My goal with this video was not to start a war about stats, I simply believe you must be an expert in a field to be taken seriously and that was the reason I brought them up in the first place. You would listen to a doctor who has studied for 8-10 years and practiced for another 20 years over some person on the internet about medical advice (i hope). But I see stats are a touchy subject and probably should have mentioned this near the end of the video instead of at the start to keep the discussion focused on CV's. I also could have communicated better about stats/credentials. It is fine to have an opinion no matter your stats, I personally will value that opinion more or less depending on your expertise in the game. The whole purpose of this video was not to start flaming people over stats, but to get my thoughts on cv's into 1 video I can point to in the future. And to be clear this is about the current state of cv's, as mentioned later in the video I can see cv's working in the game if they were changed in a few key ways. Thank you for watching the video the whole way through before commenting.

Imagine introducing the thing that ended the age of Battleships into your game specifically about Battleships.

in a semi-recent jingles video, he sasid something that really resonated with me: I never thought a video game could make me angrier than artillery does... until the cv rework happened.

CVs and Subs were created to minimize interaction with the enemy. Great for winning wars, awful for a PvP game.

I’ll never not think that a massive improvement would be replacing rocket planes with a fighter squadron so you could manually defend your own ships from the enemy CV.

Just give cvs the ability to send fighters to specific ships. (That actually shoot down enemy planes.) the fighters can then be redirected to another friendly ship but can only exist for 180 sec before recharging.

One thing that I find weird is that a surface ship has to dedicate both captain skills and modules towards AA to prepare for an enemy they might not even face in battle. Furthermore, equipping these modules/skills makes the surface ship objectively worse when facing other surface ships. The CV on the other hand will always go up against surface ships and thus benefit from their skills/modules every match. The only way you can guarantee the benefits of the AA skills and modules is to join a platoon with a CV.

Former Cv main here: 57% CV winrate, 2300 CV PR, 500+ CV matches. EU: CaptainObese 4:13; fundamentally, from a competative perspective, CVs do not belong in the game. However, the people that play this game competatively are not the audience wargaming is catering to, ships like the ARP Yamato are proof of that. New players bring life and more importantly money to the game thus that is the audience wargaming is catering. The reworked CV's fit into this scheme because they take very little skill to comprehend and play (lowering the skillgap being the entire point of the rework). From a gameplay/balancing/competative perspective you are totally right, from a monitary(WG cares about this one the most ;))/gamehealth/keeping new players around perspective you are very, very wrong. 12:27; I do not see automated AA as a problem. Most players are already struggeling with angling and aiming, let alone map awareness. Thus giving them control over their own AA and let them manage it would be a total disaster. It would increase the skill gap too much. Players have some control over their AA by the likes of the DFAA consumable and priority-sector. It is all about finding the balance between total control/mastery of AA and having a little skillgap. Personally I believe that for a start the cooldown for priority-sector should be lifted in order to balance the aforementioned problem(s). 24:24; that problem is even more severe than you think, sometimes if the fighters finally tag onto an enemy squad the fighters cannot even catch up with the enemy planes because they are too slow, and then there is the problem that CV decks at tier X are amoured enough to tank some divebomb attacks. This means that a CV vs CV dual usually is fought with effectivly only half of the availible firepower, making CV vs CV interaction pretty much non-existent. Now the elephant in the room, the CV's role in battle. (this is from a forum post and I did not write this myself, I do agree with what is being said) In Order to Fix CVs. This System of CVs being Capable of Countering every other Class needs to be removed and they have to be Integrated into the Games Normal Ruleset of having Advantages and Disadvantages. CVs are currently Capable of Fighting every other Class (a few Exceptions amongst CVs excluded) This is Achieved because CVs are the only Class in the Game that tends to get 3 Primary Weapons and 1 Secondary Weapon instead of just 1. And thus having 1 Primary Weapon against each Class. Whereass other Classes tend to get just 1 Primary and 1 Secondary Weapon. With rare cases having 2 Secondary Weapons one of which Tends to be entirely useless as a Result. CVs currently Fill 4 of 6 Roles in the Game. Spotting, Damage Dealing, Kill Securing and Map Control. While the only 2 Roles they dont Fill are Tanking Damage and Capturing Points. All other Classes. Only Fill 2 Roles each and maybe a 3rd Role in some Rare Specific Cases. (SuperCruisers also being able to Tank for example which is normally the BBs Job) To Fix CVs. What needs to be Done is therefore Simple. Remove 2 of these Roles. Which Roles are Removed isnt so Importand Actually. For example. They could Remove Team Spotting from CVs. Or even Remove Spotting from Planes entirely. And thus make it so that CVs Squadrons work like Artillery in WoT and can only Attack Enemies Spotted by the Team. This would remove Map Control and Spotting from the CVs Role. Thus making it a Pure Kill Securer and Damage Dealer. Which would be Perfectly Fine. They could also for example. Vastly Nerf the Damage Output of CVs. So that their Average Damage Numbers goes more towards that of DDs. Thus CVs Primary Objective would no longer be Dealing Damage but to Provide Spotting and Map Control by Opportunistic Attacks rather than being Capable of Pressing the Attack against any Target. Removing the Damage Dealer and Kill Securing Role. That would also be Fine. Because as long as the CV is Capable of Dealing Damage and Kills like a Battleship while also being Capable of Spotting like a DD and Controlling the Map like a Cruiser. No amount of Minor Adjustments will really Fix CVs. (credit to sunleader, the commander of THESO: forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/144695-world-of-warships-balancing-the-cv-rework-proposal/?page=4) These are just my 2 cents. Fair winds and following seas! -Captainobese

Oh fun. Two FDR's logged in and got to try to out farm each other while 22 other people watched.

I miss RTS CV's....they were so fun to play

I used to be high level during rts and I also agree that the rework actually made cv gameplay quite boring even for cv players. It's basically unlimited power and repetitive gameplay. I think the rts system could do it with only 3 squad slots with customizable airwings (fighter, bomber, torpedo) to fill the slots, for more dinamic gameplay. Also a fuel mechanic for the planes, to avoid infinite spotting. Limited planes, to increase the value of every plane lost . And a big buff to the AA sector mechanic with longer reload time to replace de old AA consumable, so that all ships can defend some strikes.

Basically, it boils down to one thing - the ONLY thing WG really cares about in any of their titles, is making money - if their spreadsheet shows that more players are playing CV's post-rework - and therefore spending money on playing CV's - and buying premium CV's - then in their eyes the CV rework is a great success - and nothing else matters. You can argue all the other reasons till you're blue in the face, but WG makes changes to this game based on their bank account.

Well, i'ts simple, when a ship class are NOT in official games tournament, you know there is a problem with this class.

Or just make it like in the old times when cvs didnt have unlimited planes. So that they really have to conserve their planes and decide if a strike is worth loosing planes.

Since I'm not an expert on the game I'm not here to express my opinion on CV's, I'm here just to explain my strategy against them: I play only at tier 2 or below

The biggest problem that I find about CV’s the the inability to learn from battles against them. So many friends and people I personally know have either stopped playing or don’t enjoy the game much anymore because of this. In a wider sense, say you’re in a battleship and you decide to aggressively rush a cap at the beginning of a match. If you just push straight in, its likely that you’re going to get focused and probably die or lose a majority of your hp. From that experience, you can then see that there was likely a flaw in how you were playing. That next time, maybe you could be a little more passive, or use islands to help you push. There is nothing like this in place for CVs however. No counterplay or learning experience, and its so difficult to gauge what you did wrong because the majority of the time you didn’t actually play incorrectly. Its just so frustrating to lose so many dedicated and helpful players due to this stupidly designed class.

Implement operating radius for aircraft. Limit the "range" of CVs.

I found the best way to deal with CVs, i quit and uninstalled this game, and i don't miss it.

Fun fact: Pilots can only report enemies' position by pinging mini map during WW2.

Glad you made the video. Trust me, it is very important that more people start talking about this. WG doesnt have the balls to acknowledge the CV rework failed, and no one wants to tell their bosses that a ton of money sunk into this was pretty much down the drain. They went out of their way to state its against EULA to div and actively hunt CV's, and threatened to actually ban players for doing it. Love this game to death, played for 4 years straight with over 15000 random battles. But with the announcement of submarines and the fact that they will artificially maintain CV popularity by nerfing AA everytime the % of CV players drops behind a certain number, im pretty much done with the game.

That's why CV's are called the "Fun Police"

I can’t say I am at your lvl and I am definitely not, but something I heard from Flambass that without changing the unlimited ammo issue you could put a range limit on how far planes could get away from the CV. This would be on par with the range of your guns or torpedoes. This would also require that they risk their HP pool to facilitate the same threat everyone else faces.

So bad design that I need to gimp my ship to get "better" AA just to play 10 matches without a CV...

I liked the old fighters better, they could protect ships and strafe out incoming attack groups. Suddenly the CV player had an opponent who could hunt him and his planes down. This would bring back some skill and danger to playing CV's, and improve balance.

all i want is fun in this game.....but dieing in your DD in the first 3 min cause one CV simply does not like you, makes me sick :(

You know, I think wargaming themselves put it best. One of their trailers, I believe the one advertising open beta, shows the game as a sort of rock-paper-scissors match. A battleship loses a fight to destroyers, which are in turn destroyed by a cruiser, which would in turn lose to another battleship (this isn't strictly true, but in normal combat situations it's how it tends to and is intended to go). Carriers, submarines, and similar things ruin this balance. They don't fit in to the balance, and nothing is being done about that. They could, if changed correctly, but there is no place for them as they are.

Something you missed when talking about the skill required for CV is how CV are the only class in the game where the game shows you where you aimed. This is invaluable feedback that, combined with the short flight time of your bombs/rockets/torps, makes learning how to aim in a CV incredibly easy compared to any other ship in the game, including regular torpedos.

Jingles calls them the fun police... rightfully so

Potatoe, the overall big fundamental reason CV shouldn’t be in game is the same reason missle frigates are not in the game. WG literally created a fun surface ship battle game then introduced a class of ship (cv) that historically and “realistically” made surface ship battles invalid and extinct.

Historically everything changed in CV role in war since Midway fight. Before they were thought to be assistant and reconnaissance ships, after Yamato, Midway and Tirpiz - whole battle dogma changed to CV as being tip of the spear for fleet. Therefore, CV shouldn't have been invented at all in this game, only as call-out recourse with couple minutes of cooldown.

CV's in 5v5 ranked is potentially an absolutely miserable experience for 8 out of the 10 players. If the potential is there for that to happen in a game just because of mechanics then there's a problem. When playing DDs with no AA then you spend most of the game hiding from a Cv.

what if islands had strong AA?

So essentially your views are 1% of the playerbase has a right to comment, since 97% is below a 50% winrate.

I believe a ship line can't be straight-up removed, so I honestly think the way back is a rollback to RTS CV's. It was devastating when you were against a good CV, but the skill ceiling meant it was far more difficult for individual players to do well, meaning the learning curve sucked which put people off playing them and often meant you only had CV's in 10-20% of matches. The primary problem is that current CV's aren't risking anything: before the rework, taking out planes had a real impact on the CV's ability to do anything. CV's could effectively sit and fight each other, and def. AA had a real impact on the drop. The rework both directly and indirectly dumbed everything down.

Perhaps you could try to be less insulting regarding "credentials" in order for someone to change your mind, for instance you may be a top level player because the team/clan you play with are coherent and work well together and just maybe you are a good solo player, but lets get real for a minute, skill in a game doesn't mean people with less skill in game don't have complex understandings of the game and how to balance things.

Two years later and these issues still persist.

Good video as always, PQ. I've been making much the same arguments on /r/Worldofwarships for some time. One thing you touched on that I would flesh out a bit is on how CVs remove a lot of tactical variety from the game. For instance, the ability to set up ambushes or surprise attacks: pretty much out the window when CVs are in the game, as all it takes is one unexpected fly-over, and your position is given up, your surprise is gone. I would also caution your requirement of having experience at a high level before someone can argue against you. I understand why you do it; there are a lot of potatoes out there who will say some truly face-palm inducing inane things, but at the same time, an argument should be evaluated on its merits, not on the person making the argument. It smacks of a certain amount of arrogance to do otherwise. Well-earned arrogance, perhaps, but arrogance nonetheless. Even if everything you say is spot-on a lot of people are going to attack you or dismiss you for this alone.

Im new at the game (not even 100 battles), but even I noticed a big problem with CVs. They can interact with you but you can’t really interact with them. It’s like destroyer, cruiser and battleships are playing one game and CVs a different one. CVs are just there and there nothing you can do, plan or change. The best tactic seem to just ignore them and hope for the best.

The gatekeeping assumption that you should be skilled before you should make an argument--You should have credentials... If the concept is so esoteric, that you cannot talk about it without being certified to do so... Isn't that, in itself, a problem? If the game is making changes to try to attract new players, and those changes are confounding inexperienced players so much that they are run off by the mechanics--isn't that a major part of the problem?

RTS CVs were the peak for the class, a strategic ship that while it could do damage, had to also focus on defending its team lest they allow the enemy CV to steamroll their team, you could actually get compliments as a good CV back during RTS days because of TEAMWORK which modern CVs don't do.

You're very humble... couple minutes in I already can't stand you.

specifically in regards to CV rework. Did we need rockets? Did we really? It takes a BB ~30 seconds to reload or switch shell type. But any hint of flight deck operations on a CV? nope! Any plane can INSTANTLY launch. This is just crazy to me.

I'm CVmain and have most of my unicum stats on my CVs (like described in the video :) ) but I fully agree. The points you've mentioned are quite right and I'm sad WG doesn't change CVs because I hate the hate against CVs. My experience is, the hate against CVs is mainly based on their spotting potential. Won't the removal of CV's spotting potential be a huge step into the right direction? Let's say CVs can only spot for themselves. Sure, for competetive it's not useful at all, because the teams communicate with Teamspeak or Discord and positioning can be adjusted based on this information. But won't it be a huge improvement for random battles at least? And making the fighters useful again? Create a real CV vs. CV based on their fighters? Let's say a CV has a limited amount of fighters (of course with cooldown): A click on the minimap is enough to spawn fighters somewhere on the map but WITHOUT spotting potential. It creates a way better counterplay at least for your CV against enemy CVs, right? Both - like I would call it - "small improvements on CVs gamplay" would be very healthy to the game in my opinion... What do you guys think?

Get rid of some of the passive spotting maybe! Getting blapped from across the map by something I cannot see is not pleasant. Maybe a Spotter Plane Class so the CV player can select attack or spot, not both at the same time.

Great Video, but I find it interresting that you need to see credentials before you accept an argument. If the argument is sound, does it matter where it comes from from?

Quite humble self introduction :)

I like how you casually obliterated my damage record on the BACKGROUND FOOTAGE.

I agree with most of your points, but I have to admit, you being unwilling to listen to the majority of the playerbase because they are not as good at the game as you is incredibly arrogant, and frankly quite rude. All players are effected by CV's, not just the pros, so they all should be able to voice their opinions and be taken seriously.

Thoughts on adding a timer to the planes so they can’t just stay in the air as long as the player wants, and making it so the cv can only spot for other ships by “extending” a surface ship’s existing spotting range

Just watching FDRs torp planes makes my jaw drop at how ridiculous broken it is. I was on the receiving end of an FDR torp planes once in my Baltimore. I seriously could not turn fast enough to doge, ate all of his torps. Immediately down to like 16k health. And the player after the strike came back around and finished me off with the second strike. I was the first blood award in the span of 5 minutes and I wasn't even in that aggressive of a position.

Lol CV’s characteristics are like this because in real life, they do not fit with the other warships as well. They are the reason why nowadays, there is no battleship around.

Totally agree with it all. Nothing worse than a CV two tiers higher farming you because its easier than winning the match. Would like to see wargaming give us our AA back...

During the ranked last week, I met a FDR in my kremlin (with all my AA destroyed by a sneaky thunderer) I ate 45k dmg with 2 bombers drops, and 3 fires. Fun and engaging

Got a few ideas on my own also inspired by others that comment here, so first thx to all of you > This way either CV should become visible for a 1 second (not enough to target unless waiting for this) or less hardcore version - updated position on minimap. 3. Altitude change: + high, spotting on minimap only (immune to AA dmg) + medium, spotting on minimap and NONTARGETABLE spotting - low dispersion on shots vs those (like blind shots where you know where the ship is, but invisible); planes get more consistent damage and flacks + low, attack altitude for torps and rockets (planes get more critical damage) + clouds that could act like smokes for planes, prevent vision and gives concealment. Clouds often are close or on some vast area, battles could be in 0-100 % cloud cover divided by 25% stages. Sometimes scattered, sometimes bigger area. Thunderstorms can hit planes too - rng based and planes should have problems while navigating in those (low speed, shakes that turn more or less the plane a bit in some direction) 4. Defensive AA consumable puts you in manual charge of AA guns for the short period - 10-20 sec, 5-6 consumables per game. Short time is good so you can skip 1 shot of main guns, but you can still control ship. You will shoot continuous damage after cursor all the time and fire flacks using LMB. 5. Like the idea of starting planes only on cruising speed - they rly need that initial speed to take off. 6. Fuel? - limited time in the air of a squadron, or limited total distance traveled: if you use a lot early game, later you will have just for close range raids. Surface Ships loos HP, CV's use fuel for flights. Additionally or separately: boosting use 100% more fuel while gliding saves 50% while dropping speed. 7. Altitude addon & range upgrade: There is an effective ground and ceiling range in AA guns, some random en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.8_cm_Flak_18/36/37/41 gun has effective fire range 15km fire range for ground and 8 km for ceiling. AA bubbles could be much bigger in that way, but also damage could scale from almost non existent far away to 100% at close range and 75% at very close range (above). This does not exclude PvE though. 8. #4 + #7 AA can be automated for low damage and switched to manual for high damage. If you are flanking with a CV, mostly you are focused and only thing you focus on is planes. Manual controlled AA would be fighting actively back and thus not being a juicy target. There should be possibility to shoot down full squadron by a good player when you don't need to focus on main guns yet. Could also be consumable dependant. 9. Chance of an attacking plane to be destroyed, not only the "backup" planes of the squadron. That would be also a way to mitigate some damage. 10. Preparation of planes - starting early with 3 planes ready of each type, but slightly improving the restoration rate. To focus early game either on scouting or just low harassment. ,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-.,,.-*''*-., FOR CV's: 1. They could enjoy more active fight vs player manual controlled AA (evading shells or flack wall) 2. Cloud would be an extra environment that they could use for surprise attacks and more in depth tactics in general 3. Fuel or time based flight will need more planning how to effectively utilize planes in combat. 3b. Possibility to select number of planes in a squadron by 1-4 steps (1-4 attack runs) to select tasks: more on spotting or save "fuel" in small harassment attack early game, more decisive attack runs later on. 4. Full squad attack - attacking with full squadron at the same time, but with low accuracy or/and higher damage taken (something like panic mode, but with a risk of loosing full squad due to damage) Also opened a thread here: forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/145867-cv-some-ideas-to-work-on/

honestly it just bugs me how CVs don't have to operate by the real limitations of CVs. They sit perfectly still and launch wave after wave of aircraft of varying ammo types. There's no wind to head into but I'd say aircraft carriers should have to be moving at an appreciable speed to launch aircraft. There's no limitation to aircraft launch in relation to aircraft recovery. They just kind of despawn as soon as they drop ordinance. Similarly, if they want to change armament, they should have a significant delay that would make battleships feel that changing their shell types is fast. During this time they would be unable to launch more aircraft, be more likely to take devastating hits and keep their team's air cover/ air spotting down. Right now there's no tradeoff. They sit stationary at the back of the map and ruin everybody's day who is trying to grind out a typical ship that as you said, has to risk its HP to affect the outcome of the game. CV's only risk being the last ship alive and having to outrun everybody coming for revenge after a map of getting shat on by the spicy pigeons.

quickfix: give carrier a dedicated spotter plane on a similar cooldown to other ships' spotter planes. All other planes have no spoting function and see just what your team sees.

If WG had actually reworked CVs into how they work in Battlestations: Pacific then I think that would’ve been more successful. The only reason I say CVs should stay in the game is because they play a significant part in naval warfare.

I would comment but you are just to smart for everyone. Disappointed in your attitude towards other player's abilities. I like you posts just about everytime, and your points here are on the mark, but your thoughts about other players is arrogant.

I mean, CVs are so powerful IRL that they caused battleships to go extinct. If you try to recreate the same ships in a game that tries to be somewhat historically accurate you are gonna end up in the same situation, where a single ship can alter the course of a battle completely.

The most players hate cvs. Wg: we have a good idea we create more and more stronger cvs for the game...

New player who doesn't play a lot who plays CVs the most here: I don't think carriers themselves are the problem. It's the things like infinite planes, ships like the FDR, and broken things like DD rocket nuking that are. If I'm not playing a carrier, I'm playing the Skane. Yes, I camp around in T7-T9 games at my level and skill. The amount of games I have played in that thing where something like a Ranger or Lexington destroyed my ship in less than 4 attacks. It's enough to just completely turn me off from playing the game. "Oh, but just dodge, man. It makes it easier." I get the whole "just dodge" thing, and I even try to take it into effect. But I've noticed a lot about this game. As a destroyer, you're expected to cap. So here's me doing my absolute best to > cap > while trying to spot targets > while dodging near infinite CV fire > while trying not to get spotted > while dodging near infinite fire from 2-5 other ships > while looking out for/dodging incoming torpedoes I might see in the capture circle > while deleting some of its planes with my strong ass AA > while without smoke > while moving at sub 40 knot speed > all the while trying not to get flamed and lambasted by the entire freaking team to cap, and to spot targets I'm a new player. Not just to World of Warships, but to strategy games on a whole. So having all of this to think about makes me not think clearly or miss a lot. Then I die. And the carrier fighting me has infinite more planes to play around with, harassing the other members of my team, and my "sacrifice" was ultimately for nothing. And my WR is being reduced. [And it's that last part that blows me out of proportion. It's like I feel anything I do or say, even at tier 4-5 battles, will piss the members of this community off. I see so much comments about idiots on this game, it's like any time I start messing up in a battle, or don't do what I think I should be able to do, I see myself being "one of those idiots" and I've even avoided the game, all 3 of them, to try to not be flamed. But anyhow, CVs.] Then, it's ships like the FDR. Never in my life have I seen planes have 4 torpedoes per plane, or 15/30 rockets per plane (if I read correctly). "But the time between attacks is pretty long--" But there's 8 torpedoes on a squadron of 2 planes. But there's 30/60 rockets on a squadron of 2 planes. But this ship's aircraft has 3,200 hit points. But they can recharge their planes infinitely, and sit in the back of the map for however long. I'm for carriers being in the game, but come on. Really? Keep in mind-- Matchmaking is hella botched. 8-10 games. And fail divisions exist too. So imagine the damage this could do to a tier 7 destroyer. To a tier 7 cruiser. To a tier 7 battleship. And look at what they can do about it. Come on. Anyhow, thanks for coming to my TED talk. I'll go camp around in T4 games until I'm good enough to actually play. (suppose i'm not gonna be taken seriously/clowned on because I'm "defending the carriers" or because I haven't played as much as you all, or because i have a sub 50% WR on last check, but I think my opinion is just as valid as everyone else's.)

I wish I was good enough playing CV's that I could actually take advantage of the brokenness, but I am just too bad. I therefore do not play CVs anymore and am hoping I am contributing to the community by doing so :)

as a dd player, my fav part is where the enemy cv has no clue where i am, the friendly cv drops some fighters above me for support anyway and the enemy cv instantly redirects his rocket planes my way :D .. so even the friendly cv helping the other team spot you sometimes.

Hey. This video is a nice summary of what happened in the game since the CV rework. I'm in the game since CBT, being a unicum-super unicum BB main since the last 3+ years (EU). It was absolutely needed to make a fact-based educational video about the menace of the game, but you failed at a very significant aspect. You started with minutes of unicum self-sucking that will instantly make most of the players watching this to handle it with a huge amount of doubt despite of it being very decent. When you make an educational video, you need to be extremely humble and level yourself much lower than you are actually. At the end, after you made your observations and conclusions, and you gained the support of your viewers, you can freely mention who you are, how good you are, how good your clan is, etc. Because you already did the work of educating, convincing. It's unfortunate that you shot this video in the leg by this. Also you didn't mention it, but also an interesting thing. This game is about gun based surface naval warfare. This is what we like about the game. When CVs appeared in real life, within some years, they made surface, gun based warfare obsolete. They're much better at anything from gaining intelligence to striking targets, that battleships and most cruiser classes basically got written out of existence. This is the most valid argument imo why CVs cannot actually be balanced in this game. It's either making them to be very powerless so they let the surface ships make their plays and therefore unfun for the CV players, or make them historically kek everything they meet and therefore unfun for everyone else. Since WGs aim to have CVs in the game in a stable level, it's very unlikely they're gonna change how they work. It doesn't matter if there are AA or not, squad panic or not, unlimited or limited planes, the fundamental thing is, they will demolish surface ships play. That's how they're designed irl. Also educating the playerbase in this matter is also very hard because good players are mostly already agree with us, and bad or average players will die from everything, not just from CVs, so they actually can't see how it is different. Convincing people that are unwilliung to learn the game is a great task. I appreciate the effort but you're the typical unicum like me, triggering the playerbase with hard facts. Hard facts confuse people, dude. Anyway, I wish you clear skies for you in your BB games.

Got about 800 games in co-op and 100 in random. I fully agree with the fact that CVs don't fit the game, dealing with them is a pain, and not fair at all compared to everything else. Having no control over the AA is pretty lame as well. Used to be able to select the squad to attack like secondaries on another ship. I'm not claiming to be an expert or anything like that, but I feel like CVs in wows is like arty in WOT. Seriously annoying, and you can't do anything about them at all, cause they are hiding all the way across the map.

well, i am recently new to playing CVs, but have over 10k games in other ship classes, i think it would be interesting to have AA, focus the attacking squadron, and if a plane is shot down, it isnt replaced from the overall squad. Then, if you lose all the planes in the attack squad, you lose that attack and start the cooldown to begin a new one. I also agree that spotting is too powerful especially against DDs. Maybe they could add an unlimited consumable (with a cooldown of course) that would essentially act like a super short radar (and doesnt work while a ship is in smoke). I love the idea of making them only a support ship - where they can drop smoke, drop other buffs, and do spotting. Or, if they keep AA the way it is, if a captain decides to spec FULL AA, they should be able to shoot down planes. Period. Ultimately, there needs to be something done...

Lower than avg player who just loves the game here, So with a grain of salt- Retired Navy. 1 Make CVs more likely to attack other CVs OR make it a Objective like CAPs with very high Game points. Whole Battles where fought just to kill CVs - this is that history 2 The CV is a platform for planes so without planes it reverts to a ship with low to no attack/defense value so MAKE plane loss directly connect to its HP pool. (ie. HP pool of 80k with say 70 planes with 1k per plane avg. -each loss of plane reduces CV health pool as that is its weapons.) Plane repair should also be limited to damaged planes recovered with a max of 10-15% of total planes aboard so case above 7-10.

Being good at the game, means you have a good understanding of the game. I don't understand why expert opinion is not valued or dismissed? An unbalanced CV class affects the average player far more than the unicum. A balanced class benefits all players on the receiving end, whether you are good, bad, or average. On the issue of balance within the classes, please refer to the analysis conducted by WG themselves 40:53 (Spreadsheet Balance).

I believe only 3 small changes need to be made to at the very least greatly improve the game with CV's still in them. 1) CV's will no longer provide 3D spotting, but only 2D (explanation: you see the ships on the minimap that are spotted by the CV, but not on your screen so you can hit them) This already removes about half of the arguments in this video, because the CV doing damage is mostly not the real problem, the other surface ships capitalizing on your dodge from the CV attack is. It would also make the 'just dodge' comment a feasible tactic instead of the utter meme it is in the community right now. 2) make citadel damage done by CV's partially healable, let's say about 50-ish percent. 3) Make AA amounts indestructible .... if I need to explain this.... you do not understand the game....Conquerer/Thunderer salvo wiping AA and secondaries from 100 to 0 in 1 to 2 strikes anybody? These 3 would solve most of the problems with minimum effort and greatly improve strategic play and the game overall. This might not be all that's needed, but doing these 3 and then gathering data for a few months I think you'll see we would be close to good balance already. A general change for the game that would greatly improve balance, make 3 fire the maximum, with the fire prevention skill maximizing the amount of fire to 2. And drastically lower the fire duration and chance for the most problematic ships, you know who you are ;) Lastly, if you want to buff AA, also buff the CV's plane reserve tremendously, otherwise, the change has no use I honestly believe above changes are better than the ones supposed in this video. And honestly Potato, CV's are not that easy as you make them out to be. Please note that I mean this in the way that yeah, dealing damage might be easy in a CV, but helping your team win the game in a CV is hard. That's why a good CV player (teamplay wise) usually doesn't do that much damage as these insane high damage replays you see. CV's are too focused on doing massive damage right now, because they're only incentivized to do that and nothing else. If I play a CV well for the team, we win, but my damage is mediocre in comparison. If I play a CV well for me, my damage is high, but the rest of my potato team still throws the match.

2 years later, with super CVs now in game, the problem is even bigger, but WeeGee won't care as long as the Doubloon rolls....

This issue was inevitable for one seemingly minor but severe reason: the game is set in WW2, and the genre is Arcade PvP. The most fundamental features of CVs immediately lend them an un-counterable advantage. But they happen to be most significant pieces of naval warfare in WW2; this genre is a game-balancing deathtrap, converted into a money-milker by WG.

Well, how about setting game choice (No CV) game play? Like co-op or random. Or, maybe more Extra slip choice for game mode of (No BBs) or (No DDs). There, we'll have more in game choices. Slips

CV's after rework is why i quit playing ships. Good video.

55% WR player: I do think CVs should remain in the game, the video points out that they are lower skill cap and people want to play them. The spotting mechanic really should be changed for both CVs and radar. They should show up on the mini map but not be a target another ship can aim at. The engine cooling and speed boost mechanic should be removed. Also the surface detection range for CVs should be greatly increased to make anti CV plays more realistic.

Problem is, they can focus hard on one ship, technically forcing that ship out of play or killing it before it has any chance of taking play into the game. I don’t really hate hate cv gameplay, but the fact they have this sense of control over anyone without risking his/her own ship is quite troubling to me. This is especially showing in recent 7 v 7 cb or ranked, when there is just one DD for instance. Once found, it’ll be forced to stop their role and run away or die trying to accomplish whatever they set out to do.

Now, the thing is - CVs are OP in real life already. Balancing out something that concept is to basically eliminate the enemy force before they even spot you, i.e. Yamato sinking for example, combined with the ineffective aa fire of bbs, and insanely high alpha damage in game makes this class particularly impossible to balance.

Can somebody make a tool showing the percentage of CVs waiting in the queue, so I don’t have to open the game to see the number of CVs in queue and close the game disappointed every night.

if they would spot and the ships dont render for others, like within the storm, that would be nice and easy to implement. they still give huge intel, but the crossfire thing is eliminated (unless you watched the aiming guide from a unicum ;) ) and with dodging you can mitigate most of the dmg from the cv, therefor you have a dmg reduction aswell.

Balancing two classes against each other with the speed differences being as they are is fundamentally impossible. CVs changed how people fought at sea, and made big gun ships obsolete in everything except low-cost infantry support along the coast. They are no more at home in a game about said ships with said guns, than machine guns are in a game about cavalry.

Avoiding SPGs is as simple as hiding behind a building or keep moving Avoiding CVs is NOT as simple as hiding behind an island nor keep moving

With old carriers, while alpha strike potential was higher, the damage cap was lower to newer ones (due to squadrons being slower, recharge times for damage/lost squads and of course, the plane cap to refill squads), AA could totally prevent a strike rather than the WG balance decision of CVs now being able to strike you at least once despite high AA, and fighters being less passive of abilities, I think that gameplay hump aside, CVs were much more balanced previous vs now (not that they were completely fair back then either, and some individual CVs were broken in aspects).

I kinda like how u compare CV and Artillery. Unicum Artillery player always relocate to get the best possible angle to atk and bypass terrains and houses but it takes a minute or 2 to relocate. To CV they just need to reposition the planes and in seconds, they nullify ur cover completely

Wow, great thoughts. A lot of us can tell you a few reasons why CVs do not belong but you have a great way of putting it all together. It is weird though. I think that IF cvs were removed, and I know that will never happen, but if they were, then I think more players would return to wows then would leave. Most people play WoWs for the ships. Having the ship on ship action. Adding planes just ruins it. I know I am late to the party. I quit Wows over 2 years ago now and just came back to see if anything changed... it hasn't lol Basemastar

The most important information of this video is: always try to kill Potato Quality no matter what.

I've played this game off and on since it came out. The biggest issue in my opinion is not that there are CV's and Submarines, it's that whenever there is a CV or a Submarine there is one less BB, CL, DD. The game has been out for 14 years and they still haven't made battles larger than 12v12, there very ships meant to counter them are just replaced by them in the 12v12. If they make carrier games 15v15 or 20v20 to add more surface ships to compensate it wouldn't be so boring are garbage.

You know ur pissed when the first 5 mins of the video is explaining how 'im an expert' lmfao. Stay seething :)

I feel like as far as CV's are concerned, they need to balance AA defense and have AA designated ships be a class. Those that can easily shred squadrons and work against the CV. At the moment there is no proper counter to CV's which is the problem. Edit: Having Defensive AA or a AA commander skill allow you to manually control your AA to shoot down enemy planes would be a great way to counter/impact CV's.

I agree with you that CVs do not fit the game, and I agree with you that they are not balans, BUT the initial segment completely turned me off to this video. You stating your credentials and saying that someone has to be on your level sounded extremely Gatekeep-ey. According to WOWstats, the North American server (that the O7 clans play on) the total number of purple players by winrate is 2729, the total number of players with stats present on NA server is 96540. That means that purple players (by WR) equate to around 3% of the players on that server. Your initial argument literally rules out 94 THOUSAND people. I understand that this is a game and that many people play for fun, but to say that you have to be on your level to discuss is slightly worrisome. We get angry at WG for not listening to the masses, yet you advocate the same thing in this video. And for the record I'm only a 51% WR player, just average all around, but I play this game too.

Thank you for making this video, explaining it in a logical concise way. I never knew precisely why I quit WOWS other than when CVS were introduced I began to hate the game, and the joy of playing weekly was gone. Your point about CVS creating cross fires anywhere on the map summed your points up nicely, you can be a good, smart player with good ship handling and frankly a CV can ruin your game in a few good strikes, lastly you can really never de-plane them even if your AA is decent. I enjoy watching your videos, flambass, Trenlass, Flamu, and panzerknacker , that is good enough for me, until The CVS are removed which will never occur.

What i find really annoying is the distribution of AA You have things like a halland that can turkeyshot a tier 8 sqaud before being spotted and you have (insert japanese ship) that cant do jack shit to any plane

I'm thinking of 2 ways to balance cv's. 1. Give planes a gas timer If planes can only stay in the air for a limited time before automatically being sent back to the ship, then they cant be the gods of constant spotting. Also planes will have to commit to a direction, preventing drastic changes for poor positioning. 2. Bring back cv vs cv gameplay. The fighter bubble doesn't really help unless the cv player isn't playing correctly. At this point, just add another flyable plane type that can only shoot at other planes. This gives cv's another task to do other than spotting and farming damage. If cv's can fight each other, then there would be a balance between attacking enemy ships and defending ally ships. I think most players would appreciate it if a cv came and provided some actual assistance against enemy planes.

While your points were reasonable, your introductory discussion was ludicrous. Basically you're saying because you're a high level player your opinion is more valid than anyone else's. Sorry to break it to you, but the developers would like the game to appeal to the widest audience as possible. By definition, this is NOT you. So arguably, your opinion may actually be less valid that that of a more casual player.

18k views and over 1.2k comments on this vid, yet only 8k YT subs... nice clickbait!!! Gg sir. But I'll bite... Before getting to some of the points in your vid that I disagree with (and some that are flat-out wrong), first it requires addressing your sheer condescension for anyone other than the very best players that might disagree with or have an informed opinion about a subject that they might actually have something valuable to contribute. Putting a video like this up on KZfaq for the entire internet to see but with a caveat that only 'suitably experienced' people are good enough to inform or shape your opinion? I'm amazed there's sufficient space for all these comments and your ego here, mate! That aside, the issue with the approach you're taking here to the matter at hand is that it's a bit like an elite sportsperson commenting on grassroots sports and claiming they know all the various issues going on at those levels! You might be god's gift to WOWS, on paper at least, but that doesn't preclude the fact that there are many other players out there who will know just as much as you about the game, mechanics, strategy, all that, but won't have the execution and in-game skills as you. Take aircraft carriers, you claim to know all there is about the game (and be the best at it), but you’ve ‘only’ played 32 battles in Tier X aircraft carriers. Really? So while I'm at pains to ignore your ridiculous ‘requirements’ around credentials on said issue, I'll just say I've been in the game 5+ years, notched up nearly 15k battles (1,600 in CV’s), pre and post-rework. My PR say I’m ‘good’ in CV’s and dish out unicum levels of dmg. I know all the mechanics and what’s needed to be done. Look me up if you still feel the need, I play on the Asia server. I actually agree with the majority of your arguments in a general sense but I think what we all need to agree on first is that aircraft carriers unequivocally belong in an early 20th century naval warfare arcade game like WOWS. There is no argument or counter to this point. 1,000 doubloons from me to anyone that can convince me otherwise. The second point that requires further exploration is to go back to the very concept of the aircraft carrier re-work. WG’s objective was to make aircraft carriers more accessible and more popular to the entire player base, and from this point alone you can say they’ve succeeded. Is it perfect, f@#k no. Is it balanced? I would argue yes, and WG continue to trot out the data that supports this fact but I’ll come back to my views on why yes in a moment. Where I do side with you and feel that further development is needed is as follows; 1. CV vs CV gameplay; this is just broken and I think the CAP consumable is just a lazy way for WG to say there's CV to CV interaction. My suggestion would be to go back to having fighters as a class of aircraft and fly them in the way we do now to have actual dogfights, making CV's think about whether to send up strike or fighter aircraft. Wouldn't be hard to implement and would certainly make CV vs CV play way more interesting. Plus, the CAP consumable is a DD's worst nightmare (will address this further) 2. Automated AA, agreed it feels a bit off to have RNG decide how planes are shot down or not. I’m not a game developer nor creative enough to think about better solutions here, it’s not a simple one. 3. Player skill floor/ceiling; my biggest grievance is that nearly no skill is required for any noob/potato to jump in a CV and without any clear foresight exert considerable influence on a battle. Same noob/potato player jumps in a DD next game and they’re dead in 1 minute and there goes their team’s ability to contest caps, spot etc. Conversely, a unicum CV player with a team of potatoes isn't absolutely guaranteed a win. Sure, they’ll get more effective strikes in, be better at spotting etc, and generally exert a greater influence on the outcome of the battle, but they alone can’t win the battle. That same unicum player jumps in a DD and I would bet my house on their team winning the battle. DD’s have a far higher skill ceiling than any other class of ship as they require levels of situational awareness and strategic foresight not needed in cruisers, battleships or aircraft carriers. For new and developing players the game offers very little in terms of the skills and tips needed to better their DD play, controlling objectives, spotting, avoiding CV's among a very long list. Then my biggest bug bear, I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had to demand that DD’s on my team turn their AA off at the start of a battle. On the point around balance and I why I think they are indeed balanced as this addresses your first argument in that CV’s don’t fit in the game. You argued that a CV player can spot and strike all without risking their ship, whereas surface ships can’t do the same. Ah, well, that’s the whole point of aircraft carriers!!! I do see your point that from a pure gaming perspective that doesn’t feel right, but again for a naval warfare game it requires acceptance that that’s how aircraft carriers work! That’s their thing and why there’s a 2 CV per team limit, and now with the rework players can only send in one strike at a time which is far more balanced than with the old RTS version. Your points on healable damage is interesting and I’m sure are just balance levers WG could pull to look at optimising the overall health of the game. WG did state early on that their focus for CV rework was look more at DOT vs alpha damage, so perhaps there’s something there. In terms of games with / without CV’s, playing on the Asia server where there is a high population of CV players my observation is that games without CV’s are more static and duller. Two teams camping behind islands is a total yawn fest; might be OK for competitive but not for random battles. Some of the best and most exciting games I’ve been a part of involve CV’s. The final thing to say concerns all your references to the highest levels of competitive play where in addition to encouraging you to think about the rest of the player base on this topic, not just the 1% of players that play at said levels. But the big question for me is, “…why can’t the best WOWS players in the world adapt or modify their gameplay and strategies to deal with or counter an aircraft carrier?” And use their own CV in the most effective way possible. I’m asking seriously here. I’ve played my share of clan battles and watched plenty of KOTS tournaments and even at my level I know I can’t play the Stalingrad, for example, the same way when there’s a CV in game vs not. Same with DD’s. I’d love to see the next KOTS with aircraft carriers because I’d love to see what the best players in WOWS come up with to win. This turned out to be a far longer response than intended, but I think it serves to illustrate that me and clearly many others care about the health and progress of the game. Thanks for reading.

Didn't even wait for the first word before liking the video. The title is enough.

CVs are like adding a bow and arrow character to a sword duelling game.

1. AA sector heavy buff (you noticed the CV squad and target it with all you have, as you would do with an enemy that just gets spotted close to you). 2. Slower planes, more durable to auto AA but less to AA sector, less ratio of "plane refill". 3. Not auto Damage Con on CVs, if you are set on fire, you have to come back and do it yourself. Just with these 3 you can "balance" CVs. If you want to make it more "fair", I would decrease the air spotting range of cruisers.

Excellent, logical balanced review - Totally agree that CV's massively spoil the current game & need to removed or radically changed - Well done

I don't think I need a "high level" of understanding to see that the CVs are shite, I'll admit I am a casual because I have a job and can't grind this game 8 hours a day like it's a job, but yea CV's don't belong and they are just the worst fun killer.

Only competent gamers and intelligent people are allowed to comment therefore wargaming staff are not allowed. Gottem dab dab dab

i agree 100% with your analysis sir. I HATE CVS they are all completely OP based on "not risking ship HP while being top dps easily." It takes no skill to have 90+% accuracy. No other ship can touch that.