I think I’ll talk about it in the next video as there are a few reasons why I haven’t done it that way. Board dimensioning and part holding are the primary issues I can see.

@ModSlash 13 күн бұрын

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding for your board dimensioning and/or part holding, you could do perhaps a spoil board that replicates the assembly board hole pattern, as well maybe use tabs before the final pass. Also perhaps worthwhile if you can size the boards down to the last couple of mm or so using a flattening bit or two on the cnc itself. Again, I don't mean to tell you how to do things, but just another idea :)

@marcushalliday2139 14 күн бұрын

Hi Dan When you drew that line for the centre your spirit level ( ruler ) looked like it wasn’t touching the pin ? M

@andrewiannello6548 14 күн бұрын

Lol, the benifits of great camera angles 😂

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

I thought it was but when I’ve watched the video back it actually looks like the pencil line is slightly off in comparison to the scribed line on the board 🤦‍♂️ This KZfaq filming lark is actually quite helpful for looking back over and picking up where you went wrong 🤣

@grahameida7163 14 күн бұрын

Maybe paint some quick set epoxy on the trailing edges to stop the breakout.

@peterritchie3318 14 күн бұрын

Hi Dan, little sander at the 23 minute mark, where would I purchase one? Hopefully you have a link that earns you some commission. Great video, just what’s needed on a Sunday morning, loving the tips and constant amendments, great tips 👍

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

Glad you are enjoying the videos 👍 this is the sander: restorate.co.uk/collections/mirka-sander/products/mirka-aros-b-150nv-32mm-2-5ah-solution-kit I don’t get a commission on the link unfortunately but the business is on the same estate as me so happy to support them. Ooh and brace yourself, it’s not a cheap tool 😣 I managed to stretch to buying it when it justified its cost with big savings on a job. It does work really well though!

@thargy 9 күн бұрын

Is it not worth using a marker/scribe toolhead and running a mark on the sacrificial board tracing the outline, when you drill the referencing holes? That way when you place the frame you can tap it into place all around referencing that marked outline.

@Paul_C 13 сағат бұрын

To prevent break-out you should slow down to near zero when changing direction, it is the speed taking the corner. Basically when changing direction you also change the point where the break-out occurs. It is rather common when you try to transition to cnc. When you work with a chisel you know exactly what pressure and at what speed you move your hand. But the machine runs along a tool path you generate as the whole entity, not considering what speed and what direction the entry is. Consider a tool path for a bandsaw in your mind, you need the width of the blade then change direction, how would you do that? Basically you need that kind of an approach when transition to CNC operations. It was the hardest thing I had to learn. We changing to a 4-axes, 3m×1.5m wide table. Took about a month to learn the basics, 3 months to full production, and 2 years to optimal production. And that was, eh, hard...

@Paul_C 12 сағат бұрын

Addendum As an aside, I worked in the manufacturing of tables, chairs and various other furniture. That lasted from about '82 till 2000 when I transitioned to metal working, way more innovative mindset. Today a pensioner. A few pointers to prevent break-out: Realise what direction your tool is travelling: against the grain or perpendicular to it and at what side your tool is cutting. In various instances it would make more sense to not end the cut but lift it and come in from the the other side. Time wise it makes more sense: Repairing or use the tool to prevent break-out...

@edwardh2444 12 күн бұрын

Just a thought... are these small tear out areas really a problem? surely when you assemble the frames there will be epoxy filling those? it might even make it stronger. I know you're a perfectionist though.

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 12 күн бұрын

Not really no, I think I’m probably fussing over something that won’t really be an issue down the line. It certainly won’t be seen that’s for sure.

@user-mw3ht5kp2p 14 күн бұрын

Is there a reason you do not cnc the 3d profile from the first cut ?? Am asking because i have a much smaller cnc machine. And i was wondering, Because you said your self you would have to look into how to put the bigger part back on the CNC to 3d profile. They it would not be better just do to it from the first cut. And there could be a million reasons not to. But am just wondering. Again Awesome video !!

@ArthriticAngler 14 күн бұрын

Wasn’t someone doing abrasive waterjet years back

@andrewiannello6548 14 күн бұрын

The tear out is just the tooling direction. So if I'm doing this manually im entering the recess from both directions, not one direction. Im not coming out of the recess, I'm only going in, make sense? That will stop tear out. Sounds like more tool path training, which when you do this manually you tend to think about. I guess that's the learning curve with CNC, knowing what to program, why and when. It's all front end loading which makes it hard.

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

Yeah, I’m going to have a look and see if I can control the angle of entry a little better for the next one I think 👍

@ross82 7 күн бұрын

Could you make the frames 3mm oversized, then use the long bit to trim to size (inner and outer) prior to doing the step cuts?

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 6 күн бұрын

That would be the best way to go yes. It would require me to re work all of the boat parts though which I’d rather not do right now.

@ross82 6 күн бұрын

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding maybe for when you go into production? 🤔

@DelBouy-lc5wx 14 күн бұрын

Curious why you don't run the same program as the layout board on the sacrificial board to engage the frames in the same manner to ensure alignment?

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

I am essentially but I'm just drilling the hole sets one frame at a time right now instead of all in one hit. Basically because I didn't know how well all of this would actually work. The program I use to drill the holes in the spoil board is created from the construction board design though.

@DelBouy-lc5wx 12 күн бұрын

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Cool, I understand its an organic process and constant incremental improvements. Loving the content so far.

@stephenwhite4257 13 күн бұрын

You should stop trying to manually lay out your position on the table. If you used one of those wooden dowel locations as your program X0,Y0 your positioning would spot on. Cant wait to see the progress on this boat!

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

The dowel holes are drilled by a program that shares the same origin as the frame bevelling program. The manual things I was doing were really just checks to see how the tool path corresponded to the physical frame.

@andrewiannello6548 14 күн бұрын

How do you mark out the bevel on the frames if your doing it manually? What do the plans give you on this front ? I'd imagine the bevel would be variable pitch making it harder to achieve transfering the pattern. Also how do you find Autodesk fusion for boat design? It obviously works well with your tooling. Your really taking it to the next level with this method, still digesting it, having only just learnt traditional stitch & glue building. But still keen to see the progress. Great work 👍

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

You would do this as you set in the longitudinal timbers such as chine, sheer clamps and topside battens. The finished size/shape of the frames are set to the largest side of the bevel so you cut down the smaller side until the landing timber meets the other side. Difficult to explain effectively in comments.

@pauld9530 13 күн бұрын

would drops of high viscosity superglue in the edges where break out might occur?

@jackdelancey248 14 күн бұрын

Have you had any squareness issues by planning after running parts on the cnc.

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

Not anything noticeable to date. These boards are sawn very well though and for sawn stock are much more uniform than ones I've seen before.

@GI-AUS 14 күн бұрын

Your imprecise centre line is caused by that modern 'pencil' you are using to mark the line. Use a knife instead.

@christianblankenship7683 14 күн бұрын

Well done. Dan how would a guy who is building frames in their garage/shop who does not have one of these tables do this to ensure the frames are true?

@andrewiannello6548 14 күн бұрын

I think you'll find the two part table is part of the kit

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

The files for the construction board are included with the plans. It can be done as a board on the floor rather than building a table but I thought the table would be better for other uses once I'm done building frames. I wouldn't recommend trying to build these frames without using the construction board as you would end up losing all the accuracy induced by the CNC cutting process.

@christianblankenship7683 9 күн бұрын

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Dan I'm sorry. I was not clear and specific enough with my question. I was asking about building boat frames in general and not specifically this boat. If you are building a boat like your Rocket is a table a must have or can you just use the floor?

@mattivirta 12 күн бұрын

2mm out of centerline, make lowest sheet were all has added, both head little shorten and cnc table fixed head and this have horicontal 2 screw, then can open free lowest sheet and screw easy sheet horicontal move sheet whit screw to centerline, and then closed sheet back to table locked, same idea about vise have but can accurate move position left-right to center line , sorry my english not good what i mean but can adjust lowest sheet to centerline better 2 mm have lot many point this frame, im retiree old engineering 65Y old what has working all my life whit CAD and metal cnc work plan lot parts. if i can make drawing you can understand better this idea. i hope this help or you can test this idea.

@martinmuckle 11 күн бұрын

I might have missed it but what kind of wood are the planks?

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 10 күн бұрын

Utile.

@pedrobalduci7754 14 күн бұрын

omg what is this tiny mirka sander called i need one of those rnnn

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

It’s called a Mirka AROS 😁

@1975Per 4 күн бұрын

Why not leave a full cm or at least half a cm, of material, before you run the final routing? Why have any surface etc. done to its final size, before the final pass? If there's a cm.of material everywhere everything will be perfect after the djnal routing is done.

@jbrnds 13 күн бұрын

Are you an aerospace engineer? The level of accuracy you aim to achieve has nothing to do with boatbuilding. Building boats myself and being an aerospace engineer I see your treats and pitfalls. 1 to 2 mm accuracy has nothing to do with boatbuilding. Its all about long stroking lines for the stiffners under the skin. However I do like your frame construction board. You must be spending time behind Fusion 360 for days on end!

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with boat building but there are probably very few people working to those sorts of tolerances. Mostly I would guess because many existing plans are not that accurate to begin with and so builders are very accustomed to fairing and correcting errors as they go. Seeing as I have such accurate data to start with, I believe getting things set up as accurately as I am able early on will filter on down through making the rest of the process flow. It will be interesting to see how it transpires down the line when it comes to planking the boat but as I say in the video, I don't think chasing down errors of less than 2mm is worth worrying about.

@jbrnds 13 күн бұрын

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding thanks Dan. Yeah “nothing to do with boatbuilding” is way too harsch. It has everything to do with boatbuilding and all to do my envy for your shop and life! Way to go Dan!!

@Harbourmillworkdotcom 14 күн бұрын

Dan, I find Sipo hard to machine consistently; some stock will not behave no matter what strategy in F360. Since your final path is a finishing pass, try the Parallel 3d, making sure that the direction of bit orientation is 90 degrees to the face of the frame. It will take longer than a 2d contour but will most likely give a better finish, reduce tear out and all but eliminate the ridges left from the step down on the contour. Enable Rest Machining and Contact Point Boundary from the Geometry tab. Drawing a profile of the finished top profile for use with Tool Containment (centered on the boundary) will speed up the 3d finish strategy; the little fuzz at the top edge can be sanded far faster than the hours an uncontained path will add. The 3d strategies in Fusion are difficult to get right in wood, especially with cross-linked grain woods. Working with 3d is a big step from 2.5 axis machining, but is also a huge learning curve. Trying a smaller sample with the intended tool paths will save time. I really enjoy your content. Your videos on resin infusion have saved me days and $$$ of mistakes!

@DanLeeBoatbuilding 13 күн бұрын

I’ll give this a go thanks. Might be able to do a parallel path and just select specific faces to machine such as the batten notches that are breaking out. Then I could finish up with a contour path to do the longer, less risky runs.