Comparing Thorens vs. Linn vs. AR Vintage Turntables

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Comparing Thorens vs. Linn vs. AR Vintage Turntables

Рет қаралды 1,098

Күн бұрын

If you own an AR-X, AR Turntable, Linn LP12, or any Thorens Used Turntable, this is a must see. Full comparisons of the suspension family of vintage turntables.
audibleeleganc...
thorens.audio
www.linn.co.uk...
#linn #lp12 #thorens #turntables #turntable #hifi #audiophile #vinyl #vinylcommunity #homeaudio #hifiaudio #hifirush #audioreview #stereophile #rega #technics

Пікірлер: 22

@watdanuqta-mf5ms 2 ай бұрын

I think that you're the first person on KZfaq to discuss damaged bearings in old(er) turntables. Outside of audio dealers, no one talks about this.

@audibleeleganceinc 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for your comment and taking the time to contribute to this channel. Yes, most people pay no attention to this very critical part.

@may_68 2 ай бұрын

The Collaro Transcription Units used a 3 point sprung suspension from 1956 as well as a mechanically decoupled arm board. Well before AR or Thorens.

@audibleeleganceinc 2 ай бұрын

Please send me a link to our website showing this. All I can find is a 1956 Magnavox Collaro Turntable which fails to reveal the 3 point suspension of the table other than the traditional putting the whole table on springs. Most curious.

@audibleeleganceinc 2 ай бұрын

Yes, I have just learned that from another. Thank you for pointing this out as well. Do you know if it was meant to be tuned?

@may_68 2 ай бұрын

@@audibleeleganceinc No. Not meant to be tuned as there's no adjustment.

@audibleeleganceinc 2 ай бұрын

@@may_68 But clearly the rudimentary start. Interesting.

@zizendorf 2 ай бұрын

Informative video Lou. I'll stick with belt drive.

@jedi-mic 2 ай бұрын

What you mean by tuning what are you actually tuning? Well a turntable isn't shot if the bearing is worn in the Thorens there's three approaches you can take the easiest is to put a knob of ball bearing grease or yellow lithium grease on the tip of the spindle size of a pea. Secondly you can take the shim thrust bearing out from the top by removing the bronze side bearings sleeves make sure you rotate these when putting back and flip the thrust bearing over but you need to polish it to a glass finish first this will wear down quicker and probably cause a hole but you should get many years use it's kept oil or greased. Best approaches to put a motorbike valve lifter titanium shim these come in different sizes but still needs to be ground down and polished on one side you don't want any thicker than two and a half millimetres ideally 2 millimeters is what it is. But the grease is the easiest and will be effective you have to lift the bearing off the bottom if you measure the inner platter to the suspension plinth then putting in the grease you should know after settling down it will be high at first if it's riding above it's friction point you put too much grease in you're gonna find it hard to pull out and you're probably need to use some isoproponel to dilute it so be careful how much you put in usually a large pea size is about right. The original thrust bearing shim is only steel. It has a plastic shim and a cork shim as well for dampening. I wouldn't use anything harder than titanium the spindle is only stainless steel can be ground and polished if ring of wear but just make sure you use a knob of grease and you won't get any wear, oil on the sides I like using 70 w 90 manual gearbox oil GL4 suitable for yellow metals or machinist oil.

@audibleeleganceinc 2 ай бұрын

As for the bearing, I completely disagree. Once a bearing is worn that's it. Sure lubrication might help but it is out of spec and that's it. Then, when you look at what you suggest, which actually might be very good, do you think the average buyer is going to do this? Finally, add onto it the completely absurd high prices now being asked for turntable and what you have is a poor value. Most people peddling used Thorens are thrift shop buyers looking to turn a quick buck on the unwary. As for tuning, the Thorens can be tuned, much like a Linn turntable so that it's bounce is completely vertical when dealing with vibrations. Does anyone teach this? Of course not. So, if Linn turntables are "fussy", then the typical Thorens turntable is trashed. At one point, they used the exact same springs and the exact same grommets. Later on, they went to a "fake" suspension with bent pieces of metal. Notwithstanding how I have responded, I do thank you for your comments and ideas. I am sure someone will give it a go.

@richardelliott8352 2 ай бұрын

one is tuning the resonant frequency of the suspended mass, in an effort to keep spurious room noise energy from linking up in frequencies that might interact with any generated energy from the cartridge. I would hesitate to use machines oil for lubrication , for although it does lubricate, it is primarily designed to remove heat, not friction. my brass table bearing uses 30 weight synthetic, with an oil change every five years. I can only easily get car oil, a factory approved substitute, so I change once a year, because additives spoil to ineffective after a year.

@jeffbrooke4892 2 ай бұрын

Sounds like the moral of the story is to never buy a used Thorens table. Can you replace the bearings?

@audibleeleganceinc 2 ай бұрын

The moral of the story is to check all turntable bearings. At least with Thorens you can do that and given they were very popular in the 70s and 80s and are fetching very high prices, they are game. You can not check the bearings on any direct drive table which is why I won't touch them.

@keithkohley9855 2 ай бұрын

I have cleaned and restored the AR XA /XB, a couple of Rek O Kut’s, etc., but I only consider them as a cool industrial art display piece rather than being functional. I rely on a reasonably updated LP12 for the actual information retrieval and musical experience.

@audibleeleganceinc 2 ай бұрын

Restoring the original AR turntable is a labor of love and respect. I have done it. So, no knocks on the table as it was well ahead of its time. So, kudos for your efforts. Thank you for taking the time to comment. Most appreciated.

@JeffHopkins76 2 ай бұрын

very interesting Lou and you didn't even get into the tonearm bearings.

@audibleeleganceinc 2 ай бұрын

I have to save something for another video! I will show some testing jigs that I have made.

@tonyjedioftheforest1364 2 ай бұрын

Yes very interesting potted history video. As you already know Linn makes outstanding bearings but that level of engineering is expensive. Rega on the other hand has inexpensive bearings that are very easy to replace and both companies replacements are readily available. I personally own and love both but in my opinion Linn wins hands down on sound quality. Other great reliable British brands to look out for are Systemdek and Revolver similar to Linn and Rega respectively and used prices are far lower with nearly the same level of performance.

@audibleeleganceinc 2 ай бұрын

@@tonyjedioftheforest1364 Yes, there is definitely a quality difference in bearings. I keep a Linn one handy to show people. Equally important, however, is the thrust plate and that is where many make mistakes using a softer material than the bearing itself.

@audibleeleganceinc 2 ай бұрын

@@tonyjedioftheforest1364 Equally important, and nearly always overlooked, is the upper sleeve that holds the bearing upright. I often see brass being used, many times without oil, against a steel type bearing. If the platter (and inner platter) are properly balanced and lubricated, I don't see an issue for quite some time. However, that's not always the case and many platters are not carefully balanced. I have often wondered if there is some wobble (however minor) that contributes to bearing wear or inconsistent performance. Obviously, this is long term. The fact that the bearing is vertical rather than horizontal likely helps whereas with a vehicle, it's a quick disaster.

@keithkohley9855 2 ай бұрын

With all of the good, used Linn Cirkus and black liner bearings & matching inner platters circulating on the market for sale, I wonder if anyone has attempted to fit one to the Thorens?