skinmoky: skinsmonkey.com/r/PENGUIN hey yeah this video was originally supposed to go up before but I thought i'd introduce my face in a more traditional video before you get blasted with it in this one, hope you still enjoy!

I've just come back from the Blast London event, and I'm not sure if it was audible on the streams but - the entire arena was booing every map pick because of how stale they were. The pool as it stands is awful to watch. Of the 13 total matches, Vertigo was banned 13 times, the next highest ban was Ancient on 9 and Nuke on 8. Dust2 was the most picked map with 10, next was Inferno with just 6 picks. It's important to note why Dust2 was removed, it wasn't just that the map was played out and stale, but because Valve recognised that significant changes to the map to freshen it up would completely eliminate the identity of this iconic map. It was given it it's own little queue in CS:GO too as recognition of it's importance. In my opinion, Mirage now needs the same treatment. We need to remove Dust2 and replace it with the incoming Cache from FMPONE, we need to get Mirage out next and get either another community map into the pool or bring back Cobblestone with a really, insanely huge rework. We haven't seen Cobble in 5 years, we can afford to drastically change it. In the end though, I think the most significant change for Pro matches would be to return to single pick / single ban with a randomiser for the third map. If teams don't want that then the map pool needs to be made bigger. You cannot have it both ways.

I like dust 2 and don’t mind mirage, but I believe the addition of dust 2 was the perfect opportunity to remove mirage.

Hey Penguin, love your videos bro but I wish you would do a little more research for your videos. The versions of Overpass and Cobblestone you showed where the first releases of those maps, they were not the versions of the maps used in the map pool for Cologne 2014 and on. Also the pick ban system that randomized the 3rd map only lasted until Cologne 2016 not thru Eleague 2017.

The thing is about the best players liking the usual maps, not just d2, speaks to your point directly. Theyre good on those maps, and they like winning. But in general, the more you play the game, the more you are really just playing the same damn maps repeatedly, while becoming both more knowledgeable about the game and more stubborn about learning any new maps. CS players need to have new maps FORCEFULLY RAMMED DOWN THEIR THROATS... until they like it. Thats pretty much Stockholm syndrome right there, but it works and is good for the game bc it helps non-demented gamers from getting bored with CS. dUsT2mIrAgEdUsT2mIrAgEdUsT2mIrAgEdUsT2mIrAgEdUsT2mIrAgEdUsT2mIrAgEdUsT2mIrAgE

One thing worth considering is how one note a map pool is. Since different maps have different styles of play. Mirage playes different from Inferno that plays different from Nuke. But in my opinion, Mirage and D2 have very similar styles of play. Long angles, aim heavy and traditional 3-lane layout. Cache would also fit this criteria so I would not want to see a map pool with all three of those maps. Having variety in the style of play is good ímo.

About overpass : 1 - it was the least played of all maps in cs2 among all players (pros included) 2 - it was becoming the most ct-sided map of the pool (at least at pro thus spectator level). So I love overpass and I didn't want it to be removed but it made sense. Especially since Valve just overhauled it, thet had to study data to make this choice.

A large reason I think the current map pool is bad is how similar all the maps are. Dust2, Mirage, Anubis, Ancient, and Vertigo all have the same general map layout, known as the "4-Box" or "3-Lane" layout, where the map consists of 3 main contact points between CTs and Ts, being the two bombsites on opposite ends of the map, and a "Mid" section that connects the two bombsites. Nuke and Inferno are the only maps that don't fit this general formula. In the past there was more of a balance between these "standard" layouts and more unique layouts, as Overpass, Train, and Cobblestone all didn't fit the 4-box design, but nowadays, we have a ton more 4-box layouts than unique ones. I find each of these 4-box layouts have a lot of similarities in how they are played. Because of this, I find the map variety to be a little lacking. My general approach to playing each of these maps feels incredibly similar on each of these 5, just with different angles. Nuke and Inferno feel much more fresh as they play very differently from the other 5, but this isn't enough to feel like much variety, and it's made the competitive side of the game much less interesting for me. I vastly preferred when the map pool was more varied with Overpass, Train, and Cobblestone in the mix. I get that it's more difficult to balance these more unique layouts as there isn't already a ton of map design theory to look back on, like you do with 4-box layouts. I also get that it's harder to make players start to like more unique and experimental maps, but IMO it's worth it to include them even if it takes longer to get the map to a high quality state, just to provide that extra variety.

My opinion is that in professional CS the gameplay has become too standardised because the maps aren't rotated enough, which makes for a more boring viewer experience. I would want to see a rotation after every major. One completely new map, like mills, and one reworked previous map. Ancient and anubis have been the best changes in recent memory since you get to see new ideas and executes being attempted. (I like vertigo to play, but it sucks to watch because of the layout). A map like Dust2 being added back means I get to see the same smokes as usual, with rounds almost fully dictated by aim duels

The main reason Dust 2 was added back to Active Duty is because of the Major hosted in China later this year, D2 is hugely popular there so it will bring in more audience & viewers to have D2 for that Major.

I think we should have a 9 map pool, at least for premier. It feels like our options are being stripped away somewhat with CS2. Can't get a real premier rank without being forced to only play the 7 maps in the pool (And even then, everyone picks Mirage anyways), so you can't get a rank if you wanna play something like Office. Kinda the same with the weapon loadout, where you're basically forced to choose meta guns or else risk jeopardizing yourself, so off meta guns like the sawed-off and autosnipers are basically dead (Even in deathmatch , because making the buy menu look like Valorant is obviously what's important).

Tournament pool, yes, 9 maps. Dust2 Nuke Train Inferno Tuscan Overpass Mirage Ancient Anubis Reserve Group: Cache Vertigo Thera Cobblestone Sub-Zero Season Austria Nostalgia Group: Aztec (with a Ancient paintcoat and some changes) Fire (someone will remember this) Comrade (barely anyone will remember this) Prodigy (for the love of God, it was the first de_ map) Dust 1

Use this as a fuck inferno button. Can’t wait till that map is out of the active duty pool

Valve: remakes overpass for CS2 also Valve: removes overpass from the map pool

the biggest misconception is that maps need to be balanced. oh i miss old nuke. it also made the game interesting

Subbed at 2k subs, nice to see your channel grow!

bro I was furious when they added dust2 back in the pool. The map has had the same layout for over 20 years, which is crazy when you think about it. The map is great, don't get me wrong, but it's become so stale and boring to watch pros play on it. All the oldest maps like mirage, inferno, dust2, etc. have been basically the same for decades, and what annoys me is that people seem ok with that. The CS community is really stubborn about any kind of map changes, so the only way to add new maps is to just put them in there and force people to play on it, which is exactly what they did with vertigo back in 2019. Valve stuck it in the map pool for everyone to play, and although everyone hated it at first, it's been refined into arguably one of the best maps in the game, which is something Valve can do with any map, if they really want to. I can see their reasoning for taking out overpass, as the map is pretty CT sided, but they could have easily fixed that with any kind of change, but instead they removed it from the pool entirely. and in its place, they could have added any map in the whole world, one that has already been in the game, one from the steam workshop, anything, but they chose to add dust2. The most simple, boring map in the game that has been played probably hundreds of thousands of times. I get the map is super iconic and pretty well designed, but I, along with a bunch of other people I'm sure, just want something new, something fun, something interesting that hasn't been played for 20 years. Sorry about this yap, but it's just what i think.

they removed overpass, one of the few truly different maps that allow for high level strategies and replaced it with d2, one of the simplest and tactically most boring maps in the game. at the same time they bought the rights to tuscan, another map that could provide something fresh to the pool but havent even ported it over. we now have a map pool where 4/7 maps are basic 3-laners. if they really wanted to bring back d2, the obvious choices to go would have been inferno which has been super bland to watch in recent tournaments imo anyways and is probably the only map with even less strategic depth than d2 (arguably) or mirage which is just outdated at this point. better choices for a new map would have been train, cobble, tuscan or even a completely new map

I agree with 9 map pool. One of most important argument for me is that when there is a big map pool you know strats and util lineups and will not forget it over time if it gets replaced for some time and then comes back. You don't have to re-learn as much because it stays in the pool and thus your memory.

I think they should divide the maps into tiers, have it raffled before every Major, just before the start of the qualifiers: 1 map from the "Classic" Tier Maps (Dust2, Mirage) 2 maps from the "Pro" Tier Maps (Inferno, Overpass, Train, Nuke) 4 maps from the "Regular" Tier Maps (Cache, Ancient, Vertigo, Tuscan, Anubis, plus 2 more fresh maps (I'm thinking one map from a future Mapcore contest, and one remake map like say Cobble or Season, or the 2 recent maps Mills and Thera in the meantime) At least that way, it keeps both the fans and the players on their toes, and forcing all of us to learn a lot more maps than what we do now. Just my 2 cents

praying for Mills to be added to active duty (thought the chance is low especially considering what happened with the last catfood map)

The reason i dont like the current map pool is ive played dust 2 and mirage hundreds of times, its become stale. They are solid maps but I just like some variety. Ideal map pool would probably be: Nuke, Anubis, overpass, Ancient, Train, Cache and then one new community map in this case Thera looks good. Oh and i thing once we have a bigger pool of maps finished and ready it should be 2 maps swapped out each time the map pool changes. Big fan of 9 map pool also

Great video. I really like this format

I don't dislike dust2 but a pool with dust2, mirage, and ancient which are similar...too much for me

Crt in the background, melee background at the start of the video; do you play melee? If so you have good taste

The Atlanta Major did not have the randomized map veto. Cologne '16 was the last one having that.

I would love a map pool of D2, Cache, Train, Nuke, Overpass, Ancient, and Anubis. This is just my personal opinion, and heavily directed by my matchmaking bias.

Two vids in less than 24 hours, u are spoiling us bro

They’re stupid for removing overpass. It’s easily my favorite counter strike map of all time. A lot of players hate it because of some of the longer lanes, the head glitches, and because awps are filthy on Overpass. But no other map has that holding bathrooms and then falling back to site mid round feeling. Nuke also has a dynamic CT play style that doesn’t fall in line with the usual 2 A, 2 B, 1 Mid CT format and is always so much fun to play.

8:43 I might be wrong, cus I didnt watch it live, but hltv lists grand final veto as if 3rd map was picked by astralis (via banning 1 of 2 remaining maps). Only bo1 was affected by randomness where last 2 remaining maps were random

live edits are an awesome idea

this whole topic of discussion reminds me of the thescore video about mirage, i dont remember exactly but the title is something along the lines of "the best map that nobody wants to play anymore". yes, dust2 is a good map. it's stood the test of time for a reason. but at this point it's just fucking boring to watch and even play for me at this point

It should've been -Vertigo +Dust 2, although I'm not entirely mad that Overpass went instead, because that was one of the least popular maps in the pool due to it being a map where a good AWPer is oppressive and it was also incredibly CT sided, to the point of it not being fun. Dust 2 is also a map where a good AWPer is oppressive, but it's one of two maps that are distinctly T sided which is fun.

10:00 the problem with 9 map pool would be that in a normal bo3, each team would have 2 permabans at the start anyways, so that would barely change anything, that would even stay in a bo5, the only change would be maybe to bo1. Unless we make veto look like -1, -1, +1, +1, -2, -2, +1

6:26 "people love cobblestone" lmao Also I LOVE dust2. All hail dust2. Yes it is imperfect (unlike csgo's inferno, maybe) but it has soul. Some crazy stuff happens there you never see on other maps. "but very played out" "but we're bored" then get mirage out.

his tv stuck at infinite loading loop 🤯🤯🤯

-ancient +thera -anubis +mills -mirage +train -vertigo +cobblestone

love the fact you still use everhood music. such fucking banger tracks from such a banger game.

-mirage -vertigo -dust +tuscan +train +random map on workshop(or maybe cobble but i want new stuff)

I think they added Dust2 back for the Chinese Major

I think the process of how the map pool rotates is the one thing that really needs to change. Everybody's got a different opinion on what maps are best, so arguing whether D2 was the right map to add or if Overpass was the right map to remove is kinda a waste of time. But for everyone's sake, there's gotta be a consistent process for announcing changes to the pool. Dropping it into a random update without warning is just not a player-friendly system.

ayo is that a stoneflower vinyl??

How about night-time map versions and seasonal changes with weather changes

i personally would like the following map pool to shake things up 1) Cobblestone 2) Train 3) Tuscan 4) Nuke 5) Cache 6) Thera 7) Inferno

I would also like to see more bo5 series. Haven't played cs frequently in a while due to university but coming back to MR12 makes the matches fly by way too fast that even though each round is more important now, each round doesn't have the impact or oomph behind it because of how short the matches are. You start losing, you lose.

I would love to see 2 maps change after every major adding one new map and 1 returning map

Dust2 is added back in large part due to it being a fairly playable map for a huge part of the community that still relies on potato PCs to play the game. Remember that the community is world wide and outside of the US and EU is a huge community that doesn't have last gen hardware. Having said this, no one still agrees on what map "should" have been replaced. A lot of people want Mirage gone, a lot though the prime candidate was Inferno. I've heard people complain about Vertigo and also Overpass. So there is NOT a consensus in the community about what map to remove, let alone what map to add in. So Dust2 being the iconic map that it is, and also the one Valve won't update to maintain its playability, it was the logical choice.

penguin my beloved🤤

This map pool is sooo stale. Dust 2? CMON... Overpass at least got a nice make over from its port to CS2, and it gets removed for dust 2.... Ancient and Anubis honestly the only maps I still want in the map pool. Inferno looks nice but plays not so well right now. Small changes to all the maps could really just help freshen things up. But please can we get some new maps.

I also really would like a 9 map pool

i kinda hated the change at t spawn so you cant awp right away at mid

wow i love historical cs videos. awesome content dude. please keep up the good work

I low-key kinda like the randomizer. It has the potential to force teams to know more maps. If you're the best team in the world, that should be at the whole game, not just being best at pick/bans

as there isnt any videos uploaded on the new channel just yet, I hope you just keep to one channel if the topics are the same anyways. I think having an extra channel just for side content is a miss for people who already enjoy your content on your main channel. as (at least I) dont keep up with multiple channels even though I love all of their content, with a big example of 3/2/" "-klikspilip

If we could just get... cs_assault de_dust de_piranesi de_prodigy fy_pool_day he_dodgeball he_glass I'd be more excited to play CS2.

yeah I don't know why they don't just add more, like you don't need to replace maps, just add more maps.

I see myself in the chat! YIPEEE!

I just want to jump around trains again ):

overpass is one of my favourite maps last time i saw one of my favourite maps leave the map pool, it never returned (train)

Good video i dont see why not upload it on this channel

8:37 Actually I think this fact is JUST barely wrong. I believe Eleague Atlanta was the FIRST major without the random map 3 selection. At least, that's how my memory and HLTV seem to line up. So, the Luminosity back-to-back majors were the last 2 majors with the randomizer, if you want to put context.

It's so funny that the community in my bubble talks about stale map pool, remove Mirage, add more maps to rotation and so on, while the larger community is so up against changes. And it makes me sad. I wish for an operation with interesting community maps, which you can explore and learn to play without sweaty players using the same tactics from match to match. But as some other commenters already said, you have to force this down players throats, or else they will play same fukken Mirage for eternity and be quasi-happy

We haven't had a new map for a year and half with Anubis and before that Ancient in 2020 so were most likely due to get a new map for the next map change. Still hoping we can get rid of stale maps like mirage, dust2, and inferno, just because their good doesn't mean there isn't other great maps that can take their place. Varity is the spice of life after all.

reason overpass was removed was it was the least played map in pro scene. they dont care if you like it or not, this is numbers. after dust2 is back, vertigo is the least played map rn.

my complaint is that ancient, mirage, and dust 2 are pretty much the same map layout with a different coat of paint

They used those versions of the maps for the major?

when tf are agnecy and lake coming

Dust 2 is fundamentally flawed because of its double choke point nature. Each site has a choke which can be util’d off literally the entire round, every round. It leads to stale play

The things I would do to play CSGO nuke

what is this background music

Hi Penguin. Thanks for the video ! Quuck bit of feedback on your editing : could you pretty please turn the background music down just a little bit or, alternatively, add subtitles? It would help a lot of people with hearing disabilities or whose native tongue is not English 😊 It is otherwise great to see your face and get your takes on the map pool❤

I like the new inferno a lot more and with the new cs2 incendiary changes this is going to be lot more exciting

I stopped playing when they retired zoo/workout/season. Those were such fun maps and were a different layout than the typical 3 lane rehash that all the other maps were.

All I want is cobble stone back‼️

I want Agency back!! More hostage maps, Danger zone without the silly launch pads and forced duo's

I love the new Italy

I think they should have added many more maps to the game. It's so boring to have such a limited amount of maps. But I think this will change with the upcoming operation. Still they should add way more maps. They should introduce a whole new cycle of maps all new to people so it will be about fun again.

I'm loving the uptick in videos recently. I'm still a little mad that you lied about being a Penguin, though

Actually a banger video

I just want train back. Train A site area is so cool.

I would say it's more stale than bad. They need to get rid of dust2 and mirage. Dust2 should have never been brought back. Cobble needs to be reverted to it's original layout at csgo release before it was butchered, cache is coming but it could be over a year away. Tuscan would be nice, its a remake of a classic staple from 1.6, people would love it. Inferno needs to go, too. It's like watching 2 AIs playing chess, the map is so beyond solved at this point it just puts people to sleep, every round of every game plays out one of a couple ways, every time. I would also like them to at least attempt to experiment with hostage rescue or even vip. Not on maps that already exist, obviously, assault and militia are unbalanced jokes. I think a map built specifically for hostage rescue at the pro level could be something new and exciting and fresh, which is what the game needs. You're right, new smokes wasn't enough.

We need new Cobble!!

I have always been garbage on cache but it is one of the best maps and would want it in the pool. I would rather have a good map pool then the one that benefits me the best. I think their should be map pool seasons where they rotate as well. Nine map pool does sounds kind of cool.

Penguin looks like anthpo woah he prity :)

9 maps would suck. Easy to suggest 9 maps, for someone who doesn't have to continuously rehearse all nade lineups, and who doesn't plan on becoming good at entire map pool. And what the heck, in the usual premier, it's a wonder to find teammates that knows a lineup or two in the current 7 map pool. 9 maps would be just be a way to further dull down already a dull map knowledge of majority cs players. I imagine same problem would apply on pro matches, having to split their time on more maps.

I don't think dust2, ancient, anubis, and cache should exist simultaneously in the pool. All very simple 3 lane grid like maps that overlap each other too much. One or two of these mixed with train, cbbl, vertigo, and inferno would be nice. Mirage just needs a time out... maybe replace with season or one of the other old operation maps.

De Dust 2 deserves everything to be in active map pool

we simply need more community maps, there should always be 1-2 community maps in the pool, never 0.

as a spectator watching pro play i must say the only kinda bad map rn is inferno the good one being actually all 3 new maps chronologically release (anubis, ancient, new vertigo reworks) all of this probably because pro teams had so many strat to utilize nowdays, esp T side and so map layout play big role on that mention, the last 2 release map got the best layout for defaulting and contest early-midround while maintaining good overview on how to approach late round depending the situation. nuke is kinda weird since it ct sided but it is the best thing to see when pro team as t side won gun round there

Any chance you will co-stream on KZfaq? I truuuuly hate Twitch and their seven 30 second ads in a row.

We need train

ooo crucial mistake releasing this video before pool day gets added oo ..

expand the pool and make it somewhat random what choices you have. 12 maps pick from 7 random ones.

-ancient -inferno -dust2 -mirage -vertigo -anubis +season +tulip +resort +zoo +marquis +workout +overgrown +blackgold +cache

i just want train to make a comeback in the map pool honestly

Give me Train or give me death

I think we need some new blood in the map pool not reworks. I want to see a map that has NEVER been played before something actually new and creative. I wish competitive was reworked and used by valve to experiment with new maps and leave premier for established maps.

a lot of people seem to hate mirage. i personally still like the map but i think ancient, dust 2 and inferno are absolute ass tho. but i do sometimes wish mirage got the vertigo treatment. i like the map how it is but seeing all vertigo changes really puts into perspective how much you can turn a map around.

Valve's insistence on keeping Vertigo would be more respectable if they removed Mirage from the map pool

I just want cache back