Loved that student pilot's attitude! Also good on ATC for finally accomodating the guy!

Hey this was me lol 😂😂I have since got my CSEL and can accept a 5kt tailwind per sop lol

Student pilot handled that beautifully and professionally and it softened the controller up pretty well so he could recover from the frustration. Fantastic exchange which could've easily gone south.

Student said the magic word “unable.” And gave his reason. Controller didn’t like it and definitely showed that he didn’t like it. But student stuck to his word. Well done by the student. He showed PIC. And I totally understand why the controller was frustrated with this but he understood the situation as well once explained.

Practically speaking, a four-knot tailwind on a 10,000 foot runway would be no big deal. However, if you violate the SOP once and get away with it, it becomes tempting to violate it again, possibly with a stronger tailwind. It's called "normalization of deviance" and you don't want to go there. Kudos to the student pilot for refusing the clearance to 9R. I understand the controller's frustration but he did the right thing by updating the ATIS and turning the flow around.

That's hardly mad, rather mildly frustrated.

That ended up kinda fine on both ends. I thought the controller asking “you can’t take a 4 knot tailwind on a 10,000ft runway?” was kinda funny. Didn’t seem mad, I mean the man has a point! Glad it didn’t get crazy heated and they all just worked together. It seemed pleasant at the end honestly.

Knowing and following SOP and clearly communicating. This guy is ready for the airline world.

Student pilot did an amazing job. Great communications everything was crystal clear.

"tower if you can tell me that winds are calm, i can take 9R..."

SOP: don’t land with tailwind Tower: ??? Other guy: your wind readouts are garbage. Tower: true. Sounds like an issue that this particular school is on top of.

Good on the student for sticking to their SOP's even if winds seem relatively benign. Safety in aviation is built on adherence to safe & consistent practices, even though it may sometimes be tempting to just "send it". The controller wasn't really a bad person in this either. He had to get the airliner, who was already inbound for 9, down on the ground before he could switch the traffic flow. Sure he could've been a little "nicer" in the beginning, but it seems tensions cooled down at the end there.

ATC was a fine guy, he even apologised, probably just had a bad day.

That honestly went about as well as it could have. Controller doesn’t know what he doesn’t know, but no GA plane should ever expect to just mosey on over to an airport with airline ops and expect them to bend over backwards for an overly conservative flight school SOP. Good on FIT42 for being amenable to holding, and the controller for not having an attitude about it after the fact.

“Do whatever you wanna do.” “Copy that, landing opposite end of RWY dead straight on with JBLUE. God speed to us and them, we should slide underneath them and tickle their belly, boss sauce.”

I initially thought the tower was going to be passive aggressive the rest of the time but he actually showed quite a bit of class towards the end. Good on The student to set the standard.

Excellent communication by the student and good job sticking to procedures

The only way to know for sure that everything's ok is when you get a crispy SEEYA from the controller.

This was an impressive exchange. The student here was 100% professional, said exactly the right things and did what he was asked. The controller is dealing with a lot and his frustration showed. However, in the end, the situation didn't get worse, it got better and everyone understood each other's perspective in the end. Thanks for sharing this great interaction.

Of course the cirrus calls in without the atis

Wouldn't really even call this ATC being mad. Everyone did the right thing here, ATC realized he can't force the student to go against SOP and then got the JetBlue in before changing the actives. Telling the student to hold while switching the actives was absolutely acceptable, and everyone got in no problem following that. Good work on everyone involved.

The student was perfect, the controller was arrogant and wrong. This is very concerning, especially with a student pilot who might just accept a bad clearance. It's not about a 4 knot tailwind on a long runway, it's about roles, responsibilities and safety. I've been in a few situations like this over the years (rare but it happens) and it's those times the pilot needs to remind the controller that he's not the pilot in command, as this excellent student did. The pilot and controller should work together, but the pilot is responsible for the safe completion of the flight (see FAR 91.3). For example, I was flying from OKC to CLT IFR in an unpressurized single when a line of t-storms built up over Knoxville, so Memphis Center and I discussed it and then I diverted south. On contact with Atlanta Center I was instructed to proceed direct to Knoxville. I replied, "Unable due to weather". The controller came back sarcastically with, "You can't fly to Knoxville?", to which I replied, "Unable due to the line of thunderstorms I just vectored 80 miles south to get around, request direct CLT (I was on a GPS direct clearance)". Another, more mature voice came on and asked "Sir, can you accept direct Spartanburg VOR then direct?" "Yes sir, I can do that!" Again, most controllers are great and many more times I've had great experiences with controllers going out of their way to help, but this arrogant attitude should never be acceptable. It's counter to aviation safety and should be actively discouraged.

the frustration was real on that one, "you can't do a 4 knot tailwind landing on a 10k foot runway?"... I felt that eyeroll from the other side of my monitor, lol

I’m not sure I would consider him mad. I consider this a perfect quick and professional conversation between pilot and ATC. Everyone on both sides should learn from this. That’s why I’m here! Thanks VAS!

Meteorologist here. If the wind readouts Are Bad. The station has to be downgraded to AWOS until it is fixed Or use the $ in the text message

I've been based at MLB for ~30 years. The tower gets a bad rap with the flight training community but they have to put up with a lot. Since the tower went contract, they've been chronically understaffed and the flight training traffic is at its peak. Over the years I've heard some pretty bad exchanges but recently, to their credit, the controllers seem to have become more patient. I've flown thousands of flights out of there, and I've only dealt with a controller having a bad day a handful of times. They're human.

Is Squidward flying FIT36? 😂

ahh, the "ssSSEEYUH" signoff, the ultimate sign of respect between pilot and controller. best possible ending imo for something that couldve turned ugly

Awesome that the student stayed calm, awesome that the controller calmed down. Great example of how important attitude is.

Great video for showing that conext matters. If you had cut off the video after the first exchange i would have a very different opinion of the controller 😅

I love shit like this. Controller was slightly frustrated and I understand his point and the student handled it like a boss. Everyone was able to have a good laugh at the end. Good on everyone

Very pro behaviour from the pilot, and good on ATC for lightening up.

Yup, sounds like Melbourne tower

I love ya Victor but don't jump the shark and get all click baity on us. You could call him annoyed but the all caps MAD AT STUDENT PILOT is a bit of a stretch. 🤣

Forget SOP. Unable to accept 9R, if you have questions, please go read FAR 91.3 first.

Yeah, its silly that the flight school wont allow that, but at the same time, its the school's aircraft, the pilot has to play by those rules.

There was no reason for the controller to be so rude to the student. I’m tired of controllers being so dismissive of GA pilots. They have as much right to the airspace as the air carrier.

This is a really great exchange from both. I'm impressed at how both handled the situation, even if tower was a little scrappy at first. They ultimately worked together. Student was respectfully, strict on their SOP which there's nothing wrong with. On the same note, the SOP seemed a little rigid. A landing would have been easy with the tailwind, which is why tower seemed a little "okay that's dumb"

I love this channel, I’ve lived in the Melbourne area since 2017, was not expecting to see a video on MLB, good on all parties involved, excellent communication and attitudes to handle things appropriately. I’ve seen other videos where this same kind of interaction results in massive fights.

MLB never changes. Student pilots have been taking crap from that tower ever since that tower was built. I've even gotten yelled at by them as an airline pilot lol.

Either that is a very seasoned “student,” or the instructor was running comms. That was cleaner than some of my better days. Luckily the cirrus guy lightened the mood

That student will be a good and safe pilot. That is what matters.

What an interesting conversation!

As a student pilot on a solo, I was once on freq with SLC approach. They cleared me into Bravo airspace on a transition route. I told them unable, per the FARs… again and again I told them. The controller tried to convince me that I was wrong for 5 minutes straight. Very sad that a student pilot knows the rules of their own airspace better than a handful of controllers. And this is coming from a retired controller

"Find another airport..." Very professional

Oh, this pilot is going to be a gem.

KMLB is ridiculous. I got screamed at when I was a student pilot because I did a go around... He told me not to do it again because I "mess up" his sequence. I was absolutely flabbergasted.

Yeah the controller doesn't sound mad at all. At first he sounds shocked, then frustrated, but this never gets to the level of anger. That student has definite PIC energy, though, love it.

That student is a GREAT pilot.

Who was mad? I didn't hear anyone who sounded mad, and I'm a Minnesotan. We're known for being oversensitive to people being "mad" at us. It's not as though the ATC was making excuses. He made a statement about the reliability of their equipment when it comes to wind speed. The pilot acknowledged that it was a problem at this airport. Why create conflict where there is none? There's enough conflict in the world.

I'm also at flight school in FL we all try to keep away from this airport unless needed everyone knows this tower is aggresive on the radio

Great coverage

This would've been more acceptable if FIT wasn't *based out of* Melbourne. How the hell would any controller on shift not know about a major flight school's SOP on their own field? "You can go to another airport"??? Fuck right off with that one.

The controller needs to be suspended. I’ve flown professionally for 24 years and short of a controller in the northeast I’ve never heard a singular request completely change the mood and attitude of a controller. And it went on for minutes. He needs a serious attitude adjustment. There is no place in our business for such a pouty, sarcastic and and confrontational exchange.

Congrats to everybody for working stuff out. Good job.

It took me way too long to realise this is Melbourne, Florida and not Australia and was so irritated by the American tail number xD

Twr controller and Student Pilot interaction is a shining example of those that are controllers Vs those that are pilots.

I actually understand the tower's frustration here. That SOP is super conservative to the point of, in my opinion, being detrimental to the skill building of the student pilots they are training. I could understand a restriction to like 5 knots for a tailwind of any runway under 5,000' or something like that, but not allowing *any* tailwind until they get a Commercial is just asking for problems if they choose not to continue and not having the skills, much less the judgement to understand how to land with a tailwind. There are many airports, especially in hilly/mountain areas (which are a lot of the US despite popular belief) where you *have* to land with a tailwind. Not knowing how to do that from early in your flying career? Unacceptable.

landed with tail wind on large runway (KBFI) as a student a lot. airport won’t allow landing in the other direction as sister airport dictates landing direction (KSEA).

FIT42 was completely professorial the whole time and 3CK did an AWESOME job getting the controller to really loosen back up. This is how it should be done when frustrations arise 🤘🏻

FIT42 can be my wingman anytime. FIT42: "BS* you can be mine!"

Student pilot to ATC: I have a number for you to call.

Everything was great here. Controller didn’t know it was against SOPs and when he was told he accommodated. FYI, landing with “any” tailwind is challenging as you’re going faster than you expect the plane to be at that stage. I’ve done my share and it’s always a bit weird… and I am commercial.

I opened this thinking San Carlos was at it again

The “winds calm” and “I’d love to help you but I had to change operations” was just a tad passive aggressive. The other pilot making fun of it is annoying as well.

This is great banter love it

Unreliable wind readings sounds like a potentially serious safety issue.

MLB atc is always “fun” when it’s busy. Controller was probably in a fast paced mood.

As soon as dude started bitching about equipment I knew it was a Contract Tower.

Interesting school SOP, my school allows student pilots a 5 knot max tail wind, once you get a PPL that increases to a 10 knot tailwind. 99.9% of the time you have a headwind with a crosswind of some kind .. unless you are out at KCHN and then it's just a crapshoot as to what kind of variable wind you get.

The ATC wasn't really mad. He may probably be annoyed, but he didn't blame the student pilot for that because his instructions were in violation of the student's company SOP. It's good that he still gave him different instructions, so the student won't get in trouble with his school or company. Asking the student if he can't take a 4-knot tailwind with a 10,000 runway and telling him "Well, I advise you go to another airport then..." in a mildly annoyed manner are completely unnecessary though.

I fly at Epic Flight Academy and we try to avoid going to Melbourne when we can due to behavior like this. I remember one night we requested a Stop and Go, which we did and it was approved. We stopped for 3 seconds before taking off again and the controller gave us a hard time saying we didn't stop like we were supposed to

Good exchange from the student pilot. However, I think he could've been more clear by saying "I absolutely could handle a 4 knot tailwind landing, but legally I cannot until I'm commercial licensed"

Tower didn't seem "mad" just slightly frustrated, and was pretty good-natured in general

There’s always the “accidental hot mic button“ time out you can give the controller for a minute or two.

1:40 , gotcha! Lol runway Change!

You only need to no one magic word if you think a controller is telling you to do something you dont/cant/wont do ..... "unable".

There’s something surreal about the pilots and atc all signing off like they’re hopping off discord at 1am…

That pilot can fly me and my fam any day of the week.

There are a lot of comments about how well the student handled this, and he did, but this ATC really needs to be talked to about this behavior, especially to students (and this guy was well prepared too!). This demonstrates a worrying disregard for following rules that were established for a reason, when we have had the accident rates we've had in aviation over the past few years.

I instructed for FIT. This controller has always been this way. He's had several heated phone and radio conversations through the years

He doesn’t have to accept a tail wind EVER…

As someone from Melbourne, Australia I have always wondered about the Melbourne USA that always comes up when you search flights

Thats definitely a part 141 student pilot, he’s definitely no part 61 cowboy

but yeah can we get a round of applause for these guys. Frustrating day/delay but got it resolved with no hard feelings.

Typical MLB tower. Been there plenty and they're immediately dismissive and rude towards the training aircraft from the area.

I have been flying out of MLB for 31 years. I have flown into 95 airports in Florida so I think I can say I have a good data base to compare to. I can personally attest that for some reason MLB hires the snarkiest, most short tempered, most unprofessional and sarcastic controllers in the state. Most of the operations are here are training flights. "FIT XXX" are all Florida Institute of Technology students. It is primarily a training field. the new Melbourne Flight Training also has about 30 planes and has added to the training flights in recent years. The controllers know this, and instead of having more patience with student pilots that have little experience and maybe less self confidence than us old guys, they instead berate and belittle them with sarcasm. Totally rude and unprofessional at best and at worse unsafe. Rile a student badly enough and he is going to screw up and kill himself and or someone else. This particular controller is OK....IF you don't make a mistake or question him. He's relatively new. When he first started he was more polite and professional, but he has drank from the ass@#%* Coolaid and joined the MLB ATC Pilot Haters Club. I spoke to the tower manager about his controllers during the open house for the new tower and when I said his controllers were rude and unprofessional, especially to students he said "I know, we're working on it". That was 5 years ago. 'Nuf said. To be fair they aren't all terrible. There is one controller here that is a Gem who I have personally met and he is as pleasant in person as he is on the radio, but I haven't heard his voice in quite a while so maybe he retired. Maybe this controller needs to find another airport to work at if he doesn't like dealing with students, especially ones that follow the rules.

Now that I'm hearing this, I'm glad I never went to Melbourne when I did my training at 'Red Tale' lol. But doing my flight training in New Smyrna Beach was awesome! Best time of my life :D Wish I could go back there.

I’ll ask the question no one else is. Why does the tower have the approach set up with a default tailwind. His policy states that he should have runway set up for a primary headwind when practical

This guy was mad, anyone saying otherwise is just letting the end result get to them.

The title of the video appears excessive. He was surprised but did not hear him GO MAD. Altogether appears fine and professional.

Controllers need a stop pressuring / telling pilots how to fly their airplanes. You're there to provide a service to us flying. Full stop. The vast majority of controllers are not pilots at all so need to stop pretending they know what the fuck they're talking about when it's us up there with our ass on the line flying. Pressuring pilots, especially students, into non-standard decision making is not okay. This controller acknowledged that the weather / wind reporting is crap at his station and often gets better information off the ASOS. So maybe cross-reference against that and do your job in keeping us informed and safe. Keep your personal opinions and commentary to yourself controllers. I'm friends with all the controllers at our local contract tower and fully respect the work they do but seeing this continued pressure on Pilots from people that aren't rated, and shouldn't be inserting their personal opinions, is ridiculous.

Variable at 4. You’re welcome!

DOC has always been snarky, even when he was at Patrick AFB

Sounds like a bunch of buddies having a nice little poker game going on! 😂

Now I want to fly the rest of my life with this alert pilot that has his SOP's down pat!

If the winds were only 4 kts, the Tower could just call the winds variable at 4 while remaining on their active runway. Kudos to the pilot who adhered to his school's rules, no matter how over the top conservative they are. Just 4 kts?

At the end they are all drinking coffee and wathing this video.

Student pilot is a leader. You can hear the confidence. Well done.

I’ve never heard a collective group of people get more riled up and pissy about having to do their jobs more than air traffic controllers.