High Elves Need a Rework, Dark Elves Don't - Total War: Warhammer 3 Immortal Empires

Рет қаралды 5,501

2 ай бұрын

Two of the strongest races in Total War: Warhammer 3 Immortal Empires, one needing a rework quite badly, another one fitting quite well in the meta.
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Пікірлер: 75

@3Kis4K 2 ай бұрын

Karl is better at statemanship than Finubar's faction led by Tyrion. Gelt is better at magic than the Hoeth group led by Teclis. Elspeth can teleport around the world while Teclis has to walk like a chump. Truly Magnus' student Empire surpassed the master Ulthuan. As for a good new wallbreaker unit, well Aislinn does have the Merwyrms under his command.

@krzysztofnosal4956 2 ай бұрын

High Elves must use more building slots to achieve what other factions can achieve with less slots. This is called "weakness". Thats basically a rule in this game that some factions has good economy quickly but worse armies and other has good armies but level of effort to get the same amount of tax income is greater.

@CacneaMain 2 ай бұрын

That new Morathi intro Scene was all the rework the DEs needed ;) (Ok and some more Slaanesh/pleasure cult themed stuff for morathi would be really dope. Probably not lore accurate but slaanesh-style chariots with Witch elves steering them or Marked Dark elf units would be dope)

@nexusinfinity138 2 ай бұрын

high elves needs a rework. they never had one. only nerfs and a unit pack thats it.

@westfield474 2 ай бұрын

Even in WH2 they got fewer unit pack DLCs than all of the other starting races. Skaven, Dark Elves and Lizardmen all got three unit packs. High Elves only got two.

@Draxynnic 2 ай бұрын

To be fair, there was a minor one with Eltharion and Grom, which is more than the Lizardmen had. But at the time, what the High Elves had was mostly fine - they hadn't lost one of their mechanics, and they weren't competing with TWW3 races and TWW1-with-massive-reworks races.

@Draxynnic 2 ай бұрын

@@westfield474 Not to mention that the High Elves usually got the short end of the stick with each (never getting more than one new generic character, Queen and Crone only introduced two units, skycutters being left out, etc). A lot of people excused it with the claim that there'd be a third in TWW3, which might have been in the original plans (there's a leak that there's been voice acting done, for instance), but given the rumours that TWW3's planned lifecycle has been cut short due to the issues its had up to now, who knows if that's still on the table?

@davidhernando353 2 ай бұрын

@@Draxynnic If it makes money, as seems to be the case, I doubt they will abandon it, there is still a lot of content to add and what I have heard is that the DLC team raises a lot of money and there are few people, therefore it should be very profitable and THrones has done a lot to fix the problem caused by Shadows. I very much agree that HE always seems to get the worst of it and less attention than the others in TW2 and it is worse in TW3, but they certainly have some DLC left to do, the units that are missing, both in the army book and beyond, are from clear marine theme, plus the Anointed of Asuryan as a generic general, Sea helm as a generic hero, three merwyrms to reskin the same unit as the dragons and two types of skycutter and completed DLC. Maybe CA even give the faction a Legendary Heroe, maybe.

@Draxynnic 2 ай бұрын

@@davidhernando353 You're saying things I've said in the past (although I doubt they'll make all three merwyrms... although they might simply because it's low hanging fruit once they've done one, I didn't expect the Arcane Phoenix either, and they might well share animations with the Kislev frost wyrm). However, there have been leaks that CA's plans have been severely cut back due to how Shadows of Change went. If Thrones of Decay has done as well as I've heard, those plans might be in the process of being re-implemented, but a lot of employees have apparently already been let go, so there's probably going to be casualties in terms of what gets implemented regardless. And I'm somewhat pessimistic that factions that have been neglected in the past won't continue to be neglected in the future.

@chozer1 2 ай бұрын

I dont see why both cant have rework/mini reworks happening in the same dlc. Dark elves are good but could be more fun

@via_negativa6183 2 ай бұрын

That's it, the problem is not that they arent powerful, CA really dumbed them down from wh2

@sandsundertail6936 2 ай бұрын

@@via_negativa6183 hell nah they are powerful (at least Morathi is). The growth is great, economy is great and with Morathi's corruption, ports and other stuff you will always have enough slaves for whatever you need. The only thing that changed for "worse" from tww2 is that they don't earn billions, but millions per turn instead, but getting growth and control bonuses is imo a good tradeoff, since with both low slave lvl and Morathi's corruption you'll never have rebellions if you manage it properly and that's not even mentioning Black Arks, which are only better because of how local recruitment was nerfed since then

@crowsephian6873 2 ай бұрын

I like the black ark but I always felt that the range of influence was lacking for how landlocked the majority of the map is once your past conquering the west half

@rasko125 2 ай бұрын

Dark elves defenitily need some faction mechhanics. Look at Malekith.

@Draxynnic 2 ай бұрын

One thing I'd noticed in discussions before I mostly stopped engaging beyond the odd video to keep up with what was going on is that a lot of people conflate "less powerful" with "needs a rework". While there are certainly some cases where that is true, fun is also important. High Elves and Lizardmen particularly suffer here. Both are absolutely functional, but Lizardmen, a race known for magical shenanigans in the lore, almost don't have campaign mechanics at all. High Elves LOST one of their mechanics (and weren't exactly overloaded with them to begin with), and often have a bit of a one-note early game.

@dirisheyy4829 2 ай бұрын

Yeah, the geomantic web could be much more magical, it could improve your winds of magic, give barrier to your units, have a bound spell or battle ability that improves with level... Even the final reward for building a web to tier 5 would be to teleport your armies as long as theres a continous chain of level 5 provinces. It should give specific buffs instead of buffing the alteady secondary and not very interesting commandments.

@travisspicer5514 2 ай бұрын

I find fun in using the heroes to boost units so that they become really good. Getting heavy calvary up to 100+ speed and requiring calvary in every army(which i never do) made an interesting campaign for me. That being said I don't play high elves like I use to so that is a sign in itself. Lizardmen 100% agree. A very boring race where it basically comes down to charge in battles. The geomantic web is basically a passive boost that can be changed to pretty meh benefit because commandments aren't special. Oxytyl is a fun campaign simply because you can go anywhere you want and create bases but the rest of them....

@Draxynnic 2 ай бұрын

@@travisspicer5514 Yeah, cavalry is one of those unit types which in terms of maximising performance you can often do without (unless you're playing Bretonnia), but having a couple can make battles much more fun.

@finn-3976 2 ай бұрын

The part that is the least fun for me with the HE are sieges, because you just dont have siege engines

@amadeuszjankowski9212 2 ай бұрын

Dark Elves need a rework. Murderous prowess was always a poor mechanic, slave system needs a proper UI and something relatable at all to the Chorf labour system, more units need innate magic attacks and any kind of resistances.

@joshpeck9266 2 ай бұрын

Teclis needs rework too, and magical attack animations, many mod spells….

@Draxynnic 2 ай бұрын

Now that those apocalypse spells are on the table with Gelt, they'd probably be a shoe-in for both Teclis and Mazdamundi. (Or maybe Slann could just get access to the apocalypse spell for their lore directly.)

@runeh3022 2 ай бұрын

DEs need a bit of rework for Morathi. Her faction should be a cult, not a professional military force and she should not be lesser when t comes to magic than Gelt, Elzpeth etc.Malkeith needs maybe a Black Council mechanic. The DE's need a few legedary heroes. Othewise they are ok.

@sandsundertail6936 2 ай бұрын

Black council would be good for whole faction allowing easier confederations and other schemes, but Morathi? I think she's at great spot. As a caster her pit of shades and soul stealer makes her deal with anything she sees and on top of that she's not bad of a duelist with all the debuffs and regeneration, which other casters don't have and about the cult mechanic I dunno how it would work, because she can't operate like Changeling, since she's still a power-hungry dark elf, who needs her lands and I'm not sure about undercities. I prefer her schemes to be the subject of Black council

@runeh3022 2 ай бұрын

@@sandsundertail6936 I was not imagining her quite like the changeling tbh. More of a cult in the open (she is out of proper dark elf society on the map anyways) where we see her pull cultists to her maybe in a manner like a Waaagh mechanic and where it is a bit more noticable that she does not have the whole infrastructure of DE society behind her, but draw on cultists from both Naggaroth and Ulthuan.

@Pontiki-bv2ed 2 ай бұрын

While high elves could use some changes i think it will be hard for them to get more variety. In terms of units they dont really need more units. What they need imo is a rebalance of their ranged units so that its worth it to take higher tier ranged units instead of spamming T1 archers. But i dont think they should take priority for a rework over other factions. They are in a way better place than a couple of other races that actually do need a rework. About dark elves yeah i agree they are in a good spot. I liked managing slaves in wh2 so if they could make the wh3 slave system a bit more interesting where you would have to manage slaves instead of just collecting them i would prefer that over what we have now. But its not like they need to do it. Both factions are actually very strong as you said so maybe they should only touch them first if they get a DLC

@sandsundertail6936 2 ай бұрын

Dark Elves may not need a rework, but I personally wouldn't mind getting something like great book of grudges for dwarfs, so that I don't have to rush heroes to Lustria and Cathay before Karond Kar bros are wiped out and I would love those additional victory objectives like legendary grudges for better roleplay experience

@GraveGhoul04 2 ай бұрын

I would love to see a unique campaign for morathi and malekith and legendary hero’s

@paulmualdeave5063 2 ай бұрын

shadow warriors are fun. They can wipe out an army and kite the enemy to other hidden archers who help finish em off. There are battles where I don't loose any troops. The battlegrounds with a higher ground next to river/lake are really good at this as the other archers hide in trees up high and my shadow warriors kite them adjacent to the river.

@llMoofasall 2 ай бұрын

What really needs a rework is the Dark Elf AI for Black Arks, and sea battles in general. I can't believe they're still so broken. The Dark Arks in particular during late game cause so much lag per turn it can easily crash the game. They need to either limit how many the AI can make, or just fix the issues with sea battles and movement. No other race causes so much lag and so many problems.

@Grivehn 2 ай бұрын

To be fair, they need Arks enabled to be able to assist their land battles, same as for players. And they need to recruit more and better from Arks. I still see Dark Elf AI spamming darkspears every now and then. As for their mechanics, theyre strong, sure. But Id still prefer if they got back their OWN slave mechanics that CA copy pasted to Chaos Dwarfs, AFTER removing them from Dark Elves.

@sagittariusa9012 2 ай бұрын

I play on normal and never did see the ai using many black arks.

@Grivehn 2 ай бұрын

@@sagittariusa9012 Might depend on how well theyre doing, but they might spam the Ark giving rite more on harder difficulties, too. Lokhir gets one with each capital port (I think), so he is usually the one lagging end turns hard. In my current game, the end turn thinks just as much on Morathi, Malekith and to slightly lesser degree Hellebron and Malus, too. Above 150 turns, theyre all still alive, and the first two control sizable territories, and have a bunch of Arks to boot. Not even Franz or Kairos each with 50ish settlements and within top5 take up as much time during end turns as any of the DE, for example.

@sagittariusa9012 2 ай бұрын

@@Grivehn Lokhir, who is that? No joke aside.... He is pretty much always dead in my campaigns^^

@Grivehn 2 ай бұрын

@@sagittariusa9012 Cathay seems to be more balanced in my experience, which is to say it can go to baddies as well as the dragon siblings. But its fair to say Cathay can get out of control easily, and they also have Gelt there now, too. Still, Lokhir is the one who can get out of control easiest with how many capital ports there are in Cathay for him to get hold of. I had several games where he alone came out on top of all the baddies there. Mind you I also play on normal or hard most of the time.

@ShadowWalker-ng1it 2 ай бұрын

I agree with most points but I would argue that for the HE the entertainment building is the primary eco building not the industry building because of the extra income from max control + there is more ways to boost entertainment income than industry income

@alexandermanley1695 2 ай бұрын

I was gutted that I waited so long to try the dark elves and concentrated on the high elves. The dark elves are so much more fun to play, and it gives you so many good options when you come across problems.

@danielcanalesgomez8628 2 ай бұрын

High and dark elves will have her rework in the next dlc with slanesh and thek khone with scyla against monkey king of cathay and goldfag for ogres. Nice dlcs are in coming

@guilliman1990 2 ай бұрын

Lets hope it's a dark elf high elves spicey pink guy one next. No idea what to do for khorne

@Grivehn 2 ай бұрын

They moved away from 3 races after Thrones. If the next dlc is Cathay vs Ogres, then there is no elves nor Slaanesh there. CA can contradict me on that, but Im 99% on this, so wanted to make it clear. As for Khorne, Norsca, Ogres and Greenskins (fighty factions) could have been all good pairing. Idk about missing characters and their lore, whom they could be paired up with. We might see a Khorne vs Slaanesh (theyre arch enemies) with the new dlc lineup. And that shall be it for both factions for wh3.

@Draxynnic 2 ай бұрын

@@Grivehn Worth noting that just because something's been leaked, doesn't mean it's next in the pipeline. There's a leak about voice acting for a (presumably) minor High Elf character that's been floating around for months.

@Grivehn 2 ай бұрын

@@Draxynnic Well, Dogs of War, Golgfag and Tigerman all have been leaked, some by CA themselves. Id honestly prefer Dogs of War dlc next, with Golgfag as LL for BOTH mercs and Ogres, chooseable by player, maybe hardcoded for Ogres as AI. I also believe it would sell well. More humans, with lots of wacky merc RoR units, if they do similar to Cataph's Southern Realms, that is. I really wouldnt be happy with Ogre vs Cathay next, we just had Cathay in Shadows of Change. We'll see when CA says something definitive, but its highly likely we wont get 3-race dlc-s anymore. If they wanna increase the dlcs they put out, makes sense going back to 2-races format.

@Draxynnic 2 ай бұрын

@@Grivehn Possibly depends in part on how much was done on the Slaanesh-themed pack that was originally hinted to come after ToD. Technically speaking, ToD is already more like three bundled packs than one three-race pack. For Golgfag, I could see the question of who he goes with being resolved by making him a LH available to several races, similar to how Gotrek and Felix worked.

@ThatsOk83 2 ай бұрын

Some DE LLs certainly need something to fix them up or make them interesting

@fizzle454 7 күн бұрын

i just got done playing a bunch of Dark elf campaigns only thing i did was use a few mods to make it a bit more diverse like names of power reskins and defeated lord's names of power is nice u can run diverse armys which was my only real tiny complaint when it came to them is thay certain units and heros are just far better and efficient fornlije every army... but the names of power mod really made it alot more fun tbh.

@Pyromaniac77777 2 ай бұрын

I keep saying we need Belannaer! Come on, a Slaanesh vs Saphery update with him would be perfect. As for the 3rd faction, Vamp Counts would be nice, or Lizardmen or Norsca.

@rx7fd9782 2 ай бұрын

Ridiculous. They both absolutely need reworks, HE are just much more demanding of one since they havent really had much love in quite some time.

@travisspicer5514 2 ай бұрын

Good points but high elves still have strongest lords in the game, a well spread roster, some of the strongest base units, and heroes with traits which allow you to make their armies even stronger by a significant margin. There units complement one another like dragon princes charging into oncoming armies while sisters of avalorn wipe them out on the approach. I would be interested in another elven lord on the islands with another unique mechanic once they fill in the blank land around kuresh(hopefully they do).

@mateipaveluc488 2 ай бұрын

I started with warhammer 3 and I'm a dark elf main, I honestly love the slave system so much because it's so versatile. I'm also horrible at the game so being able to just use a dictate to produce money or control is amazing and helpful, like better players don't seem to run into money issues but I always have and dark elves are the one race I've been able to manage with in terms of early game finances. Plus they are waaaay more interesting to play then the high elves since you have to close the distance to use dark shards and shades properly

@cillblinton8181 2 ай бұрын

Whenever redditors say they want delves reworked it annoys the shit out of me. You people dont even play them, let alone understand them

@via_negativa6183 2 ай бұрын

No dark elves definitely need a rework, at least the slave mechanic does. I'm not saying they arent powerful , they are the problem is the mechanic is BORING especially diktaks its a system that doesn't create any compelling gameplay choices at all. Dark elves would probably be way more popular if they made the gameplay more interesting. The suggestion of bkack council for makekith and changing morathi to be more of a cult based thing mentioned by someone else here is also a good idea

@nordicpush1452 2 ай бұрын

I like DE like they are... Bu i like alsso HE like they are now... They are kinda basic but still not bad... I would say their rework would be nice ofc but prob they are not first to choice (ogres and Norsca)...

@tobydorman3998 2 ай бұрын

Yapping god

@rayakins 2 ай бұрын

I am going to make a slightly perverse argument that the game needs a somewhat boring, simple and OP faction for new players to learn the game without getting totally frustrated by the size and complexity of the game. The HE kind of fulfill this the best atm. For those of us with stupid hours on legendary difficulty they have become very boring.

@Anon-cv7ru 2 ай бұрын

Elves roster feel underwhelming at this point, the Empire, Dwarfs, Kislev, Cathay are so much more fun to play.. I find myself getting bored real fast.

@joshpeck9266 2 ай бұрын

High elf dragons need a rework…they should ask as ritual summoned super weapons…they are limited even by animations they can attack 1-3 units max, even invincible campaign until I get so bored because even if he is almost unkillanle it takes AGESSS for him to kill things, get bored

@useeme1970 2 ай бұрын

they dont need a rework, they are already an op race!

@carlucioleite 2 ай бұрын

What needs a rework are the endgame scenarios and AI aggression. I am definitely not buying another High Elf DLC.

@SomeOne1121 2 ай бұрын

Agreed. Game needs a proper endgame before they stop supporting it. Maybe we'll have to wait until the actual end times dlc.

@LuzikArbuzik77 2 ай бұрын

Now that you brought up endgame scenarios, I have a good question I think Where is Warriors of Chaos / Monogods endgame scenario? Like, the most obvious one besides Vermintide? 🤔

@RobertWachtler 2 ай бұрын

I agree too. The game needs to be a challenge later on. It feels like if you play solid you'll outscale the AI Empires too fast and nearly guaranteed. Beneath a proper endgame crises or as part of it AI needs way more cheats in the endgame. I will not complain if I have to fight with more than one or two armies at one front at a time. I miss the strategy in mid to late, because I can decide where to atack and not have to worry about defending occupied terretorys. Also the AI needs to build stronger army's over time because with most midgame army's I the player will clap at least 2 of them most of the time no matter the faction.

@Draxynnic 2 ай бұрын

@@LuzikArbuzik77 There is the dwarf one... Mind you, I can think of potential for a couple. Lizardmen could have one where the Great Plan hits some critical point, the spawning pools go into overdrive, and they start swarming out from Lustria to complete the Great Plan. Or the High Elves could have a "the dragons all woke up signifying that it's time for the one last great battle against Chaos" event - which would also be fitting since, thematically, one of the big goals for Chaos should be to bring the Great Vortex down.

@tonitapola7811 2 ай бұрын

@@LuzikArbuzik77 I am hoping they are saving chaos endgame scenario for something more special than "here spawns armies at their starting location and now they are coming for you miles away lol:D". I want event where Archeon marches from the north with his legions while rifts open around the world spitting out demons, and some beastmen start wanking at nearby bushes or something. But we would also need other endgame to happen when you are being the bad guy. Current ones should be kept as distractions. Btw, I would like to have option to have multiple of them happening at different times, like if I get vampiric ascension at turn 70, there shoudlnt be a reason why vermintide couldnt happen at turn 100 too.