Cost of Winning the West. Pioneering Photographic Propaganda

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2 жыл бұрын

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Пікірлер: 51

@JohnDrummondPhoto 2 жыл бұрын

I think, Alex, that this book you discussed isn't just about the landscape of the American West, but how the lifestyles of the West and Southwest have changed into something rather unique in this country. You mentioned Americans' love of cars, and car culture is more of a thing the further west you go, for the most part. That's because the land is so vast, and populations so spread out. The populations of Los Angeles and Phoenix owe their size not to density, like New York City and Chicago, but by just spreading out. The west is about sun, and lots of it. Much of it is literally unliveable without air conditioning. So, lots of indoor images in single-floor ranch houses, or poolside. Or, the less affluent (or outright poor and broke) just hanging around in the searing heat because there's often not a lot else to do, especially at night (except Las Vegas and other big cities). The red rock formations of Sedona, Arizona are breathtakingly beautiful. So beautiful, that thousands of people built homes all around them so they can look out their windows at the buttes and mesas every day. Of course, that means the view is largely ruined for everyone else, which I found out when I visited Sedona in 2018. This Spring I have another Arizona photography trip. I'm much less naive about what I'll see this time. Maybe I'll come back with truer, compelling images, even if that means they're not just "pure nature". P.S. "Pearblossom Highway" is one of my favorite Hockneys.

@jimtipton8888 2 жыл бұрын

That was very interesting from the perspective of a person who is a native of Western America. Not doubt man has influenced the western landscape, but the amount of wild land that is still out there is staggering. I've flown around the west quite a bit and the amount of wild land always leaves me in awe. Agree with you on the portraits, they felt disconnected and wouldn't have been my choice. Thanks and have a great day! After thought: He really could have spent some time on the impact of agriculture. That has had one of the largest impacts on the landscape.

@dodahlberg 2 жыл бұрын

I agree with the vastness of the west. I am a native of New Jersey where we are crammed into a tiny state; mostly in the northern NYC metro area. But when I was in my 20s I did a far amount of traveling; eventually spending a couple years in Wisconsin with several long trips through the Midwest, west Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California. I did the American road trip in spirts. For people who haven’t ventured west of the Delaware River… they just have no idea what it’s like to drive for hours and see no one, no artifact of humans except for their car and the road it’s on.

@kalanimoeai584 2 жыл бұрын

@@dodahlberg meh

@christopherjanousek7994 2 жыл бұрын

I appreciate this video and your thoughts on the changing landscapes here. Having lived in the western US most of my life and having traveled pretty extensively throughout it, your assessment of the relatively rapid encroachment, historically speaking, of development is spot on. The western US today is a study in extremes - landscapes range from still as yet pristine wilderness areas (usually only remaining in the mountains) to smog-filled valleys with endless suburban development. There is both the legacy of excessive exploitation here, as well as strong acknowledgement of the need for conservation and sustainability. This is after all where thousands migrated to aggressively mine the land as well as where John Muir's and Ansel Adam's voices for conservation blossomed.

@amateurphotographerassocia5965 2 жыл бұрын

We live in the Capitol of the gold rush, Grass Valley, Ca., where the gold mining is somewhat glorified as a tourist attraction. The drilling of the Earth to remove a yellow mineral, we have 626 miles of tunnels under our community. The trees were clearcut to support the mines, hills were washed away with huge water canons to the point that the San Francisco Bay was filling up by one foot per day. Today what you see is rusting mining equipment left behind but also what you see is Mother Nature taking back her Earth. The strip mines are hard to find because the trees have grown back. It really is quite the contradiction.

@stevenhundley8244 2 жыл бұрын

The last two springs I’ve traveled the west, including Utah, Colorado, Arizona and Nevada. 2020 was very eerie almost apocalyptic. As you said nature comes back fighting. Churches, schools, motels and gas stations not just shuttered but the landscaping abandoned was something to behold. 2021 was different, the closed business’s seemed more permanent. I hope to go back this spring.

@washingtonradio 2 жыл бұрын

If you drive across I-80 in Wyoming, Utah, Nebraska, and Nevada you will see stretches were there is the road and stuff around the road and vistas to either side even today. I remember going to jobsite in New Mexico, the nearest motel was on I-10 in Lordsburg and the jobsite was a good hour on back roads (50 miles/ 80 km) from the motel. The only thing there were some ranch buildings you saw occasionally and fencing to keep the animals off the road. If you do drive across the US allow for at least a month. Driving I-80 for NY to SF with only overnight stops will take 4-5 days. One of the most important aspects of photography to me is documentary. It captures an image at a fixed point in time of what the photographer saw and wanted to record. Many of these images, while important, will rarely be appreciated even for their documentary value. Also, many of these images will never be regarded as 'artistic' even though they often require technical and artistic proficiency to make an impact. To me the people images look like they could have taken anywhere. That might be the point, there now is a relatively homogenous culture across the US and without a specific reference most images of people could be taken anywhere as compared to the 'Wild West' era an image of a person would be different based on their location and background.

@BermJA 2 жыл бұрын

I very much enjoy your photography book reviews and insightful comments. One could argue that the photographers of the 1930’s, during the depression, commissioned by the US government, such as Dorothea Lange, Minor White, and Ansel Adams and their photographs of the West (mostly dynamic landscapes and dramatic portraits), in conjunction with the growth of Kodak, were responsible for the explosive growth of photography as an art form for the common man. Certainly, more so than photojournalism and street photography, both unattainable to most.

@darrenleigh201 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent video -- one of your best (IMHO)! I think your interpretation(s) of the image collection was spot on. Thanks for sharing!

@miguelgiron4947 2 жыл бұрын

As a professional historian of the US and photographer, I must say that your analysis is on point. Really, one of the best videos seriously considering environmental destruction and Native American dispossesion in what is now the American West. Truly one of the best channels out there! (especially among the several film photography channels that take Western Americana at face value for nostalgia)

@louhautdavid6451 2 жыл бұрын

I never thought about early american landscape photographs as propaganda, but your right ! It reminds me your video about David Goldblatt in South Africa. As you say so, you always should look at photographs in their context. Maybe the third part of the book you don't connect with could feed the second one by alternating luxury or recklessness with ugly or devastated landscapes.

@Trafalgar42 2 жыл бұрын

I grew up in the Southwest and it's interesting to see these photos. Even in my life, I was able to see the native landscape destroyed, mostly for homes, with the illusion that there is endless land to expand and an endless supply of water. Another thing I found interesting in the photos is the conspicuous exclusion from the 1800's railroad pictures of Chinese immigrants (perhaps there were but not covered in the video). They did so much to help with the expansion of the railroad (and indeed the West in general). Thanks again for choosing this book and topic!

@4351steve 2 жыл бұрын

I have spent quite a bit of my life in what some call the west or the southwest. My current home is in Flagstaff but the last 5 months has been on the New Mexico/Arizona border on the Navajo Reservation and the area of old Route 66. My first experience as adult on the Colorado Plateau as well as on and around the Navajo Nation was in the 1980’s while I was a Park Ranger with the NPS. I have lived and left the area a couple of times with escapades in West and Central Texas and then back to the Midwest in Missouri and Iowa. As soon as I graduated high school and had some independence I found a TLR and eventually a 35mm SLR to try and figure out what photography was and is. That was the fall of 1970. I am still working at it. I have spent some time photographing people, places, and things. I have enjoyed your take on the “art form - the discipline - the aesthetic - the process.” Photography has always something that I took seriously. Serious enough that I haven’t always had time to focus on it or do the things I want to do with it. The west is a grand place to try to take it seriously. But it isn’t always easy to generate what you want with it. Their is the place and it’s geography and then there are it’s people. Neither are easy to capture, but the place may be the easiest of the two. The people whether Anglo or Native are very independent. And not always easy to get to know or become close enough to capture their true identities. The art and photography of the people of the west requires connecting. And it is telling when those connections are made or not.

@josephstanski5180 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for you great insights - so much appreciated.

@alangardner8596 2 жыл бұрын

I'm Oregon bound in 3 weeks and taking my camera with me of course. It's a family visit but no doubt I'll be hunting for some photos.

@prit04 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for talking about this in the way you have.

@jimwlouavl 2 жыл бұрын

Interesting to hear your view of the American West. Some of the 19th century photographers were there to document expeditions and to sell the area to easterners. There’s a lot of debate about including their work with Romantic painters and Ansel Adams’ photography. One of my personal challenges has been to be inspired by them yet have a much more eastern landscape to work in.

@broken12367 2 жыл бұрын

That’s one on my bucket list too. I’d love to drive across America. It’s a pipe dream really but would be a great adventure. Great content as always Alex

@MichaelLaing71 2 жыл бұрын

A TV series that you might very well enjoy (if you haven't seen it already) is 'The Civil War', first released in the 1990's and inspired by the photographs of Matthew Brady. It must be 25+ years but I can still remember how powerful the photography were, when telling the story of the American civil war and the people who fought in the war.

@vintagephotographer 2 жыл бұрын

Insightful as always. I wonder if the book is actually ALL about people. Landscape as propaganda, landscape as resource, landscape as documentary. Joni Mitchell's Big Yellow Taxi only scratched the surface.

@denisesavage2382 2 жыл бұрын

Interesting reflections . . . I wonder with the people part of the book if it's because the people could be placed anywhere, they are isolated from the context on the whole. The beginning part of the book has set you up for the context and then took it away for the second. Just wondering. For me the people could have been anywhere. There was nothing that clearly stood out as a particular place. Thanks for sharing Alex. Appreciated. As an Australian where we wrestle with the ancient history of our first peoples and the impact of second peoples, I was delighted with your insight around the story for first and second peoples in America too. It warms my heart.

@BenSussmanpro 2 жыл бұрын

It’s nice to hear a perspective on the West from an outsider like yourself. But as a US Eastern big city guy, I feel that London or Amsterdam is more familiar to me than much of the West. I do enjoy visiting the western heartland, though, especially all kitsh along some of the old US highways like Rt 66. I just wouldn’t want to live there.

@nacra613 2 жыл бұрын

I think your romantic view of the landscape can only come from someone living in 21st Century comfort. At the time, the settlers would have viewed the landscape as opportunity for advancement of their families lives. Agriculture and oil production as proof of wealth for the common people. Your comfort is built on previous generations hard work.

@yukonica4560 2 жыл бұрын

Alex, visit Yukon if you need inspiration to encapsulate the ‘was’ and ‘is’ of European settlement. We are shaped by a gold rush at the end of the 1800’s and a world war in the middle of the 1900’s. Yukon holds the beauty and the shame, the wonder and the wreckage, of western encroachment. Photographers from around the world come here to capture Serengeti north and witness Aurora. So much is missed. As always: thank you: namaste.

@SnappingTurtle.Design 2 жыл бұрын

Interesting narrative that “sees” the grand vistas of the West in a somewhat romanticized point of view in harsh juxtaposition to the settlement and exploitation of the land for its abundant resources. Human occupation is certainly unrelenting, and not generally pretty, the world over. However should you have occasion to travel off the main highways by car, bike, or by foot… you will still discover much beauty either seemingly untouched or well managed. The prairies stretching westward through to the Rockies and all the way to the Arctic ocean offers much from its people, it’s wide open spaces and it’s heritage.

@rogercaughell4282 2 жыл бұрын

Your mentions of the environment lead me to suggest that you use a YTpost to examine the photos of Edward Burtynsky.

@rogerbradbury9713 2 жыл бұрын

Alex, you might like to look at the artist Robert Crumb's piece, A Short History of America.

@andrewgallup3890 2 жыл бұрын

Usually I enjoy your offerings, this one was troubling because i am not sure how to react. This is an area, historically and geographically, that i know fairly well and the book and your narrative seemed abrasive to my view. I do not mean that in a critical sense. Before Covid we spent most summers traveling through the west and I supposed I developed that individual view. I could send you photos that would seem old or traditional as I probably shut out modern intrusions. Anyway, thanks for the wake up call. If you do take the road trip, take the paths less traveled.

@Rob.1340 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. 👍📷😎

@RobJorg 2 жыл бұрын

would love to see something around portrait photography. i am about to order Desiree Dolron - Xteriors book, not sure if that is the one to order.

@ThePhotographicEye 2 жыл бұрын

It's very much the one to order! Check out my review here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r8CWp6llzrjdm6M.html

@ejv1227 2 жыл бұрын

Some of things touched on this video is basically what the video game red dead redemption 2 is about. The narrative in the game is based on an old cowboy trying to fit in world that is moving twords modernization and industrialization, and the corruption that can come with it.

@robertgretter9452 2 жыл бұрын

You requested alternative titles as you felt "propaganda" might not be the best fit. How about - Before the West was won? Another might be - idealized landscape imagery. Another might be - what you see isn't necessarily what you get.

@twwtb 2 жыл бұрын

I don't know about propaganda, per se, but marketing for sure in many cases. You only have to look at the history of the Salton Sea to see how tourist areas were deliberately created and marketed during a certain period. There are many other areas as well.

@xxxjmgxxx 2 жыл бұрын

I was literally watching HAMILTON musical before this video... Great perspective, really interesting point of view. I must say - that aside from the really raw landscape images at the beginning - I was having hard time to enjoy the seemingly random (by themselves) and plain images of some cars and gas stations... These almost feel like snapshots to me. I assume the photographers who took them are great photographers, but strictly from aesthetics - I felt no connection with these images...

@RPGtravelphoto 2 жыл бұрын

You really would have to drive across the USA taking 4 different east-west or west- east routes to really get an idea of how vast the country is, and how different, and how similar, Americans are from place to place.

@bruceborrowman4342 2 жыл бұрын

I have to agree with you - the addition of the portraits at the end seem out of place in this exhibition.

@ChrisW.Fuji_Canon 2 жыл бұрын

wonderful 🙏👋

@ThePhotographicEye 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching and I’m glad you enjoyed it

@pwx8460 2 жыл бұрын

As you suggested early in the video an image can be used as propaganda. So what about a collection of images...such as this book? Is that the real propaganda?? As someone who has done extensive American west road trips, I can assure you there are vast amounts (thankfully) of unspoiled land. As a comparison, the area of land protected by the US National Park Service in the lower 48 states (so not including AK), is nearly the same size as all of England (30 million acres vs. 32 million).

@ThePhotographicEye 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching: Check out this next video about American photography: Photographers Who Discovered The Secret America (That Hides In Plain Sight) - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fciHjMSC197UfmQ.html

@johancarlberg1530 2 жыл бұрын

1:04 is a photograph by Sam Abell, Richard Prince plagiarised it

@gastonmannlicher8077 2 жыл бұрын

KZfaq algorithm may have stealth delete the video from subscribers because of the word “propaganda”.

@klartext2225 2 жыл бұрын

Wondering if you know the story behind the Richard Prince theft photo. I would like to know who is the REAL author of this picture, working for Marlboro advertisements.