Cue Tip Contact Myth-Busting Truths in Super Slow Motion
Рет қаралды 191,727
Күн бұрынNOTE - See my follow-up videos that clearly show that a softer tip does not get more spin:
- “Can a SOFTER TIP Put MORE SPIN on the Ball? -- MYTHBUSTING Answers” video: • Can a SOFTER TIP Put M...
- "POWER DRAW and Large-Curve Massé with a BREAK CUE Phenolic Tip!!!" video: • POWER DRAW and Large-C...
- "A Fun CHALLENGE DRILL to Test Your DRAW QUALITY … and SOFT VS. HARD TIP Comparison" video: • A Fun CHALLENGE DRILL ...
Dr. Dave busts many common myths concerning what happens when a cue tip hits a cue ball. Everything is supported by super-slow-motion high-speed-camera footage.
Contents:
0:00 - Intro
0:10 - Myth 1 - Tip Contact Time
0:48 - Myth 2 - Control During Contact
2:07 - Myth 3 - Tip Hardness Effects
3:16 - Myth 4 - Shot Speed Effects
4:23 - Myth 5 - Miscues
5:42 - Myth 6 - Sliding Contact
6:29 - Wrap Up
6:45 - ---- clip montage
CORRECTION:
- at 4m21s, I meant to "no noticeable effect" (not "noticeable effect").
Cue/Tip Info:
- Fury HT with unknown "hard" leather tip
- house cue with Elkmaster "soft" tip
- Players break cue with Bakelite "phenolic" tip
NOTE: Many people have suggested that the longer tip contact time associated with a soft tip would allow the soft tip to impart more spin to the CB. "This is simply false." For the reasons why, see the newly-revised cue tip hardness resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/c...
Supporting Resources:
- Top 100 Pool Myths: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/
- cue tip contact time resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/c...
- stroke acceleration resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/s...
- cue tip hardness effects resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/c...
- miscue resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/f...
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@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
*NOTE* - See my follow-up videos that clearly show that a softer tip does not get more spin: - “Can a SOFTER TIP Put MORE SPIN on the Ball? -- MYTHBUSTING Answers” video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gL6Vgs9q0pu4dp8.html - "POWER DRAW and Large-Curve Massé with a BREAK CUE Phenolic Tip!!!" video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hMCTjc97s72ZeXU.html - "A Fun CHALLENGE DRILL to Test Your DRAW QUALITY … and SOFT VS. HARD TIP Comparison" video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ip6mh7Rkua2unKM.html *Contents:* 0:00 - Intro 0:10 - Myth 1 - Tip Contact Time 0:48 - Myth 2 - Control During Contact 2:07 - Myth 3 - Tip Hardness Effects 3:16 - Myth 4 - Shot Speed Effects 4:23 - Myth 5 - Miscues 5:42 - Myth 6 - Sliding Contact 6:29 - Wrap Up 6:45 - ---- clip montage *CORRECTION:* - at 4m21s, I meant to "no noticeable effect" (not "noticeable effect"). *NOTE:* Many people have suggested that the longer tip contact time associated with a soft tip would allow the soft tip to impart more spin to the CB. "This is simply false." For the reasons why, see the newly-revised cue tip hardness resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ *Cue/Tip Info:* - Fury HT with unknown "hard" leather tip - house cue with Elkmaster "soft" tip - Players break cue with Bakelite "phenolic" tip *Supporting Resources:* - Top 100 Pool Myths: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/ - cue tip contact time resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/ - stroke acceleration resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/ - cue tip hardness effects resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ - miscue resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/miscue/ *Subscribe to Dr. Dave's KZfaq Channel:* kzfaq.info
@sdrtcacgnrjrc Жыл бұрын
I'd be curious what you think of Cesar Muroya's latest video "Controversial Push Stroke..." in the situation where the cueball is very close to the object ball and you're hitting at slightly over ninety degrees to angle of direction -- oh, better look at video, I can't describe it well...
@sdrtcacgnrjrc Жыл бұрын
Link related to my above comment: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m6mGf5Z6nt-aY3k.html
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@sdrtcacgnrjrc That was definitely a bad call. The CB heads in the tangent-line direction, so there was no "push" or double hit. Anybody who doubts this should review the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/double-hit/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/push/
@Alex.The.Lionnnnn Жыл бұрын
Then why not just use a phenolic tip and never have to change it or shape it?
@ronniecortex4936 Жыл бұрын
Impressive! But English snooker players will always disagree...
@shortydancer Жыл бұрын
Dr Dave, as an engineer, I think you need to add units to your table. You’re stating 1.9 thousandths of a second, but the table should also have this unit.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
The units are "ms." I don't like to "clutter up" videos with too much detail, but your point is well taken.
@Tehbrainlessone Жыл бұрын
Thank you very much. I had several hours of arguments in my life and words simply couldn't convince people. I can just send them the link to this video now and call it a day, use the time to actually play pool. Thank you Dr. Dave!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
And if that is not enough, also send them to this page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@jamesdavis8731 Жыл бұрын
Dr. Dave, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, but I think at least one of your conclusions is wrong. If a soft tip stays in contact with the cue ball up to 50% longer that HAS TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE! While I don't experiment with different tips much, I have gone to a softer tip because that was what I had available to me. I immediately noticed more "action" on my draw, follow, and left and right english. It was quite noticeable in fact, and actually caused me some issues with making shots and getting position as the cue ball had more action. Also, a friend of mine, who had used my cue with a harder tip, mentioned that he was getting more spin with my cue. I had not told him I had changed tips. I firmly believe, and your own evidence suggest this, that a softer tip imparts more spin. It would be different if the difference was only say 3-5%, but you are mentioning up to a 50% difference. It is hard to believe that additional contact time does not make a difference on spin.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Explanations for why a softer tip cannot apply more spin can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@filthymcnastyazz Жыл бұрын
Is that the same as more contact time not being able To impart more spin?
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@filthymcnastyazz Yes. More contact time does not allow you to impart more spin per the detailed explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@jan.kowalski Жыл бұрын
Yes, he did a wrong calculations. He used stiff interactions, where there is a spring force. Rookie mistake.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@jan.kowalski A soft tip does deform more and stay in contact longer with a lower peak force (but still a very small interval of time), but this is unimportant to the action of the shot based on the detailed explanations here (and at the links on the page): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ It is the total "impulse" (integral of force over time) and momentum change that is important (which is the same for both the hard and soft tips).
@tysongonsorowski8574 Жыл бұрын
Another great informative video, I've gained great pool knowledge from watching your videos and always encourage my pool buddies to watch them too.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thanks. I'm glad to hear it.
@NoSh1tSherlock Жыл бұрын
If the cue ball literally only is in contact for that microsecond, then wouldn’t say, the whole practice of “staying down on the ball through the shot” be completely irrelevant to accuracy. Or that a straight follow through is essential for accuracy. Literally, both of those things have 0 impact on where the ball goes
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Follow-through is important for the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/ The importance of staying down is described in the videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/
@jur111 Жыл бұрын
have been playing this afternoon. good to see these images.
@NoVowel Жыл бұрын
Intersting and informative. Great video Dr. Dave!! Thanks!!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
You’re welcome. I’m glad you liked it.
@GetMeThere1 Жыл бұрын
Superb work -- as always. Thanks.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thank you, and you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
@johnshaw6702 Жыл бұрын
I'll need to watch some more of these. Precision is a key to good play and you can definitely feel the difference in how you hit the ball. As a player of many years, the hardness of the tip does make a difference. But I can play with almost any fairly straight cue with a good tip, you just have to make adjustments to compensate as best you can. The tip is just the tip of what's involved. ;)
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Any good player can adjust to any tip, regardless of the "feel," assuming the tip holds chalk. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ BTW, the brand of chalk really doesn't matter much either (unless it is one of the "cosmetic" style chalks that sticks to the CB too much): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/
@cristianmunteanu8765 Жыл бұрын
This was very informative. Great job! Awesome video!😊
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks!
@flyfin108 Жыл бұрын
please dont get fooled by this total BS, nothing to do with actual billiards
@ivanbelsak5077 Жыл бұрын
Amazing video as always DrDave!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@larryvietvet543 Жыл бұрын
Fantastic information, had no idea the contact time was so short. My inquisitive mind started wondering how long a baseball bat and ball stay in contact. Researched and found it's in the same range.
@TheSnookerGym Жыл бұрын
Well done Dr Dave as ever!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thanks Nic!
@MPL_14.1 Жыл бұрын
Very interesting. Thanks Dr. Dave.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
You’re welcome. I’m glad you liked it.
@sawmillsam7156 Жыл бұрын
Dr Dave, it's too bad you were not available to me when I was 10 years old and first picked up a cue. I could have been a world beater! I am 69 years young now!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
It is never too late to improve. I'm 58 and I am still improving my knowledge and my game.
@bunchan76 Жыл бұрын
But how is the cueball reacting to the 0.4-0.9ms differences? And how are the time differences insignificant? I could see if the difference was less than 5%, but you’re talking 16%-50%.
@jamesdavis8731 Жыл бұрын
LOL. Yes, just because the time is still really small doesn't mean a 50% difference doesn't matter! Even a 25% difference.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
The reasons are explained in detail here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@peymanghorbani6390 Жыл бұрын
I agree with you bro, any amount of contact time effects the cueball tremendously.that’s why people have different strokes. I think dr is wrong on this subject.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@peymanghorbani6390 Even if different strokes created different contact times (I have not seen evidence for this), the differences would be unimportant for the same reason why the differences in contact times with tip hardness and shot speed are also unimportant. The reasons are explained in detail here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/
@SomeGuy-tz8dz Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards , so why does a long stroke with good even acceleration cause more draw as opposed to a short jabbing stroke, with a sudden pull back on the cue? @DrDaveBilliards, let just saw a post down a little that might answer my question! Thank you for all you do for the pool community!
@Husker.Harley Жыл бұрын
Mind Blown!
@apostyle 6 ай бұрын
Awesome work, beautiful footage, I will explain with bases to my friends why a miscue is a foul o double contact
@DrDaveBilliards 6 ай бұрын
FYI, I have a lot more videos and info dealing with miscue fouls here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/miscue/ Especially check out the first video there.
@eddiegoodman8411 Жыл бұрын
Very similar idea in tennis. People think they have control over what they do with the ball at contact. Truth is, the ball is already gone. Nice video!
@Intothelight1981 Жыл бұрын
This is a great video. It put me to sleep better and quicker than KZfaq sleep music.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Sleep well. Play better.
@jayd2230 Жыл бұрын
Need to do a myth bust of the different cue tip sizes. Penny, Nickle, Dime
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/
@greeneyeddevil1 Жыл бұрын
Thanks Dave this very interesting
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
You're welcome. I'm glad you think so.
@bartvanhoewijk2242 Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I enjoyed!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
You're welcome! I'm glad to hear it.
@luloffadam Жыл бұрын
I imagine that a ball that is in contact with a tip for half the time, hard vs soft tip, would have a large difference in the amount of spin imparted onto the ball. I would like to see some numbers on what the difference in RPMs is between soft and hard tips.
@haydenwalton2766 Жыл бұрын
It definitely does. even though we're talking thousands of a second. try putting a soft piece of rubber as a tip on a cue and see the incredible amount of side you can get on a cue ball. and as a result transfered side to an object ball as well
@jamesdavis8731 Жыл бұрын
Absolutely no question about it. Softer tips do impart more spin. I never believed it before and honestly didn't care about what tip I used as long as it was not phenolic. Then I changed to a softer tip because that is what I had on hand and there is no doubt the EXACT SAME CUE gives me more follow, draw, and english. No doubt at all.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Detailed explanations can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@ourniche 4 ай бұрын
totally agreed - what needs to be "quantified" is the relationship between the contact time (already determined) and the rpm of the cue-ball after contact which presumably could be determined by analyzing the same video.
@luloffadam 4 ай бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards until you get a mechanical arm to hit the ball the same speed no one is going to buy it, even if you're right that there is no difference. Hitting the ball yourself is not a good measure because you are going off feel to create the same force and that is too subjective. Not to mention the bias of the person putting on the experiment influences any experiment, and in this case is also the test subject, amplifying the bias.
@stefaneekenulv419 Жыл бұрын
Fantastic!!!!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thanks!!!!
@philipbheller Жыл бұрын
I play with soft tips and I carry sandpaper in my wallet so I always scuff the tip to suede, allowing it to hold more chalk. Sometimes on an English shot I will give the pool cue a small twist. I am pretty sure I can hold the ball longer than 1.9 in this fashion. I can feel the side of the cue roll across the surface of the ball
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Most of what you feel is after the CB is long gone. It is impossible to feel what happens over a few milliseconds. For more info and explanations, see the info and links here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Concerning swiping or swooping your stroke to get more spin, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/swoop-swipe/
@TokenTombstone Жыл бұрын
I enjoyed your mythbusting video.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I'm glad to hear it. If you are interested, check out my follow-up videos, info, and links here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@gman5051 Жыл бұрын
I think a person will sleep better at night knowing that with a softer tip , you’ll have fewer miscues ? When hitting in the outer zone , especially if your hitting at steeper angle .
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
As long as a hard tip holds chalk, and one chalks properly, miscues are no worse.
@clintwalker3127 Жыл бұрын
Great vid, very interesting
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thanks. Also check out the follow-up videos and detailed explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@DavidM1337 Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I'd like to learn more about the velocity or acceleration on draw shots and when you miscue. Would be interesting to get down to the ms level to understand what's going on.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
We don't really need a high-speed camera to know what is and isn't a good draw stroke. All you need to know is here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/
@TheDegenVagabond Жыл бұрын
It's interesting on the draw show miscue that most people say the miscue is caused from hitting under the cue ball to begin with. When in this you can clearly see that the hit is in the correct place to begin but then drops below to scoop. Would love to see more of in this slowmo format. It's beyond interesting.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
FYI, I have lots of slow-motion videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/high-speed-video/ Enjoy!
@lgold3416 Жыл бұрын
NO Jeffery the video shows A WAY you mis-cue. Most people mis-cue from hitting under the ball. This video gives you just 'bout enough info to make people think they know whats goin on
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@lgold3416 Most people who scoop the ball on draw shots do so because they are tensing up the arm and stroke which causes the tip to hit much lower than they intend to. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/ and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/scoop/
@rebeuhsin6410 Жыл бұрын
The lower the contact the more likely the slipping.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@rebeuhsin6410 No doubt about that.
@CocoboloCowboy Жыл бұрын
Pretty Cool stuff.😮
@larryvietvet543 Жыл бұрын
My observation watching the contact times, The cue ball moves approximately 2MM during contact time with the soft tip and 1MM with the hard tip. Less then 1mm with the phenolic tip. I used small sticky notes to mark the cue ball movement, beginning and end of the cue tip contact. There is a noticeable difference.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
There is a difference, but the difference has no important effect per the info and explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/ and here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Enjoy!
@larryvietvet543 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks Dr. Dave, Always thought the contact time was much longer.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@larryvietvet543 Many people do, hence the "Myth Buster" label.
@tommyandersen1764 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great video! 😊 And very surprising. I always believed and felt that long follow through accelerates the spin on the ball. 🤔
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
The follow-through is a sign of a good stroke, not the reason for it. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/
@tolkienfan1972 Жыл бұрын
Follow thru, IMHO, is about preventing noobs from decelerating the cue before stroking the cue ball, but instead making a smooth stroke throughout.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@tolkienfan1972 Agreed. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
@creglia Жыл бұрын
Interesting video. My only question is “who is striking the ball”? Pros and amateurs contact the ball very differently. What many players say the difference is hitting the ball, or pushing it. When I’m “pushing the ball”, the contact feels 1000x different that when I’m hitting it. And the feeling in my hand tells me the contact is more than illustrated in this video.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
What your hand feels is mostly after the CB is gone. The cue's momentum does all the work during contact. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/light-vs-tight/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/good-timing/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/weight/ BTW, the shooter in the video has a very typical good stroke with smooth acceleration into the ball, like most good players.
@ecotable-theecofriendlyres8077 Жыл бұрын
Nice billiard educational video. Love u dr dave 👏👍👍
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@fabbricatopersonareale Жыл бұрын
This videos is kinda proof that sometimes more graphs and information is not the answer
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
You and others might instead prefer the info, illustrations, other videos, and explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/maximum/
@fabbricatopersonareale Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards bit too convoluded for me sorry. I feel your disregard of the human element of pool to be wrong. The human mind and body is the most complex thing on the planet, and our senses enable us to do/feel things that are almost imperceptible or explainable
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I definitely appreciate how useful "feel" can be in pool. Almost everything in pool requires solid intuition and "feel." I also understand and have documented the importance of the mental game: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/mental/
@geeman509 Жыл бұрын
great stuff, can settle lots of conflicts.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
... or create more for the people who refuse to accept the logic, reasoning, and visual evidence.
@byronwatkins2565 Жыл бұрын
Thousands of Newtons of force can make a considerable difference even in hundreds of microseconds. This is especially true for spin. The cue ball momentum is independent of the tip, but the friction and spin is much better with a soft tip.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
More force over more time does make a difference, but the rest is not true based on the explanations and supporting videos and links here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Check it out.
@byronwatkins2565 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards My experience says the opposite. Five years of trying never made a hard tip perform as well as a soft tip. The difference is not huge, but trying for extreme spin with a hard tip always results in a miscue.
@jan.kowalski Жыл бұрын
@@byronwatkins2565 he just did a wrong calculations thinking in terms of stiff interactions. Obviously, which video shows, there is an additional spring force.
@mengshun 8 ай бұрын
The psychological effects of hard vs soft would be a good candidate for a study. I suspect some people probably slow down their shots subconsciously with softer tips to impart more spin. Physics don't lie.
@DrDaveBilliards 8 ай бұрын
You are correct. Physics and careful experiments don't lie.
@str8up_15 Жыл бұрын
Can you make a video next on the anatomy’s of the stroke , like what different muscles groups do when you stroke . Your the only one that can do it Dave 🙏🏼
@james1795 Жыл бұрын
Use the muscle between your ears.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I’m not that kind of doctor. 🤓 IMO, what is more important (to a pool player) is all the technique concerns related to the stroke, which I already cover in great detail in numerous videos under all the subtopics here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/
@victorjbarker Жыл бұрын
Great video
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thanks.
@briangc1972 Жыл бұрын
Your data proves that Myth #3 is correct. The soft time has a contact time that is 50% longer than the hard tip. 50% is a large increase. You are focused on actual time elapsed, but when making comparisons, it is important to look at the percentage differences.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
A soft tip stays in contact longer, but this is unimportant to the action of the shot per the explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@briangc1972 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards I think most pro players would disagree with your assessment. I know several pro players have YT videos discussing their choice of tips. If they could not differentiate a difference in the outcome of the shots, if the choice of tip did not effect their consistency, they certainly would not be particular in their choice of tip. Darren Appleton specifically prefers the Sniper tip even though they are not a sponsor of him.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I disagree with "most." Many pro players prefer hard tips for all the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Some prefer soft tips because soft tips sometimes hold chalk better, because they give a softer and less noisy hit, and because it might be easier to control finesse shots (since the hit is less efficient, giving less CB speed for a given stroke).
@ammoalamo6485 Жыл бұрын
Alan Hopkins has been a champion pool player despite a stabbing stroke. This research br Dr Dave et al shows why his stabbing stroke produced results as good as other champion pool players with smooth strokes - the CB to OB duration is so brief that the good results come only from a chalked tip hitting the desired spot on the OB while the cue is aiming in the proper direction. I have instructional videos by Freddie "The Beard" Bentivigna on Banking. He taught that certain shots required a firm, or sometimes a loose, grip on the cue. Dave disproves that. But Freddy also taught what he called using a "dead level cue" which probably is a good stroke to master - though 'level' is not possible for most shots, because the rail clearance requires at least a bit of downward angle on the cue.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Good point. A stabbing stroke is not the best approach for most people, but it can be mastered by some.
@fixitrod4969 Жыл бұрын
This is great, thank you. Have you studied the affect of surface area contact. Maybe, the affects people describe with a softer tip aren't contact time, but surface contact area? Or, maybe the two work together enough thatf a pro can tell the diffrence between a soft and hard tip when it comes to spin or other claimed affects.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
There are some performance-related differences between soft and hard tips. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@daleunroe6074 Жыл бұрын
love the slo mo views
@mattbrubaker469 Жыл бұрын
On the CB slide portion of the video you talk about how the tip "grabs the CB and how it deforms". Wouldn't that be the result of using a soft tip? If the tip takes on the shape on the cue ball when struck and expands back out, it will definitely give the tip more contact time on the cue ball. Is it me, or is the 1st myth and last myth kind of contradicting?
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
The tip grabs the ball equally well with a hard or soft tip. A soft tip stays in contact longer, but this is unimportant to the action of the shot per the explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@honytse2 Ай бұрын
Question for Dr. Dave. 2 scenarios, if the grip is stronger versus weak/ no grip power at all, with the same cue speed hitting the cue ball, would the stronger grip gives longer impact time which results in more reaction and power transferred into the cue ball from the cue? Assumping all the other factors staying the same - i.e. speed, cue weight, and all that
@DrDaveBilliards Ай бұрын
See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/light-vs-tight/
@hughsmith4336 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing this. very interesting. One additional factor that would be interesting to understand would be how contact area of the cue tip to the ball affects the cue ball response and how cue tip hardness in turn affects surface area contact. It would seem intuitive that softer tip creates a greater surface area contact but slow mo evidence and measurement would be fascinating. Does contact area make a real difference?
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
A softer tip definitely has a larger "contact patch" size, but it is mostly unimportant. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@robertnoonan2992 Жыл бұрын
Venom begs to differ he says his bending the cue into the table is what gives his extra draw power plus his body english. You should super slow motion him.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
It is not the bending of the shaft after the hit that gives the power, it is the long, complete, and relaxed acceleration into the CB with a low tip position that creates good draw action and causes the tip to finish into the table with complete follow through (causing the shaft to bend). See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/ Enjoy!
@vincentcoppola9832 Жыл бұрын
It would be interesting, and possibly settle some of the questions raised in these comments, to see cue stick speed graphs for different strokes - strokes with too tight a grip, stokes with long follow through, and strokes with short follow through.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I think I already cover all these things fairly well here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/ and here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/ and here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/light-vs-tight/ Check it out.
@tricastlgs 4 ай бұрын
I need to see you tell people that titanium ferrules are also a gimmick. Impossible physically to affect the shot
@DrDaveBilliards 4 ай бұрын
Actually, if it is lighter than the ferrule it is replacing, that would decrease CB deflection: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/endmass and lower CB deflection has potential advantages: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/
@jasonrobichaud8211 Жыл бұрын
Curious if any videos exist on new CF deflection test with cheap light balls and new slippery cloth. Played an event recently and found light CB was deflecting off aiming line causing some missed shots. I would love to see cheap vs expensive balls and new vs old cloth testing
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I've done some CF shaft testing in the videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/carbon/ Slippery cloth and polished balls definitely increase CB deflection by delaying swerve. One always need to be able to adjust to conditions. There are many effects you need to be aware of when aiming with sidespin, per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/
@barryzeeberg3672 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the excellent analysis. Do you have similar one for cue ball impacting object ball in slow motion, showing if there is any elastic or inelastic deformations, and how spin on the cue ball is transferred to the motion of the object ball?
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Ball collisions occur much faster. I have a video and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/ball/contact-time/
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I have lots of stuff concerning spin transfer to the OB here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/spin-transfer/ Enjoy!
@barryzeeberg3672 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you, those very very good.
@jeffren70 Жыл бұрын
Thanks. It would be interesting to see the graph of cue speed for a light and heavier stick.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Agreed. I would think the shapes would be similar; although the lighter cue would obviously require more speed to get the same CB speed.
@jeffren70 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards Maybe not since the CB leaves so quickly. I would expect less acceleration loss after contact with a heavier cue though.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@jeffren70 If you are really curious about this, see my "TP A.30 - The effects of cue tip offset, cue weight, and cue speed on cue ball speed and spin" analysis here: billiards.colostate.edu/technical_proofs/new/TP_A-30.pdf You don't need to know all the math and physics to scan through for the conclusions.
@valad08 Жыл бұрын
Great video but wrong conclusions imho, tip hardness makes up to 50-100% change, can't be neglected. If it didn't matter why not just play with phenolic all the time)
@jamesdavis8731 Жыл бұрын
Yes, the conclusions made here don't make sense in some cases.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Explanations supporting my statements can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@jan.kowalski Жыл бұрын
Not only that - he calculates all as a physics of stiff body yet, even in video, there is a visible additional spring force.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@jan.kowalski A soft tip does deform more and stay in contact longer with a lower peak force (but still a very small interval of time), but this is unimportant to the action of the shot based on the detailed explanations here (and at the links on the page): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@ammoalamo6485 Жыл бұрын
Just because Ronnie Allen could play winning pool one-handed does not mean I will suddenly improve my game by switching to one-hand pool shots. The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it might be right, or wrong, but we can never know for sure until some basic elements of the scientific method are introduced. Dr Dave has been introducing the science of pool for many years, and has a pretty good track record. I for one thank him for his efforts, and also thank those who assist and carry on his work.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the supportive comment.
@ehsnils Жыл бұрын
This also shows why using chalk is useful. It's not just a traditional thing.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Chalk is not just "useful" ... it is entirely necessary.
@cj-ef1rp Жыл бұрын
It would be valuable to know does the shape of a cue tip effect the duration of cue ball contact? There are many “opinions” that a flatter tip profile imparts less spin and maintains contact longer. True or not?
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I don’t think tip shape or hardness limit the amount of spin that can be applied. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/ and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@keyboardkevin5949 Жыл бұрын
Hi, what does tip size determine. How does it affect performance. Such as 13mm, 12.50mm, 12.25mm, etc. Is it true that the larger the tip, the more lee way for accuracy, the small the tip the more accurate you have to be but can produce more spin? And lastly what size do you prefer? Thanks
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/ I don't have a strong preference. I used a 11.75mm Z-2 for many years. Now I have a 12.4mm Revo.
@raymondgirardtan4978 Жыл бұрын
Corollary to the first two busted myths, I hope you can do a video on why follow through seems to matter. That would settle a decades-long argument I've had with some pool friends.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I cover this topic here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/
@raymondgirardtan4978 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks for the link!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@raymondgirardtan4978 You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
@raymondgirardtan4978 Жыл бұрын
😆
@rocketceo Жыл бұрын
Excellent, as usual; your impact on our game from technical study is legendary. I did believe Myth 1 for many earlier decades, but this video evidence is clear. As an artistic billiards player, there seemed no other explanation for the FACT that there are some shots (e.g., extreme bend) that seemingly cannot be made without a VERY long follow-through (a foot or more). I guess the answer must be that such a stroke causes increased acceleration before contact, and avoids any deceleration before contact. It's still a puzzle though, as one would think an 8" follow-through could accomplish both those objectives, but it can't (or at least I can't; with 8" I don't get the extreme action, with 12-14" I do). I have seen some players though who could get unbelievable action with only a medium follow-through -- I guess they're just slamming on the brakes immediately after contact, or their muscle-memory and fast-twitch muscles are better/faster than us mere humans). These observations are still hard to sit happily with the Myth 1 clip.
@TimTimTomTom Жыл бұрын
I'm not sure that I really agree with all of the conclusions from this video. Though the contact time is very short, a softer tip staying in contact for double the time as a break tip would seemingly have an impact on the shot. See massey shots, and why guys go for hard tips on them. Because the ball jumps off the tip cleanly, so you don't double impact the cb. One way to think of it is like rifle ballistics. The rifling twist of a given barrel, and barrel length will have extreme influences over the ballistics of a bullet fired through that barrel. This is verifiable information, that has been repeatedly reproduced.
@brendanvu1983 Жыл бұрын
It's doubled, but the time is in milliseconds so it's negligible. We can't even perceive that difference in time
@rocketceo Жыл бұрын
@@TimTimTomTom The issues in this video are VERY subtle and technical, and I like to think that someone with a Ph.D. and decades of experience in physics can shed some meaningful light on those subtleties. Pool players as a lot have ingrained "truisms," that we think we know, because we've thought it for years. We then tend to confirm this bias by only listening to, or agreeing with, those things that confirm what we already think. Open your mind to what Dr. Dave says, and follow the evidence of the super slo-mo video. In the hundreds of "new insights" Dr. Dave has offered to our game over many years, I only stubbornly disagree with one (and I'm probably wrong about that). Also, hard tips aren't used for breaking or massé shots to avoid a double hit -- that's not a problem in either. Harder tips primarily have a greater rebound speed. That's often good for break shots, as well as for massé shots, where it's sometimes hard to gain enough speed for multiple rails with a vertical stroke.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
A complete and long follow through is an indicator of a smooth, relaxed, and accelerating stroke with lots of cue speed into the CB. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/
@jamesdavis8731 Жыл бұрын
@@brendanvu1983 not true. When you are talking about differences of 50%, that is not something to ignore. And almost anyone that has gone from a harder tip to a softer tip says they get more action on the cue ball.
@craigmartin1426 Жыл бұрын
I’m sorry but more than a 40 percent increase in duration of contact is a significant difference. Sure the amount of time is really small but it’s completely relative
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
For explanations for why longer contact times are not important (at that level), see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@craigmartin1426 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks 🙏. Ya when I made the other comment I was busy and intended to read the link you shared.
@craigmartin1426 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards huh interesting.
@ashmare Жыл бұрын
Is Myth 1 only busted for a center ball hit, since the footage used in that section was only center ball hits? My intuition is telling me for draw/follow/side shots, this would maybe show different results. Since you wouldn't be hitting center of mass, it 'seems' the cueball would not leave the tip as quickly as a center ball hit at the same speed, as the energy would be divided between the forward motion and the rotation. But it's just an intuition, since I know zero about physics.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
True. Off-center hits will have slightly different contact times.
@dimasprajoko 6 ай бұрын
Thanks for the footage, it does show that softer tip have more contact area into cb during hit although the contact time difference is negligible, the contact area is not, does that area adds more grip to cb? Even if it does, it most likely not much, but in this game, one hair can make a shot or miss a whole game
@DrDaveBilliards 6 ай бұрын
See the “contact patch” paragraph near the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@NoVowel Жыл бұрын
I looked through your videos... may have missed it. Have you done a video on nickle vs dime radius? Would be nice to see a closeup slow motion of how much difference there is in cue ball contact...especially with only a millisecond of actual contact. Which is better?
@telinoz1975 Жыл бұрын
Second that request. Also interested in seeing a flatish tip as well.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I have lots of info on tip size and shape effects here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/
@BROU-bb2uc Жыл бұрын
A friend told me nickel for trust dime for confidence.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@BROU-bb2uc It really doesn't matter much per the info and illustrations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/
@Kogacarlo Жыл бұрын
Very good!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@BinhNguyen-tf2mj Жыл бұрын
Can you explain then why there is punch stroke where you can instantly draw the cue ball back and with follow through the cue ball can go a bit to the side and then draw back?
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Sorry, but I don't understand your question and how it relates to my video. One way to draw the CB back quickly is described and demonstrated here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/quick/ And both draw and follow are possible with a very short stroke using some of the techniques here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/double-hit/
@brainfloss9710 Жыл бұрын
Not allowed to jump the cue ball over an obstacle ball? Since when? Who taught me how to play pool. I've only ever played a few dozen games in my life, but never even heard anybody say such a things. If true, this blows my mind.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
You are allowed to jump over an obstacle ball, but not with an illegal "scoop" shot: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/scoop/
@ivanmcpcpherson2407 Жыл бұрын
When you play a jump shot, does the cueball get out of the way in time to avoid a secondary hit with the tip?
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Yes. If you search or scan for "jump shot" on this page, you can find slo-mo videos showing that this is the case: billiards.colostate.edu/high-speed-video/
@ronalddurham9018 Жыл бұрын
Let's say that I hit with a nickle or dime radius tip. Would hitting with "side spin/english" have any effect on the time the tip stays on the cue ball, compared to hitting straight on?
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I suspect there would be small differences, but not of any important consequences. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/
@beercanbrian1880 Жыл бұрын
Very interesting. I immediately noticed the difference in the 'chalk explosion' between your videos and the Austrian and Russian videos. Looks like the Austrian and Russian videos likely used Master chalk which leaves a dusty mess. Seems obvious your videos were not using Master chalk distinguished by the almost imperceptible chalk explosion at tip contact. I use Taom pyro chalk which isn't a 'dusty' chalk instead leaving very small chunks of chalk on my table. (9ft Gold Crown) What a mess the house cue was. 😁
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
It is partly the chalk and partly the lighting.
@haydenwalton2766 Жыл бұрын
Some of the most interesting analysis I've seen in cue sports. the footage / data speak for themself, but the conclusions may be a little off. differences in contact time between tip and cueball, even if in the thousandths of a second make a significant difference. not only on the amount of side (english) you can achieve but also how hard you have to hit the ball to achieve this side (timing of cue stroke, or touch). liked the chart showing cue speed with distance travelled forward. would love the see the different curves from different players. particularly from someone who is considered to have excellent timing. this for me, (along with the line of the delivered cue) is one of the most important aspects of the game. and, moreover, the most under appreciated and misunderstood aspect of the game.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Explanations for why the contact-time differences are unimportant can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Concerning good stroke timing and typical acceleration curves, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/good-timing/ and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/
@haydenwalton2766 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks, keen to check them out
@haydenwalton2766 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards all very interesting information, but I think there is much misinformation and some irrelevant information contained. prob. to complex to address in this formate. here's a few thoughts though : * firstly it should be stated - good timing on a stroke is not always needed ie potting a ball with soft follow through. * but when required ie. a soft screw shot with maximum work on the cue ball to obtain position. in this instance - I believe that the contact point (tip on cue ball) would be much further back on the curve from your graph ie. still accelerating, and importantly would also, I believe, result in maximum contact TIME between tip and cue ball. resulting in more side (english) on the cue ball, and at a lower speed. I wonder, has this analysis been done ? * you claim that we are only talking thousandths of seconds. but your analysis showed that soft tips have double the contact time than harder tips. all things being equal. you dismiss this fact as of little or no consequence too lightly ! double the time is double the time. it may be a very significant difference in outcome. as you alluded to from players opinions. has this been analysed ? in summary - my guess / judgement / experience is that the curve of a perfectly timed shot ie. max work on cue ball at min speed would show a contact point before any flattening of the curve. furthermore, and most importantly, would show a less steep contact time period ie. a longer contact period. resulting in more work on the cue ball. I'd be interested in people's thoughts on all this.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@haydenwalton2766 A soft tip has different hit efficiency, feel/sound, contact-patch size, and contact time, but for a given tip offset and CB speed, there is no difference in the action of the shot (e.g., CB spin) for a hard vs. soft tip per the explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@haydenwalton2766 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards dave, the differences in tips is not the point I'm trying to make here, as interesting as that is itself. my main point is in relation to the timing of the hit. and the analysis of differently timed strokes. in relation to different amounts of work one can get on a cue ball
@mosesng6050 Жыл бұрын
Which is recommended, the dime, or the nickel shaper? The tip I’m using is a Kamui Clear Medium (which has wore down to almost ferrule point).
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
It doesn't really matter much, per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/
@timcodes 9 ай бұрын
If only people can stop thinking that a longer follow through generates more power or spin on the shot, or maybe better cueball control. This is a myth that's commonly propagated by some snooker players like Stephen Lee who claimed that a player must have a very long follow through to be able to generate cue ball spin. Even Ronnie O'Sullivan has a long follow through and people attribute this to his ability to play snooker as good as he's been. There are many snooker players who are able to generate massive amounts of cue power and spin without an exaggerated follow through such as Judd Trump and Neil Robertson. Just watch those guys play and you'll know what I meant. This is a very good conclusive evidence--based video which if you're someone looking to improve your game in billiards should take advantage of and understand how to work on your technique better to achieve consistency.
@DrDaveBilliards 9 ай бұрын
Well stated. Power comes from good acceleration into the ball. An exaggerated follow through is definitely not necessary. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/acceleration/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/elbow-drop/
@gingerjoe8835 Жыл бұрын
How can you say that half contact time has no effect because the numbers are so small? It’s all about scale, the numbers still have measured separations. There’s a clear difference between hardness. Logic like that brings into question the whole video.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
A soft tip has different hit efficiency, feel/sound, contact-patch size, and contact time, but for a given tip offset and CB speed, there is no difference in the action of the shot (e.g., CB spin) for a hard vs. soft tip per the explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@gtrmusic69 Жыл бұрын
The only thing missing is the equipment used to swing the the stick in the slow motion videos. Surely that was not done by a human being. It would immediately null out all the numbers in the Tip/Speed chart. Especially the Slow vs Fast cue speeds.
@bassinbilliards6279 Жыл бұрын
Doesn't matter anyway. We're talking 1000s of a second difference. Nobody can judge that with the naked eye
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
If you do enough trials and only keep the good ones (where the CB travels the target distance), and if the results are consistent, there is nothing wrong with the reliability of the data. That’s what we did.
@vyacheslavboyko6114 Жыл бұрын
Hay Dave, thx for the Videos. I Have ove myth/question. Look at the graph at 1:33. According to the graph the ball is hit with constant speed = Zero acceleration. Dv/ dt = 0. The mystery is about if one can increase the time of tip contact if dv/dt is non Zero. So, if one strikes the ball with the speed that is found in the graph at 1:33 for x value (cue distance = 4) equal to approx 4.2. At that x Value dv/dt is clearly not Zero, hence the acceleration is non Zero and therefore one should get longer contact time; question mark. 🤔
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Even if accelerating into the CB created different contact times, the differences would be unimportant per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/good-timing/ But most good players reach max speed at the CB; otherwise, the acceleration has bad timing (is too late) and is not useful.
@bluesharkmadness7101 Жыл бұрын
I used to play with soft tip believing it get more spin. After changing to hard tip, I now know that it is not true at all. The only difference I found was how the shots would feel i.e. soft tip feels dampen/springy upon contact and hard tip feels like a truck hitting a car. Other than that, there are slight differences to CB throw off on swerve shots. Would be nice if there is a new type of cue tip that allows us to get rid of chalk though.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
A chalk-less tip would be awesome, and very profitable (except for the chalk companies).
@RobertLeBlancPhoto Жыл бұрын
What are the effects when cloth has a lot of chalk dust buildup on it? Is there more or less speed? Is there more or less effect with english?
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Dirty cloth plays slower and spin takes more on the cushions.
@jovancicevski5937 Жыл бұрын
Is there a channel that explains darts in this detail and fashion? This is amazing work. We need more channels like this.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Sorry, but I don't know. I'm not a dart player.
@KTHKUHNKK Жыл бұрын
Superb
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@KTHKUHNKK Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards U. Got it Now that I am 71 years old with macular degeneration. It's amazing to see all these shooters and how good they are. I used to be fair in my day, mainly on bar room tables. But now life is changed. We sure do get old fast. Keith Kuhn KK Motion Pictures On KZfaq also
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
I'm sorry to hear about the macular degeneration. Bummer.
@KTHKUHNKK Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks Dave. Pool is a. Beautiful Game
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Agreed. Downright gorgeous.
@hr.8580 Жыл бұрын
Thanks, and i curious to know, if its 1ms impact, why is follow thru stroke so important? As this would conclude that basicly you just need to deliver power to some point on CB and basicly stop cue right there?
@jocu475 Жыл бұрын
The only thing that matters is tip contact point and speed. That’s it. Literally no other things matter. How you get there doesn’t matter.
@richardandrews1806 Жыл бұрын
The follow-through is the result of good fundamentals that allow the player to consistently return the tip to the desired spot on the cue ball with the desired speed. Without the proper follow-through, there is a tendency to tense up, start slowing down, and move offline prior to contact.
@fixitrod4969 Жыл бұрын
Follow-through is a movement used in almost all physical sports to assist in consistency and creating a repeatable process.
@cj-ef1rp Жыл бұрын
Follow-thru is important and does matter. In fact during this video the graph depicting cue speed tells the tale. The cue should be accelerating to its maximum speed just prior to contact, contact the cue and lose speed, then recover its forward momentum until the stroke length depletes the stroke speed. If you don’t follow through, then you are “hitting” the cue ball no not stroking. This will pocket a ball, but like in baseball, swinging through the impact delivers a more precise and thorough strike on a ball. Same in golf. You don’t see pros stopping at impact once the golf is struck. Pool is about. “Stroke” not a “hit”. Without the follow through, you get a “hit” and a deceleration of the cue at impact.
@RichardsWorld Жыл бұрын
I think it's part of good form for delivery to a straight stroke giving more consistent hit speeds and able to consistently hitting your target. Some people just poke or jab at the cue ball and are probably less consistent. Look at how a beginner strokes vs a pro. No way the amateur can be consistent. Some pros do have awkward strokes and styles, but can do that consistently. Willie Mosconi and Keith McGready had sidearm strokes, but were obviously very good. Allen Hopkins was winning at high levels for awhile, but has a terrible stroke. I imagine if you use your terrible stroke, but have practiced and played for many years with it, you could still become very good.
@howlinmad03 Жыл бұрын
Wow. As someone who is not an avid billiard player (though I enjoy it when I get a chance), it is interesting to see people's reaction to this. It seems there are so many factors to consider on the question of cue tip softness. At the moment, I am not convinced either way, but I am assuming Dr. Dave did actually test the spin of the balls hit with the different tips, right? If so, then I think I would side with him on this issue. However, I do love soft tipped cues. My guess is that, beyond the psychological issue, there are many factors in the real world that can make a difference that it would be hard to make a determination based on the tip alone. Are you miscueing? Are you really hitting the CB in the same location? Are you hitting with the same speed? Or are you just more confident? However, since the softer tips do have more contact area, would this be more forgiving, in terms of the player's aim?
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
If you want to be better convinced, see the follow-up videos and detailed explanations (with supporting links) here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@V9ball Жыл бұрын
Awesome stuff as usual, Dr. Dave. I'd argue that a soft tip still stays in contact about 50% longer than a hard one, even though the absolute value is in millisecond rage. Not sure we can dismiss that. A soft tip appears to impart more spin than a hard one - at least that's how it feels to me. Or it that too a misconception? :)
@TimZ007 Жыл бұрын
Likely more deflection too. Longer contact time more time to push cueball off course. I pocket firm cuts with outside better with a harder tip. Problem is the slow shot have a more chance for miscue with a hard tip. Try running a rack with your break cue. Results are surprisingly good.
@jamesdavis8731 Жыл бұрын
Yes. I think it is hard to ignore that a soft tip stays in contact longer. A few months ago I went to a softer tip with the exact same cue. There is no doubt that the soft tip puts more spin on the ball for me. In fact, a friend of mine used my cue BEFORE I changed the tip, and then a few months later he was using my cue again and said "wow, I am getting a lot more action today." I had not told him the tip had been changed. I then told him, and he was surprised it made a noticeable difference.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
A soft tip does not impart more spin. For more info, see the explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@chili015 Жыл бұрын
@jamesdavis8731 - Perception isn't always reality. For instance, I can get the exact same amount of draw distance with both my Kamui super-soft tip on my playing cue and my phenolic tip on my break cue. Tip hardness doesn't actually affect the amount of spin that can be generated. There are a few factors that might be contributing to the more action you're seeing... the softer tip might have a better dime shape than your harder tip did. Your softer tip might also be retaining a good layer of chalk more than your hard tip was. It's also possible your softer tip has a slightly smaller diameter. These would certainly allow for cleaner hits towards the outer areas of the cue ball, thus producing more spin.
@V9ball Жыл бұрын
Interesting. So leaving the "feelings" aside, there should be no reason to use a soft tip:). From my experience, soft tips appear to generate more spins on soft shots, but less spin on hard shots compared to hard tips. (as explained in Dave's link).
@zemermuzik1252 Жыл бұрын
Dear Doctor Dave, on the fourth myth, at 4:21, did you mean "noticeable effect" as you said? Or "No noticeable effect" as is implied by your explanation? Thanks for all the great videos!!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Good catch. I meant to say "no noticeable effect."
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
FYI, I have a "CORRECTION" in the video description and pinned comment.
@ethanletzer3507 Жыл бұрын
So interesting!!! I mean Kamui seems to disagree with the tip grip by hardness but kinda hard to argue with science
@jamesdavis8731 Жыл бұрын
This is not definitive. This just measures contact time, not the surface area. My experience is that a softer tip imparts more spin on the cue ball, and many people agree. I don't care one way or another to be honest, but when I went to a softer tip I got more spin on the ball and a friend, who did not know I had changed my tip, said the same thing when he used my cue.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Explanations for why a softer tip cannot apply more spin can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@ethanletzer3507 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards Dr Dave thank you for bringing science to the pool world!!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
@Amor1990 10 ай бұрын
I have played enough to know I get better spin with a soft tip vs a hard tip
@DrDaveBilliards 10 ай бұрын
Many players with lots of experience think this. Any many don't. For more info, see the videos and info in the "Can a softer tip put more spin on the ball?" section here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@DrDaveBilliards 9 ай бұрын
@@tt-tk9076 All the videos and info on this topic can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@eddiesmurfy 11 ай бұрын
In your "Tip Contact Time" portion of the video you are doing the testing using a tip that is very low. I believe the results would be different if you use a new soft or SS tip. The tip compression time has to change things in this regard, right?
@DrDaveBilliards 11 ай бұрын
You are correct. A taller soft tip plays even softer.
@melikepool4399 Жыл бұрын
Another great video! Thank you for informing us!
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Thank you, and you're welcome!
@heginschristianstrong7707 Жыл бұрын
If the tip contact time is so minimal and the ball is gone, then that tells me that a good follow through means absolutely nothing. Only thing that would matter is tip placement and speed at impact. That would explain why players like Allen Hopkins and Alex Pagulayan are so effective in spite of their punch strokes.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
A follow-through is usually an indicator of a good stroke. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/ Although, with enough practice, almost any technique can be mastered. However, most people will develop and improve faster with recommended "best practices" technique: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/
@heginschristianstrong7707 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards thank you Sir.
@victors3803 Жыл бұрын
Beautiful video but with wrong conclusion. 1,9ms shouldn’t be considered long or short time. It is what it is. That’s the time of the contact that we have in this game. And it is wrong to compare that time with the time that a football players leg touches the ball, or the golf stick touches the golf ball, calling it long or short. What matters - is the fact that there is 25%difference between 1,9 and 1,5 on your picture. And that explains a lot. The fact, that you can do screw backs in this game itself means that your tip moves the ball. Otherwise the cueball would always jump, because the vector of force is directed from the point of contact through the center of the cue ball, that is to the ceiling. And longer the contact you have, more accurate the shot and stronger the screw back you will get. I don’t to write a lot, no one will read anyway. But i don’t think that someone will be able to repeat what is done here with a break cue. But if in next 100 years someone reproduces it, then i would suggest him to take a steel cue with a steel tip and try again. With a steel tip you will have almost 100% of difference in a time of contact in comparison even with a break cue. Instead of 0,8 Ms you will have 0,00008 Ms. Feel the difference! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hLl0o7mGq7CRZ2g.html
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
For explanations for why longer contact time does not result in more spin, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ BTW, contact times with draw shots are not much longer than with center-ball-hit shots, still in the 1-2ms range. More examples can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/high-speed-video/
@snookerhand Жыл бұрын
I like your explanation, but you will never sway Dr. Dave. I respect Dr. Dave and he serves the pool world admirably -- far beyond any other "teacher." Once in a while a tutorial will come along, seemingly controversial to many. I humbly tried it once but got a "smack" from the usual regurgitated trope. The feel of the player in his stroke and his consciousness are wrapped up as one intrinsically in his execution, and he can feel the the subtle vibrations in his arm -- just how he did.
@brianboyer6801 Жыл бұрын
Bob Jewett's studies. He did extensive studies with this. Bob Byrnes says a hard tip applies more English. I have always followed this rule bc physics.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
The work Bob did with the Jacksonville Project is fully documented via the resources here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/video/jacksonville-project/ I also prefer a hard tip for the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@brianboyer6801 Жыл бұрын
@DrDaveBilliards all great information in the links provided and in the video you posted. I have seen the Jacksonville Project videos and have the documentation stashed away somewhere. Good stuff 👍🏻
@longvu59 Жыл бұрын
I think if you say that the tip contact with cue ball varies only for a very small amount of time, meaning that has no effect on spin, is simply not true. pool is not even a game of milliseconds, millimeters, but a game of even fractions of those. “Having little effect” does not mean no effect, and in pool, it makes a world of difference.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
For explanations of why many claims about tip hardness and spin are wrong, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
@joulupukki1607 Жыл бұрын
Are you seriously trying to teach drdave about billiard😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@longvu59 Жыл бұрын
@@joulupukki1607 you've never been to an academic or professional setting where someone presents their findings, and other ppl ask questions or provide opinions and the conversation goes back and forth, have you?
@longvu59 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks, I'll take a look
@streetbrown8529 Жыл бұрын
That's what I was thinking... It may not stay in contact for a long time, but judging from the slo mo videos, it makes a huge difference in spin. Edit: after checking out Dr. Dave's link, I guess the only reason it makes more spin is because you can hit further away from center ball without a miscue.
@zaidrashid8674 Жыл бұрын
But this raises a question why we need follow throw if the contact is that small..
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/follow-through/
@cziffra1980 Жыл бұрын
What would be a very important experiment is if someone could program a robot that cues the same every time (in terms of angle), but reaches the speed in different ways. I don't believe you would see the same energy transfer if a cue coasts at constant speed into the cueball vs when the same speed is being reached only just as the contact occurs. Even if the latter goes on to be decelerated too, I still believe that you would get slightly longer contact and better energy transfer due to lowering of the deceleration. It's a big difference when something still has an active input force, vs when it only coasts on momentum. I don't believe that it's only illusion that great players can get huge amounts of power and spin from a simple and slower looking stroke than a lesser player, or that it is only about an input speed. If there's a slight illusion, I think it's simply that well timed shots save the maximum speed and active force input for the instant of collision (thus looking slower overall, even if the contact speed is the same). However, I don't believe it's an illusion that you can do more with timed acceleration than coasting at the highest speed.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Good stroke "timing" is smoothly accelerating into the ball, reaching maximum speed with no deceleration before contact. This is what good players do to make the speed, spin, and power look effortless. For more info, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/good-timing/
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
BTW, your proposed robot experiment would be interesting, but robot testing is not always a good substitute for some of the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/
@cziffra1980 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards what explanation is there behind this being the best compared to a constant speed stroke, say? Surely it has something to do with contact if there's a distinction? It's always tricky with humans because a change of pacing could also ruin something else (such as straight cueing) for associated reasons. But why would constant speed be different from the paced stroke, if we only consider contact speed and assume contact time is unchanged? I definitely believe it matters how something is paced and deceleration is certainly bad. However, I think the reason deceleration at contact is a problem is that it shortens contact time erratically and unpredictably. I'm open to the possibility of a sweet spot where you stop the active acceleration marginally prior to contact, but I'm not so convinced of a reason why active acceleration into contact wouldn't add more still for a power shot.
@cziffra1980 Жыл бұрын
@@DrDaveBilliards the problems detailed in the experiment with robot cueing surely points to how much more we have to consider than the speed at contact? Surely things like contact time are what would have altered the results, in causing the problems with using the robot? To me, it only shows how much more there is than a contact speed.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
@@cziffra1980 I don't think acceleration or deceleration at contact changes contact time significantly, if at all. And even it if did, this would be unimportant based on the explanations on the resources pages (and supporting links) I have provided.
@hesper3 Жыл бұрын
謝謝您的影片.讓我知道miscue其實是"連擊"犯規
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
Even though miscues involve sliding contact and secondary contact, they are not considered fouls under the WPA "official rules of pool" unless they are intentional. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/miscue/
@williammcdowell3718 Жыл бұрын
So, all shots are push shots, it is just the amount of time that the cue tip is on the cue ball.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
With a “push shot,” the tip is in contact with the CB more than a thousand times longer than with a legal shot!
@kwasg3 Жыл бұрын
Its one thing to measure the differences of what's happening, its another to conclude they are insignificant, which you have a bad habit of doing. That is incorrect.
@DrDaveBilliards Жыл бұрын
If you want to see convincing proof and detailed explanations, see the follow-up videos, info, and links here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/
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