Crokinole's Most Confusing Rule Explained (Official National Crokinole Association Ruling)

Рет қаралды 30,312

Күн бұрын

Crokinole's Most Confusing Rule Explained (Official National Crokinole Association Ruling)
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Official board builder for the World Crokinole Championship, Jeremy Tracey explains and breaks down one of the most confusing rules in crokinole. He goes through different scenarios all while there are NO OPPONENTS BUTTONS on the board. What could go wrong?
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Official NCA Rules: • Crokinole Rules: Offic...
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Crokinole Shots Half Hole: • Crokinole Shots Half Hole
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Intro Music Produced by: Dominic Leduc
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Abbott & Costello Who’s On First: • THE BEST: Abbott and C...
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0:00 Intro
0:49 The Most Confusing Rule
6:53 Bloopers

Пікірлер: 109

@TheBoardGameKaptain 3 жыл бұрын

That was a really good explanation. It can be a little confusing, Thanks so much for making this video!

@turtlevader 4 ай бұрын

I don’t see how anyone needed this video. The rule is super easy to understand.

@LeoLewis Жыл бұрын

My board was delivered today and I will play my first game soon. Thank you for this video.

@Berliozboy Жыл бұрын

Had never heard of Crokinole till yesterday. What an awesome game. The US needs to get its acts together!

@TraceyBoards Жыл бұрын

I promise you we are working on getting your country up to speed :-) we make a lot of road trips and its really gaining traction :-)

@LearnChessWithLPM Жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards hey you guys should do more videos!!

@darrelluruski1728 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome! It cleared up a lot of questions.

@hankwheels 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video! Couldn't find an answer anywhere in the rulebooks but you answered it in the video! 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿

@salsalas116 3 жыл бұрын

great vid, keep the content coming!

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Sal 😊 the next vid is already recorded and lots more in the hopper now. Stay tuned.

@holgerschulz4104 3 жыл бұрын

Hooray for clip-on microphones! :) And thanks for explaining!

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

You are welcome for the explanation. Keep the feedback coming as we want to continue to improve and give people what they want to see :-)

@amyclarke9085 8 ай бұрын

Thank you! This was the question we had most as newbie!!

@TraceyBoards 8 ай бұрын

yup, so many questions about this :-) Thank you for all the comments on our videos, it is great to know they are being watched and enjoyed.

@speedy740 2 жыл бұрын

VERY GOOD VIDEO!!! A+++ 100% clear answers 👍🏻

@TraceyBoards 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! 😃 We try our best :-)

@jimgrant9081 3 жыл бұрын

So great to see all the great content, Jeremy! My money is on Daniel too. Keep up the great work.

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jim, I'm glad everyone from your area isn't like Mr Daniel. LOL

@robertahance631 Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@TraceyBoards Жыл бұрын

You're welcome! 😀 Thanks for watching

@nihlify 2 жыл бұрын

Not sure what's confusing about it. I get that if someone reads the rules for the first time without ever watching someone play they might interpret it wrong, but the rule is fairly straight forward to me.

@TraceyBoards 2 жыл бұрын

Maybe 'most questioned' would be more accurate :-) We get so many 'yeah, but what if...' questions on this one.

@anneroop4806 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! We were just introduced to the game over Thanksgiving. We were cracking up at the end when you said 'Jay' will probably write in with another situation. I don't know if 'Jay' is someone you know or just a generic name for the kind of people who write in, but you hit the nail on the head because you probably will hear from my brother Jay with a peculiar scenario.

@TraceyBoards 2 жыл бұрын

Oh there is a very specific Jay I had in mind when I said that 😆 🤣 ... and I am resdy and waiting for Jay's question :-)

@rayedjualidan1504 2 жыл бұрын

Very good. The one that I came to see was actually the last scenario. I started to get nervous at the end😅

@tonibat59 11 ай бұрын

All variations of this rule are explained of you assume that in any collision both pegs get fused together for an instant and therefore you CANNOT distinguish them any longer after the collision. Since you CANNOT be sure which is which after the collision, you are challenged by plausible deniability for the existence of a violation, and then (if and only if there was an undeniable violation) you apply worst-case scenario to punish the violator(s). This line of reasoning correctly adjudicates all the examples discussed in the vid - including the case when the shooter touched your own peg inside the circle and one of them ended inside, the other outside (5:40). No matter which is which, in this case you apply plausible deniability - both pegs fused at the instant of contact and nobody can be sure that the shooter did not actually ended up in the circle - By plausible deniability, there was no violation that can be proved - you are good to go, no one goes to the gutter. The origin and rationale for this rule is that in Crokinole - thanks to this rule - you NEVER need to discuss or consider which peg did what at any collision.

@guillermoz4914 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I always describe this rule the same as when you need to hit opponents piece. If any of your own pieces are touched without hittin an opponent piece, all of your own pieces that were involved are out. Same rule for both scenarios. Thnx for the video 🤘🏽

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

100% correct 😃

@shortydancer 2 жыл бұрын

Dude I love your videos. I wish there was more people to play with here in the US. Has Crokinole ever been rented out? Like an hourly basis? Kinda like you go play bowling or pool, you pay per hour and get a board and biscuits. Might be a nice thing to do at a bar or something.

@TraceyBoards 2 жыл бұрын

This would be LEGEND...wait for it

@TheCbass13 Жыл бұрын

Video summary: If there are no opponents buttons on the board, once your shooter is flicked, at least one of YOUR buttons WHICH MOVE during your turn must end either inside or touching the 15 circle. If non of the buttons WHICH MOVED during your turn end up in or touching the 15 circle, those buttons are removed from the board.

@TraceyBoards Жыл бұрын

that's a fantastic summary, thank you. you have no idea how many times I have been messaged, emailed, called, approached with some sort of 'yeah but what if this? what if that?' I am very aware that I flogged a dead horse and I am very aware that I have also still been messaged by folks who watched this video with a 'what if' question. 😀

@dadtier564 7 ай бұрын

This is how I will explain it! Fantastic summaru

@lymn2002 Жыл бұрын

usually the opponents piece, bounces into the gutter wall and back in the 20 hole, i added it as legit just for LOL

@snarfleezcattleprod4506 2 жыл бұрын

Somehow, after that amazing and exhaustive explanation, I still have a question. At 6:38 you summarize the rule as "Did THE SHOOTER or ONE THAT THE SHOOTER TOUCHED". However, in the example at 3:28, Button B was removed even though it doesn't match either description. So... as a hypothetical, let's say that only button B had ended up in the middle. Am I good to go? Or would I remove all three (Shooter, A and B) due to the fact that B doesn't fit either of the capitalized descriptions above?

@TraceyBoards 2 жыл бұрын

Well done LOL. As hard as we worked on this we still left a question... almost 2000 views and you are the first to point this out 👏 What I should have said at 6:38 was "Did the shooter or one that the shooter IMPACTED (or effected or some other word rather than touched)" Removing button B in the example at 3:28 was correct according to the rules. Had button B ended up in or touching the 15 circle then it would be a valid shot so no discs would need to be removed.

@snarfleezcattleprod4506 2 жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards lol yeah, I'm the "rules" guy in our game group, so I always consider edge cases. Thanks for the clarification! For me, I don't think that "touched" was the problem; I think it was just that the wording focused on the shooter that caused my confusion. So perhaps a wording such as "Did ANY BUTTON impacted after the flick end up touching or inside the 15 circle?" could work well. Just my two cents. Thanks again for everything!

@TraceyBoards 2 жыл бұрын

@@snarfleezcattleprod4506 thanks for the feedback. I do appreciate it and its great that you listened so closely :-) I dont think we will redo this video but I will try to be mindful of word choice going forward. Words can be so powerful which is awesome :-) Happy flicking 😁

@shortydancer 2 жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards they way I like to explain it is, “after the flick something has to land within the 15 circle. If nothing landed within, then all biscuits that moved go to the gutter. “

@josephprice5872 Жыл бұрын

Re: your suggested question to ask at the end, I find this is an easier question to ask & answer: "Are any of the buttons that moved still within the 15?"

@danielpopp1076 10 ай бұрын

^^ Absolutely this. This is actually a more accurate question too, because the question posed in the video leaves room for error. "Did the shooter or one that the shooter touched end up within or at least touching that line?" The question as posed doesn't account for the scenario where shooter hits button A, button A hits button B, and only button B ends up in the circle, or any similar scenario. Your simplified question does account for such a scenario.

@darrenerickson1288 2 жыл бұрын

Dangit, I want to make a joke asking "but what if I shot using my left hand and the prior button on the board was shot with my right hand..." but you did get questions still... so I'll just bump your rating a little bit by commenting... hope you like the hypothetical what-if that wasn't as a meta Schrodinger's Cat comment. Thanks for the vid!

@TraceyBoards 2 жыл бұрын

I appreciate all comments, well most, even the ones I dont understand 🤣 and yes, you can use both hands 😉

@redtide08 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Jeremy, thanks for these rule videos; I have one of your boards and absolutely love it. Had a situation where a piece hit the 20 and did a tiny backflip, landing squarely on top of another piece inside the 15. What's the rule surrounding a piece on top of another piece?

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

Great question! And we definitely have the answer kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gN2Zi8phvKu3dGw.html

@joshuaelek Жыл бұрын

I think it’s easiest to say: if there are no opponent’s buttons on the board, then look at all the buttons that moved. If one of them ends up in the kitchen, it’s a valid shot. If none ṭ of the buttons that moved end up in the kitchen X , all buttons that moved must be placed in the gutter. Does this miss anything?

@TraceyBoards Жыл бұрын

that says it quite well. Nothing is missing AND people will still ask questions LOL

@joshuaelek Жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards lol

@Sysaphys 4 ай бұрын

It's pretty straight forward, actually.

@krapenc 7 ай бұрын

So it must be within that circle or ON that circle? I thought that, points-wise, any button on a circle counts in the lower score.

@TraceyBoards 7 ай бұрын

For scoring, you are correct. If it is touching a line it is worth the lower point region. the 10/15 is also used to determine if a shot is valid or not and if it is touching the line or within the 15 circle it is a valid shot.

@melkozun8972 4 ай бұрын

What if your opponent’s button is touching the pin and your button with sufficient velocity, hits the pin and moves your opponent’s button, but does not contact the opponent’s button then what?

@TraceyBoards 4 ай бұрын

Great question! As it is read in the rules, since neither your shooting disc or other discs struck the opponents disc, it would be an invalid shot and the shooter would come off

@TraceyBoards 4 ай бұрын

Side note: I don’t think this is even possible, but will now be testing it 🤣

@sdowrick 3 жыл бұрын

Triple cow backflip Simon Seagull manoeuvre lol. Those land in the 20s Jeremy!

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

Based on my experience, only when YOU are the shooter Simon. And its a triple sow cow back flip, get it right would ya 🤣

@mattgefroh7575 3 жыл бұрын

What if I have my button touching the 15 line and I try to bump it to the 20 with my shooter. I hit it but not hard enough, so it's still sits on the same line after my shot and my shooter is outside the 15 ring. Pull them both off ?

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

if one of your buttons that gets touched during your shot ends up even touching the 15 line you are good to go. No buttons get removed.

@mattgefroh7575 3 жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards Even if it's touching already?

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

@@mattgefroh7575 yes, if your shooter touches it and it is even barely touching that 15 line (viewed from the side not from the top) it is good to go. In terms of a valid shot there is zero difference between being completely in the middle and barely touching that line.

@mattgefroh7575 3 жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards Thank you.

@na01jsn 9 ай бұрын

Is the ruling touched or moved? I mean if my shooter disc touches an opoonents disc, that in turn touches and moves one of my own discs into the 15 area. Both shooter and opponent disc ended up outside. I would argue thats a valid move, as one of my discs that moved that turn, ended up in the 15 area.. even if the shooter disc didnt directly touch it... right?

@TraceyBoards 9 ай бұрын

In the scenario you described there is an opponent's disc on the board. Therefore, in order to make a valid shot one your discs must touch an opponent's disc at some point during your shot. Having one of your discs be in or touching the 15 is not necessary. That is only necessary when there is NO opponent on the board. Hope that helps

@na01jsn 9 ай бұрын

@@TraceyBoards lol. You are correct. Thinking malfunction =D

@TraceyBoards 9 ай бұрын

@@na01jsn I had a brain cramp once LOL. Happy flicking 🙂

@na01jsn 9 ай бұрын

By the way. Would you say mothers speed wax would work for the board? I was looking for the other one here (in Sweden) but it's not in stock anywhere. The place I ordered from called me said they had this one instead.

@na01jsn 9 ай бұрын

@@TraceyBoards yeah mothers spray speed wax. The shop said it had replaced the golden one

@PhilHenDrums 3 жыл бұрын

Okay, so what if my shooter doesn't reach the house, but my fashion fingernail pops off my shooting finger, hits my other disc that was near the 15 line, and bumps it just enough to touch the line?! Other than having to buy a new set of nails, is the shot valid???

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

gotta admit, I didn't see this one coming LOL. I'll have to kick this up the official rule makers of the NCA and get back to you.

@PhilHenDrums 3 жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards Good thing I don't wear fake nails! ;)

@creinman 3 жыл бұрын

Could that be considered a finger guard, which would violate Rule 7e and make the entire thought experiment invalid?

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

hmmmm, I guess refs will have to start doing fingernail checks like they do in the UFC. :-). Great to hear from you Connor, looking forward to sitting across from you again.

@laurenherrmann_videos Жыл бұрын

So, new player here. Watched your quackalope rules explanation then came here to see if it answered my question, which may be a no brainier but was not specifically stated, so wanted to double-check. Based on how the rule is worded, you are not required to hit one of your own pieces in any of these situations. So, if no opponent pieces are on the board and you have one piece in the far 5 or 10 section, you can play right into the 15 without touching your 2nd piece, correct? Thanks! Getting my board in the mail today!

@TraceyBoards Жыл бұрын

Correct. You do not have to contact your own at all. There are times it is better strategy to bump your own but thats a completely different topic. 😁

@gavinbabcock7 Жыл бұрын

So if it’s only on the 10/15 line but not actually touching any of the 15, it’s good?

@TraceyBoards Жыл бұрын

Yessir, if it is even touching the line it is considered a valid shot. Question, is this the Gavin Babcock I've seen in Jomez? Love watching you chuck plastic :-) DG is the second greatest disc sport on earth 😆

@gavinbabcock7 Жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards Thank you! And yes it is😂 I appreciate that! My stepdad made everyone some sweet regulation specs Crokinole boards for Xmas and I’m freaking hooked! Taking it out on tour with me this year!

@TraceyBoards Жыл бұрын

@@gavinbabcock7 love it. Crokinole is so damn addictive.... kinda like disc golf 🤣 maybe we will get to play a round of each some day... trade some tips 😁

@gavinbabcock7 Жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards I would love that!🛡️

@DonGamber 5 ай бұрын

So, on the line means your in the middle?

@TraceyBoards 5 ай бұрын

Yes, at least for a valid shot 😁 it counts as a valid shot if your disc only makes it to the line of the 15 circle. However, also keep in mind that at the end of the round, if a disc is on the line between regions the disc is scored for the lower point region. In this case, a disc on the line between the 15 and 10 would only be worth 10 points

@jdzb123 3 жыл бұрын

What happens if a button ends up on a peg... Yes this really happened to me! Also how is it that I am the only person I know who had heard of this game before I made my board?

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

You know I have never seen that in all my years of playing. And I have never heard an official rule of how it would be handled in an NCA match. Re: crokinole being fairly unknown.... we are working on correcting that :-)

@jdzb123 3 жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards are there any rules about buttons ending up on top of other buttons? I assume the ruling would be similar in both cases

@DonGamber 5 ай бұрын

Who makes a nice game board I could contact?

@TraceyBoards 5 ай бұрын

We do 😁 if you want to learn more about the Tracey Crokinole board check out our website: traceyboards.com/shop/

@ejohnso1967 Жыл бұрын

What would I like to see? I have seen this video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q8uSmpymvN-wlYk.html. But I'd like to see you make your own history video, and perhaps in that, talk not only about the design of the game, but it's history of popularity, the history of different manufacturers over the decades, how did Tracey Boards came to be (what made you decide to get into such a business?), who were the primary manufacturers 10 years ago, 20, 30, 50 years ago? How has the design and manufacture of boards and buttons changed over the decades, etc. How has the popularity of the game both inside and outside Canada grown and changed over the years? ...History of Crokinole organizations, standardization of rules, history of tournaments, etc. There's a lot of material to cover, and I'm not readily finding much in the way of videos on this subject, so here's a real opportunity for Tracey Boards to make a real contribution to the knowledge base of Crokinole! Are you up to the challenge? ;)

@TraceyBoards Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this. There is a whole series of content to be mined from that paragraph. I am hoping to hire very soon and get help with this process of video creation. When we had Mac here we were pumping out 1 or 2 vids every week but we have been slacking since he left... time to get back on the horse :-)

@DanielVieu 3 жыл бұрын

What about if your shooter goes through the middle bounces back into the house and then touches one of your own? Gatem!

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

as predicted.... thanks for not letting me down Mr V :-)

@DanielVieu 3 жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards join my parents my friend! You're welcome.

@TraceyBoards 3 жыл бұрын

@@DanielVieu I am always up for a good DV heckle... or prank.... or whatever he comes up with that day :-)

@kennethfharkin 3 жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards But what is the answer? Shooter bounces off the opposite rim/ditch, re-enters the play area, bumps a shooter's disc on the board (not in the house though), then continues to spin to where it falls in the house. The shooter disc is remove because it left the board but it ended motion inside the house after having hit another disc which was not in the house. 1. Shooter's disc and disc hit remain. (cannot see this happening based on the standing rule that a disc which leaves the play area and returns is removed at the end of the turn). 2. Shooter's disc and disc hit are removed. (don't agree with this one.) 3. Shooter's disc removed and disc hit remains (I agree with this one.) To me the shot disc is not removed until after all motion stops and although it is to be removed for having left the board it's interactions after returning remain (damage stays) so it is still a "legal disc." If it ends motion in the house the contacted disc outside the house should remain. Now if the shooter's disc leaves the board, reenters, then hits a disc inside the house which remains in the house it is simple. The shooter is removed and the contacted disc is left. Slightly more complex is a shooter which leaves the board, reenters, hits another of the player's discs OUTSIDE the house and both the shooter and contacted disc land outside the house. In this case the shooter is removed as is the contacted disc following the same logic as used to justify #3, the shooting disc is alive until play for the round ends. My head hurts...

@bbqturtle 2 ай бұрын

Somehow I watched this video 3 months ago and I thought you HAD to hit your own disc and one had to end up in the middle. If you don't hit any other buttons and your shooter ends up in the middle, you're good! It's pretty clear, but you're right, it's confusing!

@TraceyBoards 2 ай бұрын

hopefully this video helped

@bbqturtle 2 ай бұрын

@@TraceyBoards It did!

@myvlog4me 2 жыл бұрын

What if one falls in the gutter and kicks one out of the gutter into the 15

@TraceyBoards 2 жыл бұрын

any disc that is in the gutter is considered out of play. if it reenters the playing surface it must be removed and does not count but any 'damage' is causes stays. you can check out the damage rule video to learn more about that scenario 🙂 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/h8uhq6WYps-apWQ.html

@myvlog4me 2 жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards how high in the air can a piece go before it's considered off the board

@TraceyBoards 2 жыл бұрын

@@myvlog4me I don't think it is considered off the board until it touches something other than the board or air. So if it touches the rail or, hypothetically speaking, if it touched the ceiling that would likely be ruled as out of play. Maybe you should just come over and play so we can answer all these questions 🙂

@SenseiDecay Жыл бұрын

Not that hard, can be summed up with, of all the buttons in motion one must land in or on the line of the 15 circle.

@TraceyBoards Жыл бұрын

It might surprise you how often we get the question. sometimes straight up then other times it starts with "yeah but what about if..." We still get a question but a bit less often now :-)

@devekut2 2 жыл бұрын

Never shoot "oot the furr side".

@TraceyBoards 2 жыл бұрын

My wife is forever telling me to stop saying 'out' like that. Out, about, bar, car and a few other words just come out with an east coast tinge to them LOL.

@devekut2 2 жыл бұрын

@@TraceyBoards 😂