If you enjoyed this video, please consider supporting the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Taitset For detailed information on the current Melbourne fleet, have a look here: vicsig.net/suburban/?page=suburban As mentioned in the video, there are several sub-types of car I didn't mention for the sake of simplicity - there's one example I expect people will ask about: There was a type of Tait car called a G car - these were functionally a trailer, but were fitted with a secondary lighting system powered by gas, which allowed them to be used as locomotive hauled cars on country trains during holiday periods, which were historically busier for the country lines than the suburbs. When in suburban use, the G cars were usually the second trailer in the Unit, so a typical 7 car set was actually M-T-T-M-G-T-M. There is a G car preserved in operational condition, 98G at the Mornington Tourist Railway, where it operates in a consist of country cars, usually hauled by steam loco K163.

We’re all here for the nerdy content 🎉

The part with "lost their partners...at the hands pf arsonists" made me more sad than it should have.

I don't live in Melbourne. I don't plan on visiting. I don't even live close enough to consider doing so. But yet for some reason... I'm obsessed with your videos!

the comeng noises are iconic (and close to home, as a craigieburner)

Another reason to use 3 car sets for the Alamein Shuttle is because there is no room for a safe path next to the Camberwell siding, which is needed for drivers to change ends on a pair of 3 car sets.

I reckon I’ve seen that same pigeon at Newport waiting for 726M to show up 😜 Like others have said, this level of detailed and well presented nerdery is what KZfaq needs more of! The animations and graphics of the trains in this video is pure class👌(Particularly the X’trap wiring diagram 😂) Looking forward to the Patreon only on how you made this video!

"Hey mum, I think the next train is gonna be that flat faced one with the bumpy carriages" I remember when we got to the hallam road level crossing, I would also always pray it would be the "Bombardier". I didn't know they were called Vlocity's as a kid.

I subscribed at around the 13:10 mark, and I would like to formally request the delivery of a blueberry muffin. I don't even like blueberry, but why not.

The sound of the Xtraps and Comengs are so iconic!

I tell ya, man, you've got the most charismatic, humourous, and clear delivery of anybody making railway content (not even specific to Victoria / Australia - just *anywhere*). Top stuff, as always.

There is something cathartic about riding in the emus.

Sydney sider here, great video! Been here for a while, I never knew I would be so interested in a rail system outside of ours. Hope a Sydney - Melbourne High speed rail eventually gets built!

Fun fact in Sydney. We’re still ordering 4 and 6 car sets for the New Intercity Fleet (D Sets). Will be fun to see them form 10 car sets, as seeing the end of the train on a curve is quite pleasing.

This kind of content is exactly my thing, thanks Martin! I think I really started to become aware of the subtle differences when I was about 8, so 1979-80. Those days, exactly as you said, I'd be on the platform, trying to guess what coloured train would come along. It was always fun sitting in the motor cars, particularly on the Taits, hence my practice on Steamrail Tait runs. It wasn't till the Hitachis that there was a decent sized window into the guard's cab, with the chance of looking forward, usually at the crack left by the lowered blind! And, being the nerd, I may have had a good memory for numbers and a desire to 'collect them all'! A question which could solve a mystery; in the early 90s, when I went to work by train, I'd occasionally ride a Comeng M car, which had quite different traction motor sounds. I likened it to a stepping-up sci-fi 'whoop', and never learned what they were. And, being the new adult in the workforce, I was too distracted to remember the numbers of the Comeng spaceships! Love the graphics and Alexander's models. I did giggle at the X'Trap 'wiring diagram', someone needs to unloop the looped cable otherwise it could kink and all the electricity would build up then blast out when the cable is straightened out! Thanks so much for this vid, too.

I have no idea why I’m this interested in Melbourne’s railways, I’m from near Birmingham in England but I’ve been watching you for years and too see content this nerdy just makes me happy :)

I swear I have slept to one of Martin's videos. His voice is so relaxing to listen to!

As a train enthusiast who used to live in Melbourne and now spends her days logging all the Melbourne train sets I see on KZfaq into spreadsheets, I really appreciated the extra explanations. Makes me want to go back and ride in an M car :-)

I like how the electrical engineer included a cute little loop on the X-trap power distribution cables. 😉

Here in Adelaide the only train with a trailer carriage is the 4000 Class. The 3000 Class are railcars (like the Sprinter) and I believe the 3100 Class is a 2 carriage DMU.

eyyyyyyy new taitset video out gotta watch instead of studying for my math test

another banger, thanks Taitset. i've been travelling on Melbourne Metropolitan trains my whole life and your videos answer everything I have ever wondered about why our trains are like that. I used to travel on the Alamein line for school and often ended up on 3 car sets if I traveled off of peak. I missed the train a few times because I was waiting and the wrong end of the platform at Riversdale and didn't make it to the other end in time! I also experienced the same platform changeover at Camberwell a lot, it's definitely convenient

To provide a NZ example. Auckland operates 3 car sets which operate either together as a six car train or separately. The 3 cars are arranged as: M-T-M in this practice... but one of the two motor cars has a pantograph and the other doesn’t. The middle trailer is where the wheelchair space is and it is also lower floor for direct level boarding. In the future we'll be running 9-car trains made up of three units. Wellington conversely uses trains that are 2-cars. M-D in Melbourne parlance. The D cars having a lower floor height for accessibility. These are either operated separately or arranged into 4-6-8 car trains.

Very interesting. I now know how varied the number of carriages for a service could be in the past.

​​I always love watching your videos, the info is always interesting, the scripts are written well, and you sound actually enthusiastic. I definitely learnt some interesting things from this video! keep up the fantastic work mate.

Thanks for letting me know what drove me insane with its buzzing noise on the Comeng trains lol. I always pick the M car at the very end of the train because its doors open right in front of the staircase exiting my home station.

A well-timed upload, seeing as I was just in Melbourne. Regarding the driving trailer in the middle of the Tait EMU, I thought that was confusing, especially after seeing the preserved set on the Sunbury Line last weekend. My favourite Melbourne EMU is easily the Comeng. That's because I generally prefer older trains to new ones, and the Comeng's traction motor sound is great. I guess the one thing I don't like or understand about these units is the fact that you have to pull the doors open rather than pressing a button. In any case, by favourite Comeng coach is 352M, and my second favourite Melbourne EMU is the refurbished Harris.

As a spark driver you did well explaining them all,well done.

Breathed a sigh of relief at 10:44 when you mentioned 3 car sets on Alamein. I think you pitch your audience just fine in terms of nerdiness!

I always loved the sound of the compressor in the Tait.

Ok, so, it was the sound of a transformer that tortured me all those years. Now I know to stick to T cars on those lines!

Thanks! I used to ride the red rattlers back in the day (Sandringham line). Now I'm sitting in Dandenong, watching this and the HCMTs pass while I wait for a sensible train (purple and noisy)

The middle driver cabins are sometimes used. As a place for off duty drivers to ride in

HCMT naming reminds me of (old) German passenger trailer naming, which look like Dpbmz and such.

That high pitch sound hurts my head but I worked out it was only in the middle cars so just tried to use the T cars

Great video!! One thing to mention at Camberwell is in some cases off peak that platform 2 is a dedicated alamein detraining platform. All down trains use the points and use platform 3 so it makes it easier to interchange to alamein I suppose rather than having to cross the bridge. Naturally its a completely different arrangement during peak hour with all lines going to the city and many trains speeding through camberwell! Open to correction ofc

Fantastic video!! Really really informative, and I loved every moment of it! Was there any specific reason the HCMTs were ordered as 7-car sets, rather than 6-car sets for interoperability with all the other rollingstock? (The odd number of cars feels weird for my Sydney brain lol.) I assume Metro just really wanted the additional capacity of a 7th carriage?

An interesting thing I read in Alex Wardrop's book comparing the two suburban systems is that Melbourne's Tait sets would be unable to operate in Sydney due to their lower powered motors and worse power-to-weight ratio (ignoring the difference in track gauge). Sydney originally adopted only two motors (instead of the usual four) in each powered car for reasons of economy, but these motors were so powerful the trains could climb the 1-in-30 grades found in the Sydney underground system with ease. Melbourne's Tait sets would not have been able to accelerate enough to get into full series motoring to cross the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

Living on the Craigieburn line, I'll be glad to eventually see the Comeng trains replaced with modern ones like others on the network.

amazing video, but kinda hoped for more detail on the HCMT internal layout, i still haven't figured out how to measure where to stand on the platform to get on with my heavy bike comfortably - is it the fire door cars? or the inverse of the fire door cars?

Two days ago I went on a red rattler a.k.a. Tait set I took lots of pictures and videos.

Actually so helpful. That high pitched whine in the Comeng trains (our exclusive train on the Craigieburn Line) can definitely get really, really annoying and piercing, especially for a Craigieburn to Flinders St trip.

5:58 I hope the passengers are okay after those inversions

Speaking of fun train noises, when I was living in Yokohama I used to ride the Keikyu Line and the sound of the N1000 Series when they accelerate is really nice. They're nicknamed "Do-re-mi-fa Inverters." Worth checking out. I think they retired them a couple of years ago though.

My great grandfather would be incredibly proud of how far railway technology has come. After serving in World War 2 he returned to Melbourne and worked in the electrical substations for the railways. He would be absolutely amazed by the advancements that have been made, and the impact his work has had on the industry. His contributions to the railway system have paved the way for the modern and efficient transportation we enjoy today.

Greetings from 508M where I am gently having my fillings vibrated out by the air compressor.

Damn I have never noticed the differences on the bogie bottoms before in such detail.

RIP the 4D. And RIP the dream to have unified fleets between Sydney and Melbourne. How good would that have been? Sydney's train layouts are really advanced by world standards, with seating capacity of two Airbus A380 planes each. Imagine if the T-set Tangara was followed by the M-set Millenium and the A and B-set Waratah series 1 and 2. The Waratah in particular has a kicker of an engine in it, and really takes off from the station. And SO incredibly smooth on the suspension. Plus when the train is empty, it's so quiet you can hear a quiet voice from the opposite end of the saloon. Plus there's none of that gimmicky "tucking in" around the curved doors. Some of the Melbourne sets do that, and some of them don't. What gives? Surely the kinetic envelope and loading gauge weren't different when the 1990s or 2000s ordered new trains?

My local area in the UK, on the Snow Hill Lines near Birmingham, has an interesting make-up of trains. Usually it's like this: TOC (train operating company): West Midlands Railway Class: 172 DMU, of the Turbostar family. Introduced in 2010/11 to replace the Class 150 DMUs built back in the 80s. There are four sub-classes: 172/0: 2 coaches, non-gangway ends, formerly with London Overground. 8 built 172/1: 2 coaches, non-gangway ends, formerly with Chiltern Railways. Pretty much the same as the 172/0s. 4 built. 172/2: 2 coaches, gangway ends. Have always been in the Birmingham area with London Midland and stayed as it became West Midlands Railway. 12 built. 172/3: 3 coaches, gangway ends, same history as with the 172/2s. 15 built. So on the Snow Hill Lines we get trains of two, three, four, five or six coaches, and now that the 172/0s and 172/1s have been cascaded to WMR, there's all manner of possible combinations. Note: the six coach trains are only made using two 3-car sets rather than 3 two-car sets. Thing is, if your train is made up of a 172/2 and or a 172/3 unit together you can walk between the individual trains thanks to the gangway ends, but you can't do that if you have a 172/0 or a 172/1. As a result, putting say a 172/1 and a 172/3 together creates a bit of an odd look, and you can't walk between the trains! As for the classifications of the individual coaches, they use a lot of letters! DMOS: Drivers's cab, Motor car, Open saloon, Standard class MOS: Motor car, Open saloon, Standard class DMSOLW: Drivers's cab, Motor car, Open saloon, Standard class, Lavatory, Wheelchair accommodation They have a great sound as well; here's a clip from way back in 2012 of a pair of units (a 172/2 and a 172/3) leaving Stourbridge Junction: www.yotubue.com/watch=JecAbHc6HAU And for comparison in looks, here's an ex-Chiltern Railways 172/1 leaving Worcester Foregate Street in 2021: www.youtube.com/watch=XKC7TAcudSs We used to get Class 170 Turbostar units as well (also with various sub-classes), they looked like the 172/0/1s and usually worked the Bromsgrove line though to Birmingham New Street, and sometimes a 170 would be coupled up to a Class 153 Sprinter, a single car train! A very strange formation! Nowadays, they've been replaced by the Class 196. Another word I've heard used for a consist, though I think it might only apply to steam trains nowadays, is rake.

Another factor in train consists is defective motors. There is a certain percentage of powered carriages versus trailers required to get up hills. With the MTM-MTM set up a driver can 'cut-out' defective motors and the train can stay in service because there are still three powered carriages to haul three non-powered carriages. With the MTTM-TTM set up of the 'read and blue' trains if defective motors had to be cut out then there would be only two powered carriages hauling five non-powered carriages. Defective motors is a common thing, although strictly speaking it is often not actually the motors that are dodgy, but a fault somewhere in the control system. Either way it means those motors can't be used. Trains could and would stay in service for 3-4 weeks with dodgy motors cut-out until they get around to fixing them. Drivers don't like trains with motors cut out because, obviously, they are slower.

I actually HATE that layout for wheelchair passengers having to park themselves next to the driver - in my case I've also got noise sensitivities, so train horns are a big no no, hence, if I were to catch a train, I'd move myself to the other M car and park myself more in the middle, well away from the lead car.

Great video, it's a pity sparks don't go to Warragul any more, I use to live in Bunyip and catch the early morning train to Pakenham . Sometimes I would catch the train to Warragul and the driver would open it right up , Hitachi's sounded awesome flat out between Drouin and Warragul and it's something we'll never experience again.

Another well crafted video, Martin. The various characteristics of Melbourne's trains are well explained for the novice enthusiast and general enquirer and I really found it difficult to detect any significant error. Nice to see the coverage of 3 car Comeng sets on Jordanville bank (just down the road from me). Loved the clip of the model double ended Tait on Alex's garden railway. Keep up the good work.🙂🙂🙂

All the Metro trains on my line are 7 carriages. Great presentation.

Great video! This is exactly the type of nerdery I want and expect from this channel, so please keep it coming. It does bother me that no clear distinction is made between different "classes"/"generations" (realising as I write this that I don't even know what the proper terminology here is) of suburban train in the Victorian numbering scheme. I really feel like you should be able to tell from a unit's serial number whether it's, say, a Comeng or a Siemens without having to know the range of numbers for each type of rolling stock. Then again, keeping track of rolling stock type designations is probably at least as esoteric as being able to tell them apart visually, so this is probably just one of those things (like signalling systems) where the system you learn first is the one that makes sense to you and everything else seems insane.

I was in Brisbane recently and I noticed the wheelchair boardings are different for the NGRs and the other rollingstock due to the use of both guards and station staff.

Great video! The explanation of noises in carriages was interesting, but didn't cover the unique sound of the HCMTs. When first moving off they have a distinctive traction motor sound, then after a few seconds it dramatically changes to a higher pitch- almost like a car changing down gears for more acceleration. I'm curious what this actually is as I'm sure electric trains don't have gears.

Love these videos especially when I see the old Red Rattalers ❤

It seems like its a global trend to simplify and set-ify EMU trains for the sake of operating efficiency. Seoul's first ever subway trains were originally designed to have 6 cars per set, and would double to 12 cars in peak hours. However, this never happened as, like you mentioned, its practically a waste of time and resources trying to couple and decouple sets. Hence the trains were just lengthened to 10 cars, and future models of the metro never had any center gangway doors on the cabs.

I had no idea of any this, found it fascinating, you do such great work. Thank you.

Surprised about the 4 pantographs up on a single train. It is extremely rare in Switzerland unless the train is powered by locomotives, and then there are speed restrictions depending on the distance and number of pantographs, as they can damage the catenary and anyway the current can be collected by a single panto and delivered to each motor. And even without the potential damage, 4 pantographs are going to cause a lot more wear and tear on the copper. Also, does Victoria use UIC numbering on the sides of the trains? Makes the identification of trains so much easier

Fantastic nerdy info. I was always fascinated will the front door on the Hitachi driver's cabins and wondered if they were ever used. I do have to ask; Are the Comeng motors the last to use DC motors and are the latter ones 3 phase running off inverters, and will that mean that one day, they will finally run AC on the overhead supply?

This is excellent, and if at some point you'd like to do a similar video on Sydney's rolling stock I'd love that! Edit: A more in depth video on Sydney's rolling stock, if depth is possible. And I'd like to hear about the interesting 2 and 3 letter systems on the intercity trains.

Fabulous! Look forward to the next one :)

14:30 I gotta say, that’s an absurd power to carriage ratio for one train, that’s 6/4

Great video 👍, keep it up, one of my favourites to date!

This is the content I thrive for, thanks for putting so much effort into your videos. Love the video ❤

Our level crossing game as kids was to guess which direction the train would come from because they all looked the same 🥲

Very comprehensive 😊👍 Cheers from Perth

Good video as always, although I'm gonna be a pedant and point out that the Tangaras were not the first to use non-control motors. The prefix actually dates back to 1926 with the standard motor cars, as around a dozen entered service without their cabs installed and were used in non divisible sets (e.g. C-T-T-N-N-T-T-C, basically the inverse of a modern waratah). they did install the cabs later in 1928 when funding was available though, and then the N prefix sat un-used until the Tangaras.

Thanks. I always wondered why trains have 6 cars in 3 car combinations...Also, if it is a Comeng train, I always get on the second carriage because I hate the vibrations...and now I know why the second and the 5th does not have any vibrations.

Thanks for that great video 👍

Awesome video, Really well explained.

Great video thanks for sharing.

I think the HCMT car codes seem pretty similar to the MTR system. I recall seeing those on some MTR-operated subway lines in Beijing.

Are the car layouts on tje Millennium and Oscar trains the same as the layout on the Tangara?

Thanks for this nerdy stuff. i’m enjoying it a lot.

Wow, that was super nerdy! I loved it.

Thanks for the vid dude. Great work.

The vibration and noise of the air compressors used to drive me mad, I wish I knew this info when I was going to uni and catching the train.

Hi Martin, love the content. Given its mention in this video, I'd be really interested in knowing more about Melbourne's double decker train experience. I remember riding them back in the day and thinking they were great, but they vanished without a trace.

I think the "Tc" "Mp" is from MTRs' naming scheme. In Beijing, only BJMTR will use "Tc" for trailer with control cab. And "Mp" for Motor with pantograph. Also some pure "M" or "T" cars. I believe MTR does not have "D" in their naming scheme. Also BJMTR will show car number to passengers directly by calling and showing "Tc1" "M2"... outside train, and inside around doors/gangways. If passengers need to call help, they need to say which "TcX" "MpX" they are at. While Beijing subway just name there cars by sequence number. Like 10 006 1, 10 is for line number, 006 is train number, 1 is the car number.

I'lll keep in mind to sit in the 5th car if I want to have a nap on the train, away from motor noise and the horn!

Another fantastic video Martin!

Loving the nerdy content and looking forward to more. 🙂

The Comeng sounds remind me so much of my childhood on the Class 455. Those sets often used old Southern Railway equipment underneath and the DC motors sounded awesome. Sadly they've been either withdrawn or re-tractioned with new euipment (that exploded a couple of times). I hope the Comeng sets have a similar sort of "warm smell" from DC traction too. Also on the wheelchair note, I would love to hear about wheelchair access. I'm currently putting together a series of articles about level boarding in the UK and would love to know about how it's done overseas.

Great video!

Great video! Very clearly explained 👍

Another great video and I am definitely always here for the nerdy stuff you put out! If the HCMT car designations are a headache to you, check out some of the codes for passenger coaches (or goods wagons) in Europe according to the UIC. They are insanely specific!

love your hard work ❤❤

Ha ha, now I have to add noise levels to my considerations when choosing a carriage.

I wonder what the X'trap 2's are gonna use? maybe the classic MTMMTM or DMMMMD, who know?

I remember catching 3 car Alamein trains from Flinders Street from time to time and they had a specific name for them that for the life of me I can't remember...

Ahoy! The fire door part was interesting for me. Are the fire doors only on earlier sets of HCMT’s? Most ones I ride are fully walk through but I recall a few in the early days of their rollout having these doors throughout the train. I actually thought they were quite odd!

I was always confused when only three cars pulled up to the platform. I felt like walking up to the cab to ask the driver if they've forgotten anything but was too awkward to ask.

Wish I knew this a month ago, my partner has hearing issues and the lack of hearing loops is criminal.

Another great video Martin - really well explained plus enjoyed the Sydney comparison too! I know you live in Melbourne but next trip to Sydney a similar video would be great including V sets, the new NIFs and Metro trains could be included - thanks again TD 👍✅😁

It was really fun

Amazing video

Superb 😊