Thank you, glad it made sense for you.

Thank you, glad you found it useful.

Glad it was helpful! Somebody may have mistaken me for a "teacher" at some point...

Thanks! 👍

I believe that is the case, though as they make the laws I suppose there is no technical barrier to them bringing in a change mid way through a financial year. In that case there might be a year where you can buy some weeks of Class 2 and some of Class 3. I don't expect them to remove the right to pay these for years that have already passed...so for instance if you were an examiner in 2018 and didn't pay enough during that year to qualify you could contact HMRC and pay the Class 2 right up to 2024. Being an examiner is quite a unique class in that you would have already been taxed the appropriate income tax and so should have no problem qualifying to pay Class 2 retrospectively.

You may be able to look at the last few years and if any of those are not "paid" you can ask to pay the voluntary contribution.

Yes. There is a group who won't have sufficient time between 2016 and when they do retire to build up to the full state pension but for many others there will be that opportunity. For those in occupations that were not opted out prior to 2016 it is/was possible for them to end up with a state pension that is more than the current maximum state pension.

The COPE is paid by your "other" pension, so if you are a teacher the TPS includes at least this amount and is why your 39 pre-2016 years did not lead to the maximum new state pension when it was introduced. You have until you reach 66 to add in however many years it says you need...so yes, you can make up the shortfall...AND will have the amount in your other pension.

Yes, trouble is that it's a full year of the basic state pension and not the additional state pension (it went through several name changes, including 'secondary pension'). Those who were not contracted out had to pay for both, hence a higher NI rate. Teachers were contracted out which meant that part of their occupational scheme had to cover the additional state pension. So whilst your state pension checker shows it as a 'full' year when they came to work out what that was worth when the change happened in 2016 you would have been given a lower starting amount compared to someone who did a 'full' year but who was not contracted out.

Frustrating to work for something, be promised you'll be paid and then find out they can change the rules and pay you less. However we don't get a better deal by asking others to take less for their work - nor cut what we said we would pay them half way through the contract...can you imagine the conversation I'd have with a contractor if I told them in the last week I'd changed my mind and was only going to pay them 80% of what we'd agreed on when they started the job?

Not sure how you would end up with the lowest state pension thought...that doesn't sound right. The old state pension was based on 30 years of NI contributions, surely you have that and more from before 2016...that being the case you could end up with more than the current maximum state pension of £179.60 a week. There are groups who got caught in the transfer from old to new state pensions where because they were 'contracted out' before 2016 got a reduced transfer value to the new state pension and not enough time to get the extra years in before they reached their state pension age (for you either 65 or 60). However, such reductions are down to the Government's agreement with the provider of the other pension scheme they were in before 2016 that their other pension would pay the difference (or indeed more).

Same here, its disgusting.

​@@eileenpritchard9154What is the "same here" that disgusts you so?

No, if you do not work a sufficient number of years, you may not get a pension at all now or you may get a reduced one. Are you complaining that some people are entitled to receive benefits despite having contributed little?

To be fair, you really didn't have much choice back then. The only way you could have avoided the "contracting out" would have been to opt out of the civil service pension as well and set up a private pension scheme. That would have helped you get towards the full State Pension, but almost certainly, by all accounts, a much - much - poorer private pension than the one you will get from the civil service. That and you would have paid a higher rate of National Insurance for those 20 years. Given that you are now 60, you still have 7 more years where you can add to the State Pension and that is likely to make up for the 20 you were in the civil service and help you get closer to the full State Pension.

The 35 'years' reference isn't relevant to those of us who worked before 2016. The 35 year element is directed at those who will work entirely within the new state pension time frame, i.e. since 2016. Those who worked prior to 2016 had their 'years' converted to an amount of pension. If you were contracted out then each actual 'year' you worked came to a lower amount than for someone who paid the full national insurance rate. That means that the 30 years of contracted out contributions that you give as an example could have been converted to a figure that would be the same as someone who worked for 20 years but wasn't contracted out. The point about the maximum of 35 years is not the maximum number of years you pay. If you were to work from 18 to 65 then you would pay NI for each of those 47 years. The maximum refers to how many count towards working out your pension entitlement as each year counts as 1/35th of the state pension amount. Once you have paid 35 years then you reach the maximum amount of state pension. (Just bear in mind that this starts from 2016 at which point your national insurance record was given a starting figure and the number of years worked up to that point was ignored)

Thank you

Yes, that's me. Following the abrupt removal of those forums I started posting on sites that hopefully will last a bit longer...and my own blog at dfountain.co.uk

@@dfountain Thought so, appreciate your videos, will take a look at your blog too...

So long as you started before 2007 then your NPA60 pension will be triggered on your 60th birthday if you are not in the TPS at that time. You still have to apply for it but it will be backdated to your 60th. You will be subject to the rules on abatement, but as you are working part time that isn't likely to be a major issue.

I am currently 64 so not yet a SPA

Not sure about this either.

There are normally two figures on the state pension checker site. One is the forecast and yours is showing the *maximum* amount which is £179.60. There is often another that shows how much you have currently achieved and how many more years you need to contribute to get to the forecasted maximum. Each year currently adds about £4 to the state pension but once it reaches that maximum amount it can go no higher. The time you opted out of the TP means you would have paid *full* National Insurance in those years. Those teachers in the TP between 1978 and 2016 paid a lower rate of National Insurance and so, when the new state pension scheme was introduced, had a lower state pension credit than those who were not in the TP. This means, because you were opted out of the TP from 2008 to 2016 that for those 8 years you will have built up a higher amount of state pension credit than a teacher who was in the TP. The difference in National Insurance payments between those who were in the TP and those who were not was ended in April 2016 (this was when the whole contracted-out of the state pension arrangements were ended for everyone, not just teachers), so you since April 2016 you have have been adding *full* years to your state pension total.

@@dfountain Thank you so much for clarifying David. By the year 2039 I wouldve maxed out my state pension and would be aged 56. I think I will take my teachers pension early at 55, and then take my state pension at age 68.

Ah, now that could be a bit more complicated in regard to taking the TP early. Whilst the pre-2007 pension has the earliest possible age of 55 written in to the scheme and should therefore remain possible to take it at 55 the other two schemes, the Final Salary 60ths (post 2007) scheme and the Career Average scheme, have reference to the 'minimum pension age' and that is subject to change. The Government has indicated that it will track 10 years behind the state pension age. The plan is for the state pension age to rise to 57 in 2028 and so, by the time you get to 2038, I expect you will not be able to take your teacher's pension until 58.

@@dfountain That makes sense, so I have to survive until age 58 until I could take my TP early, then 10 years later my state pension will kick in. By the time I have reached 68 I shouldve also recouped on TP pay in, so the trajectory is looking ok :)

The COPE part in the TP is actually "hidden", your TP including this will be paid when you take the TP. It is my understanding that you get this in your TP and that you therefore "started" building towards the NEW State Pension from 2016 at a lower figure (in your case I would assume that to be £71 less) than it would have been had you not been in the TPS). However, there is a very good chance that since 2016 you have been adding to your State Pension figure and may also reach the FULL New State Pension amount by the time you get to 67. This to me seems very much a "have your cake and eat" it scenario.

It is worth seeing how many years you are shoet by and if you can do anything to add extra years of contributions if you want a full State Pension. Worth looking up and calling The Future Pensions Centre to look up your records. You might find it worthwhile to make voluntary Class 3 contributions to pay for the years from sixty to your State Pension Age. They will tell you.

I'm no expert on these but in short; IF you qualify for them then they are a 'free' way to add a year to your State Pension figure. So if you claimed them for the year 2020-21 then you would add £5 to your state pension amount, in just the same way that working for a year and paying enough National Insurance or voluntarily paying for a year would add to your figure. www.gov.uk/national-insurance-credits/eligibility states that you can apply if: "You’re a family member over 16 but under State Pension age and you’re caring for a child under 12 (usually while the parent or main carer is working). This includes care that you’re providing from a distance because of coronavirus (COVID-19) - for example, by telephone or video call while you’re self-isolating" That seems fairly straight-forward...there is a link by that statement to make the application.

Well worth looking into....

No need to panic there are some simple facts that you need to check. 1) How much do you currently have in the State Pension. Go to www.gov.uk/check-state-pension and see. This will also tell you how many more years you need to contribute in order to reach the MAXIMUM. 2) Check if your part-time job will pay enough for your current year to qualify. If it is paying you something like £7k a year I think that is enough. There is no need to pay any more if this job is covering the amount needed. There's also no need to rush into paying the voluntary contributions this year as you are allowed to "fill gaps" for up to 6 years. Then make a plan. If you need 10 more years and you are 50 now then you will have 17 years in which you can pay them. This means you can MISS several years and still be able to get to the maximum.

This is because the years before 2016 did not give you the equivalent of 27 years in the "new" State Pension. However, the "missing" £13 a week is really just "hidden" inside the teacher's pension that you will be receiving.

I would say that buying years to get the state pension is very good value for money, particularly if you are currently self-employed or working as an examiner or invigilator since you are then allowed to buy the much cheaper class 2 voluntary contributions. The COPE is contained WITHIN the teachers pension so, no it isn't added, it is just already in there.

@@dfountain Thank David. Just wanted to ask - will buying the extra years decrease the COPE I get, or is that fixed permanently?

I believe it is fixed because it is within the TP as just a normal part of the TP.

@@dfountain Thanks David, much obliged

In that case the amount of State Pension you started with in 2016 would be higher than if they had worked solely as a teacher. The calculation at the transition point in 2016 looked at how much each person had contributed to both Basic and Additional State Pension. Teachers, and everyone else who was "contracted out", would have only been adding the Basic amounts whereas someone who had some years paying for both Basic and Additional State Pensions would have been given a higher starting value.

Not an expert on this area but I don't believe so. The Class 2 is for a limited set of workers - primarily the self-employed. As you are employed - supply teachers are generally not classed as 'self-employed' under the IR35 regulations - then your employer should be making class 1 payments anyway. I would imagine that you earn enough from doing 3 days a week to pay sufficient national insurance to qualify for the full year any way. If you work as an invigilator or examiner then you qualify to pay the class 2. There is no rush to pay voluntary payments as you have up to 6 years to pay for any missing years. So you can wait to see if you have made enough to qualify for the year before making that choice.

@@dfountain thank you 😊

The state pension isn't something I am particularly clued up on other than how it relates to the TPS but I have seen that there was a maximum and that, in some circumstances, there was no point filling in missing years from before 2016.

I believe it applies to all of those who were "contacted out" of the additional state pension - so pretty much the entire public sector.

Not sure what you mean, this isn't about "opting out" where a choice has been made to leave an occupational pension scheme but for those whose scheme itself was "contracted out".

@dfountain oh sorry, I was looking for serps 91 opt out information. Hard to find. I thought there was a 3k incentive to those who opted out back then. Thank you for replying, though nobody can confirm this incentive of 3k from government to start private opted out pension. Trying to help disabled person. Seems unfair if they were injured and couldn't pay in as claimed benefits. Government seem to make it as confusing as possible 🤔

Yes, this can be done...there are no rules preventing teachers from paying into the TPS and into a second, private, pension...just so long as they don't go over the annual allowance (as if any on a teacher's salary could do that!)

You are not getting the full "new" state pension? Seems unusual. The 35 year thing is for NI contributions that started after 2016. Contributions made prior to 2016 could have been a mixture of basic and additional depending on what company your worked for and whether you were contracted out (or opted out) of the additional state pension part - in which case the starting amount in 2016 would be lower. If you are now 80 then your state pension age would have been 65 (presuming you are male) and as such you won't have been paying National Insurance for the past 15 years and they won't have added anything to the state pension...but even so that would still give you 50 working years, 42 of which predate the 2016 changes. 30 of those would give you the full BASIC state pension and then the extra would have required contributions to the "additional" state pension.

@@dfountain Thanks for info. Bless You.