Thank YOU for watching and commenting! And yes, Holmes often gets overlooked. I myself never played that edition; shortly after I began playing B/X, I discovered Advanced D&D, and was at a friend's house who had a beat up Holmes box but he said it was "just Basic" and I never looked at it. It wasn't until a few years ago that I began to delve into the edition and learn more about the special place it holds in the history of the game. I talk about it more in my videos on the History of D&D Editions kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iM2frNSXtdWxnqs.html and on the History of D&D Alignment & Planes kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mJyBeJiQvt_InGQ.html. Thanks again!

I really appreciate you saying that! My wife refers to my voice as "boring," but I will take "pleasant"! I'm so glad you're enjoying the videos. More to come!

Nice profile picture dude

Very much agree with this! And thank you for watching and commenting! I also like how, more than most other editions, it's easy to modify and tweak. And it's such a favorite of many old-school gamers that there is a ton of really creative content out there made for this edition, especially in the past ~10 years.

I love Old School Essentials and you'll be hearing more about that in my new video series! Once I discovered AD&D a little less than a year after I began playing B/X, I dismissed race-as-class as inferior. I never thought I'd go back, but I'm running a game that way for my daughter and her friends, and it's working great. (Caveat: They have no context for anything else as it's the only TTRPG they've ever played, so I don't know if they'd prefer separate race-and-class, but for now, they love it!).

Thank you! I really appreciate that. I think part of that is due to my extreme lack of technical knowledge and my very scraped together set-up (I'm recording all these on my phone and you'd laugh if you saw the set-up I had to make to get the overhead shots). Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate your support!

And no background music thank God.

@@goodbuddy7607 I actually have no idea how to even try to add something like that, but I'm glad you don't hold it against me!

Can't tell you how many videos I've shut off just because of the annoying and/or too-loud music.

Happy to help! And thank you so much for watching and commenting!

I know what you mean! I was introduced to the game via this edition through my friends at school, and couldn't stop looking at the pictures and reading about all the cool characters. I still have some old notebook papers that were school assignments, but on the back are written adventures that I passed back and forth in class with my DM! Thank you for watching and commenting! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!

Thank you so much for letting me know. I really appreciate that! And, thank you for watching and commenting.

I remember the books being sold separately (if I recall, they were $6.00 each, whereas the boxed set was $12.00). As you saw, my Expert book was purchased separately, although that was much later. I never had the "real" Expert set as a kid, but my dad kindly photocopied my friend's book for me on his office photocopy machine (which as an adult I now realize was an early form of piracy!). Thanks for watching and commenting!

Thank you so much! I have planned to do this in a video I'll be recording in the next week or so to celebrate reaching 5000 subscribers. One part of that video will be about old PCs including this one. Thanks for the idea! And thank you for watching and commenting!

That's so awesome you have Lords of Creation! I was never aware of that game until decades later when I acquired a copy of Lawrence Schick's book "Heroic Worlds" that mentioned it. Tom wrote quite a few D&D modules of which I was very fond, including B4: The Lost City, and X2: Castle Amber. Thank you for watching and commenting!

Thank you for watching and commenting! Yes, I still love that set all these years later. I think of all my RPG products (at least, ones I bought myself or were given "new" as a gift), it's in the most worn shape due to usage!

Thank you! I appreciate your support!

That sounds like a lot of fun! You can send me an email at samothdm at gmail and we can set something up! Thank you so much for watching and commenting!

@@daddyrolleda1 will-do

@@daddyrolleda1 mail sent sir

Thank you so much for watching and commenting! Yes, there is quite a bit left for a DM to create and fill out, especially with the Keep, although my copy that I showed in the video does have a (very rudimentary) map of the Keep on Page 16. For the game I run for my daughter, I found a 3D map of the Keep online and I added some extra buildings and such to where it's much bigger, almost like a small city. I know what you mean about the side-view map in the Basic book. It always confused me as a kid, even though I liked the idea of seeing all the stuff below the Haunted Keep, but it's not really explained at all how to use it!

Welcome to the channel, and thank you so much for watching, commenting, and subscribing! I'm really glad you're here and I look forward to chatting with you in the comments. Cheers!

Okay, I can definitely do that! Anything specific, or just an overview like this one? And thank you for watching and commenting!

Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate the support! My journey was very similar to yours, although it looks like I started a little bit earlier with this Moldvay Basic set vs. the "Black Box" you started with (I talk about that one in my "History of D&D Editions" video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iM2frNSXtdWxnqs.html) but shortly thereafter learned about 1E and the separation of race-and-class which I immediately thought was superior. And it took me until a few years ago to come back around to appreciating race-as-class. I do that for my daughter's game, and there have been no complaints, although to be fair, they have no context as they've never played another RPG. DCC is great! I don't play it as it, but use a lot of its ideas and tables in the game I run for my daughter and her friends.

Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it. It took me a long time to come around to this point of view. I started with Moldvay, but after a few years, thought that it was "for kids" and I focused on the "more serious" 1E. When 3E came along, I decided race-as-class made no sense. I finally came full circle back to my roots and realized how elegant the B/X system is, and I'm so glad to be running it for my daughter and her friends!

Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I do very much of the same! Even back in the day, we ran a B/X game mashed with a lot of the stuff from 1E because we didn't really understand they were supposed to be two separate games, so we used the combat, encounters, and exploration rules from B/X but the race, class, spells, weapons, etc., from AD&D and ignored inconsistencies. These days for my daughter's game, I run B/X using Old School Essentials, and also incorporate stuff from Old School Essentials Advanced, as well as some house rules from other editions including 2E, 3.5, and 5E. I own the 4E and 5E books also, but only played them each about twice. I'm happy to play pretty much any edition, but in terms of running a game, right now I'm preferring B/X.

@@daddyrolleda1 Yeah, when I was looking at OCE, I ended up buying the Advanced Fantasy version... because it is about as close as I have seen anywhere to the game we already play. lol ;-) Really great layout in those books. About the best I have seen, to be honest.

Fantastic! Great to hear that! And thank you for watching and commenting!

@@daddyrolleda1 You're welcome! Great videos. Like you, I started with Moldvay Basic in 1981!

@@dmcdraws Moldvay Basic Club for the win! We should make t-shirts and membership cards!

Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it! And thank you for sharing your story! I love hearing how people got into the hobby and what their journey was. Looks like you and I are the same age! I recall after I discovered Moldvay Basic that a friend had Holmes Basic, but by that time, I'd also discovered AD&D, so I didn't spend much time looking at his Holmes book. I wish I had! And I love Old School Essentials! I have both Classic Fantasy and Advanced and it's what I actually use at the table to run the game for my daughter, which saves my old Basic Boxed Set from getting damaged from greasy fingers or spilled soda! Thanks again!

That's awesome! My grandmother got me a gift subscription to Dragon magazine starting with issue #90 (October 1984) which I kept up all the way through to the last print issue (#359) even after she passed away. Thanks for watching and commenting!

Thank you! I love hearing that you discovered the edition through Old School Essentials. It's such a great game and it's actually what I use at my table for the game I run for my daughter (although when I was prepping the campaign, I used my Basic boxed set). That way, I don't have to worry about food or drinks being spilled on my old set, and also the layout of OSE is far superior in terms of finding things quickly at the table. Thanks for watching and commenting!

That can be very tough on a starting player. At least you stuck with it! What was your second character? Another Magic-user?

Thank you so much! I was really surprise that it happened so quickly, especially after talking to other folks and having set an expectation that it would take nearly a year. Thank you for your support!

Ha! I remember those days and trying to put one over on the DM!

Oh wow! I was in 6th Grade when I got this boxed set! D&D was around (barely) when I was in 1st Grade but I'd not heard of it until years later.

A few people have commented on that, and I do try really hard to keep my books in good shape despite constant use. The Player's Handbook, for whatever reason, has always retained its shiny cover. I'm not sure if it was something to do with that particular printing or what. Thanks for commenting and for your support of the channel!

This is very similar to my experiences in terms of the AD&D part. I borrowed a friend's PHB for probably a year or more before getting my own, and the only time I saw the DMG was when I checked it out at the local library. But then after I returned it, when I went back to check it out again, someone had checked it out and never returned it. Thanks for all your comments lately! I'm really glad you found my channel!

Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed it, and it's nice to meet a fellow Moldvay fan who also has his original boxed sets. Thanks for watching and commenting!

Very cool! I had friends who cut their books up and organized them in a 3-ring binder, too, but I could never bring myself to do that!

Glad to have provided some good memories for you! Thanks for watching and commenting!

It's funny you say that, because I did have a similar experience. When I saw the Easley paintings for the 1E revised rulebooks, and Caldwell paintings on Dragon magazine, I began to think of the Erol Otus illustrations as being inferior, but as I've grown, I've come to appreciate his style and also how he brings a sense of "weirdness" that I like in my fantasy. Thanks for watching and commenting!

same here

Similar experience here. At first I'd look at Otus's work with derision: "Nobody would ever wear a helmet with great big antlers. And even if they did, they wouldn't pair with a pointy-shouldered vest!" But then I noticed that, at the table, my imagination was picturing the game's events in Erol Otus style!

Yup! That's Holmes Basic (edited by Eric J. Holmes)!

Thank you so much! I really appreciate that, and especially appreciate you watching and commenting!

They did sell the items separately, and there was also a time in the mid-80's that TSR was selling packages of previously printed materials at a discounted price. I acquired many of my modules in that format, so it's possible that's why. In any event, great that you got it! And thank you for watching and commenting!

I am so glad you found my channel, and I thank you so much for watching, commenting, and sharing your RPG story! I love hearing about people's initial exposure to the game and their thoughts at the time. I think, at this point, my daughter's main interest in the game lies in "scheduled time to hang out with her friends." The friends she plays with now are ones she's known since Daycare or Kindergarten, but none of them go to the same schools with each other, so D&D is one of the only times they see each other. She doesn't talk about the game outside of actual game time, like I would have at her age! But, my hope is that she sees I'm doing this *for* her so she and I can spend time doing something together, which has become more difficult the older she gets and develops her own interests. I suspect when she's older, she'll look back with fondness on this time, however long it lasts. Thank you again, and I hope you stick around to find other videos you like!

Yes, I am very lucky that I never threw out any of my old character sheets! If you see my video on Skills, you'll see one of my old 1E Paladin characters on the official gold-colored AD&D sheets!

I appreciate that so much, and I think there's room for all kinds of content on here. You have your own niche, and I certainly don't have the stamina or skill to have have written a full fantasy novel to share with folks like you have. Cheers!

Thank you very much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it! As a kid, I quickly became much more enchanted by Advanced D&D, so I can understand and relate to getting rid of your B/X stuff to make money to buy more Advanced books. It wasn't until I was adult that I began to see the eloquence of the B/X system.

@@daddyrolleda1 yep I have always regreted selling them, although certainly making up for it now. Keep up the great work. .

Thank you so much! I really appreciate your support, and you watching and commenting! I hope you enjoy some of the other videos as well. More to come soon!

I tend to take really good care of my stuff, including books, comics, and games. I even kept all my boxes that my Lego sets came in (unfolded and pressed flat) and the backs of every Star Wars figure I ever bought (some are missing the proof-of-purchase that I mailed in to get my free figures, like Boba Fett, sadly without the jet pack that actually fired a missile). And yes, one day, my entire D&D/TTRPG collection will go to my daughter. I do hope she'll want to keep it!!!

Those early dice were notorious for all getting rounded off, particularly the D20, after years of use! It's such a fun system and I'm glad to be running it again for my daughter and her friends. Thanks for watching and commenting!

I bring the die out occasionally as a lark, back when we were playing 2nd edition AD&D my players dubbed it "Old Rollee" because it would tend to go right off the table if it didn't hit something. Thanks for the fascinating content!

Mine, too! Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I really appreciate it!

@@daddyrolleda1 will you be making a video on the expert set?

That's a fun way of looking at it!

@@daddyrolleda1 in retrospect, yes But I thought it was canon! 🥴

Oh wow - Rolemaster! One of my favorite DM's mom refused to let him play D&D in the 80's because it was "satanic" but she was cool with Rolemaster, MERP, and Champions! I myself never had the fortune of playing those games. Thank you so much for watching and commenting!

Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it! I, too, tried to get my sister and parents to play, to no avail. I still have their character sheets I created for them. My dad made a Fighter cleverly named "Rocky," my sister a Magic-user named Estelline, and my mom an Elf named Pokaro. I tried to DM them through an adventure but they were just completely thrown by the idea of there being no board and no official moves or anything like that. So, I mainly played with my friends by passing notes back and forth during class until we got to the weekend and then every once in a while we'd go to someone's house and play for a few hours before watching a movie or Late Night with David Letterman. I know there are a lot of solo RPGs out there, but I've never really explored them.

They're both great and 99.99% compatible! There's a reason I've gone back to running this system for my daughter's campaign. Another reason is that so much creative stuff coming out from the old-school movement is designed, at least generally, to be compatible with B/X, giving me access to a lot of new ideas. Thanks for watching and commenting.

A few years after I'd been introduced to D&D, we did a D&D sleepover at a friend's house, and in his room, I saw the Holmes Boxed Set (the 1977 one you mention) that I'd never seen before. For whatever reason, at the time as a kid, it didn't really grab me, but I was very intrigued by his beat up copy of Greyhawk: Supplement I, which was my first exposure to Original D&D. He said I could have it, and to this day, I still have it! Thanks for watching and commenting!

What a great story! Thank you for sharing! It sounds like you were probably playing either Original D&D or perhaps Holmes Basic, but incorporating articles from Dragon magazine (Ranger, Illusionist, and Bard all appeared in the Strategic Review and/or Dragon before being made official in the 1978 Advanced D&D Player's Handbook - I have a video about those classes). Original D&D and Holmes Basic allowed any race to be a Thief, but otherwise, Dwarves and Halflings had to be Fighters, and Elves and Half-Elves were Fighter/Magic-Users. Gnomes did not debut as an official player character class until the 1978 PHB. My group in Junior High School consisted of the art kids and the "almost drop-outs" but then my family moved states (and schools, obviously) and it took me awhile to find a group, but in High School that group consisted of a wide cross section: our school's Valedictorian and Salutatorian, me (I was in the Top 10 of our school at graduation), a guy whose brother had been expelled for fighting, stealing, and drug-use, and a computer whiz who had no social skills and who oddly was doing very poorly in school despite being exceptionally smart. We all just kind of "found" each other. Thanks again!

Thank you so much! I always appreciate when you watch and comment. Cheers!

Me too!

I have that one and Holmes Edition

So many other games I got back in the 80's were all percentile based games, like Star Frontiers, Top Secret, and Marvel Super Heroes, and all of them came with two different colored D10s numbered 0-9! I have way more of those than I do ones numbers with 10's!

@@daddyrolleda1 Yup 😆

I honestly thought I'd screw up my dice if I used the crayon! Not sure why I was so anxious about it!

@@daddyrolleda1 Yeah, I was too. That’s why I imagined the Brett and Jermaine. Cheers!

Oh, yeah, that would've definitely been rare at that point! The color-in dice were pretty short lived; by the time Gamma World 2nd Edition game out in 1983 (just 2 years after the dice shown in this video), my boxed set came with multi-colored dice all with the numbers printed in black ink.

Thank you so much! I really appreciate that! And yes, I'm a bit of a packrat (as you saw, not only do I have my original dice, but also my very first character sheet!). But I'm very organized - all my old D&D notes, maps, drawings, characters, etc., are all in different file folders, color-coded, with labels/tabs, in my filing cabinet.

Thank you so much! I really appreciate that, and I just returned the favor. Looking forward to going through some of your AD&D videos like the one on Descent Into the Depths of the Earth. Cheers!

That's great you had that edition! All these years later, I've still not added a copy of the Holmes Basic Set to my collection.

Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed it! I had a lot of fun putting that one together.

The separation of race and class started in Original D&D after the Greyhawk supplement came out, and the Thief class was introduced (as the rules noted that dwarves, elves, halflings, and half-elves could all be Thieves with no level limits, in addition to acting as Fighters for Dwarves and Halflings or Fighter/Magic-Users for Elves and Half-Elves). Holmes Basic kept that distinction by allowing demi-humans to be Thieves as well. AD&D also separated race and class but opened up the options a bit more (half-elves could be rangers, all races could also be assassins, etc.). It was the B/X (Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert) that first made a race-as-class version of the game. That was the one I started with but we quickly began incorporating rules from AD&D into our game. Thank you very much for watching and commenting!

Ha! It's been ~43 years... I think at this point I'll just leave them. I'm glad I found the crayon, though. I thought I'd lost it years ago. Thanks for watching and commenting!

We started at almost the exact same time! And yes, the B/X system has become the favorite of the OSR community, and I've also returned to it after thinking, back in the 80's, that it was "for kids." Thanks for sharing your history of playing the game. I always enjoy reading about other people's experiences!

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thank you so much for watching and commenting! And do let me know if there are other topics you'd like to see me delve into more. Thanks!

I agree with all of this! Tom Moldvay was a great designer, and I really gravitate toward the pulp-style adventures he wrote for D&D in addition to this version of the rules. I've also really been liking the 7-class system from Moldvay. It's working really well in the game I run for my daughter and her friends. Thank you for watching and commenting!

@@daddyrolleda1 Pulp D&D is the best D&D cough cough Conan cough cough. Out of curiosity what is your favorite Moldvay Module? Mine is B4: The Lost City it takes a particular kind of genius to fit an epic campaign into 28 pages, Keep on the Borderlands has the same page count yet isn't as packed full of content. X2: Castle Amber is close by a razor thin margin and I would be remiss if I didn't mention B3: Palace of the Silver Princess though it can't be completely credited to him, though I think he learned a lot from what Jean Wells made that led to Castle Amber's brilliance. As for you running a game for your daughter that is very sweet and a great way to bond with your child. You're welcome for the comments when I find a KZfaqr that I like and I feel deserves more recognition I try to appease the algorithm gods. They require tributes of likes and comments.

This is such a great comment! You hit my favorite Tom Moldvay module - B4: The Lost City. I recall when I got that adventure, on vacation once again in Denver (my dad went there a lot when we were kids, for business, and we'd often tag along to make it a "vacation"). I was at the Waldenbooks at the local mall and my dad's cousin's wife saw me looking at the module, and she bought it for me. It's long been one of my favorites. Not sure if you ever watch the KZfaq channel DungeonCraft with Professor Dungeon Master, but he's going to be doing a series soon about his B4 campaign and I'm really looking forward to it! Thanks again for your support. I truly appreciate it!

@@daddyrolleda1 Awesome yeah B4 is my favorite module of all time, I'm glad you are a man of culture and taste. As for Professor Dungeon Master I used to watch him and thought his content was alright but then he did a video where he tried to argue that 5E combat is just as lethal as BX combat. When someone says something that is so delusional and false they lose credibility to me and I find it hard to be interested in their other content and opinions. I have a disdain for 5E and the mentally/community, this is mostly due to my experience with playing with 5E players and maybe that's just my experience. I don't run 5E anymore because of how bad it got and I don't want to go back so I get annoyed whenever someone tries to justify 5Es philosophy but just my personal opinion.

I loved that picture as a kid, and honestly spent way too much time trying to figure out which of the characters was Chaotic and which was Neutral (the cleric seemed to be the Lawful one). Most folks would say the thief-looking character who is trying to stab the goblin (?) is Chaotic and the fighter who is looking away is Neutral, but I also thought it was possible the Thief was Neutral and just doing what made the most sense, dispassionately dispatching a goblin whom they couldn't afford to leave there but also couldn't bring along with them for fear of him revealing their position and/or trying to escape, etc. And then the Fighter's kind of reveling in the Chaos, smugly enjoying the moment. Probably not a great interpretation, but 13yo me was confused!

@@daddyrolleda1 whoa! I never thought about it that way To me it was clearly: "I wanna kill 'im." (Chaos) - "No, you mustn't!" (Law) - "Whatever, {yawn} hurry up." (Neutrality)

Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it. And wow - I have never seen a rulebook that wasn't three-hole punched! When did you get your copies? I've found a few people here in the comments who didn't know what the crayons were for - glad to have helped answer that mystery!

@@daddyrolleda1 I do not know where it came from exactly. Probably my relative that worked at the print shop. Maybe one that did not get punched and put into a box? I am going to be cleaning out some closets for my parents (house I grew up in). Maybe I will find the box.

@@richardtorpy7881 I bet you have all kinds of treasures that folks would drool over! An unpunched copy of this would be a rarity, I would think. I've never seen or even heard of one. Not that you're looking to get rid of it, but if you could provide provenance, I suspect you could make quite a pretty penny on an auction site.

I remember something in the box saying that the crayon was for the dice, but the crayons still left my dice unreadable.

Totally get where you're coming from, and I do always struggle with wanting more classes in a class-and-level system, but also knowing that too many classes begins to bog down the game and also create more and more niche classes that are only good in certain situations. For B/X, I've created three new classes (Alchemist, Demolitionist, and Inventor) that I think are different enough to stand apart (one could argue that an Alchemist could simply just be a magic-user using potions/items versus spells, but I wanted them to be different). And, I'm finishing up a new spell list that can be used for an "alternate" magic-user (like a sorcerer, maybe) but also makes a good spell-list for elves to help differentiate them from human magic-users. Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it!

@@drzander3378 I basically picked all the sizes and options they have available. Sometimes certain colors have fewer options but they should go from XS all the way to 5XL and some also have "long" versions as well. Let me know what you're looking for and I'll see what I can do. You can send me an email at samothdm AT gmail DOT com if you want.

Race-as-class is something that seems to bug a lot of people, and I used to think it wasn't great when I was a kid, but I've come back around and am using that mechanic in the B/X game I run for my daughter and her friends. Thanks for watching and commenting!

I think "friendlier" is a great way to put it. It definitely is more approachable for a younger audience, I think. The AD&D font and layout, to me, looks more like a text book. As a kid, though, I thought the AD&D books were really cool because I felt like an adult just reading them, with all the fancy words and such! There's a website out there that codifies and provides examples of all the fonts used across every edition of D&D if you can find it. It's really interesting.

Ha! Yeah, I really thought "what if I screw this up? What am I going to tell my mom? How am I going to get more dice?" Silly, I know, but I was a bit of an anxious kid! Nice to meet another Moldvay Basic fan!

Oh no! Hopefully that didn't prevent you from continuing to play! If you ever wanted to replace it, I have actually seen folks selling just the box on 3rd party sites and places like Ebay. Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really enjoy hearing about how people got into the hobby and their RPG journey. Cheers!

It does indeed. My biggest TTRPG "loss" is having let a friend borrow "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness" by Palladium. I'm not even a TMNT fan but that book had a lot of fun ideas in it. I eventually forgot whom I let borrow it and now it's lost to time.

Yes, definitely. For whatever reason, it seems to be a "hot button" with folks who don't like that a class that's already got a leg-up due to bonuses from high ability scores *also* gets another bonus in XP. But, I don't tend to worry about that kind of that too much.

@@daddyrolleda1 instead of saying good at what he does I should have said they have an innate ability and they advance a little faster. Some guys are just extra talented compared to the norm in any given profession. I never realized people had issues with it.

@@swirvinbirds1971 I think it's mainly folks who are used to more modern systems. I don't recall folks back in the day complaining about it.

Ah, Morgan Ironwolf... 😀

I got mine in Easter 1982 but had started playing in late fall/early winter 1981. Cheers!

Thanks for watching and commenting! For my game, I use Old School Essentials as it's the most direct translation of the B/X rules, but with much better layout to use at the table. That said, I also use ideas from Labyrinth Lord, Lamentations of the Flame Princess, DCC, Hyperborea, OSE Advanced Fantasy, 2E, 5E, Index Card RPG, and MÖRK BORG, just to name a few. But as far as which retroclone best captures B/X, it's Old School Essentials, hands-down.

Ha! To answer the second part of your question... almost everybody I have met in the "old school" scene played EXACTLY the same way you and your friends did (including me)! I started with B/X and when we discovered AD&D, we just assumed it was an extension (not a separate game) so we dropped in the new classes and races and spells and weapons, increased the Hit Dice, and ignored everything else. We *never* used Weapon Speed Factors or Weapon vs AC or anything like that. This is a perfect example of how people will refer to pre-3E D&D as being "rules light," but to me, AD&D is *more* complex than 3E! The first part of our question is a bit more complicated, but in general: * AD&D combat rounds add the complexity of "segments" (1 second, or 1/10 of a round) with the first six segments being devoted to Initiative stuff. B/X does not have this level of complexity. Actually, I was going to type this all out, but I would refer to: 1) This document which details and annotates the D&D order of combat: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/knights-n-knaves.com/dmprata/ADDICT.pdf It's multiple pages with exceptions and clarifications and details. 2) The B/X Order of Combat can be read from the Old School Essential SRD (Old School Essentials is a retro-clone of B/X but the rules are 99.9999% faithful but just cleaning up the layout and also reconciling any discrepancies between Basic and Expert, of which there are just a small handful): oldschoolessentials.necroticgnome.com/srd/index.php/Combat#Combat_Sequence_Per_Round The B/X order is much cleaner and simplistic, but it would rely on a DM to make a ruling for situations it doesn't cover, whereas AD&D seeks to create fringe, specific rules for every minute situation that could possibly come up in combat (but, to me, still fails at trying to do so and adds in unnecessary complexity).

Thanks for the response!

Thanks for watching and commenting! I'm actually working on an entire video on this subject (it's been requested a lot). While mechanically OD&D with just the three first books (no supplements) work out close to "race-as-class," it wasn't really *presented* that way in the books. The rules say that if you want to play a Dwarf (for example), you "may opt only for the fighting class." Once you add Supplement I: Greyhawk and the Thief class, the rules allow any non-human race to operate as a Thief as well. Holmes Basic continues this by saying Dwarves, Elves, and Halflings can be Thieves (but it does say to refer to AD&D for rules on demi-human bonuses or penalties for Thief abilities). It wasn't until Moldvay that the language became specific. You're no long playing a Dwarf *Fighter.* You're playing a Dwarf. Again, I do take your point: mechanically, there's pretty much no difference. But it's more about presentation of the rules, plus by the time Moldvay comes out in 1981, the Thief class had existed for 6 years but they opted not to allow non-humans to operate in the class.

Thank you so much for watching and commenting! And I'm really excited to hear that you're planning a game with your 10 year-old son and nephew! My daughter was just barely past 10 years old when I started my campaign for her and her friends (she's 14 now). Someone else suggested this idea of differences in rules between editions, so it's definitely something I can tackle in a video. It's a great topic idea. So you don't have to wait too long, here's a *very short* rundown, as I see it: - Basic (B/X) is more streamlined and much more open to DM rulings. It doesn't attempt to create a rule for everything. - Basic has "race as class" so you play an Elf or a Dwarf, not an Elf Thief or Dwarf Wizard, for example. It's based on the initial concepts from OD&D and the idea was that these "race-as-classes" represented the "quintessential" version of that race. - Basic has no multi-classing or dual-classing - AD&D is *much* more complex. Weapon speed factors, Weapon vs AC, Combat Rounds broken down into "Segments" with different actions on different segments, etc. It adds more races and more classes but has (what appear to be) arbitrary rules on which race can operate as which class, limitations on multi-classing, demi-human level limits, and more. Humans can "dual class" (start as one class, then switch to another class, but they start over from scratch, losing their attack bonuses, saves, etc., - everything except their HP, *until* the second class surpasses the first class in level, at which point you can combine the abilities from both classes. It's *very* clunky). - AD&D *attempts* to have a rule for everything, but that's really impossible, so it ends up creating odd situations where you'd assume a rule should exist, but can't find it, unlike in Basic where you know it's your job as the DM to make a ruling and then be consistent about applying the rule going forward. - Many rules that players need in AD&D are actually in the Dungeon Masters Guide, not the Players Handbook. It's counter-intuitive. - Old School Essentials Classic Fantasy takes the 1981 B/X rules (Basic and Expert) and re-states them with all new layout and organization, but without changing the rules. The only *changes* come about due to inconsistencies between the original Basic and Expert rules. In those cases, Old School Essentials has to pick which one was "correct" - they usually default to whatever was done in BECMI or the Rules Cyclopedia. These changes are very minimal, however. The layout is done to make is much easier to find certain rules - key topics are presented on two-page spreads (e.g., each character class is presented as a 2-page spread, to prevent page-flipping, etc.). * Old School Essentials Advanced Fantasy seeks to take the fun new ideas from Advanced D&D, such as the new races, classes, weapons, spells, monsters, and treasures, and craft them using B/X mechanics. This means simplifying many things while retaining the "flavor" of AD&D. There are also rules in here for separating race-and-class and for multi-classing, so if that's something you'd like, but you want to retain the elegance of the B/X rules engine, then OSE Advanced Fantasy is for you. It's honestly very close to how I played the game back in the early to mid-80's before I understood that B/X and Advanced were two separate games. I hope that helps you out, but please feel free to ask other questions! And also you may want to check out my Campaign Prep videos - they're all about the game I run for my daughter and her friends: kzfaq.info/sun/PLX6jue56rzl2-VzZH19Ke2NU4r0IaJ7be

@@daddyrolleda1 Amazing answer! Thank you!! Are the B/X modules compatible with OSEs? Also, I agree your voice is well suited for conveying this subject matter and your videos are great!

@@pscaglione3 I'm glad it helped! And yes, anything created for B/X is 100% compatible with OSE. And, you could also use pretty much any BECMI module with OSE as well. I tend to play a little "fast-and-loose" so in my daughter's game, they went through B2: Keep on the Borderlands (created for Basic) but they just finished that so now they've traveled to a little fishing town called Saltmarsh and I'm using the old *Advanced* D&D Module U1: Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh. Even though it was made for Advanced, it's pretty easy to convert on the fly and ignore the stuff that isn't part of Basic. I really appreciate your support. Thank you!

That is a great question, and could even make a somewhat short video topic! But, to answer your question: Alignment languages debuted in Original D&D (the three little brown books or "White Box"), and were kept through the so-called "Basic" editions of the game (Holmes / Moldvay / Mentzer / Rules Cyclopedia, etc.) and were also a part of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st Edition. They disappear by the time 2nd Edition Advanced D&D is published. The idea was that characters could speak this language and thus identify and converse in secret with others of their alignment. Additionally, while not being able to speak Lawful, for example, a Chaotic character/creature could identify that the other person was speaking Lawful and thereby identify them as an enemy. In Original D&D (and its "Basic" descendants), there were three alignment languages: Lawful, Neutrality, and Chaotic. In AD&D, this got expanded to there being a total of nine alignment languages to match the nine-point alignment system. While Gary originally says that creatures/characters can converse in these languages (as though they were "full" operating languages), in the Advanced D&D Dungeon Master's Guide from 1979, he backtracks on this a bit and says: "...alignment languages are the special set of signs, signals, gestures, and words which intelligent creatures use to inform other intelligent creatures of the same alignment of their fellowship and common ethos. Alignment languages are NEVER flaunted in public. They are not used as salutations or interrogatives if the speaker is uncertain of the alignment of those addressed. Furthermore, alignment languages are of limited vocabulary and deal with the ethos of the alignment in general, so lengthy discussion of varying subjects cannot be conducted in such tongues." In this section, he talks about secret languages, such as Thieves' Cant and secret organizations using "signs, signals, and recognition phrases" to communicate (much like the Freemasons, for example - that's my addition, not Gary's). Gary then goes on to equate alignment languages as being similar to how priests of the medieval Catholic Church communicated via Latin as a common language to cut across cultural boundaries. He also makes it clear that you cannot learn an alignment language from an alignment you don't belong to, and if you switch alignments, you lose the ability to communicate in your former alignment language. He doesn't explain why or how you'd forget, but "mechanically" your character can no longer speak that language. All this, to me, makes it clear that had hadn't really thought through the exact usage and background for alignment languages, and was later trying to retcon the idea after so many people asked questions about it. Hope that helps explain it a bit!

@@daddyrolleda1 Huh. Thanks for the explanation! Did you ever use alignment languages in your games?

Ha - you would honestly laugh if you could see my set up. It's quite ridiculous as I'm just using my phone, a few boxes stacked up, and yard-sticks placed across to hold my phone. It's not very stable but with the space I have, it's the only solution I could think of. I know it's not professional but it seems to be getting the job done.

@@daddyrolleda1 ill try it out

Thank you so much! I"m so glad you found my channel and have been enjoying my content. And I really appreciate you leaving a comment! For years (decades!) I felt the same way about race-as-class. As soon as I discovered 1E, I decided B/X D&D was "for kids" and long held to the idea that not having Dwarf Clerics or Halfling Thieves made no sense. I've come around a bit to the mechanical elegance of the design now for the game I'm running for my daughter, and it certainly made it easier to help the players get started playing, as they had no context of D&D or the idea of splitting race-from-class. However, all that said, I think as they continue to play and introduce new characters, I may end up using Old School Essentials "Advanced Fantasy," which has an option for splitting race from class. We'll see! Thank you again!

I'm not sure about cheaper but I think back then no companies had dice with the numbers already filled in (I could be completely wrong on this, though). In any event, TSR's dice didn't have that capability at the time, it seems. Filling them in my hand would've been prohibitively expensive. Eventually, of course, they switched to dice that were created with the numbers already pre-painted.

I didn’t mention my reason for discounting that it is called basic makes it seem like it was not as sophisticated when it was cashed that more for the levels it covered

@@Mellence Oh, I totally get it. I first learned with this set, but only a few months after, I was exposed to the "Advanced" set, and the marketing of that name totally captivated my friends and me, who thought we were special for playing that edition. Of course, what we actually did was incorporate "Advanced" stuff like new classes, races, spells, and weapons into the "Basic" game we were playing, because we didn't actually read the rules to understand they were technically different games. And while they are fundamentally similar, there are a series of mechanical things that are different enough that they're technically not *exactly* compatible. These days, I don't worry about that, and am back to mix-and-matching both versions in the game I run for my daughter and her friends. Nobody knows any different.

I don't play video games, but while I started playing with this 1981 boxed set, in terms of actual number of hours of playing, I've played the most of 3E/3.5. Finding a group can be super hard. I was lucky to have one that consisted of my kid and the people she met in preschool (but who are all high schoolers now, but we kept in touch with them and their parents over the years). I hope this doesn't sound pedantic in case you've tried these options, but if you considered a D&D MeetUp, or visiting a local game store to see if they have a "new player's night" or posting an ad on a message board or whatever social media thing the kids are using these days? Also... thank you so much for watching and commenting! You are always welcome here to chat about the characters you've made and any other things you'd like to chat about.

@@daddyrolleda1 a lot of people in my area play 5th edition which I don’t mind but it’s not my preferred edition. Also sorry for so many typos, I’m glad you were still able to understand me! I’ve contemplated doing some effort to make it work in Tabletop Simulator or Fantasy Grounds to my liking but that still needs a group to do it, though remote groups are easier to find like minded individuals than just whatever is in my area

@@Mellence I understood you just fine! No worries! You'll find a group soon - I'm sure of it! Hang in there, and happy gaming! I do get it that it's more difficult to find groups more interested in playing earlier editions. But they are out there.

I'm totally fine with race-as-class myself, and it's working great in the game I run for my daughter, but I do see many comments from folks that usually focus on, "Why can't dwarves have clerics?" kind of thing. I always figured Dwarves *do* have priests, but they don't cast spells or heal like human clerics. It's just a profession for them, but in terms of their role in society, they *act* like a human cleric. Thanks for watching and commenting!

I actually quite like all the different editions for different reasons, but I do think it would be nice if they kept them in print and supported them (although 3rd parties are supporting older editions and creating stuff that is, to me, way more creative that the corporate stuff that's currently coming out). I liked Kits in 2E as well as all the settings and historical guides. I really liked 3E/3.5 at the time and it was the first time in playing that I felt like I understood the math underlying the game so I got how things "worked." I loved all the player options (although now as a DM I am far less enthused with them). 4E wasn't my favorite, but I think had it been marketed differently and perhaps not even called D&D but instead a tactical war game, it could've done better. And I do think 5E has a lot of interesting mechanics and I like that they consulted with old-school players and designers to recapture some of the feel of older editions. I've used source books, such as Neverlands, that were created for 5E, in the B/X game I run for my daughter and her friends and have been able to convert everything on-the-fly with no problem. I'm okay with innovation and development of the system. I tend to think that the mechanics behind B/X, particularly stuff like side initiative, order of combat, encounters, and exploration rules, are actually *better* than AD&D and easier to run, but they were developed after AD&D! 😀

@@daddyrolleda1 I like everything you said, but we all know why "new editions" are made; even why 1e was made, but here's my point; every "edition" of D&D is just D&D with a different set of house rules 🙂

@@Lightmane This is a good point - and yes, of course the publisher needs to make new editions to sell stuff. It makes sense. Also, over the past ~25 years especially, the audience has changed. More players come to TTRPGs via video games, and that, I think, creates a certain expectation of what the game "should" be. It's why things like multiple death saves, more character options and abilities (for "builds"), and tougher characters exist. It's clearly working, as 5E is the biggest edition ever in terms of sales and players. It's not for me, but that's okay partially because of what you said - it's all just "D&D with house rules." I use stuff from 5E, like Advantage/Disadvantage, in the B/X game I run for my daughter. I use Kits from 2E for some of my NPCs. I often use things like "bonus actions" from 5E for the monsters as well (to allow, for example, a goblin and shoot, move, and hide). I'm fine for new editions to come out, because I'll probably just treat it like a Chinese Menu and take what I want (or, most like in the case of 5.5/OneD&D/WhateverThey'reCallingIt, choose to order from a different restaurant altogether) because I still have all the editions I prefer to play and those aren't going anywhere. In fact, support for them is even MORE now that it was when I was a kid, with 3rd Parties & the OSR Community creating more content for 1E, B/X, etc. than I could ever use in a lifetime. So, my like or dislike of 5E, to me, becomes irrelevant. Others can totally like it, and if someone wanted to run a game of 5E, I would totally play in it. I just wouldn't choose to run it myself. 😀

@@daddyrolleda1 I totally agree with everything you just said. I'd love to play a 5e game sometime, and if I ever do, then I'll modify the rules to my liking and run my own 5e campaign, though it would be more like 1e/2e, so 5e players might not like it. Then again, maybe they'd like it more : ) Hey, I hope you're still listening to my story. If you are, if you could leave a comment every now and then, letting me know what you thought of a certain chapter, I'd really appreciate it. Love talking D&D, and I love talking about the story that I wrote. I've finally gotten back to working on book two, and have posted the first 2 chapters, but don't listen to them until you've finished book 1, obviously. Don't want to spoil anything : )

@@Lightmane Yes, will do! Thanks! I also saw your videos on 5E vs 1E. I had seen you post on FB but I was at a place where it wasn't convenient to comment at the time, and then I couldn't remember which FB group I'd seen it in. If you ever to run a 5E game, I would recommend using either Five Torches Deep or 5E Hardcore Mode to run it. Both are designed to run 5E in a more old-school manner, which I think you might appreciate.

I do recall reading that somewhere as well, but I can't find the quote now.

With the way the new games are designed, it'd be better to have class only, and race as purely flavor text for how your character looks with a few worked examples of common templates in the world and cultures dominated by those phenotypes. With the older games, I almost think it might've been better if it was just races and no classes. The Human "class" would essentially be a Fighter with Use Magic Items (able to be "a wizard" by accruing a spellbook and staff, using wands and scrolls in the meantime), the Halfling would be a little more sneaky and less warrior-like, the likes of Elves and Gnomes as your spellcasters, and so on.