lol

yep lol the artists I listen to all release their music on bandcamp with high quality drm free audio files.

heh, now I go to Bandcamp for releases from artists I like, or find CDs in thrift stores, I rarely buy "new" CDs mostly to get soundtracks I want because I don't want to stream music period, much like my games, I only want a Local copy so I can play it even if my internet is out or I'm in a bad coverage zone here in BC. Course I'm also trying to build a Windows XP era machine to load with linux, I run around with a old Sony Mavica Floppy-disk Camera, and still have a full sized Bluray drive on my main desktop so maybe I'm weird

I guess you do not consider anime music good music because Sony released some decent anime music in the last 5-7 years. I like many different kinds of music so maybe that is a factor though as well. I bought these songs on disc because I like them so much after listening to them on the internet and in movies and tv shows.

I just go to goodwill and pay 25-50 cents each per cassette or CD that I like.

Indeed, DRM = Dishonest Restrictions Mechanism

At least the current forms of game DRM are not as bad as they used to be, SecuROM and StarForce were by far the worse culprits. Sadly those DRMs left some games unplayable without cracking which is kinda ironic now.

The Denuvo DRM on my legit copy of Prey locked me out once.

I got locked out of Sonic Mania for 2 hours after release thanks to Denuvo. Can't say I was too pleased with that seeing that the Steam store page had no mention of it pre and post release.

At least GOG gets it.

Looks like someone forgot the music...

Well, the music on that CD is "lost in translation" he-he

Its possible that the disk wasn't finalized or closed (as some programs call it) normal audio CD players and CD-roms CAN NOT play an un-finalized or open session disk

@@darinb.3273 Exactly. If a disc isn't "finalized" it essentially becomes a drink coaster.

@@darinb.3273 Or simply bit rot. That disk is 15 years old.

Xylophone T geeks looking out for other geeks. You have to love that

....but apparently the record company said "FUCK THAT!!!" and shipped some versions with the very DRM they tried to stop

I used to save songs from KZfaq via an analogue cable. My poor windows 98 system was not able to handle it too well. Plus it was 2006 so the tracks came out mono...

Internal CD drives can output analogue audio as well, you typically would need to connect a special cable to your sound card to get "CD audio" output.

I got myself a high quality soundcard in 2001 (Terratec EWX 24/96) that was based on the ViA Envy24 chipset. It had SPDIF in- and outputs and could sync to external clocks like the 44.1 kHz from a CD player. I was able to record bit-true copies to harddisk, just like a standalone DAT deck. No SCMS or any other bullshit. It turned out I never really needed it because my Plextor CD drives always handled anything I threw at them 🤷🏼‍♂️

I have a German CD with copy protection on it, but it hasn't stopped me ripping it (the normal way) on Mac or Linux.

Was plenty of programs for Recording Audio via Line In on PC and with all the Filters it could come out better

Povilas Staniulis even if they wanted to put some sort of on-disc encryption in the original format, they would have run into the same problems as DVDs, and probably run the cost of players up considerably. Back then, of course, your average home computer was nowhere near being able to play CDs, let alone rip them.

Autorun is dangerous, stupid and should never have been enabled. What's so difficult about going to the optical drive in My Computer and opening the file(s) you want manually. People managed perfectly OK in DOS and Win3.1 without autorun.

@ Povilas Staniulis: Yup, as soon as you add any program or non-audio content to the audio CD, it becomes a CD-ROM and no redbook audio CD.

All DRM only hurts the people foolish enough to pay money for these products. Pirates don't give a shit. The only digital media I pay for is that which comes DRM-free.

I'm pretty sure XCP is the reason they disabled autorun.

I hope you sued Anastacia for that.

@@Lovuschka It's not the artist's fault, but the record label's

@@beezanteeum Just more people to sue then.

How much do you wanna bet that the recording artists and song writers are hardly getting any of the tax money while the music company executives are getting almost all of it.

I remember buying a pack of what I thought were CDRs only to find out the goddamned things were Audio only. The store wouldn't take them back either because I had opened the package. I still did burn music onto them but what a pain in the ass.

They came in cool colours or faux vinyl though. Still bet the artists and songwriters get nothing from the extra in price.

and the only reason they aren't doing it right now is that they have found ways to get their money from streaming - not because they have learned something....

Playstation 3 literally lets you convert CDs to MP3s.

Nah, they just moved on to digital video

joejoe4games irony

It's amazing that they didn't understand their market or the technology. Sure, no one could look into the future to see exactly how things would go, but hearing their statements from the late 80s/early 90s, these industry 'leaders' sound clueless.

That would be analogous to live music versus recorded music, not getting an exact copy of a restaurant meal for free.

0:43 to see that message better.

The people behind this stupid scheme probably held a knife to her throat when she was writing it down.

KRAFTWERK2K6 They even added blank CD-Rs with the same print as the original CD, encouraging you to create copys for your friends :)

kpanic23 That is _awesome_. The RIAA would have a heart attack.

The Dead Kennedys felt the same way: m.imgur.com/blhnH?r Even though theres no copy protection on analog tapes.

Sounds like an amazing band. I would like to listen to them.

@@300DBenz Ahahahahaha

normal you had no problem ripping to mp3 since this format, though digital is a compressed data loss one.

That’s interesting uxwbill, very informative!

Very interesting Story William. I am glad that Sony got sued over this crap because I am willing to bet that alot of computers back then got screwed up majorly. Reminds me of the old anti-piracy BS that game devs used to prevent copying but it backfired in their faces when users had burner of some kind in their computer causing them not to be able to play their legally bought game.

The reason why Windows 95 and OS/2 era machines had no problem with playing these discs is because back then PC CD drives acted like normal CD players. The drive had to be connected to the sound card in order for the user to listen to CD audio, both in a music player and in games that used redbook audio (Quake, Rainbow Six, etc.). It was with the advent of different kinds of drivers for sound cards that this method of CD playback was subverted, but the cost is that CD drives can no longer act like CD players, so copy protection and rootkits exploited this. I'm not an expert on this but I think this is what was going on.

Fablefire Very interesting! I'd wondered about this!

wish I were half as rich as these lunatics. I'd buy the rights to a metric shit ton of music and start paying the people who ACTUALLY deserve to profit from it. The composers and performers.

But it's true what they said. People are being manipulated. Most people don't really understand the consequenses of their actions.

​@@figaro-dg5c5good

Believe it or not, a worse system is currently on everyones computer and google and your hardware vendor are responsible. It is in many ways more powerful than a rootkit as you cannot remove it as it is hardware.

@@BeefIngotTPM?

Like the person that didn't even own a computer, or in the classic case of suing someone's dead grandmother...

according to record labels, the most expensive object in all of creation is an ipod shuffle with 40gb of songs on it, worth several quadrillion dollars in a court case...

I give up. How many?

Don't make stealing sound like it's an okay thing to do.

How would they even find out

Wow...

Oh my... Did you ever get the CD out?

Collateral damage.

Wonder if the data track was trying to update firmware(i mean when data found in first track it was looking for update code)

There's no such thing on any standalone CD/DVD player. UPDATES haven't started being a thing until BLU RAY@@delresearch5416

Go.exe even more... who the hell ran these anyway? I'd never allow those types of unknown shit to be installed on my PC...

That was exactly the case with My Morning Jacket ironically, they ended up burning copies of Z themselves for free and sent them out to others and even had information on how to bypass the DRM on their website when Z was basically brand new

They probably used some cheap Chinese or Korean made brand like CMC Magnetics.

Time Machine yeah, considering the disc wouldn't play in *anything*, I'm guessing it's just defective.

I've had a few CD-R's I made in the early 2000's go bad, and most of them were budget brands. The old CD-R's that still play fine are the Verbatim Data Life with Blue AZO dye, FujiFilm's made in Japan by Taiyo Yuden, and some Kodak CD-R's with a gold ink. I wish they still made them.

wildbilltexas those budget brands were always made by CMC Magnetics. But it's a general problem with the technology of CD-Rs. They're not made to last. I had a Verbatim recorded 18 years ago, and don't play anymore. Sometimes it had to do with the storage of discs, like humidity, light and other kind of stuff.

I agree. A CD-R can be erased if its left face up in bright sunlight. Most of the cheap CD-R's I bought then were for my car stereo. Most of them worked fine then and I kept them in a CD binder, and some still went bad after 10+ years (Princo, Khypermedia)

AutoRun (AutoPlay) is still there, it's just disabled.

10 YEARS?!

Ok

At op woah cool fwiw that is no joke the same thing I do from having thankfully depite loving or liking sony in general fwiw as a brand and a whole fwiw of the other stuffs but not so much the idea of drm like hindering or even having hidden/not always known to all.. some type of software etc that just puts itself where one does not want it to be.

Oh just so you know for vhs the word Macrovision is something to know for mere amusement even if not for the actual purpose of.. other, reasons for maybe like just preserving history and things as such maybe if possible a dvhs or even wvhs deck for hd upscaled version dubs or else fwiw eg to reg vhs then use a 1986? Or prior deck manufacturing date of deck/vcr for the ability to use as the recording vcr for they firmly or frankly are purportedly said to ignore macrovision.

“YOU DIDN’T UNDERSTAND A TECHNOLOGY YOU HAD NO POWER TO STOP SO I WILL NOT HELP YOU!”

h

GloomyJD I remember a few years ago I didn't know about DVD decrypter, I rent the "Die another day" movie with 007 James Bond. My only option was to rip it by connecting my laptop's USB TV tuner to the standalone DVD player.

Holy shit. If only I knew that back when I still used MD!

I've heard of a method which doesn't require you to open up the deck, which only works on certain decks (both decks I have are able to do this trick, but you only need 1 deck that is able to do the trick in order to carry it out) AND it also allows the names of the tracks to be copied across 3 blank minidiscs are required in order to do this trick first, you use this trick to copy the TOC of the source onto a blank minidisc next, record a second blank disc with silence now you overwrite the TOC of the source minidisc with the TOC of the disc which has the silence on it next record the source minidisc to a blank minidisc then use the trick to restore the original TOC to the source minidisc finally, use the trick to add the TOC of the source minidisc to the copy

Yes, you are right, if you have the equipment, you can just copy it via analogue then copy it to CD, I know it would be maybe one percent less good but then would anyone notice that ?

if you can play back on ur pc or whatever, just record the output from the stereo mix

Well... to match the original audio you need a flat response 22kHz 4th order low-pass DAC and a similar ADC... Oh and a perfect cable to connect the DAC and ADC... (Also you can rip streaming audio from an iPhone to a Mac using the digital Lightning to USB audio to get a bit-perfect copy of the audio that sounds on the iPhone)

Just hold one phone up to another and record.

Actually... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia If you can hide a robust fingerprint in the analog signal, and then have something which runs at a higher privilege level than the OS check for it, such as the firmware for the Intel Management Engine or AMD Platform Security Processor, (which are now built into every x86 CPU and must be running properly signed firmware or the system will keep rebooting like an NES cartridge without a CIC chip), then all it takes to close the analog loophole is making the fingerprint difficult enough to obscure without trashing the audio quality... and yes, ARM has something similar. AMD actually licensed ARM TrustZone to make the AMD PSP.

One of the reasons I rip my DVDs too.

If you're referring to the Red Book standard, the disc can still be under it.

@@passatb6break you can just copy the disc image.

He did say that it's dangerous *unless* if it's controlled in one way or another

i've heard of securom but i didn't know it would go that far

Digital restrictions management.

And then the same people that brought you SecuROM made Denuvo!

Marije Steenbergen And let's not forget how Sony is anti consumer even today. especially on consoles and their phones. consoles are restrictive, you have to pay for a subscription to play online (60$ monthly) and there is no cross play like on other consoles or PCs. they also don't release their exclusives to other systems and the games in their library are 20% more expensive than in other consoles or online games stores. their phones are full of bloatware and it slows the phone down. they are also overly expensive compared to others performance is mediocre but they ask almost 800$ for it.

suckurom

In those old CD-ROM drives when you played a CD it just acted like a normal CD audio player with its own DAC and fed analog audio into a special input on the sound card. In that case the copy protected CDs should have no effect on them.

@ WaybackTECH: You can also thank the RIAA for pushing Creative Technology into removing the Radio recording function of their ZEN MP3 players with built in FM Radios. One particular firmware update then simply removed the FM radio recording feature. That was in already the mid 2000s. >_

I had at least one audio CD from that era that had one of these copy schemes that would not even play in a regular, audio CD player. So there were problems in both directions. I tried that disc on several players and eventually threw it away, having bought it on vacation and being unable to return it.

dandanthetaximan Have you heard of Rockbox? It's custom firmware that mainly lets you play more file formats but does tons of other cool and handy stuff. I run it on my Sansa Fuse+.

I hate them back then. I remember Kazaa was a good program for file sharing. I can download any music that I can’t find since I didn’t get a CD or a cassette back then. Not anymore. Thanks to KZfaq and others for putting all the music on there. I can see music on the KZfaq Music section that you hear music with ads. The problem with KZfaq is copyright troubles. Look what happened to Viacom (aka “V of Doom”), they took them down where they had clips from shows on Nickelodeon, MTV, Showtime and others. WMG also blocks and get copyright strikes from users who doesn’t give a s*** about it, or WB for their “Looney Tunes” content as well as “Tom & Jerry”, the show I used to watched as a kid, and NBC Universal for the Walter Lantz library including “Woody Woodpecker”. I have a few 8mm prints of Woody cartoons in silent form, and it was by Castle Films, except “Pantry Panic”, a silent B&W 8mm version is in the Public Domain, and of course, a couple of AAP 8mm versions of WB cartoons in B&W and I can’t do it, because of copyright problems. In addition to KZfaq, there’s Spotify, and Pandora, and online radio streaming like TuneIn, and iHeartRadio. They got great music on there, and it’s legal free. It’s like they did with fireworks when they were legal in New York State where people can get consumer fireworks before July 4th and New Year’s Eve where people can set them off at night. But they’re still illegal in NYC and in most of California. I’ve seen “Shango066’s” video on restoring his early Panasonic 12” B&W TV from 1962 and it works perfectly after it brought back to life from the surrounding desert. During the finishing touches, I hear fireworks in the background where people were setting off, and it was all over the place. I remember since the 1980’s and 1990’s when I saw it, and as a kid, I was scared by the fireworks where people was using bottle rockets and colored balls and M-80’s.

Awesome, thank you!!!

Techmoan’s version of the “Muppets” are just “Muppet” rejects. I used to watched “The Muppet Show” and any of the “Muppet” movies, it was good, but not much of a fan, except for “Sesame Street” which I’m too old to watch, because of the educational factor. Kermit the Frog is not on any of the Techmoan videos. Techmoan is from the UK, and the “Muppets” are from the UK before they characters ended up in the US since the “Muppet Show” came on in the 1970’s. They were popular in both US and UK. Just like they did with “Benny Hill” when they brought to the US from the UK, that what I’m talking about UK shows imported to the US. That was a long time ago.

@MTN, you think that the Muppets originated in the UK?

@@Okurka. Well it depends on what you count as "The Muppets". Kermit first appeared on Sam & Friends in the US, but that was only a local show, and none of the other Muppets appeared. Then Sesame Street launched. Henson then tried to get a national show for what would become the Muppets but no US TV channel was interested. So he went over to the UK and produced The Muppet Show for ATV (now part of ITV)

They need to copy protect each Muppet.

me3333 they won’t go that far, but I wouldn’t count on getting any ad revenue.

Still online

I think it is basically a mixed-mode data/audio CD with a data track (containing the rootkit part) and normal audio CD tracks after that. Some old games used to use to come in mixed mode CDs for storing both data and in-game music on the same disc.

"Loom" comes to mind. The game data was on track one, while the voices & music were CDDA. So, if playing it in a an audio deck, avoid the first track! :D

That's not the same thing as what RCM's talking about. On a multisession disc the data isn't usually on Track 1 before the audio, it's in a second session after the audio. Some audio CD's used this to add "multimedia" content to audio CDs: a normal CD player would only see the audio tracks in the first session, but a PC would see the data in the second session. FWIW, I checked out my CDS protected copy of Tubular Bells 2003. It has two sessions, with audio on Track 1-17 in the first session, and compressed audio and a player in the second session (track 18). It also has lots of "damaged" sectors mixed in with the audio, and deliberately corrupted data in the second session.

@@povilasstaniulis9484 I have/had a few 90s games like that, with the music as CD audio (in tracks 2 through the end of the disc), and the game data track in Track 1. _Civilization II_ has the game music like that; _The 7th Guest_ mostly has FM synth music, but the intro and ending music is CD audio. And my brother had _Test Drive: Off-Road_ which has several Gravity Kills songs as its soundtrack.

lol it played music in 32K resolution? you seem to be mixing up some stuff there xD

He's probably referring to 32 kHz sampling rate. But at least for the Sony XCP discs, they'd play the audio via either 128 kbps WMA or 132 kbps ATRAC files, both at 44.1 kHz sampling rate.

Whatever rate it played at on that mystical "Player", it certainly sounded like an MP3 at a low bitrate like 32Kbps. It was very poor, almost like they were trying to dissuade me from listening to it on the PC. On a standard CD player it was just fine. Rest assured my punters were not being subjected to low-res audio!

yeah sorry i just ment that i found it funny how you used "32K resolution" to desribe the MP3s quality, but whatever you ment exactly, it would still mean the same: the quality was crap :)

@@vwestlife .. and in 2023 the industry of music is gone.. no more great bands anymore.. no more endless word wide tours or great concerts anymore.. just an endless amount of nobodies and his amateurs songs on internet.. and with the industry of music.. also the Hi-Fi audio equipment industry is gone.. people don't even listen music in stereo anymore........ ironically.. was not because of illegal copies or any real audio equipment ........... hope Steves Jobs rots in his grave with is fuc^&%ing iPod..

You illustrate one of the flaws of any attempt at "copy protecting" digital audio media: if anyone really wants a copy of it, they can do so via recording the analog output, with little or no loss of quality.

Mr Videos & Games there are programs that can crack them but the discs and burners are not common nor with disc drives becoming less common on PCs I don't think they have to worry about it like in the late 90s and early 2ks

The 4K Blu-Ray ripping is a thing. It took a while to get going but the scene is now starting to become mature.

Mr Videos & Games unless you camera-rip the blu-ray movie.

^ Ew, Blu-Ray cam copies. You'd be better off stripping the HDCP and capturing what gets sent through the HDMI cable from a Blu-Ray player. Not sure how easy that is for 4K Blu-Rays but for regular ones it's as trivial as buying a cheap HDMI splitter.

I happen to have two blu-ray drives with modified firmware, one in my desktop PC, the other in an external enclosure, which can both read 4K Blu-ray discs (the modified firmware is required in order for the drives to be able to read the 4K discs, as these drives can't officially read 4K Blu-ray discs) only thing I dont have set up is the software to rip the discs (not even regular Blu-ray or DVD, as I have to be careful, due to something which happened over 8 years ago)

Try using dB power amp CD ripper and use secure rip.

It's not that any programs won't rip them, they're just not seen by my CD/DVD drive or any other drive I've tried, Windows explorer just shows the drive as empty, to be honest there's not enough of them to worry about it, I'd prefer to use EAC to rip them, but I can't fault the MP3s produced from the PS3 and I'm yet to notice any problems with them

All copy protection is counterproductive... especially to the legit customer, just look at all the unskippable anti-piracy tripe that appears the second you stick a DVD in a player, pirated copies don't have it.. the only people it serves to annoy is legit customers who are basically treated as potential criminals

@@waynehickman8317 VLC lets you skip over the ads. It's only the DVD player responsible for doing that.

@@josugambee3701 I was talking about actual DVD players that live under TVs... the majority of people don't watch DVDs on PC

Whether it's actually hooking into a modern system kernel on the other hand, is a different question. The whole reason SafeDisc-protected games won't run on Windows 10 is that Microsoft refused to sign the SafeDisc driver because it was too buggy and insecure, so the Windows 10 kernel won't even try to load it unless you go out of your way to switch your Windows 10 into the mode intended for testing and developing new drivers... which isn't something you can do by accident.

More surprising is how the antivirus software allows them to be installed in the first place...

@@ssokolow to buggy and insecure what a bunch of hypocrites

@@killertigergaming6762 I have to be fair to Microsoft. It's usually that they're hamstrung by bending over backwards to stay compatible with existing software and drivers. This video on the history of the Blue Screen goes into more detail on that. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gc2hfa12qLe1eGQ.html

@@ssokolow Dave's Garage FTW

One of the first mainstream albums to be recorded 100% digitally, I think.

Yeah… pushing everyone to overpriced (and "super limited & very rare") vinyl releases... that even sometimes come with crackles and noises already added into the Lacquer Master during manufacturing and and then getting pressed into the mass produced vinyls... so you get a horribly noisy sounding (and yet clean groove) vinyl-release for 50+ bucks because "HIFI".... only to avoid brickwall-limited and clipping CDs wthout any dynamic range what so ever... The demand for Vinyl has lowered the quality standards into oblivion.

Jac Goudsmit Eh, I use Spotify so I have volume normalization. So the audio isn't very loud, it's tame. I say compressed music has it's benefits (Not a lot of change in volume which leads to a more comfortable listening experience). But when I want to listen to music in an energetic mood, dynamic range is nice. It would be cool if there were two versions of every album, one with a low DR, and one with a high DR.

Sunforged: Normalization is not the same as (dynamic over-) compression. The former is reversible, the latter is not.

Jac Goudsmit ... I know that. I'm saying that since I have loudness normalization I don't have to worry that my eardrums are gonna get blown out.

Jac Goudsmit *And then* I was talking about music that's compressed in the mastering/mixing stage has some benefits such as having a more comfortable listening experience since there's not that many changes in volume.

Do you remember the exact name/type of CD player/drive that you used?

@@LazyJesse The Plextor was a PlexWriter 12/10/32A IDE drive. Don't remember the exact model of the Toshiba and it's packed away in a box somewhere. It was just a regular IDE CD player. Sorry I can't be of more help.

There are ways around that. It's not blank. A good software will be able to create a 1:1 copy while correcting the intentional errors added to the discs. It's a lot like dealing with creating backups of PS1 games.

There are standard strings of lead-in header data on iso compliant data CDs, Usually handled at a very low level in software. Its probably something with this. I've only come across it when messing around with dd and creating .iso files. (dd is an old unix tool for raw data at the lowest level, it can read and write single physical bytes on any sort of disk or file. No safeties, no handholding, but accurate and simple.)

Yes, real musicians aren't greedy bastards like the recording industry asshole of america and don't care so much about the money from sales but about how many people hear their music, whether they buy a CD or copy it.

Anyone that is familiar with how the industry works knows it's the label companies that care because that is how they make money. The statement on the video about labels will stop making music is wrong. It should have said "stop licensing music".

I actually prefer to buy more physical medium from artists that have publicly declared they don't really care about illegal downloads, and don't bitch about loss of money all the time... I don't like the greedy ones... If a band/artist is doing it just for money, the product won't really be worthy or honest. Only if they do it because they love making music, and don't care about success, that is when great things happen.

CoolDudeClem you just aren’t looking hard enough

CoolDudeClem - I thought the same way, until I started to explore Prog Rock. There’s a staggering variety of music in this genre and I have a whole new love for music again. None of this stuff gets airtime, you have to look for it. The charts have progressively worsened over the last 30 years or so. It’s all dreary wailing ‘r’n’b’ (it doesn’t earn that moniker) or hip hop/rap. Kids are forced to like what the record companies want them to like. It’s the record companies that are killing music, not their customers. They can’t or won’t face up to this.

On mainstream radio, sure. But it started going downhill in the 1990s already. Now, if you truly crave diversity in music, check out Bandcamp, or even SoundCloud. There was nothing like that back in the “golden days”.

CoolDudeClem That's only for the mainstream music. look harder on the internet and you can find songs from independed artists and even music made by normal people which still sounds better than whatever these "popular" "artists" which work for media companies can make.

Amen, bro.

you could say it got "lost in translation" from being written to a CD-r

Eh, Japan isn't innocent when it comes to poor attempts at preventing piracy, either. Just ask anyone on KZfaq who tries to upload an Anime clip, only to immediately get hit with a copyright strike from the original producers (e.g. Toei Animation).

@@Yeen125 Or companies outright banning the export of their products. Avex Entertainment famously cracked down on sites like amazon JP or CDJapan about five years ago and if you want to buy anything they're associated with (this famously hit fans of Yuri!!! on ICE hard), you have to go through a proxy shipping service.

sony is a japanese company

@@user-lk2vo8fo2q they have a us subsidiary

@@astral-p1823 what does that have to do with anything?

1980sGamer The future is now!

cool pfp owo

:3 It sure is isn't it?

yus ^w^

the pirates have it easier than the customers

as an old fart my self, I was a teenager during the early days of Napster. I can say I didn't even know about all of this BS, because from the time period of 1999 to 2005 (when this nonsense was in place) who the hell was buying CDs??????

twocvbloke She was very pretty. I always thought she was a dead ringer for a young Stevie Nicks!

Natasha is my age (well, half a year older to be accurate), and I'm old as fuck now. Time is a hell of a bitch.

She was born in 1981. I'm older than her, and I'm not that old.

She's 4 years older than me then...

Last thing I heard about NB, she was skint as no-one bought her CD due to the excessive copy-protection. And yet *still* people say that piracy is NOT a victimless crime.