Coarse vs. Fine Grain Crush In A Helles Bock

Coarse vs. Fine Grain Crush In A Helles Bock | exBEERiment

Рет қаралды 27,953

Күн бұрын

When it comes to milling grains, how fine should you crush, and will the crush size ultimately make a difference in the finished beer? To find out, Martin is brewing two batches of Helles Bock, one using the default gap setting on the grain mill, and the other using a double crush, with the grains pulverized at a finer mill gap setting. Then the beer are served to tasters in a triangle test to see if they can reliably distinguish between these two brews.
RECIPE: share.brewfather.app/BUa88131...
INGREDIENTS
Epiphany Craft Malt: www.epiphanymalt.com
Atlantic Brew Supply: www.atlanticbrewsupply.com
Yakima Valley Hops: yakimavalleyhops.com/
Imperial Yeast: imperialyeast.com/
EQUIPMENT USED
Clawhammer Supply 240v eBIAB System: www.clawhammersupply.com/prod...
Spike Brewing FLEX+: spikebrewing.com/products/fle...
Blichmann Grain Mill: www.blichmannengineering.com/...
SUPPORT BRÜLOSOPHY
Patreon: / brulosophy
Affiliate links: brulosophy.com/support
CONTACT: martin@brulosophy.com

Пікірлер: 73

@JBCvision Жыл бұрын

I understand you’re going for extremes. But that “10 setting” 0,055” seems massive with lots of intact grains. If I see that after crushing, something is wrong.😂 I’m surprised it’s that close of a call. Really like the Brülosophy content! The website and podcast, and now the KZfaq channel are amazing. So much amazing content. Cheers guys!

@CascadesHomebrew Жыл бұрын

It would be interesting to see a trial with the grain bill adjusted for efficiency to hit a target OG. Would having more grain to hit a target gravity at a lower efficiency give different character than less grain at a higher efficiency? I especially wonder about the impact of specialty grains and dark malts. Would it make a big difference if you had to add an extra oz of Chocolate malt or 3 oz of Munich to hit your target gravity?

@afhostie 10 ай бұрын

Typically I usually add only base malts to makeup for inefficiency. However, it would be interesting to see whether that eventually waters down the specialty grains.

@afhostie 10 ай бұрын

Typically I usually add only base malts to makeup for inefficiency. However, it would be interesting to see whether that eventually waters down the specialty grains.

@BlichmannEngineering Жыл бұрын

Martin, great content! Thank you for featuring the Blichmann Pro Grain Mill. It's a beast. :)

@JosVanTongeren Жыл бұрын

Great one again!! Thanks for making this great content!

@jimlewis7938 Жыл бұрын

Interesting. So with the fine crush and higher original gravity, how much less grain could you reduce to hit the more course crush og. Maybe that is the important takeaway.

@simmexx Жыл бұрын

Lovely experiments!

@HerrAirburst Жыл бұрын

Really interesting content! Thanks mate!

@rivrivrivera2916 Жыл бұрын

Great content Martin!!!

@Homebrew58 6 ай бұрын

The trick isn't in achieving the highest efficiency possible. The trick is knowing what your efficiency is and being able to reliably repeat it. So if you don't have a mill at home or you don't want to twaddle about adjusting roller gap settings... just figure out what efficiency you are getting with what you've got and adjust your grain bill accordingly to achieve the result you are after.

@Mark_Wood Жыл бұрын

Great video Martin!

@TheMortgageBrewer 11 ай бұрын

awesome video as usual. Thank you for the t-shirt plug!! cheers Martin

@jackhandy7237 Жыл бұрын

Great video, Martin! I set my Barley Crusher grain mill to 0.032, which is a pretty fine crush but since I do BIAB I don’t have any problems with a stuck mash. Also, the beer tastes great! So I’m sticking with my fine crush.

@tadeoreyes1660 Жыл бұрын

Fantastic video!!

@chiwitthidi Жыл бұрын

My 1st thought was why wouldn't you run the course through the same setting twice, to keep that even?

@johancederholm5074 Жыл бұрын

Great content!

@bradleybarth9939 Жыл бұрын

Looking forward to what other achievement trophies you got planned!

@itterman Жыл бұрын

What about grain conditioning? That's another variable you could to this test! :)

@Leo99929 Жыл бұрын

I feel like the grain bill could be adjusted to account for the difference in efficiency to maintain the same OG/FG and ABV removing those as measurable variables in the final beer. Realistically if you get higher efficiency then you put less grain in to hit your target OG anyway, and adjust mash temp and length to hit your target FG.

@starwars1357 Жыл бұрын

then there shouldnt be a difference.

@Leo99929 Жыл бұрын

@@starwars1357 And you could get the same amount of indistinguishable beer for less money.

@starwars1357 Жыл бұрын

@@Leo99929 i mean it was better for the experiment. Although i Think it would be different result for hop forward beer.

@Thepuffingyank Жыл бұрын

that's quite an impressive score

@gnegnegne3 Жыл бұрын

it was interesting and entertaining at the same time :)

@PaHoHaska Жыл бұрын

Well, I "grouched" about weird content recently, but this time please accept my compliment - great video and great content/experiment. Thank you and looking forward to next one ...

@natedizzy 11 ай бұрын

Awesome!

@Pingwinho 5 ай бұрын

It's not surprising that 13 people found the difference in that final beer. The fine crush was 20% stronger!

@jasoncascio4218 Жыл бұрын

For those that could distinguish between them, what did they taste that was different?

@richardcarrillo1254 Жыл бұрын

That's what I came looking for too

@andyh7537 8 ай бұрын

Agreed with many other commenters that 0.055 setting seems hardly crushed at all, unfortunately. You might also try "grain conditioning" to get those starches crushed finer, but give the husk a bit more durability during the crush.

@PatrickBuckles Жыл бұрын

Great vid. my friends dont yet have a refined pallet so I can just do the lazy side of the house. haha

@59apachestepside Жыл бұрын

What was the expected difference? I’d imagine it would only be ABV. For the sake of comparison, you might as well perform the same experiment just scaling down the grain bill to equate to the 1%ABV difference.

@foxcubbrewing7100 Жыл бұрын

Great experiment would also be on time. If you are aiming for SG, which is calculated over 60Mins, you could reduce this down to 40Mins with a Fine Mash and mash out sooner as your extracting your sugars sooner, increasing efficiency and reducing brew day time 😊 Great video as always!

@ChrisChapmanIAm Жыл бұрын

Was going to say this. I brew smaller batches (1.75gal-2.25gal) and I hit full conversion with a fine crush in about 20-25min depending on the grain bill. I discovered in my own experiments some years ago that the majority of conversion takes place in the first 15m, finishing faster or slower depending on the crush size.

@reptilelair2388 Жыл бұрын

Hey I’m a home brewer in Raleigh always happy to test beer anytime lol

@davidguzman1063 11 ай бұрын

I been using a blender to grind my grain works fine lol no differences at least not noticeable, brew in a bag method

@VelkyAl 5 ай бұрын

I assume you modified the hopping to account for the difference in pre-boil gravity?

@mitthu007 11 ай бұрын

Hi Would like to know in future comparison what was the actual “ perceptible impact on beer” ? That would really help to kind of take decisions on how to brew the beer apart from the OG perspective. Thanks

@tommmah 11 ай бұрын

As a starter brewer this is absolutly interresting! I do wonder, if there would be a difference if both brews had the same starting OG. Maybee by using less grains in the finer batch?

@micha-42 Жыл бұрын

I've actually heavily modified my grain basket from Clawhammer supply because of "stuck" recirculation. They do have a few of these in their videos. Basically, the basket gets clogged and all the liquid underneath the basket gets put on top, and the element starts burning… Errghh.

@Sibula Жыл бұрын

If all the liquid pools on top, it's not flowing through the grain and extracting properly. Have you tried a coarser crush or adding rice hulls to your grain?

@afhostie 10 ай бұрын

I wonder if the target original gravity makes a difference

@deathkid411 Жыл бұрын

How do you all collect sensory data? Compusense, redjade, draught labs, or something else?

@mikekoehler9551 5 ай бұрын

Enjoyed the vid, but I think you're conflating double crush with finer crush. My thinking is, "double crush" comes from those who want a finer crush, but don't have the control over it - those ordering via internet or LHBS. I think they're crushed a second time at the same gap. And, I would question whether that would provide a significantly finer crush. I mean, if they were crushed through a .04" gap once, how much smaller would they be going through that same gap a second time?

@arturocm9758 Жыл бұрын

In Spain there is a brewery that mills the malt into flour, mash it and filter the mash by using a mud filter plate to get the wort, i guess they do that in order to get a more eficiency

@Angelstealth 5 ай бұрын

Which one? Maybe to spend less grain 😅

@stuker69 Жыл бұрын

Why do they prefer the coarse crushed beer?

@benvanos5259 Жыл бұрын

What about almost flour? I use an industrial coffee grinder.

@bombbrew4119 Жыл бұрын

Ive tried this before and got a stuck mash hahah no fun!

@thirstbuster78 Жыл бұрын

Im just getting into brewing beers again, ive never done whole grain. Can i turn it into flour with a blender, or is thst going too far?

@slothrob 11 ай бұрын

There are two potential issues with a blender. Firstly, the shredded husks will not give an open filter bed, so you risk a stuck sparge. That could potentially be solved by adding rice hulls to the mash. Secondly, the shredded husks can increase tannin extraction and lead to a more astringent beer. You would have to try it yourself to see if it makes a difference to you for the type of beers you make, but I find that shredded husks make pale lagers noticeably astringent in a high efficiency mash.

@Margarinetaylorgrease Жыл бұрын

I wonder if a 90 minute mash would of made the conversation closer.

@ferdle89 Жыл бұрын

Conversion curve levels off pretty well after the 30 minute mark.

@Margarinetaylorgrease Жыл бұрын

@@ferdle89 Yes that may be true for a fine crush. I find that on a coarse crush the extra time can give you a good few extra points. Also the sugar profile changes giving a more consistent and lower FG. This is particularly so if mashing at higher temps where Alpha amylase is dominant.

@Sibula Жыл бұрын

The OG should reach more or less the same level in under 60 minutes. Either the coarse crush was too coarse (it kinda seems like that to me) or there was something else off about the process.

@Margarinetaylorgrease Жыл бұрын

@@Sibula From what I can gather OG isn’t always sugar it can also be dissolved solids.

@Sibula Жыл бұрын

@Margarinetaylorgrease there are some soluble amino acids and such as well, but I'd imaging the ratio of dissolved sugar to dissolved amino acids should be close to constant. At the very least I don't think it explains the whole difference.

@starwars1357 Жыл бұрын

You should have guessed 1,66 times good without drinking the beers :D You also had bottom 13% probability of not getting a single one right without drinking

@andreaslinder8668 Жыл бұрын

Was this mash a no sparge, or with a sparge? I didn't catch that and couldn't see it in the recipe as well. Martin, would you be kind enough to enlighten us? :)

@TheBrulosophyShow Жыл бұрын

No sparge

@paulpizz4306 Жыл бұрын

Is 68% efficiency for Clawhammer common? I typically get 75-85% on my homemade RIMS following the old-school Papazian method of a quart of mash water per pound of grain and sparge with 1/2 gallon per pound. I was recently lazy and put all the water in at once to skip the sparge and got a dismal 65%. I wonder if it was lack of sparge or thinness of grist. Sounds like a future experiment!

@jackhandy7237 Жыл бұрын

I usually get 70 to 73% mash efficiency with my Clawhammer System. I crush my grains pretty fine though.

@Sibula Жыл бұрын

My last few brews have been between 78% and 87% efficient with a very basic Brew Monk system. Coarse crush, 60 minute single step mash with about 3-3.5 liters of mash water per kg of grain and the rest as sparge water.

@graymalkin26 Жыл бұрын

Fine crush forever brother.

@prOkrEAt Жыл бұрын

Little did he know the kid put same beer in all 3 cups.

@hejdingamleraev Жыл бұрын

Try a low abv beer (let's say 3,5%) and then a less low abv beer (4,5%) and I bet you will taste the difference

@pmhartel Жыл бұрын

Note to self, never trust Martin's tasting abilites again. I joke. Did you get a chamce to talk to the tasters who got it right? If so, what did they pick up on to identify the odd beer out? As for fine vs corse crush, I'm 100% on team fine crush. As a BIAB brewer stuck mashes arent a concern so i might as well get the efficiency bump. At the end of the day consistency is even more important though.