It's made a ton of progress lately. If they can just expand and refine, it will be as great game

I didnt care about climbing at all until I started playing and it adds a ton of interesting aspects to the game. Great system addition

I think it's fun.

It's really fun. I'm interested to see how people take to it when they actually play it. A non WoW clone MMO will likely get a lot of attention from many streamers who are bored of the same mmo rehash.

The first thing I noticed was exactly that, the art, it was a lot more simpler, now is cohesive and so far, not overlapping (bloating from excessive of edge art to look cool)

@@zazikikomo7796 lol I'll take that as a compliment 😂

You'll love Monsters and Memories then Edit: the original EverQuest will never be remastered in the manner you're suggesting because the IP is owned by a company focused on making a profit. I 100% agree with you that remaking EverQuest in a modern engine while preserving the classic game mechanics is what EQ2 should have been (but wasn't). It's also what the community has been asking for 15+ years (so you're not alone). The good news is that the game I mentioned (Monsters & Memories) takes the inspirations left over by EverQuest's legacy and is doing exactly what you're asking for (but with a new IP). The Lead Designer of the game also worked for the original EQ1 team so he's definitely "one of us". However, since we are talking about Pantheon, I don't want to be disingenuous: Pantheon is a GOOD game and it's FUN. It's not classic EverQuest but it always took its inspirations. Pantheon is what Vanguard should have been but to another level. I hope you get a chance to try Pantheon and see it for yourself. I play as Draekos so hit me up any time.

That's whats crazy... people literally want the game with updated graphics & animations with a few QOL things. It's so easy to nail this

​@@sy-ky_buddy4603 I wish it was Norrath, but did you see the Turtle WoW Unreal Engine announcement? Twow has a Slow and Steady challenge mode that turns level 40+ into hell levels almost. Worth checking out imo.

@@sy-ky_buddy4603 auto matchmaking and cross server is the blight that killed mmos please no

@@sy-ky_buddy4603 it's crazy but game development cycles HAVE changes... the engines are different, the needs are more complex, and the overall turnaround to produce said MMORPG versus the profit margins does NOT interest major publishers. I recently watched a very good documentary on this that I highly recommend. Check it out if you get bored later: "The Entire History of RPGs" by NeverKnowsBest He also made a documentary called "The History of MMOs" which you'd think would be more relevant but in my opinion, his recent documentary on RPGs really nails it as to why we don't see games like EverQuest anymore.

KZfaq tends to auto send you to lower resolutions (it was set to 720 for me) but in general yeah there's going to be issues with streaming due to bitrate.

Forging still in testing but it was cool last time I was testing

Thanks Friend

Rock ON Its PVL Audio making the sound music and integration in the game :)

@@philippevalois4826 thank you for the correction! I’ll amend my comment. It sounds great, if that’s you behind it, great job!

Been also following that long, i refuse to pledge till Druid is in. lol

@@tumeden very fair, Druid is so iconic. All these classes are just too irreplaceable

Yeah, nothing burns me out on an MMO faster than having to play keyboard DDR nonstop to maximize my DPS. Ability usage in MMOs should be in reaction to what's happening in the fight, not "repeatedly press buttons in a certain order"

Yes, but two points to make. 1. Ranger was just implemented last major update and has not received any iterative passes with player feedback yet. 2. Just because Cohh uses an ability on cooldown, it doesn't mean that ability was used optimally. Crazy concept I know.

​@michaelmorrison5280 maybe, but playing Paladin and Monk it really has felt very button mashy. The abilities all have dmg + minor effect mostly. The niches aren't strong enough and abilities not unique enough. If everything does dmg, then you are incentiviced to press them unless the niche is extreme enough to invoke strategical placement. Until they figure it out combat will simply he sub par and passable. The overall game really is great, but combat was very button mashy with little reason to wait considering so many classes lost mana in favor of infinite builder spender concepts like... modern WoW. Very strange decision.

Right now they are unlimited, you have an arrow for the arrow slot, but you can fire it as much as you like, it's more of a "stat" stick right now. They may try some things during testing but, currently, that's how arrows function.

They’ve said they are going to be unlimited and you’ll be able to equip different types of arrows.

@@mightypug7116 This is great! This is how I would design arrows in a game. 10000% happy about this. Ive been saying to do this for over 25 years now. lol

@@little0ff This is great! This is how I would design arrows in a game. 10000% happy about this. Ive been saying to do this for over 25 years now. lol

@@yerpyerp one thing I noticed Joppa say during the video is that Rangers will be able to forage for, and craft, different items that are applied to weapons. That would suggest special effects such as poison, fire, and ice effects that can be applied and probably have a timed duration.

Right now on their website?

sorry

GM cheats? They just used GM teleport to get the group together and move to where they wanted to be for the stream is all. They weren't wanting to demo travel and climbing and whatnot. There will be minimal long distance fast travel methods in Pantheon anyway (like other old school games), but it's not a priority to have that kind of thing in game now. I really mean no insult, but if you're not seeing the gameplay and the differences, maybe watch again. It is hard to demonstrate MMORPG gameplay at all, though, because - in a good MMORPG anyway - what makes them good is the nuance and complexity of the underlying mechanics that you only appreciate and enjoy when you are actually playing and when you've been playing a while. It's very hard to pick up on them when watching. You get just a hint of that when, for example, Joppa and Cohh were talking about the tactics of whether or not to use the Ranger's resource, Momentum. Joppa could talk about that kind of thing for hours on end (and does so on other Pantheon YT vids), but in a Cohh streams they more want to just play the game. There are dozens of underlying interacting mechanics like that, some unique to particular classes, and then the added complexity of the interdependence of the group members' different class/role mechanics (and also the monsters all have player character-like complexity under the hood). More and more of those have been brought online each time the game is shown. I agree that years ago we were already seeing a good and simple Everquest-like experience. Sure, it is frustrating that it seems so long to take that forward, but the difficulty of taking forward an old school MMORPG experience and modernising and expanding/enhancing it as much as this has been, but still maintain the feel of an old school game? That cannot be underestimated. That and the usual yaddah yaddah about a small indie crowd funded team that is true, but people are sick of hearing...

Yes, they do plan to add more. They actually used to have more but they took them out--The graphical changes with the new art style broke all of the old models causing them to randomly crash our game clients. That was not a fun test session when we found that out. Ogre is coming in I think August, and Gnome will be coming sometime not too long after. They have plans for 9 total, and they plan to have 6 in by the time Early Access launches in December.

They are launching in EA in December with 6 races planned. Human, Halfling, Elf, Ogre, Dwarf and I think some water alien creature. They will also have character creation so everyone doesn't look the same. It'll be pretty diverse. WoW only had 8 races at launch.

Warhammer return of reckoning

@@jessedurney555 I loved Warhammer online (obviously) 😂 I’ve avoided private servers for games because everything can just be taken away in an instant… maybe I’ll give it a shot. Thanks for the suggestion!

@@c0nv3rg3enjoy

The videos don't do justice. I have 50+ hours of recorded live streams of this game in 2K quality but nothing compared to being in game. BUT you're not wrong: some textures are still placeholders, animations are WIP, and new NPCs and world building is coming along nicely. The gameplay itself is fun, the classes feel fleshed out, and the group play is spot on. That said, they still have a long way to go. Oh and the sound design is incredible. Regarding their progress, yes it's been in development since 2014 but due to a laundry list of development issues (including the passing of Brad McQuaid) the game development basically had to hit the reset button in 2021. So if we're being fair, they've been adopting this more streamlined and open development style for about 3 years now and have a long way to go.

Yeah it'd asstastic. The gfx looked better than like 5 years ago they've regressed, it's wild how terrible this games development has gone

​​@@sweetfryyeah, it definitely could have went smoother. With that said , it is a crowd funded game with not a lot of money and devs. Most devs have day jobs and work on this game as a side project. Sometimes people ask for far too much

​@@sweetfryThey havent had a linear development process at all, at certain points they were out of money, keeping a skeleton crew of volunteers around to try and get something done. They havent had consistent funding or developers until relatively recently. The fact they stuck with it and didnt call it quits years ago is testament to their dedication, and the game is coming together faster than it ever was. What you are comparing is a vertical slice from years ago to a playable (mostly) functional game. But to each their own, I'm excited for it.

Eq2 necro sucks lol

You never played Vanguard then , that Necro smokes eq and eq2 necro.

@@strykrpinoy VG Necros were the best! Played Eq1 &2 Necros, nothing beats the VG Necro. Sadly they are going more EQ Necro than VG

EQ 1 Necros could heal, rez, dps, solo, be off tanks. I really hope we get that style. Many of the class designs have felt very button mashy and not strategically planned with strong niches.

Also yeah, Vanguard had the best class design of any MMO I've ever played. Blood Mage was amazing. Druid was perfect. I'm shocked they didn't study that games design more.

Mine is stuck at 360p

yah stream quality seems to be at 720p.

@@classified5790 I experienced the same but coming back it is 720P. Cohh has the vod on Twitch at 1080P.

It could be that KZfaq is still transcoding the video since it was only uploaded an hour ago. When I do live streams in 2K, it sometimes takes KZfaq 24 hours to "allow" people to watch it in HD. This is just my assumption though, I haven't started watching the video yet.

Sure there is more design and animation work to do and I understand the concern, but I disagree about it looking worse. For me, the original style, which was kinda trying to be 'realistic', like many games, was not realistic enough and, so often looked clunky and odd. It would have taken an immense amount of work to make it look good and that isn't the focus and old school MMOROPG should really have anyway. Though I do NOT want a 'cartoony' feel, I do like 'stylised' graphics, because they are usually are much more successful at presenting a fantasy world consistently and immersively. Like Cohh, when they first presented the 'painted' style I was concerned it may feel cartoony, but consistently at the time and since Joppa has explicitly addressed those concerns and stated that he wants a gritty and grown-up feel to the world and is confident that they can deliver that. Each iteration I've seen (and yes I play the pre-alpha) gets better and better in that regard. I like the current graphics and I'm glad they took the difficult decision to go in a direction that means a consistent, effective style that is easier to produce and I am confident it will never be cartoony like WoW or Wildstar and will lean toward dark rather than whimsical.

Yeah they said it's supposed to be the spiritual successor. It looks like it might be the spiritual successor to everquest 2....I could see that 😂

@@zac2877 please don't insult EQ2 like that. Even this game can not be the spiritual successor to EQ2. At this point I would much rather go back to EQ2 I think. At least that game at 20 years old has way better graphics and user movement than this.

​@alphadragongamingFTW Good job comparing a FINISHED game to a still in development game. Even now, there will be significant combat changes and improved graphic changes. You folks are so disingenuous with your complaints.

@@broquietstorm1266lmao bro the games been in development for 10 years, Warcraft took 5

@@paradopx8618 I hope you're laughing at your egregious ignorance and false equivalency between an MMO being made by a major studio with hundreds of millions of dollars and a staff of hundreds vs a small, mostly part-time staff who started with nothing and are still needing funds. Again you folks with your disingenuous nonsense acting like you have a clue. Do better.

Agreed. I was concerned when they first presented the graphics, but I directly questioned Joppa (I think it appears on one of the recordings of a roundtable discussion) and he said then, and has consistently reassured since then, that they want and intend a gritty, dark, grown-up experience and there's no reason the painted art-style can't be that way. To me (who does play the pre-alpha whenever I like these days) it looks better each time I see it. Textures and animations are still being refined and lighting is being used well to make the atmosphere 'serious' rather then 'whimsical'.

Watching an hour long video full of GM summoning and GM killing and GM rings doesn't really help either

Yeah, that's MMOs in general, but especially this. It's so much better playing though it's pretty wild. Idk how to explain it, it looks boring, but it's not.

Seriously!, IKR!?!

I agree that its too cartoony. Ill probably check it out eventually anyway, but i am disappointed by the graphics.

EQ was cartoony lol

Lol. Everquest was fantastic, literally, but was cartoony and whimsical AF. Snot-faced, goofy-looking ogres that scratched their butts? Doll-faced warrioresses with glittery chainmail bikinis? If you don't like the painted art style, fine, but to suggest EQ felt 'gritty' by comparison is pretty ridiculous. The lesson from EQ is that realistic graphics are pretty much utterly unimportant to immersion and gameplay. I enjoy classic EQ (Project 1999) recently more than modern MMOs and the graphics have nothing to do with it. Even so, Joppa has time and again said that they will deliver a dark, gritty, grown-up experience (as much as high fantasy can be that way) and there's no reason why that can't be done with a painted art style and the graphics get better each time I see them (and, yes, I do play in the pre-alpha). P.S: The quality of the stream does not help the look of the graphics.

@@bigdavedogdad i hope so! 🙂 Graphics was never my main thing, art style and direction is much more important to me. That said, if im to phrase it better, i dont like the art style choice when it comes to some animals in particular that I think look a bit too goofy and bring me a little out of immersion. I dont mind silly, but with things like snakes or wolves i prefer an artstyle that tries to stay faithful to reality as much as it can. I do personally think EQ had this balance down quite well.

@@prodesu8607 I know what you mean. The early renders of wolves looked a tad weird/goofy, but looked better when actually moving in game and it's all subject to improvement.

@@zazikikomo7796 so sad to see them lack vision after brad's gone. making another WoW clone is the furthest from what players want

@@PabloEdvardo They aren't making a WoW clone. That dude above is spouting nonsense. Of course it's not exactly EQ. That game controls like crap and has crap camera. It's old. What we want is an updated EQ, not an exact EQ. Pantheon is still very much that game.

Stamina bar makes just moving about fun. If you go over the limit your sprint is gone for a long time. If you measure it right your sprint is up far longer. It's a slight skill in basic movement that's nothing like modern MMOs.

I'm assuming you've played the game and since I also have, here's my feedback: it has EQ elements but it's not trying to be EQ. It's more akin to EQ2 and Vanguard... that was Brad's vision. It plays like a classic MMO with modern mechanics and conveniences. It's still a work in progress, they have a long way to go, but from what I've played it's FUN and the world is one you can get immersed in. Grouping is very rewarding and solo play is possible but rightly challenging. This is just my 2 cents as someone that's put in 50+ hours of recorded live streams on my YT channel for this game.

​@@ClassNCoolthey have a long way to go is the problem dude it's already been what...10 years? This looks like something someone could have made in their spare time in 3-4 years.

@@sweetfry LOL at 10 years.

@@ClassNCool we all know how EQ2 turned out 🙂

A good game will always succeed. It feels plenty like EQ in all the important ways. There is literally nothing on the horizon worth playing. Modern MMOs are shyte

The world has expanded greatly, systems have been updated and refined, classes are being added.. that's the opposite of copium you human parrot.

Your still watching the vids tho ?

Like what studio. Im honestly curious.

Basically almost every MMO that has been released in the last 10 years. You can look for the studios yourself if you're honestly interested. Pantheon is probably the MMORPG that has the most outdated and worst visuals by the time of release.

The most popular games have awful graphics dude. LoL,Fortnite, WoW. Noone cares about graphics that much. Nintendo proved that 😅

This game was never going to attract a new generation. The only "traditional" MMOs that exist anymore are WoW due to sheer momentum and FFXIV and those are still what many people who would like this game would consider modern. This game was always only going to attract the oldest school MMO fans.

What 'standards'? Pantheon will attract anyone, young or old, who want a challenging, complex, group-based, community-based MMORPG. Graphics need to be fantastic and immersive. The painted art style can absolutely deliver that. Anyone looking for a decent MMORPG will not be prioritising the graphics anyway. VR realised that to deliver consistent convincing immersive graphics with 'realism' was much more intensive than they could achieve with a small indie team. I don't want a cartoony feeling game, but with all the reassurances from Joppa that they will still deliver a gritty, dark, grown-up experience with this art style and with what I am seeing in game, I'm happy. Let's face it: Classic Everquest (played project 1999 recently) is still better than modern MMORPGs and the graphics are, by 'modern standards' bad and cartoony. The graphics are almost irrelevant to good gameplay and as long as they are consistent and pleasing, they are immersive. Don't like the painted art style? *shrug* Oh dear. Subjectivity is painful for some.

@@zazikikomo7796 then you havent play tested it dawg

@@tormmac Why would anyone play that hot garbage?

Wow had tons more devs and money.

@@justin28715 and the tech they had was abysmal compared to now. Stop making up excuses for poor decisions.

Wow had millions and millions of money to spend. Remember all the money they had from games like diablo and diablo 2? Warcraft? It wasn’t a Indie studio

Comparing the development of Pantheon to just about any other development, especially a Blizzard one, is pointless and worthless. So what if an indie, small, crowd funded, mostly part-time team has taken 10 years since kickstarter (not all of which time could be said to be anything like solid 'development' of the game) to get this far? What if it took 50 years to get this far? What's the point being made?

The opoid epidemic has caused so many problems. RIP Brad. Vote better people...Brad would still be with us.

Father along than it ever was with Brad.

You clearly haven't played Everquest much if you think this looks the same. Even then, EQ is still a better game than pretty much any subjectively 'better looking' modern MMORPGs, so...

Well unfortunately for you Cohh probably does a hell of a lot more for this project than you do.

@@mushafasa Unfortunately for me...gee you sure got me there. hw

@@Shoop... I have to apologize, I've thought about it and come to realize that everything you've done for Pantheon far outweighs the resources and exposure Cohh gives to the devs and the project as a whole. On behalf of the community I would like to personally extend our thanks and gratitude to you. You're a rockstar.

the nicest guy on twitch and you dont want anything to do with him?

Whilst there were games in 2009 that had a 'painted' art style and looked similar, so what? As long as it enables immersion and feels 'good', so what? (and that, of course, is subjective). What really *does* look dated when it comes to graphics is games that try for the realism and usually fail. Those that over-reach and under-achieve, especially in a small indie team with limited resources. Either way, it's a good thing that realistic graphics are utterly unimportant for a fantasy MMORPG, eh? Classic Everquest (Project 1999) is still better than modern MMORPGs, to a lot of people, notably most of the supporters of Pantheon, and its graphics looked very dated and are arguably more cartoony. Don't like the painted art style? Oh dear *shrug*.

They're about to be updated along with the implementation of the Ogre and new armor fitment system. I think that update is coming in August, but don't quote me on that.

Yeah. Graphically even looks like EQ2, garish and low quality

@@sweetfry lol wtf. EQ2 has 10x better graphics than this. This is like Wish Fortnite graphics.

Wrong on both accounts

​@Mr.Amazing-vx3li Share the info on why it's not either? Curious did EQ take 12 years of development... rhetorical. But please answer why it's not a clone or doesn't "look" like EQ.

@@Capius1272 You're not going to get someone to provide all the mass of information you're asking for, especially when it is all in many vids, wikis and websites for you to see if you look for yourself. In short, yes, Pantheon is going to feel like an 'old school' MMORPG as far as being complex, community/group focused, exploration focused, challenging, etc, but the mechanics are significantly more complex. The brief mention of the tactics around the Ranger Momentum resource were a very small taste of one of many such mechanics that makes Pantheon significantly more sophisticated (and difficult to develop). EQ didn't take 12 years, but then it was fully funded by Sony quite early and was much less complex. Also - small point - Pantheon hasn't been in development 12 years (original failed kickstarter in 2014. New website seeking funding months later) and a lot of the time since it first got significant funding (2015) was spent seeking further funding around a wholly Unity based prototype that eventually got re-developed. It has been a very non-linear, non-standard development. Also graphics are subjective, but to say it's "the same" as a 20 year old game is just ridiculous. People may not like the 'painted' art style, but comparison 20 year old graphics is just silly. It's maybe something to do with the stream quality, but even then, you can see the lighting and textures are way more advanced than old games, esp. than EQ. Also, these aren't the finished graphics, though the style is likely final. Also, EQ and some other old school MMORPGs with 'bad graphics' are still better games than modern MMORPGs with 'good graphics'.

EQ players and original EQ devs are involved.

Everquest is dead? Weird, I'm still playing it ;)

@@TheAradar Show me where I said Everquest is dead. Take your meds.

He overdosed

Brad McQuaid's co-developer of Everquest, Steve Clover, is on the team... So... Yeah... More than just players of EQ...

dude, this game was FAR along, and was scrapped when brad died. So, they rebuilt the game from the ground up. THIS is why it taking so long to come out now. this game is nothing like how it was. they changed EVERYthing >.> i wasted 1000$ on this grabage.... i liked how Brad game was going, and when he died... so did his game he was making. Reply

@@JaqenHactual game didn’t even exist when Brad was still there. All focus was on building hype with BS demos. I’m amazed with what this team has done in the last 3 years

There wasn’t a game back them just a few demos with little zones and no server tech. It didn’t exist

The graphics look like 2006.. but thats part of the allure for some. The nostalgia goes a long way for seasoned gamers. I have a 14900k and a 4090 and have more fun playing this game than Throne and Liberty for example. If they could get this ported to UE5 I wouldnt mind believe me! Though the graphics dont bother me when I'm playing.

Disagree, but then it is subjective. The previous graphics were clunky; attempting and failing at complex realism. I prefer an art style that is more consistent and immersive. I definitely don't want cartoony, but there's no reason this painted style needs to be that way and so far it's looking fine and Joppa has reassured repeatedly it will be dark, gritty and grown-up. As others have commented, the kind of people interested in an 'old school' MMORPG experienced, even modernised, are way less interested in graphics than they are in challenge, complexity, community, etc. Personally, I played EQ Project 1999 - original graphics - recently and it has better gameplay and immersion than modern MMORPGs. The graphics are immaterial. Basically, given it is all subjective, VR made the right choice to use an art style they can produce with less development pain.

Who cares

Cool story bro

what most of us want...

​@@roberthensley4689you want a game from 2014? Da fuq? No, most if the original backers of this game wanted a game akin to eq1 in its gameplay. But now they've gone down the attempted mass appeal route, even tho this will never amount to having mass appeal so they're pushing out their original niche for the sake of something that will never happen. It's sad and disgusting

@@sweetfry have you ever played the game? My guess is no.. it feels very much like playing EQ to me. Because I've actually played it, leveled character, done crafting, grinded for spell money. What have they done outside of a graphics change that gives you the impression they are trying to appeal to a mass market?

Wow! Graduating high school at 10 years old!

Do you think he needs to be praising them? It's been a total shit show for years now.

it's his money invested in them, not sure why he's obliged to be all smiley face about it.

im sure he will lose significant sleep dude...

​@@lolcat5303He should be disgusted with how much money he's lost on this fail, I know I would be. He gives off awkward "pretending to like my xmas gift to not make my parents sad" vibes whenever he's playing this

and why does he keep whining about 10 years - like the trolls do? starting the dev timer at the f'ing Kickstarter announcement is not just unfair, its dumb.

I respectfully disagree, feels nothing like any korean mmo. having played 3 testing session now I can say that the game is much more connected to the original tab targeting mmo style than any other upcoming game i've tried. feels like a mixture of vanguard & eq2 kinda. If you are looking for more of a original EQ experience I'd recommend keeping your eyes peeled for Monsters & Memories which is another upcoming MMO that most definitely has its roots in the original EQ primarily. although there is still tons of work left for the Pantheon I can say that they are definitely on the right track. exploring the world you definitely get a sense of danger, can be very unforgiving and the game as a whole is very very team oriented. Dont forget the game is still in pre-alpha, there are a lot of things still not quite there.

@@Qonvex Still looks lame.

​@@Wayzor_ looks fine and really fun to play. That's all that matters

Completely agree, I prefer the old graphics as well and now looks very lame. Been playing EQ since it launched and was very excited for this game but now with cartoon crap for graphics I've lost my excitement.

Couldn't disagree more with the Korean MMO statement. The opinions on GFX and EQness is subjective and a personal opinion. My personal opinion is the old graphics would have aged quickly versus the new painted art style. The gameplay mechanics are more akin to EQ2 and Vanguard (not the original EverQuest) to your point that it doesn't "feel like EQ". The closest game to the original EverQuest experience is Monsters and Memories which they're doing a great job at.