Compairing a Dovetail Jig to Hand Cut Duvetails

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5 жыл бұрын

When cutting your first hand-cut-dovetails it can be a scary thing. so should you just a jig or guide to help you get the tight joints you are looking for? in this video we will be comparing making dovetails with and without a guide or jig.
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Пікірлер: 111

@katzmosestools 5 жыл бұрын

Fabulous video James! Instead of trying to cut left handed you could always turn the board around in your vise. I am jealous of your ambidextrous skills though!

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

oh that is a great idea thanks. I try to be able to use all my hand tools with both hands. It is a hard skill to learn but I enjoy it.

@Subsonic-cd2en 5 жыл бұрын

If you don't want to take the time to flip the board around, couldn't you just put the jig on the back side of the board?

@katzmosestools 5 жыл бұрын

@@Subsonic-cd2en yes

@thomastieffenbacherdocsava1549 5 жыл бұрын

My first thought was reverse the board. Afew others did too. LOL!

@jeroenverbeeck7925 4 жыл бұрын

love the love between 2 of my favourite woodworking channels

@benmccormick5432 5 жыл бұрын

Great as always James. Thanks for all your hard work!

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

My pleasure Ben.

@ronmack1767 5 жыл бұрын

Neat jig James. Thank you for the videos and taking time to produce them. Take care and God bless.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ron. My pleasure.

@hollysmith562 5 жыл бұрын

great video I started off with the Katz Moses dovetail guide and I love it and now I can cut dovetails with or without it. I think it's a great jig and I recommend it 2 anyone wanting 2 learn 2 cut dovetails

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Right on.

@robertbrunston5406 5 жыл бұрын

Jigs are good! Thanks James.

@FredMcIntyre 5 жыл бұрын

Awesome stuff James! 👍👊

@rick91443 5 жыл бұрын

Great video James. The Katz-Moses Jig is total perfection. Might drop a few hints for Xmas or next birthday. Thanks for the demonstration...rr

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Lol sounds like a good idea!

@jimscheltens2647 5 жыл бұрын

I’ve cut a fair number of dovetails without the K-M jig and some with it. I find the jig useful, since it seems to take a lot of concentration for me to saw to a line. If I don’t keep my eye on the line and concentrate I tend to drift off the line when sawing free hand. I start the cut without the jig so I can get the saw precisely where I want it relative to the knife mark on the endgrain. Once the cut is started I slap the jig in place and quickly saw down to the baseline without having to carefully follow the line. Starting the cut without the jig also keeps the tooth set of the western saw I use from scratching the jig. I turn the board around so I’m always sawing with my right hand.

@mmohon 5 жыл бұрын

I started out using the K-M jig, but I've gotten to the point that I can do it without the jig. That being said, it's quick and easy to cut a set really quick with the jig, and I reach for it all the time.

@craigmouldey2339 3 жыл бұрын

You did a really good job either way.

@wb_finewoodworking 5 жыл бұрын

As always this is an excellent video from you James. I have to admit that I have yet to cut dovetails either by hand or with a jig. None of my projects have required them. It is something I’ll be doing in the future. This video will help. I greatly appreciate the fact that you are open to all types of woodworking and not one who thinks that woodworkers must pick one want of doing things. To me one of the great things about woodworking is there are a lot of different ways to do a job and none of them are the “right” way to do them. We seem to share that philosophy.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

so true. as long as you are safe and having fun that is the right way.

@HWCism 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Keep it fun.

@MrMNRichardWright 5 жыл бұрын

Really nice comparison. Your very critical evaluation gives us all something to aspire to. They both looked darn good to me. The little jig in wood clogs was worth staying to the end.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Lol thanks for sticking around to the end trying to save a dad joke for then.

@MrMNRichardWright 5 жыл бұрын

Wood By Wright we should embrace the Dad joke

@patrickinottawa27 5 жыл бұрын

James, tag Wotheffort and Katz, I want to see them demonstrate their jig just as you did at 11:10 in the video. Three very fine YT makers and all with a good sense of humor.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Very true. I watch them both.

@wortheffort 5 жыл бұрын

Good balanced comparison except I'd like to differ on one point you repeated, doesn't' take years of experience to free hand cut. Maybe a weekend.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

thanks. True as long as long as you can cut strait to start with.

@pgfollett 5 жыл бұрын

Absolutely right; it doesn't take long to develop the muscle memory required to do accurate dovetails freehand. The jigs are kind of like training wheels to me. Use one for the first few jobs, then move on.

@63DegreesNorth 5 жыл бұрын

Yup. I followed your Dovetails Demystified series and made your dovetail gauge (I think James has a good video about this also!) and spent just a few hours at the bench with some pine boards. With accurate layout down, it's down to saw and chisel technique, something that will benefit pretty much everything else in your woodworking. Practice, practice, practice.

@guyjones4936 5 жыл бұрын

I love your videos and Jame's videos but I beg to differ. I grew up in a total power tool workshop. We did everything with power tools including dovetails. Up until recently, I almost never used hand tools. Trying to develop good sawing technique and cutting dovetails is incredibly difficult. So far I have only cut about thirty dovetails in total and out of those only about 5 have actually fit well. My layout is consistent but my technique is still sloppy. I can see where a jig could be useful but, for me, trying to perfect a skill, a jig seems like a crutch instead of a help. JMHO.

@JeepTherapy 5 жыл бұрын

I have to agree with James. There are a few people out there that have zero motor control skills due to their life experiences.

@trick58 5 жыл бұрын

Nice, fair comparison. I agree with your conclusion. After taking 6 years off from making a dovetail, I found I was confused on my process. Using the jig made me feel comfortable and I could turn out adequate joints from the start. (As far as left handed sawing, I turned the board around and it solved that problem - haha, just showed you don't use the jig much!) After the jig helped me relearn my techniques, I went to Rob Cossman's "another approach" dovetail video, watched him whip out great joints in 5 minutes and I regained all my confidence to go back to freehand. Thanks again for a great and fair review. Keep it up.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I like to learn to saw with both hands as there are times in casework that you have to use the other hand. plus it saves the time of flipping the board, but I am a bit odd. LOL

@oscarrush2254 5 жыл бұрын

Always makes me amazed if you watch rob cosman the guys a magician with his saw.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

he is indeed!

@-Benedict 5 жыл бұрын

Jigs, as a general concept, are pretty fantastic. They exist to make our lives easier, and an easier life is a good thing. The only problem I have with the KM dovetail jig is a really picky one - I think the sound of sawing up against it is quite unpleasant. I would use it if I needed to make uniform dovetails every day, though.

@waynevanderveer6044 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing have seen them and was wondering if they were worth spending the money on will definately be purchasing. I am getting back to my early years and relearning the hand tools again after 30 plus years of power tools. Love your channel keep the Dad jokes coming my wife groans at every one of them she also enjoys your wife's commentary during the videos, she relates I guess.

@WoodByWright 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks man. We'll keep them coming.

@guyjones4936 5 жыл бұрын

James, I just started cutting dovetails for the first time. I am making a tool chest using them for the case and the drawers. I have already learned that with hand cut dovetails, the final product is completely dependent on how much time you take paring and cleaning the joint. I have considered a jig but I think it is better to learn freehand and then once I have the skill, go to a jig for convenience.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Love the Outlook.

@brianp1993 5 жыл бұрын

Great video! I think its a great way to train your hand. The jig would probably save some time if you had to batch out a bunch of drawers, yes you could buy a machine, but this is probably just as fast

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Right on.

@Cadwaladr 5 жыл бұрын

I had to do some dovetails recently, and I just made a Paul Sellers guide thingy to mark out the lines, but cut freehand, and I thought it was helpful. It's also nice to make your own guide, because you can use any angle you want. I did 1:5.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Right on. That's what makes it great there's so many ways of doing it.

@waterfordrs22 5 жыл бұрын

Paul Sellers may have five different guides for all I know. If it's the one I've see. Him demonstrate on video, the advantage to that is his method allows for the entire layout to be figured out on the jig..... then you'd register your boards and away you go. It would be good for working in batches. If I remember he typically just follows his lines freehand when making his jig/template. In that sense, they should have a slightly More relaxed look. Obvious this jog could be used to cut Paul's template quicker. Jigs are inventive and playful, as critical a set of assets as the hand eye coordination behind hand cutting such joints...... great stuff

@thomastieffenbacherdocsava1549 5 жыл бұрын

Magnets! Great addition for us that are visually challenged! LOL!

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

that is a great point. thanks! I will add that to the list of pros!

@JeepTherapy 5 жыл бұрын

To each his own. The awesome thing about using that jig is if you make a wedge to put behind it, you can do compound dovetails. :-)

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Now that is too much fun.

@eldie3d Жыл бұрын

Hey Wright... You cut the right side cuts with the jig dovetails smoothly. When you got to the left side cuts, you looked awkward and mentioned, "I try to be ambidextrous". Why not just loosen the vise and turn your workpiece around - make the back into the front and the front into the back - or, change your awkward left cuts to smooth right cuts by flipping your board around???! 🤷

@WoodByWright Жыл бұрын

Flipping it is the way most people do it. I take every opportunity I can to try and teach both hands to do the work as some times you have to use the other hand.

@reforzar 5 жыл бұрын

Gettin jiggy with it!

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

You know it.

@gravelcreekfarms3850 5 жыл бұрын

The jig would help with form and I guess over time you could develop the muscle memory that Paul S always speaks of

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Yup. Like a good set of training wheels!

@Sarrienne 5 жыл бұрын

Yay, bonus Dad Joke right at the end!!!!!

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

I was hoping a couple people would stick around to watch that last section

@weldabar 5 жыл бұрын

I didn't get the joke until you explained it. It's late, yeah that's it, I have a sense of humor.

@JimDockrellWatertone 5 жыл бұрын

Nice review. That's not a gap, it's a feature.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

LOL I like the way you think Jim!

@walterrider9600 5 жыл бұрын

thank you

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Anytime.

@ronnakeil3313 5 жыл бұрын

Nice

@petertiffney4413 5 жыл бұрын

So James are you going to send the me the guide to me in the UK Nice video pete

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Yup he ships over seas.

@corwind3888 9 ай бұрын

Guess you could cut a rug with that last jig.

@jeffkerr4249 5 жыл бұрын

Getting Jiggy with It !

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

You know it!

@MakeBrooklyn 5 жыл бұрын

I don't have that one, I have an older David Barron one. I also switch the saw to my left hand, especially with the jig it's not that hard. I only really use it when the tails will show and I'm doing the very skinny showy tails. With the skinny tails, slight variations are much easier to see so the jig keeps everything nice and consistent. I think that third dovetail jig you showed at the end is illegal in my state, so I won't be using that one ;) .

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

LOL but I like my Jig!

@whknee 2 жыл бұрын

What is your approach to pins, do you cut against the marking line? or do you split the marking line? I have been going against the line and my dovetails are always very tight (too tight).

@WoodByWright 2 жыл бұрын

I use a knife rather than a pencil. A knife will give you a deadly accurate mark. Everything on one side of the cut stays and everything on the other side of the cut goes. It doesn't have a thickness like a pencil does.

@nickglover 2 жыл бұрын

This is the second video on the jig I've seen where they say you have to switch hands to saw the other side. Why not just turn the board around? You don't need the lines going down the board when you've got a jig, just the line on top.

@WoodByWright 2 жыл бұрын

Turning the board around just takes more time. Learning to saw with both hands is a usefully skill that is useful in many situations.

@MyVinylRips 5 жыл бұрын

When I use a magnet guide like this I just flip the board! Never occured to me that I had to become ambidextrous..?!

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

ya a lot of people like to flip the board. I just find it easier to use the other hand. But I have spent a good chunk of time teaching my non dominant hand. it is a good skill to learn as you can not always flip the board.

@MyVinylRips 5 жыл бұрын

Good point! I'm impressed by your lefty skills nonetheless!

@JoshBabin 5 жыл бұрын

The is one sexy dovetail saw....brand?

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

It is from BearKat. But you got to get in line. He has a waiting list over a year long

@thomasarussellsr 5 жыл бұрын

You don't have to cut the second side of the pins left handed, you can flip the board around. Get jiggy with it.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

corect. I forgot to mention that. I just find it easier to learn to saw with both hands as there are times when you can not just flip a board around because it is attached to something else. plus it is much faster noting having to flip the boars and reline everything. and with the jig it is a great time to learn non dominant hand sawing as the jig will keep it in line.

@thomasarussellsr 5 жыл бұрын

Wood By Wright cool. If I can get a jig I'll try opposing hand sawing. I looked and even though it is fairly affordable, I'll have to save up for it and hope no emergencies occur that takes the savings. Fixed income/ poor really stinks.

@gizanked 5 жыл бұрын

We can dance if we want to. We can also do a jig if we want I guess.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

LOL in my shop any time!

@meanders9221 5 жыл бұрын

Time to dance! Where's Safety Dan??

@harleywood9588 8 ай бұрын

Flip the board around

@bdbensley 5 жыл бұрын

use a clamp on the jig.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

I could, but that would take even more time. Just my personal preference.

@carbonitegamorrean8368 5 жыл бұрын

I'm ambi but if John sent me one I think I'd have to have He-Man hold it.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Lol nice!

@katzmosestools 5 жыл бұрын

hahahahahaha

@carbonitegamorrean8368 5 жыл бұрын

;-)

@tomvincent5596 5 жыл бұрын

Can't you just turn the wood around and cut instead of swaping hands?

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

you could but that takes more time and setup. one of the reasons I learn to use most all of my tools with both hands as there are times like half blind dovetails that you can not do that.

@tomvincent5596 5 жыл бұрын

@@WoodByWright hat off to you I can't do anything left handed

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

I never could eather tell I started working with hand tools. it still feels odd, but it was fun to force myself to learn.

@wernerbuchner9907 5 жыл бұрын

Why don't you just flip the stock?

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Personally I've trained myself to work with both hands because there are times when you cannot just put the stock around so for me it's easier to just use the other hand the other than spending the time to flip the stock around and realign it on the other side. But it's just a personal preference

@63DegreesNorth 5 жыл бұрын

Hi James, thanks for the video. These kinds of things strike me as being a bit of a lazymans shortcut serving largely to remove skill from the craft. Fine for 'makers' perhaps, who can't possibly achieve high levels of proficiency in all the crafts they bring to their projects, but I'd question woodworkers who think they're building their craftsmanship, yet they substitute the proven path to develop those skills for a bit of plastic with magnets and etched logos. It's just a product and people are busy convincing themselves they need one or will benefit from it. The majority won't. I'm not a purist by any means, but what's the point in 'cheating' to achieve the result? You might as well get a router and a dovetail jig and just crank out the work if you're not going to learn to do it the right way, IMHO. Not at all directed at you of course, just some food for thought generally.

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I view the guide more like training wheels it helps train the muscles while still allowing you to turn out quality, but in time it is something that can be done edge as the skills improve.

@63DegreesNorth 5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. Maybe you could consider doing some kind of a series about 'upping your game', around skills progression in hand tool woodworking from basic ways to do something to more advanced skills. I'd really enjoy seeing it, especially when you've such an easygoing and welcoming demeanour. I think that could really encourage many of your subscribers to feel confident enough to try things that improve their abilities. Thanks for the reply and all the effort you put into these videos. I mean that very genuinely - Thank you.

@mattsadventureswithart5764 5 жыл бұрын

Or you could just flip the board around instead of swapping hands...

@WoodByWright 5 жыл бұрын

true, but that takes more time.

@mattsadventureswithart5764 5 жыл бұрын

@@WoodByWright also true 👍

@marshallshelton6262 5 жыл бұрын

I just timed myself turning a board around in the vise, averaged 6 seconds, didn't try sawing left handed but I'm thinking it would be more than 6 seconds longer and much less accurate.