What are your thoughts on the show so far?

皆んなが同じストーリー、同じ内容のドラマを視聴したが視聴者それぞれ解釈が違うのが面白いね。 文化的な要素が強いドラマだから日本人なら簡単に解釈できるシーンでも海外の人からは解釈が難しいシーンもあるみたいだね。 そこで皆んなが自分なりの解釈をコメントして理解を深めようとしている。 このドラマの最大の魅力の一つだね！

Remember in the beginning there are ishido spies everywhere even in Toranaga inner circles Lord Hiromatsu death was not in vain, They cant march into Osaka they are outnumbered !! and the only way is a surprise attack.

虎永と広松の絆の深さに泣ける😢

This is like the first 3 seasons of GOT in just 10 episodes. Without all the filler.

This episode is peaked television

You have to consider that Toranaga is based on the real life Japanese hero who started a dynasty/period of over 250 years of peace, and founded the city of Edo/Tokyo. That red light district, that pledge, is still there and is still honored by the present Japanese government.

Toranaga is a different breed. He has to live with Hiromatsu's sacrifice (a death that has the viewer distraught - you can only imagine how it is for him losing his best friend). The man has an unwavering commitment to the cause.

It's really hard to know if Nagakado's death was really part of Toranaga's plan. Because actually since all of these epidodes, I personally thought that he was not really such a cruel person. Perhaps his son's death was a mistake in the plan, and as for Hiromatsu, perhaps he knew what he was doing, he volunteered to sacrifice himself for a nobler purpose.

I felt sad and horrified when grandpa die in this.... crazy!!!

- Hiromatsu knew Toranaga's plan - Toranaga had to make sure that his defeat would look clear in the eyes of spies (who knows if it was only yabushige or else) - Nagakado's death was not planned but gave Toranaga more time.

Blackthorne asked Toranaga to go home 👉🏻 Toranaga gave him every reward possible, except for letting him go home. Mariko told Toranaga she wants to die 👉🏻 Toranaga kept her alive because she’s still useful in his master plan. Martin told Toranaga he wants a church in Edo 👉🏻 Toranaga gave him a location of a church…next to brothels. Buntaro asked Toranaga to execute Blackthorne 👉🏻 Toranaga got him to execute his own father instead. None of these people got what they wanted. They all fell into a “be careful what you wish for” thing, except for one. Lady Gin asked Toranaga for a red light district in Edo 👉🏻 She got exactly just that.

現代日本人でも分かりにくいところがあるけど、殿様に対しての忠義や自らの宿命が侍にとってどれほど大切なものかは日本人ならば少なからず理解できる。

Toda’s ultimate sacrifice was for a greater purpose. Toranaga to rule (at least his family will be protected or on the winning side) and prevent Japan to go civil war. Even if he didn’t die there he would have been killed soon anyway if Ishido attacked Edo so he chose his death to mean something… now Ishido/Osaka believes Toranaga gave up the fight for real.

Appear weak when you are strong. He’s been cooking up a plot this whole time. This “war” took his son and his best friend he’s going to finish the fight

If Hiromatsu had not raised his voice in that scene, all of Toranaga's servants who opposed him would have had to commit seppuku. Hiromatsu assumed this responsibility himself and believed in Toranaga's true intentions. His death was not in vain.

Sanada-san once played Ishida Mitsunari, but Ishido (Ishida Mitsunari) was so disgusting that I thought he was the complete opposite of Sanada-san. Ishido is a hated character. Mariko may be drunk with her own sadness, or Hosokawa Garasha's character may appear often. There is no kindness in looking into Buntaro's heart. Buntaro's heart is very pure, and this time I felt sorry for him. As expected, this work well expressed the great determination of Toranaga (Ieyasu), who later realized that Japan would be a peaceful country for more than 250 years, and built Edo, the world's most prosperous and populous metropolis. . In episode 8, I felt his determination, strategy, wisdom, and strong courage to the point where I felt how terrifying he was. Yabushige was interesting.

見事な切腹でした。西岡徳馬さんの迫真の演技によって、腹を掻っ捌いた残酷なディテールも観ることができ、首が見事に一太刀で飛んだ時は、少しホッとしました。日本のTV時代劇では、ここまでリアルな表現は見たことがありません。ありがとうございました🎉

"i knew yo ass wasn't sick" that part got me crying LOLOLOL

Reminds of a chess match I had with my tito. He "clumsily" placed his queen piece in a vulnerable position. He was surprised with his wrong move. I just offered him to undo the move. But he said, rules of the game must be followed: once you touch a piece, it should be moved. I was so happy with his mistake, so happy that I moved all my pieces to cut down his king and finally end the match. Yet, he pulled a trick out of his sleeve. I lost the game 5 minutes after. I can only ask my "What the F__ happened?"

That look between Hiromatsu and Toranaga right before Hiromatsu says "You do believe in pointless death" is when I think Hiromatsu realized that Toranaga would never allow him to actually kill himself unless he had a plan. Unfortunately, after realizing that he also realizes that he has committed himself to seppuku and cannot stop now, because he needs to sell the idea that Toranaga has truly lost.

He use the death of his own son and a life of his life long friend to built a stepping stones to victory. that is cold as fuck but also require the strongest heart.

史実では徳川家康の長男は織田信長の命令により切腹しました。武田信玄に内通した疑いでした。

OK......Lord Toranaga was willing to Sacrifice himself and his Whole Clan to avoid another bloody Civil War. Lord Hiromatsu sacrificed Himself to basically WAKE UP Lord Toranaga from the Nightmare and Grief of his son's Demise by reminding him of his "Pointless Death" comment. Do not let MY DEATH and Your Son's be POINTLESS.

I read the book. In the end, the prince kisses the princess and they live happily ever after …

wts gonna happen next is toranaga will step down and the Anjin will rise up, he will storm osaka with his new friend and become shogun. but in a serious note, it is all planned. the old man raised toranaga and probably taught him a lot of tricks when he was young, the old man knows he is not going to surrender. but what is happening here? they need osaka to be convinced that toranaga has given up and loss all motivation to fight, so they will drop their guard, so their plan has a chance to work, remember earthquake devastated his army, and his army is further weakened, so they need every element of advantage they can get, including time and surprise, and an over confidence enemy. for a little bit of context, the art of war/romance of three kingdoms/Thirty-Six Stratagems were all published long ago in china, and these were all must read for the japanese war lords during the waring period. this strategy actually falls under Chapter 6: Defeat Stratagems in thirty six stratagems, which calls for inflicting injuries to one self to get your enemy's trust. that is why toranaga appears to be very ill and sick of all the war and fighting. this messege needs to be received by osaka. toranaga's surrender means death for all his top generals and warriors, so it is obvious that they would want to fight and die on the battlefield instead of surrendering and then die this way. this is why hiromatsu has this performance, this is to show osaka that even toranaga most trusted general and friend does not approve his "surrender", and will die to protest it, but is unable to change the lord's mind. all this is to give osaka an image that their clan is defeated, and all they need to do is to wellcome his surrender. notice that in ep3 when toranaga escape osaka castle, no one knew about the swap, except hiromatsu. he was always part of the plan. and when you watch and listen carefully to what hiromatsu has said, earlier he told fuji not to go for death, but live in the victory won by those who passed away to achieve it. and now, he told his son to NOT FOLLOW his path but to continue to SERVE the lord, even though the lord has "lost and given up" on himself, and he also said in the room that this is "between him and toranaga", so other generals would not be invovled in this matter, one old general was going to draw his sword if you watch carefully. this is because toranaga does not need convincing, he is just putting on a performance, because there are eyes and ears of osaka everywhere and he needs them convinced of his "defeat". imagine what would have happened if his general go out one by one to protest his surrender? then he would have no army to fight the war later, every action was done very carefully to give the greatest perforamce at the lowest cost. also notice that toranaga told the church guy to tell osaka that he has no desire to fight and tell them what happen here? osaka probably wont convinced, but with the death or hirmatsu, things would be different.

Toranaga is playing chess. Everyone else is playing checkers.

we're just like Ishido, we always suspect Toranaga has something in his sleeve, even he committed surrender we still not buying it. so the whole ep7 and ep8 are used to convince us Toranaga is fked hard and had no other way, when Matsuhiro committed seppuku we audience are like sh* I wanna know how Toranaga's gonna flip this cause I don't see how. and the next scene Toranaga show's how the show convinced us is exactly how he gonna convince Ishido. but sh*t I really hate it he sacrificed Hiromatsu. His son died probly a mistake but that just made his defeat more convincing.

The old guy realized all the vasals wont believe he is really giving up. So he did that so no one doubt toranaga anymore.

Both Usami and Hiromatsu deliberately acted hypocritically for the sake of my lord and committed seppuku. He laid down his own life and performed for the Lord. Usami is there to protect Toracho from the council, and Hiromatsu is there to deceive the enemy spy (Yabushige) who is among his allies. Toranaga Yoshii in this drama resembles the historical Tokugawa Ieyasu. Kazunari Ishido in this drama resembles Mitsunari Ishida in history. And Hiromatsu in this drama resembles the historical Mototada Torii.

Thanks, Demica! Thanks, Cam! 🗾

I think they were both right and Toranaga didn't have a choice but his friend also had a choice.

In Japan at the time, there was a custom called ``諌死'' in which a vassal would die to warn a lord if he failed. This led Osaka to believe that Toranaga was serious about surrendering, and that he was willing to do so even if his vassals died.　Also, the ``person who cannot die'' refers to Toranaga. Historically, Toranaga was a feudal lord, but since he was an only child, he always made many sacrifices to survive the country. That's how they made peace.😄

Toranaga playing 12d chess, bro's a scary MF

Toranaga is playing 3D chess!

Ppl do undestimated the commitment of Samurai on that age. In Meiji Restoration, Saigo Takamori the very famous samurai from Satsuma who help topped Tokugawa Shogunate and restored Emperor to the position as head of state agreed to visited Korea Kingdom and disrespect the Korea king and forcing korea to executed him on the spot so Japan can have pretext to invaded korea. The japan government at that time disagreed on Saigo plan so Saigo resigned from government in protest instead.

Agreed. I think he had more than one plan in mind but he probably did not want to act on this one. I think he made a small note of it when he mentioned he would have to pay an even greater cost...he knew this particular plan needed something to happen to make it more convincing and that death was the cost he had to pay.

I agree with you, Nakagado’s death-by-slip is not lazy writing & it segues perfectly into this episode with the time it allows Toronaga to strategize.

Um, bro, Toranaga is ANYTHING but insane.

侍の真髄と凄さを痛感しました

Buntaro trolled twice in this episode. Buntaro: 16:50

Bro, lmfao. Are you dozing off @29:44?

A plan within a plan. . . Layers of Trickery - - Toronaga is 3 moves ahead of his enemies.

Toranaga is a politician first and foremost. So no matter how likable he is to us, he will always prioritize his Machiavellian schemes over morality.

Toranaga deception is mastermind noones understand 😂

All I know for sure is... Ishido is going to be in the dark as we were. And that's why I think it's going to work.

I'm sure Toranaga didn't expect his right hand to contradict him, but he had to be strong even if its pained him to lose Hiromatsu - his death was not part of his plan.

Please, do not spoil in the title.

The lady ochiba was lived in edo before so it makes sense those jendral already in her pocked

This episode affected me like the Games of Thrones's The Red Wedding - - Its so Shocking

I see people misunderstand buntaro and mariko, yes hes an abuser in recent times but it was mariko who made it "awkward" between them. They were both forced into marriage but she was always cold and didnt try to make their relationship atleast somewhat manageable You cant just act like mariko is completely innocent in their marriage failing. Sure, he's relatively worst, but she still pushed the marriage into becoming what it is

Why is the guy on the right asleep? Maybe film the reaction when he’s not so tired?

現代の日本人も心の奥深くに武士道精神は宿ってる❤🇯🇵

I really thought Toranaga was grieving for his son, and he was not thinking right and he could not see what he was putting his men through. He should of told his bff of😔 his plans. This episode was directed by a black guy.... 😅

Toranaga is cold blooded, however indeed tricky. Just like in chess, he sacrificed his important chess piece just to win. That’s how strategic he is yet cold blooded. 🤴🏻♟️♟️

A plan within a plan. . . Layers of Trickery - - Toronaga is 3 moves ahead of his enemies.