Excellent advice this has been my hobby for over 40 years - the best advice is to get your speakers and amplification done first. My current power amp is a Krell KSA-50S (circa 1990) no reason a good amp can't last more than 33 years!

I think there is much more to be gained from having a separate DAC to keep the digital components away from the analog amplifier circuits than from eliminating the loss from the 12 inches if RCA cable, particularly if what you are worried about is the cables not being 'high end'" enough.

Thank you for the video. After decades in this hobby the only thing I would not recommend is going the integrated route with the amplifier. Unless you are willing to invest well above $1k for an amp, you are getting a built in mediocre DAC. I've heard it in system after system and it's really easy to hear. And then, there's no upgrade path.

Integrated is fine if you want cheaper but not necessarily will give you better DAC sound quality performance by eliminating cables. Just buy some decent XLR cables and be done with it. The SQ will improve with separates by keeping the amp separate from the sensitive digital components will help more than avoiding cables.

You can always look towards what equipment may be available in the future, instead of buying what is right for you today. Personally, I like the Chord DACs, but the price balance between the Streamer, DAC, Amp and Speakers needs to be relative. The mainstream DACs (ESS/AKM) are fine when you are building a sub £1k system, but as you climb the tree as an audiophile, you need a dedicated Streamer with a digital out, allowing the separate DACs to be utilised. I have grown my system over the years, now I run an Eversolo Streamer (optical out sounds best), through a Chord Hugo/M-Scaler DAC combo, into a Michi X3 and finally to a pair of B&W 804 D4s and a pair B&W DB4S subwoofers (tuned for the 804 D4s). It sounds stunning 🙂

Part of what you're describing is not at all limited to DACs and streamers re: pricing. I've been a high end dealer for almost 30 years. Doubling amplifier power will increase your output by 3db. So.. 20-40 3db, 200-400 3db, et., etc. I think the same kind of thing often applies to increasing your budget. So, $2k to 4k to 8k will often given you the same kind of level of improvement at each step.

I was just considering buying a streamer, and yes, you're right, just connecting my macbook air to my Cambridge dac into my Cambridge amp will expand the possibilities without expending more money unnecessarily. Thanks for the recommendation.

I use a laptop dedicated for streaming only connected to a $100 SMSL dac into an amplifier. The sound is wonderful to my ears.

I agree with you about computer (laptop) based streaming. I use a windows laptop (used exclusively for music) running Audirvana into a high quality dac via usb and a Jitterbug. I have compared the sound with that from a mid £500 streamer only device into the same dac and, though the difference is small, the laptop is the better choice. I hear lots of comments about computers being 'noisy' but I don't think it is difficult to overcome that. Further, I have not heard an explanation of how that noise manifests itself. In other words if there is noise what will I be hearing? For me the background is silent so that is not the problem. I have almost been talked into adding a DDC but I really am not sure that it would make much difference - other than being able to use I2S input on the DAC. Audirvana is continually being upgraded which happens seamlessly so I will never get left behind. The computing power of a laptop is much greater than most streamers with more RAM as well.

I'd say not really. Depends what bitrate you're after but my vintage DAC from the year 2000 is holding up just as well. In a blind listening test it was not really picked out as being inferior in any way vs much newer DACs while playing standard 16/44.1 uncompressed WAV.

I just bought a Bille Heaven 11 amp with an integrated DAC. Before that amp I was using a Chinese tube amp (Yaqin MC-100C) with a SMSL DO200 DAC. The integrated Billie amp with a lower rated DAC chip does actually sound much better than my previous combination - while using the same Bluesound Node streamer. I totally agree with your thesis!

My Denon X6500h streaming services built in. I believe it has a built-in DAC. It plays HiRes music files too. Sounds great.

Some people like to spend tons of money to have a certain brand, just like people buy Apple or Nike. Hi end gear is the most bling bling focussed market you can imagen and targeted on wealthy men with a big ego. I have had a class A tube amp (16 kg) and now use a class D, (0.5 kg) el cheapo $ 50 amp and the difference is very small about sound. In a double blind test most people will not hear the difference! I use my notebook with Tidal and a DAC dongle and it sounds just great. I made my own speakers and subwoofer and tuned it to my taste.

Thank you for this video. I rely on my PC and enjoy the many facets it offers but also have some dacs and some streamers. I look forward to more from you.

I spent a year of my life on my stereo (14k :-/) and dacs dramatically change my system but it’s the system at large that reveals the qualities of the dac not the other way around.

As someone who has reviewed many streamers I'll chime in and say I've always felt they were all more similar than different. Nice video, you seem down to earth and fairly reasonable, a rarity in the hifi crowd :)

Like another person said I have moved up from sub$100 dacs in MANY small steps over several years to now $700-$800 dacs. EVERY step up was VERY worthwhile. Yes I improved my amp and speakers a little along the way but the dac is the most critical as it's the front end of the whole system. Buying an integrated amp with a mediocre built in dac quickly outdated is the wrong way to go. It's easier to move a used dac to someone also moving up from below then selling a more expensive dac/amp combo. As a Brit you should know the Linn audio path via upgrades first in the front end. Same applies to digital front ends. BTW I've been in audio 50+ years and a former high end dealer. Thank You

I have been through a few DACs, the last one I sold was the Venus II 12th, a DAC I thought I would keep forever... I bought a pair of Zu speakers, and everything sounded like crap, especially the Denafrips gear. My buddy that sold me the Zu speakers told me to find a used PS Audio GainCell DAC/Preamp. I found one for $800 and also purchased the Parasound A23+ amplifier. The sound was fantastic, but not quite there yet. I then purchased a $200 vintage Sansui 4000 stereo receiver. I bought a WiiM mini for shits and giggles, it blew me away with the Sansui. I then upgraded to the WiiM Pro, same internal DAC, but I plugged the WiiM Pro into the GainCell via digital coax... Now it really sounds fantastic. The Venus is gone, the Denafrips amps and preamp, gone, the Parasound gone... In my case, an expensive DAC was not the answer. I could have easily lived with the WiiM DAC in this system. The PS Audio DAC, if you shop around can be had for the same price as a Schiit Freya S, I owned one of those too. And this PS Audio GainCell, is routinely trashed over at Amir's site Audio Science Review, due to its not so flattering measurements. I guess they never listen to what they test/review.

I play all my music (flac, DSD, DSF, SACD and UHQR-flac) from my NAS. I use a raspberry pi with hifiberry dac on a vintage NAD amplifier and it sounds good!

Most integrated Dacs are ESS designs, which tend to be bright in the upper mids. I prefer a separate AKM or R2R based design for this reason, but then you are generally talking over $US1,000. Another thing: Dacs with one Dac per channel tend to perform noticeably better.

Nice advice sometimes we need to be reminded of the basics

It seems with hifi the more things change the more they stay the same, DACs & Music Streamers being a case in point. Technology is improving with new & better chip sets and connectivity, room correction and dsp advancements, network speeds and bandwidth is now better able to support various streaming options and the multi-room streaming ecosystems and apps are maturing. But issues that have been around hifi since adam was boy are still here. For example whilst there are good budget options around costs quickly rise when you start chasing an improvement in sound quality and there is always the desire for the newest bit of kit. The decision of if and when to adopt new technologies is still here, even more so today. For most of us who don't have FU money, the elephant in the room is still the same, ever diminishing returns.

Agree, especially if you add a good jitter filter and a power conditioner. Clean power to your laptop and a cleaned up USB signal between your laptop and your pre-amp can make a huge difference. It did for me. Also recommend spending a little more foe an external phono stage (preamp]. Most built-in phono stages are not as good as most external phono preamps. Emotiva, for example, even admits to tnis. Hence, tney offer a seriously better external phono preamp as an alternative to their built-in phonostage on all of their preamps.. iMHO.

PCs and laptops last 3-5 years - they may last longer but they will not be supported by the manufacturers. It’s a lose lose situation and the people responsible for this situation love it.

Hi - and thanks for this. I expect that you are correct regarding all this. I have not yet "stepped into" the world of streaming - apart from playing some via my phone over my various Sonos speakers. The reason for not stepping into this is probably the fact that I can't remember the name of any songs etc. so browsing is "hard" (but I want to test going into the streaming to see the recomendations from f.ex. Tital) so I normally purchase the records/cds that I would like to own/listen to. And being at my age I'm rather confused what is required to get things in the "streaming world" to work in harmony. I have a CD player from Yamaha (CD S2100) which is a heavy beast of a CD player (playing well with the "matching" Yamaha AS 2200 amplifier) and I know that the CD player has an internal DAC which one should be able to used for the DAC part of the "equation" so one should only need a streamer. You point out that the money might be better put inot a computer to take care of the streaming - and that is probably right. But for me the connection of the computer to the CD, to use it's internal DAC is something that looks to me as a "problematic" - is there any good videos that explain how this is all to be cabled together? There are probably many so many options in this - various "units" and various possible connections, cables etc. Thanks again for your advice I will take it to a good consideration prior to purchasing a streamer. One old and confused.

I have given this so much thought. In a market that must recreate itself every few years. Dacs and streamers are easy pickings to create revenue. Perhaps compared to the smart phone market. It’s upgrade time. No longer supported. This kind of thing in the industry we call HiFi. The pie chart of HiFi has been carved up in many different ways over the last 40 years. The Equalizer jumps to the forefront from back on the day. Other words come to mind. Dolby! Then came the CD player. Well, what can you do with that. You can create amplifiers with different buttons to push to give very different presentations. Hall, studio, room, jass, basement, church, Hard rock, compression, forest…. It went on and on. Now we talk of Dacs and Streamers to deliver information from many sources. The information of a track being delivered in an ever evolving better way. The best things to have come down to a few fundamental choices. Obviously speakers. Low or high sensitivity transducers. Based on that choice you pair an amp. You buy 98 db speakers? You think tube amp. You buy 86db 6.5” drivers? You buy a class amp more suitable to drive it. These are essentials. Streamers and Dacs are the hornets nest that has been created for you to spend money on. Again… back to basics here. Volume, balance, tone controls, treble, bass. Active speaker manufacturers have come up with Master tunings in the software they offer in the powered speakers they offer. Master tunings so we can choose between the same functions we had in the past. But now it’s proprietary. Just jump on our site and download a master tuning to input into your system. It’s just newer jargon. Active room correction, near field, rolled off highs, late night listening. It’s the same thing done over again to entice the new user. It’s a strange industry.

I use a computer for my streamer - RPI, with separate DAC and separate power & pre amps. I find separates sound better then integrated amp/receiver.

I've decided to pair a high end Aqua formula dac that can be upgraded if tech changes later...Pairing it with a Lumin U2 Mini w/ seperate linear power supply, it doesn't have a dac...comments welcomed❓

Jacques, I 100% agree with you. As you mentioned at the end, when talking about PCs, there are also other very practical solutions. I am a podcaster, and I also record music from time to time, and I digitize my vinyl records and cassettes. Therefore, I use a mixer with a USB interface, and it's a tremendous solution for desktop gear. I am using the mixer (I have several of them in different places, but the principal one is a Yamaha AG06), as a USB DAC (it's 24-bit 192 kHz) with my computer. Logically, I also use it for recording or digitizing analog sources, but I also use it as a preamp. I can connect my phone or a MiniDisc player, or any other analog output source to them. For example, I have a Chromecast Audio connected to one of the inputs, which allows me to stream music even when the computer isn't connected. I am using the monitor output from the mixer to feed an amplifier connected to a 2.1 system. And as a bonus... it's a very good headphone amplifier. In fact, it's so good that I bought a Musical Fidelity MX-HPA headphone amplifier to improve the system. However, I've decided to sell it, along with my Chord Mojo, which has already been sold. The minimal sound advantages are so small that convenience wins here. Additionally, it has both single-ended and balanced inputs and outputs.

I tried streaming on various laptops to a Denon amp. When I switched to a Bluesound node the improvement was significant. The fact that other streamers have now caught up or overtaken the node does not bother me, as mine still sounds as good as ever.

Sheldon Cooper presents Fun with DACs..

My YAMAHA Aventage AVR have built in dac and headphone output... HOW it compare with this stuff ?? I think that many people need to know... sure it surely better with separate components but how far is the sound with a good AVR....??

Sorry Jacques, but integrating a DAC onto a amp in order to avoid signal loss over a cable is poor advice. The power-supply of a DAC is much more important to the sound quality. By having to share your amp's instead you are introducing a lot of noise onto the delicate DAC clock. Also, DAC technologies are mature. There should be no concern buying a $5,000 DAC today thinking it will be replaced by tomorrow's new tech - anymore than buying a new amplifier. Delta-sigma and resistor ladder DACs have been around for over 50 years.

If you like to tinker than a raspberry or orange pi may be a solid route. Many of the all in one units, like wiim pro plus, don't seem to support my self hosted music server.

It all depends where you are with your system and where you want to get to. If you have a system you are happy with but haven't got streaming capability a Wiim (mini or pro) with a reasonable priced DAC such as an SMSL SU-1 along with a half decent optical cable and RCA's and you will have a great streaming setup for £200 to £300. If however you don't have an amp, tour idea of buying one with streaming capability makes sense, but will it sound better than individual components for the same price? Maybe, maybe not! Depends on what you choose. If you do have a separate amp, streamer, and DAC, then you have the option to upgrade in future without starting again. If you are starting from scratch, start with the speakers, they are going to have the biggest impact on sound, and are going to require the most care when matching with your room. I don't see the benefit of a PC for your source. Unless you build it yourself, you are foing to have a pretty rubish DAC, and probably have to rely on Bluetooth or a phono jack as an output.

If you have a DAC integrated with the amp, you have to change very expensive amp if you upgrade the DAC. I’m wondering about computer myself. One thing that troubles me a bit is that computer optical drives may not have the same speed stability as ones designed for a hifi CD player? Does this actually matter, though? Another point is do you have to buy a special sound card for recording music off the internet?

Great advice and well presented. New subscriber.

Instead of buying a streamer DAC why not buy an Android Tablet with a big storage memory card, streamer apps, and a USB OTG coaxial/optical output attached to that Tablet so sound can be digitally send to an external dac or amplifier. This is much cheaper than many DAC streamers, though maybe a little less convenient and less functionality with external HDD or such. But it's more economical to upgrade in a few years, just by upgrading the tablet.

Hi Jacques, great video, I totally agree, dac market is as fast as ever, keeping up can be frustrating, always good to have some options when considering a streamer. Thanks for sharing. looking forward to more videos.

Upgrading my DAC to a Gustard R26 R2R with built-in Lan streamer has been the biggest improvement I have ever made to my system. Same speakers and amp, but just jaw dropping in all regards. Built-in streamer/renderer is well above my RME adi-2 dac fs, Node n130 and Wiim Pro in detail and overall musically. I can always upgrade the streamer should technology improve down the road and still have a fantastic R2R DAC either way. My Schiit DAC is now on my patio system with a Wiim Pro and sounds really nice when I'm outside. My RME is now connected to the Node for a great headphone stack beside my chair with parametric eq presets on the RME depending on which headphones I am using. Gustard R26 is my end game unless something is WAY better in the near future! ❤

Hearing the difference in DACs is just like being married. At first it’s all brand new and your just not very in tune with the difference you may or may not be hearing, The more you do it, the more you can hear the subtle differences. After many years, I can easily sense the subtle differences in my Wife’s mood just like I can easily hear the differences between DACs. Like anything, just practice.

On the surface I would agree with you using a computer as your source except for one irksome bug I have with your recommendation...I have a laptop running Linux and a desktop running Windows. I've loaded up JRiver and Foobar2000 onto both units thinking I'd get bit perfect output via usb to my dac. NOPE!!! The OS's keep down-sampling the signal to 16bit 44.1Hz. For any beginner or novice this is very frustrating. I've tinkered around with settings on both the laptop and windows pc, but nothing I do makes any difference. I'm at the point where I've thrown in the towel and currently looking for a dedicated streamer...the Eversolo DMP-A6 looks promising.

I have a topping DX9 . Could anybody recommend a good streamer to connect to it

Really disagree with the idea of going for an integrated amp with a cheap built in dac over having a separate one "because cables bottleneck the sound", thats crazy

I'm very novice when it comes to this, but want to buy nice equipment to listen to music. What do I get first? Thank you.

Thanks for this reminder. This subject should be common sense, but there are a lot of great salesmen on-line to tempt us with the latest shiny thing that will deliver audio nirvana. New subscriber ✌😎👍

Da fudge is wrong with people in this chat? Video was fine in general pertaining to Jacques opinion... PEACE

if you buy a wiim device and bypass the external dac there would be no reason to upgrade to a better one. why would you want to use a pc when most apps dont output bit perfect audio and they have many other issues with the windows audio path. i really just dont understand. also how have dacs and streamers evolved? some people still use something like the squeezebox touch. it still streams local files and with plugins it can stream qobuz, tidal ect. if it streams bit perfectly you can just change the dac and no matter when it came out it will be the exact same. dacs might have lower distortion but new ones dont make the old ones sound bad.

streamers and dacs are all the rage because of how lucrative they are, all the way down. massive margins to play with while capitalizing on those who want 'the best' and brand snobs. okay admitedly, part of this whole scene is aesthetics etc, and I'm a big fan of design perfection for consumer end-products, but I'm also a fan of space-saving and convergence technology. people want to jump the gun. i say stick to the PC for as long as device - and ambient - noise actually makes a difference. or until all of the other components are at a level where the PC stuff makes a difference. how many people live in an anechoic chamber? it's easy for us to become anal in our daydreams (pun defs not intended) but it's best to take things step-by-step in reality in order to appreciate each improvement. the people that go on about how important streamers are, often say the same for power conditioners and want to peddle overpriced cables and brass feet. i call BS on all of those middlmen.

DACs hve been very good for ar at least 10 years - they really don't have any further to go. Streamers are somewhat newerbut are relatively simple devices. People have been using laptops as streamers quite successfully for quite a while. I'd say don't waste your money on either expensive DACs or streamers. Intstead of listening sighted try doing some blind testing - you'll soon see what I mean. Stop falling into the great hifi trap of it's newer therefore it must be better or it's more expensive therefore it must be better or it's a bigger brand name therefore it must be better. Admitedly you can get something wrong in a million ways, not so many ways of getting something right but amps/DACS/streamers aren't quantum computers guys.

Be careful with the video title: your experience/opinion doesn’t always equal with „the truth“. For instance, I compared the eversolo DMP A6, which everybody is raving about with my 10 year old MSB ‚the analog‘ DAC. Guess who won the shootout? The old MSB. A good DAC consists of more than just the converter chip.

Ya but that is just common sense...but if you choose to use that kind of format there are lots out in the market. I prefer vinyl , but at times a streamer is easier to grab your tablet and press a song. So there is NO problem with streamers and Dacs

I figure, it’s time to look for a DAC that complies with your theories of quality hifi. I believe heavily on silver cables and tube components. I also believe that when you’ve tried everything and you can’t get your system to sound better, time for the DAC.

Room has a lot of echoes. Hard to understand voice.

Just buy 💿

Yeah will sick with my HomePods

Streaming services are still no match to CD or Vinyl. Convenience is the only reason that I use Tidal.

00:50 "An amplifier from 10-15 years ago is gonna hold up against what is the latest and greatest today..." This would had been true if you had said it like 6-7 years ago. But today that's not really true. Only in the past 2-3 years we have had completely new tech and amplifier modules like Purifi Eigentakt 1ET400A or the Hypex NCX500 and Nilai500, all which totally stomps any class A, A/B or class D amp from a few years ago, in ALL aspects as THD, linearity, power, damping factor and efficiency. Oh and on price....

Sorry, at this point must disagree about a computer. I have been that route years back and no amount of tinkering will deliver the performance today of a WiiM Pro. It delivers a big bang performance in my tube monoblock system. Not only that, Wiim Pro is Roon Ready and the new Wiim Pro+ has a nice AKM DAC chip for not much more than the original $150 price. If you want to use your computer with your TV, sure by all means. For good or better audio, the Wiim Pro is a landmark. At $150, I added an external 5v power supply for about $50 for even better performance. No computer can touch it.

At least if you buy a good DAC between $500 and $1500 you can generally hope to get many years of use from it, and it will even have some resale value. The problem with Streamers that are software based such as ones that use a modified flavor of Android and rely on the streaming services apps is that eventually the newer apps will not work on it. Even if the company is still around by then and is customer driven enough to provide a firmware update to a newer version of Android, eventually the hardware won't run a newer flavor of Android. Basically, at that point you are left with an expensive paperweight that has no value at all. So, buyer beware for sure. To some people, a $1000 streamer that only lasts 3 or 4 years is fine, but for others, they'd rather buy a cheap $150 to $500 streamer like the WiiM Pro or the newer ones in that price range by NAD and Cambridge Audio, so they aren't out as much. Regarding DACs, are we short-changing ourselves if we don't get a R2R one? So many reviewers talk about the "natural tonality and soundstage depth and width" of R2R DACs. But from a technical standpoint I'm not sure I understand why this older architecture gives these benefits versus ones that are chip or FPGA based.

lol HIFI guide from a kid that's not even been around long enough have heard much at all.....sigh.

Your microphone is terribly sibilant. That was painful to listen to.

Dont waste your money on DAC or cables they make very little difference, all subjective influenced by marketing and cost. I can bet that anyone blind testing DAC, cables will never guess which one is more expensive and will all make different choices, but take the blind fold off and they can see the product and suddenly they hear a difference.

Stop pi55ing money away on DACS and ever solo streamers, flavor of the month shyte. The neatest I've seen is the stereohub with WiSA and active speakers with DSP. Just control it all from your phone, no need for tons of boxes and cables. Embrace the future.

This guy is a rambling novice. Better is a matter of opinion.

What a boring video, with just general and wrong comments. No, DACs are nowadays a center piece for a good Hifi system. Just wonder if you have ever made tests of different DACs before coming with your completely wrong conclusions !!

first, we have to define "better" in hifi...when people talking about a certain upgrade, the very first thing they say is how new component bring "more details"....it is almost universal answer among audiophiles, but i don't think that's the point of audio devices, and music as art in general, to hear everything at any cost...

agree...thing is, all those golden ears boys in the comments wouldn't be able to tell a difference between 200$ dac and 2000$ dac on the blind test if their life depends on it...audio forums and youtube so called "reviews" are so full of it, it looks like what hifi hdmi cable "vibrant colors" compared to competition crap is spreading around like wildfire...