Cutting AMD Coolers Open & Flat vs. Vertical CPU Cooler Benchmarks

Рет қаралды 349,825

4 жыл бұрын

In this video, we dive deep on how heatpipes work, gravity vs. capillary action for CPU coolers (test bench flat vs. vertical and upside-down).
Sponsor: Get 10% off Squarespace purchases (geni.us/BqEpf)
Article: We are publishing the article on a ~1 day delay to allow the video to breathe first. In the meantime, some scientific sources are below. Our previous heatpipe orientation article for Zen 2 chiplets is live, though, and you can find that video here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hZeHes-B166YeYk.html
In this video, we're deep-diving on several important factors of how heatpipes work. For years, viewers have asked us if CPU cooler orientation matters, typically wondering whether a flat test bench was representative of a standard "vertical" orientation (e.g. in a PC case), often referencing gravity, despite the fact that capillary action can work in opposition to gravity. Some scientific research has shown, as noted in the video, that gravity and orientation or angle of heatpipes can affect performance, but that research is in use cases and deployments outside of computer hardware. We'll walk through heatpipe manufacturing, research from other industries (like aeronautics and space), internals and cross-sections of heatpipes, and more. This features the AMD Wraith stock cooler, Deepcool GamerStorm Assassin III cooler, and Noctua NH-D15 (with internals of a Thermaltake Contac 12).
Watch our video on how copper heatpipes are made: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d6pdZ7p83Kmllnk.html
Find the Noctua NH-D15 on Amazon: geni.us/3lgHOO0
And the Deepcool Assassin III on Amazon (but maybe wait for a follow-up): geni.us/tCjPT
The best way to support our work is through our store: store.gamersnexus.net/
Like our content? Please consider becoming our Patron to support us: www.patreon.com/gamersnexus
Additional scientific papers and sources that you may find interesting:
- www.enertron-inc.com/products/designing-with-heat-pipe/
- www.qats.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Qpedia_Aug09_How_wicks_and_orientation_affect_a_heat_pipes_performance.pdf
- www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/news/heat_pipes.html
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Host, Editorial, Testing: steve Burke
Editorial, Testing: Jake Henderson
Video: Keegan Gallick, Andrew Coleman

Пікірлер: 728

@GamersNexus 4 жыл бұрын

Find our video on how heatpipes are made here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d6pdZ7p83Kmllnk.html We did a different video on the distantly related topic of heatpipe orientation on Zen 2 chiplets: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hZeHes-B166YeYk.html

@EyesOfByes 4 жыл бұрын

What is the minimum temp in celsius that a heatpipe is effective? For example, If I pull cold arctic winter air through the cooler, at what temp does the benifit stop? (so to say. excuse my grammar. Aije ämm fråm Sviiidänn 🇸🇪)

@brandoneich2412 4 жыл бұрын

Glad to see you tried a direct contact heat pipe cooler. I can't even imagine how much work went into this! Thank you for all you do. One thing that still makes me wonder is if the orientation of direct contact heat pipes matter is: if the heatpipes are lined up parallel or perpendicular with die would that change performance? I remember you mentioning in the previous video that it shouldn't matter due to the IHS and the coldplate, but in this instance there would be no coldplate. (I think testing with a non-soldered vs soldered chip would bring different results due to the thermal transfer properties from both. (for something with multiple chiplets this might not matter much if all, and the same could be said for single chiplet style too) but I'm thinking more specifically of intel's more "traditional", if you will,(or more common) single chiplet like dies. Perhaps it's not worth the time to consider, but if it is it would make for another very interesting and very educational video. (Although given your results thus far... The likeliness of any meaningful change is quite slim to non-existent). Just a thought and thank you again for all your hard work!! Have a happy new years!

@brandoneich2412 4 жыл бұрын

@@newgame2day I'd like to see LTT try something like this. *Sarcastic* (not to bash on LTT, because that are great! But I don't think they would go nearly as in depth or even take something like this on. Although they have done some tests(like their positive/negative/neutral air pressure test) that are pretty interesting, I just don't believe their audience would appreciate, or care as much about something like this... I could be wrong, and would love to see it happen, but for a channel that big, and with so many other things going on, I just don't foresee them doing this topic... But I guess that's part of the charm that is Gamers Nexus they are willing to cater more to deep dive in odd topics such as *heat pipe orientation*) :)

@Zarcondeegrissom 4 жыл бұрын

I will say, the results are somewhat counterintuitive, especially if you ever actually tried that wicking experiment. wicking from one cup to another is so incredibly slow, it is surprising wicking alone can actually move enough coolant. Great vid Steve and crew. B)

@Zarcondeegrissom 4 жыл бұрын

Sc0ttishGamer88 Sublimation only works so long as you have enough coolant to Subliment for the duration of the mission. Craft like New Horizons and SOHO are a tad beyond that mission time capacity.

@shibasss 4 жыл бұрын

The conclusion might seem boring, but thank you for actually taking the time to test this as thoroughly as possible.

@ramheyhey 4 жыл бұрын

Or could have just looked at a heat transfer textbook...

@GamersNexus 4 жыл бұрын

@@ramheyhey Cool story. We'll just say that for any questions our viewers have: "Why don't you just read a book?" That's super helpful, right? All data that ever needs to exist to answer questions must already exist, so there's no point to contributing more.

@florianl.2441 4 жыл бұрын

@@ramheyhey Just read the Bible smh. It starts with thermodynamics in first Genesis.

@alexhaile14 4 жыл бұрын

@@GamersNexus Herein lies the often overlooked fact that just having knowledge and being able to parse it and apply it are two wildly different things!

@Lucian_Andries 4 жыл бұрын

@@florianl.2441 The bible is the flat earther's user manual to all their scientism questions... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 And it's actually true. :|

@mumar100 4 жыл бұрын

Your strictly methodical approach in tests like this is highly appreciated. When ever watching such videos from you one can take the result and use it for own builds without questioning their solidity. This is a big help as certain variables just can be put aside and focusing on the relevant parameters of the build makes work faster and leads to better results within a given time. Thanks for your great work on such basics!

@danieldc8841 4 жыл бұрын

After watching a 30 minute video of course. Would love GN:TL;DW

@Chiisai1987 4 жыл бұрын

The best reason why people should be a patreon. I could not find anything better then GN and decided to support them for 5$/month. I want to see more of detailed content after all.

@EyesOfByes 4 жыл бұрын

24:05 There are two kinds of people. The first can extrapolate from insufficient data.

@GamersNexus 4 жыл бұрын

WHAT DO THE SECOND DO?

@dualtronix4438 4 жыл бұрын

@@GamersNexus WE NEED AN ANSWER

@euly 4 жыл бұрын

This comment is so clever it bothers me

@deansigman6099 4 жыл бұрын

You win the internet today

@twistednemo 4 жыл бұрын

@@euly Seriously!

@EMETRL 4 жыл бұрын

deepcool when coming up with new heat pipe "technology": ah yes the pipe is made of pipe

@fajaradi1223 4 жыл бұрын

Naaah They're made of "tubing" You're welcome

@CrusadesOClock 4 жыл бұрын

deepcools pipes are filled with bullshit for improved cooling

@Komants1 4 жыл бұрын

@@CrusadesOClock and it works :D

@Steveindajeep 4 жыл бұрын

@@CrusadesOClock "It just works!"

@silverhawkroman 4 жыл бұрын

@@CrusadesOClock that explains why my shit floats so quickly...

@enigma4633 4 жыл бұрын

Steve: *opens his mouth* Steve's editor: *B ROLL*

@lucass.l.jacobsen2088 4 жыл бұрын

Steve: We don't have the budget to go to space Linus: We're going to space! Right after this sponsorship. Square space is a quick and easy way...

@BruceLeedar 4 жыл бұрын

@@lucass.l.jacobsen2088 Linus Media Group Martian Campus opening 2049.

@redsquirrelftw 4 жыл бұрын

@@lucass.l.jacobsen2088 I read that in his voice. lol.

@docferringer 4 жыл бұрын

@@lucass.l.jacobsen2088This just in: Linus Sebastian drops International Space Station. Out of orbit.

@DawidDoesTechStuff 4 жыл бұрын

All I can think while watching this video is: "I need a Dremel"

@desmofan1864 4 жыл бұрын

You do. They are the small scale machining equivalent of duct tape.

@DawidDoesTechStuff 4 жыл бұрын

@@desmofan1864 Yeah! They are just so useful.

@juniperburton7693 4 жыл бұрын

Same

@greggreg2458 4 жыл бұрын

Same

@TheVlad33 4 жыл бұрын

Dremel has kind of degraded in quality over the last few years, I would suggest proxxon rotary tools for much better precision instead

@robertcastiglione5995 4 жыл бұрын

Steve, you NEVER fail to amaze me with the absolute thoroughness of your tests

@StriKe_jk 4 жыл бұрын

I was always amazed how low the temps in these tests are. I finally realized those are "above ambient" so the actual numbers are like 20°C higher.

@joeoliveira1843 4 жыл бұрын

Come on guys we need to get Steve an RGB lit hot air balloon that has enough high airflow fans to send him and his crew to outer space..... we can do it!

@twistednemo 4 жыл бұрын

I am concerned about the amount of RGB needed to accomplish that.

@hetznaz7902 4 жыл бұрын

@@twistednemo prolly pretty close to what your average 12 year old PC gamer has ;)

@midnitepagan9118 4 жыл бұрын

just load it up with Xeons that'll get him to mars

@MalfunctioningAndroid 4 жыл бұрын

Hetznaz that can get you to Mars.

@dinkthesink3890 4 жыл бұрын

Lol

@tharic007 4 жыл бұрын

What an amazing explanation, really deep and thorough on how the pipes work, can't really find anything like this anywhere else, as well as the testing. You've outdone just about everyother cooler testing I've ever seen, thanks

@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 4 жыл бұрын

The copper powder is important because it serves as a threatening reminder to the heat pipe tube of what it will be made into if it doesn't behave and transfer heat well. This fear is what makes them so good at transferring thermal energy.

@CaseySexton 4 жыл бұрын

Every time I click any GN video I know I'm going to get more detailed information than I'll ever need... I love it! It saves me the hassle of looking for other videos to fill in the gaps. GN leaves no gaps.

@zodiacr 4 жыл бұрын

Omg, sooo much work involved in making this, thank you Steve and co. Happy New Year 2020!

@MrLoverThe 4 жыл бұрын

In-depth science videos like this are the reason I contribute on Patreon. No one else does anything like this and I'm happy to see it.

@genius10391 4 жыл бұрын

This was a really enjoyable episode for me! Very interesting and really happy to see that your methodology was so meticulous

@mafcarvalho 4 жыл бұрын

Respect! Thanks to GN for taking the time to test this and presenting the results. I really appreciate your effort to keep us informed! Happy New Year to everybody@GN! 🥂😎

@Noise-Bomb 4 жыл бұрын

I always amazes me how much work you guys put in to answer seemingly trivial questions to a very high degree of certainty in a very controlled and sophisticated work environment. Videos like this are a very valuable resource for all of us and I really appreciate what you guys are doing. So sincerely from the bottom of my heart - thank you GN!

@delta9k 4 жыл бұрын

Nice change of pace. Found this topic interesting. Thank you got the effort and presentation.

@TJ-vh2ps 2 жыл бұрын

Yay! Thank you for the error bars! They're missing in almost everyone else's videos and they're so important.

@granthampson5917 4 жыл бұрын

Wow! Excellent video. I'm certain alot if hours of research and testing was done. Very well explained and presented. Thanks for this!

@forestR1 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you Steve! - i asked about this a year or two ago and you answered it directly during an "ASK GN". Was great to see it revisited and fully investigated. curiosity settled for good. (and you were bang on the money back then too)

@rickymcc9072 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I really appreciate the time and trouble you go to in testing, evaluating then sharing your methodology and conclusions. IMO you are more detailed and rigorous in testing than any other KZfaq presenter, speaking about PC hardware engineering, that I have encountered. This is why I subscribed some time ago. I feel I learn more with your channel than others - even if the conclusions are often similar. At least I think I now understand more about the reasons why. That said (and this is more a reflection on me) at times I find it hard to concentrate and have a tendency to 'drift off'. Some of your videos are thus great for getting to sleep (sorry, I really don't meant to be rude). When I'm engaged with the topic or review then typically I find a need to pause your videos to read and assimilate your charts and/or replay to understand the finer points, so that I can apply to my own situation. But overall, cudos for being the best at doing thorough technical reviews.

@catriona_drummond 4 жыл бұрын

Ever since I watched the Stadia controller video I want a new side channel: "Steve dremels things"

@MikkoRantalainen 2 жыл бұрын

I found this video only now after all these years! Great content and you should consider wearing a shirt with "I 🖤 scientific method"! This video should be linked from the description of every heat pipe cooler you test!

@benjamintrathen6119 4 жыл бұрын

Your Testing methods are flawless

@rickbhattacharya2334 4 жыл бұрын

Who wants Steve to go to space just to see his fabulous hair in it's full glory

@user-yv2cz8oj1k 4 жыл бұрын

It would probably strangle him.

@PookaBot 4 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure we deserve this

@nickpickerwi7787 4 жыл бұрын

They'd probably make him tie it up, just because it otherwise might take over the cabin, and fly them into a giant graphite-like monolith. "What are you doing, Steve?"

@mrplow999 4 жыл бұрын

Great video Steve! Also, love the rgb ram wreath on the wall. So festive. Your videos are like a Futurama episode. You notice more things the more you watch.

@nukedathlonman 4 жыл бұрын

Was always was a little curious on this - good to see hard data on it.

@decadentgamer8322 4 жыл бұрын

You don't need to go to space Steve, your content is already out of this world!

@amatiasq 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for taking the tests so seriously :)

@enigmaPL 2 жыл бұрын

Love the info. While I had a basic understanding of heat pipes, in the end, I just resorted to classifying it as magic. This helped clear some of the misconceptions. Thank you for the video! :)

@thrydwulf 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the thoroughness of your tests.

@elijahheadrick1389 3 жыл бұрын

Always appreciative to hear it down to a literal science

@Lindholmer5k 4 жыл бұрын

Fantastic test! Been wondering about this for a while :)

@jarodatkinson5306 4 жыл бұрын

That was probably the most interesting no result video I've seen... Thanks!

@AjrAlves 4 жыл бұрын

Watching this at 4:17 AM (Brazilian time) because GN's content always worth my sleeping time.

@motor-head 4 жыл бұрын

Very well done! I appreciate your testing methodology.

@g10118 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent video, no one else goes this in-depth. I've been really pleased with the giant noctua TR cooler, definitely not going back to AIO water, they just don't hold consistent temps for 8+ hour renders.

@mibo747 Жыл бұрын

Many thanks for DETAILED ANALYSIS!

@twelvenation985 4 жыл бұрын

alot of hard work in this video keep it up guys!

@jeremywillis4124 4 жыл бұрын

top notch testing as always. Thank you!

@ThatKoukiZ31 4 жыл бұрын

Wow I'm super impressed that you guys could reassemble the heat pipes and THEN test with good results. That takes some skill to do! Good content GN! (oh and I'm joking btw wheres sarcasm font when you need it?)

@aronmerriman9514 4 жыл бұрын

I love how informayive this channel is

@MrSinnerBOFH 3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate the research, the methodology and how you provided your conclusions. Yay science!

@jefersonoliveira2773 4 жыл бұрын

Good work!! The good thing about the cooler box or similar is that it helps to cool the vrm

@tarron3237 4 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. Thanks a lot for the coverage!

@Braceheadon 2 жыл бұрын

the only reviewers in youtube that sites actual research papers, as a researcher I appreciate.

@nickpickerwi7787 4 жыл бұрын

I love watching you science the shit out of PC hardware. You have a keen eye for what to control...better than some engineers I work with.

@Lamron333 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for doing this! It was one question that always bugged me.

@n__neen 2 жыл бұрын

love that phrase "excursion from the mean". y'all's writing is top notch

@BAdventures 4 жыл бұрын

Was a good topic to investigate and good report 👍

@vikmanphotography7984 4 жыл бұрын

Send GN to space!!!

@GamersNexus 4 жыл бұрын

Everyone is trying to get rid of us!

@jtjones4727 4 жыл бұрын

Someone get Space-x on the phone!

@Arashmickey 4 жыл бұрын

Patreon funding goal level 1: blast off into space. Patreon funding goal level 2: muffin button

@phragmitesaustralis5433 4 жыл бұрын

I'm going to spam Elon.

@Thermalions 4 жыл бұрын

@@GamersNexus Well DeepCool probably want to after getting caught falsely advertising their solution.

@tomb375 4 жыл бұрын

AWESOME DETAIL! Thank you!!!

@MrBrianms 8 ай бұрын

I like the information about the science of Heat pipe design. Thanks.

@t0mn8r35 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent test. Very informative.

@joeystrittmatter6890 4 жыл бұрын

That amination you guys did was great

@GradyHouger 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent work!

@bentosan 4 жыл бұрын

Great vid, super interesting info. Thanks a bunch.

@mibo747 Жыл бұрын

You are Hardware MASTER, Answers on EVERY QUESTION

@craigprall9636 4 жыл бұрын

That's some seriously good Dremeling there. Whenever I try to use the cutoff wheel on a round surface, it bounces like a bronco rider.

@Kurkkulimu 4 жыл бұрын

wow great video i have always thinked about does orientation matter in coolers thanks

@kefka900 4 жыл бұрын

glad you guys took DTF into consideration

@MrAtthedrivein925 4 жыл бұрын

Great informative content!

@jag0937eb 4 жыл бұрын

this is great video thx for uploading witht decent info around it

@ThunderKat 2 жыл бұрын

I always love the idea of having the motherboard facing the floor, natural protection against water leaking given the low pressure tubes hold and also easy to spot when they do. Just need to have the water reserve mounted on top of all components (no issue).

@FishyMushroomz 4 жыл бұрын

Could you please do one more additional test with the heatpipes cut open on the ends? It would be interesting to see how much delta in performance if any there would be once the active cooling solution evaporated. Thanks, and keep up the good work guys.

@Aiscold93 4 жыл бұрын

My soul hurt a little, when you were sawing off heat pipes from beautiful Noctuas. I have nh-d15 se-am4 , it's such a beauty...monstrous heavy beauty..

@meghankrajchi4913 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for once again striving to teach science literacy by providing in-depth answers to questions like this one!

@onogrirwin 2 жыл бұрын

Null results are still useful - Glad you're putting in work!

@tarekmahmudbhuiyan7368 4 жыл бұрын

Great stuff. Keep it up.

@bigal2688 4 жыл бұрын

For someone that Brazes Copper and Aluminium for Transformer Coils for the last 40 Years Capillary action is a way of life! Considering how well copper transfers heat on it's own, I'm surprised that there is a need for the heat pipes to have such an elaborate design needing copper powder, a drop of water and then vacuum sealed to assist in the Capillary action! I honestly didn't know this!! Learn something new everyday! Thanks Steve!

@bloodethirteen 4 жыл бұрын

FINALLY a topic about how gravity affects heatpipe performance based on orientation. I've always thought of this ever since the heatpipe trend began more than 10 years ago!

@atavax311 4 жыл бұрын

thanks for testing upside down, that's the orientation my cpu heatsink is in!

@paulbrazel5027 4 жыл бұрын

One day you'll surprise us Steve, by proving some weird theory is actually based in fact.

@esoel 4 жыл бұрын

I just put in my thermalright axp-100, and even though I was very dubious of it, seeing the noctua docs I made sure to not have the pipes pointing down. Thanks for dispelling my ignorance, and maybe ask for comment from noctua too?

@Pyracantic 4 жыл бұрын

You're like the Axl Rose of tech man god I love your content!

@felicityc 4 жыл бұрын

I see.. a 30 minute video to tell us it doesn't matter, yet I still learned a lot

@marcgould9318 4 жыл бұрын

Great video, not very exciting but is just the stuff that only you guys can do!!

@radicalxedward8047 4 жыл бұрын

This is actually particularly interesting for the Phanteks Evolv X and other cases like that where you may actually have a cooler completely upside down with the cpu on top.

@darxustech2883 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I was worrying about this.

@P8qzxnxfP85xZ2H3wDRV 4 жыл бұрын

The reason there was no difference is that even in upside-down orientation, you didn't reach the heat transfer limit of the heatpipes. If you further increase the wattage, you'll see a sudden breakpoint, which depends on orientation. This does not matter for computer-end-users though, because they will never reach those wattages and even if we're talking about overclocking, it doesn't make sense, because the condenser on the cooler is too small anyway.

@wollm1325 4 жыл бұрын

I like how you brought science to reviewing again.

@joshuawigginton7956 4 жыл бұрын

It is also important to note that due to capillary action with regard to the average internal diameter of this sort of heat pipe, keeping in mind how thermal transfer and phase changes work, angle simply will not matter at all from a law of physics standpoint.

@Idtelos 4 жыл бұрын

CFD/CHT Software like ANSYS FLUENT and Star-CCM+ can model the heat transfer performances of different design orientation. One can simulate each orientation seperately or using parametric modeling to use built-in optimization software such as Design Manager in SCCM+ which would give more than one possible solution for optimizing cooling solution.

@wertywerrtyson5529 4 жыл бұрын

Interesting to know heat pipes go back to the 1960s or longer. I had never heard of them until 2007 when I got my first CPU cooler with heat pipes. Now tower coolers are common but back then it was the first I had seen with most coolers before then being small and horizontal.

@joker927 4 жыл бұрын

GN is still asking good questions and delivering scientific answers.

@Conorkc86 4 жыл бұрын

You should run a test where you perforate a heat pipe and let the internal liquid evaporate out. Do this to see what the phase change/evaporation cooling effect is vs conductivity of the copper pipe @ those temperatures. Would be an interesting test I think also. Great Videos

@dhgodzilla1 4 жыл бұрын

You could use a clamp style Mini Pipe Cutter to cut those pipes without evaporating the insides. They sell them right where you buy copper pipes for your house in the hardware store. Some are large but you can get one that is only a couple inches in size for the smaller pipes like Brake Lines

@flippy2332 4 жыл бұрын

Fantastic! Made me wonder what the actual difference adding the liquid to the pipes and sealing it makes. *eyes Noctua cooler and power drill*

@chuuni6924 4 жыл бұрын

Anecdotally, I tested this on my previous laptop. I has been long enough ago that I can't recall all the details, but I tested it multiple times in all six orientations, and all but one worked equally well. However, that last one orientation was not just outside of error, but the difference was extreme; almost all cooling performance was gone and the CPU had to throttle within seconds of me putting it under load. I don't recall exactly what orientation it was, but the heat-pipe in the laptop was mostly linear, and I'm fairly sure it was one of the two orientations in which the heat-pipe itself was vertical.

@jaras311 4 жыл бұрын

I observed very similar behaviour in Clevo W230SS - it was mostly ,but if you raised back of laptop so it makes about 45 degrees or higher, pufff, whole cooling is gone and even modest CPU activity was leading to 90 C. AFAIR I did find similar complaints for W230S* family in couple forums.

@Tsiikki 4 жыл бұрын

So thats why Patrick had bandaid on his finger in Coolant flush video. Nice pen holder and christmas light back there :D

@dhanarputra555 2 жыл бұрын

Testing the small insignificant variables for a thing like CPU Cooler is what I usually choose from a product regardless of brand.

@Demorthus 4 жыл бұрын

14:43 man that just looks so oddly satisfying to watch. All those microscopic little crevices & desert-like ground cracks

@akooru 4 жыл бұрын

im in geek heaven, thanks for posting!

@coredumperror 4 жыл бұрын

This is super cool content! So glad I got this video on auto play.

@crimsongrimstone 4 жыл бұрын

Very cool video.

@vikmanphotography7984 4 жыл бұрын

Specific to laptops, upside down is extremely common. Usually the CPU die is face down with the cooling solution closer to the bottom of the laptop case.

@MattTheriot 4 жыл бұрын

I absolutely love how thorough and scientific the testing is on this channel. When GN says something, there is a sound, reproducible, control tested test to back it up.