Taco is right, presup is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
@andreaskarlsson5251Ай бұрын
Honestly more stupid than flat earthers. 😂 At least they just dont understand science. Entire presupp argument is stupid and makes no sense. 😂
@MartTLS5 ай бұрын
Darth “Just a second” - translation - I’m going to check my script.
@alexanderingraham82552 ай бұрын
It’s not that complex 😂
@andreaskarlsson5251Ай бұрын
@@alexanderingraham8255still, darth is an old idiot.
@acason44 ай бұрын
"God's self disclosure"... LMFAO "God" has NEVER actually "self disclosed" ANYTHING!
@andreaskarlsson5251Ай бұрын
And if he has it happened thousands of years ago.. so we would still not have any clue 😂
@peterwyetzner52765 ай бұрын
"The God of the Bible" is an uninformative concept- so many different and unrelated things are said about God in the Bible, that it doesn't offer a coherent basis for drawing theological conclusions.
@AutisticVaxtard4 ай бұрын
Oy vey
@canyouflybobby73522 ай бұрын
Darth evades every question about god . He just fills the gaps with god but never answers questions about it .
@happehaha5 ай бұрын
There is a pretty simple objection to Darth’s position: we have no way of assessing whether what a god reveals to us is true or not
@benaberry5785 ай бұрын
Or if a god even exists or revealed anything
@lightbeforethetunnel3 ай бұрын
The Bible.
@happehaha3 ай бұрын
@@lightbeforethetunnel Why not the Quran?
@Marniwheeler2 ай бұрын
It's worse, in fact, because Satan exists in the Christian worldview. Satan has immense powers, and is the lord of deception, so any given divine experience (or any other experience for that matter) could actually be the work of Satan, instead of a god. Therefore any Christian has no grounding at their foundation at all. There entire life could be a lie, as well as their entire religion, according to their own worldview.
@funkehouseАй бұрын
🤣🤣🤣@@lightbeforethetunnel
@danielschwagler62295 ай бұрын
Watch any Darth clip of him having a "conversation". Randomly pick a spot to fast forward to. You will hear darths voice. Every time.
@AutisticVaxtard4 ай бұрын
Oy vey
@verbosedy99472 ай бұрын
Yep. If there was a drinking game with those rules we would all be plastered halfway in the first video.
@johnrap72035 ай бұрын
Gary Milne is the personification of a tu quoque fallacy. That he even accused Taco of that is is one of the most ironic, hypocritical, accusations he could make.
@benaberry5785 ай бұрын
Darth will never grasp this. Transcendental reasoning requires presuppositions. Presuppositions are either justified by circular reasoning, axioms or an infinite chain of justification, he chooses begging the question…
@jason3357775 ай бұрын
What is your epistemology? Let's test it and see which it falls under.
@benaberry5785 ай бұрын
@@jason335777 to know something rests on axioms I hold, for example I can learn something about the world.
@13shadowwolf4 ай бұрын
@@jason335777Reality is my Epistemology. Your god is not part of the Reality that we find ourselves residing in, it's a Fantasy that you are Projecting outwards onto Reality. You are claiming your Fantasies are the Cause of Reality. Presup is Infinite Ignorance, plus Infinite Arrogance.
@alexritchie45863 ай бұрын
I tend to cut that off at the pass by taking the, what I feel is justified, position that transcendentals simply do not exist as anything other than a human concept.
@13shadowwolf3 ай бұрын
@@jason335777 Reality is Self-Evident, we test parts of Reality against other parts of Reality to see if there is Consistency. Science is the repeated testing of parts of Reality against other parts of Reality, it demonstrates the Epistemology of Science by being Repeatable. Modern Interpretations of ancient Mythological Beliefs from long-dead cultures isn't a "grounding of knowledge"; it's just bad Fan-Fic writing to justify the Modern Interpretations of ancient Mythology and label the nonsense from the bad Fan-Fic writing as "Theology" Presup doesn't ground knowledge, it just makes up a definition that it likes and claims knowledge comes for whatever "X" they want to posit. It's nothing more than Tradition that Presup is even considered as an "argument"; without thousands of years of people just accepting that the Christian god is a valid concept, the arguments of Presup wouldn't exist. This is because the argument of Presup isn't valid, Theists just want it to be valid, so they can claim to have an argument.
@TheSilvereagle2475 ай бұрын
Darths "if" does a lot of heavy lifting
@peetee325 ай бұрын
@1:25 that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard Lol just wait a bit. In a darth dawkins conversation the stupidity levels increase exponentially
@zgs122120122 ай бұрын
A god is not the answer, Gary. Next!
@sirlottawin4 ай бұрын
this argument is sophistry
@VolrinSeth3 ай бұрын
It's circular reasoning dressed up in impressive sounding verbiage.
@MrMattSaxАй бұрын
I think that’s actually the point
@canyouflybobby73522 ай бұрын
Darth will never justfiy the supernatural because he cant .
@andreaskarlsson5251Ай бұрын
Ikr? I never understood religious people who feel they have to claim knowledge they dont have. Why not be honest and say its what they believe? 🤷♂️ Would solve so many problems in the world.
@skywalkerneoblade3 ай бұрын
This is a course in sophistry.
@dbt52245 ай бұрын
God's miracles violate the laws of physics/uniformity of nature. How can a being capable of violating at a whim simultaneously secure the laws/uniformity?
@sgloobal20255 ай бұрын
Secure means to uphold. He can simply uphold them so that they are universal so long as he upholds them.
@dbt52245 ай бұрын
@@sgloobal2025 But when they are violated, they are not upheld. In the Christian God world, there is no such thing as a uniformity of nature that we can depend on.
@sgloobal20255 ай бұрын
@@dbt5224 So then in such a case they would be upheld except for rare circumstances when god decides to intervene so why wouldn't you trust them? That doesn't follow. By the way god doesn't violate the laws of physics he supersedes them. Just like we supercede gravity by putting planes in the sky.
@dbt52245 ай бұрын
@@sgloobal2025 Supersede essentially means to replace. Planes do not replace gravity. God having the ability to supersede the uniformity whenever he wants, even if the instances are rare, means the uniformity is not secure. Pretty simple concept.
@sgloobal20255 ай бұрын
@@dbt5224 Laws are not created entities or powers that act as intermediaries between God and nature; they are best understood as expressions of God’s will for nature. Within daily life, regularities in nature are interrupted all the time and nature’s response is to adapt to change. There is always something new in nature, and as new patterns and entities emerge, previous natural patterns and entities adjust accordingly. This novelty does not break or disrupt the natural order or laws any more than the evolutionary emergence of new ecosystems undermines the laws of organic chemistry. The same principle applies to God’s relationship with nature. In Koperski’s proposal for divine action, “God can at the very least do everything we can do without violating the laws.” Consider, for example, what happens when you reach into a grandfather clock to adjust the hands for daylight savings time. You have changed the course of that law-governed system - since you moved the hour hand forward - but the laws of motion have not been violated. In the same way, says Koperski, “the universe is an open system from a God’s-eye point of view, like the clock is to us.” According to Koperski, “The laws of nature never break, they flow. They adapt to change.” Nature’s deep propensity for adaptation in response to novelty and change could even be seen as a law of nature itself. Nothing in either classical Newtonian physics or quantum physics prevents the introduction of new influences on a system. To illustrate this idea, Koperski uses the classical example of two balls colliding on a pool table. Assuming a very simple system where there is a perfectly elastic collision - which itself is an idealization - what happens if one were to tilt the table just prior to the collision? This tilting would produce changes in the decomposition of forces, the force of friction, and a few other factors, resulting in a new differential equation at the end. However, the laws would not change.
@yichengyi12 күн бұрын
As a former Catholic and student of Chinese intellectual history, what I can't figure out is how people do not make coherent distinctions and correlations between ontolological and epistemological constructs. I have struggled with those relationships theoretically and still struggle trying to communicate with others in how exactly epistemology is different from ontology. As soon as one accepts that there's a different interpretation for a given register and that it's bound by historical experience, one immediately moves from epistemology into ontology. Categories of knowledge related to affect, such as causation, can be successfully utilized by both Christians and atheist-agnostics because, in their present form, both come from the same philosophical tradition. However, it's the telos or the outcome (predictive value and impart) of the same vocabulary that allow the meaning words themselves to be understood so differently. Even in live conversations with similarly minded friends, we never come to agreements about these philosophical categories. Eventually, we just say, "it's a dialectic."
@diogeneslamp8004Ай бұрын
Probably posting this for myself rather than others but at 33:06 Darth pulls a fast one. He asks Taco to identify what renders Darth’s god unnecessary to provide universal intelligibility. But that’s not the only way to address the issue. The other way is to challenge the claim that presups are in a position to assess revelation. In other words, you don’t need to replace God, you need to question the idea that intelligibility is bestowed. Intelligibility is earned, not given.
@porkyboy42265 ай бұрын
Darth proving once again (as if it were needed) that presup is an utter load of bollox!
@jason3357775 ай бұрын
Really? How is it that God does not exist? What is ultimate and foundational in your not-God model of reality that can provide a foundation for facts? How is a fact a fact? Failure to answer this is proof of your irrationality.
@porkyboy42265 ай бұрын
@@jason335777 which one of the thousands of gods are you talking about first??
@jason3357775 ай бұрын
@@porkyboy4226 Quit dodging. I'm talking about the triune God of scripture. The only ultimate that necessarily must exist. Now, answer me. What is foundational in your model of reality that provides for the intelligibility and actuality of facts?
@donnamurphy85515 ай бұрын
@@jason335777 Could you be wrong about your god existing?
@jason3357775 ай бұрын
@@donnamurphy8551 No, because the God of the bible must exist, otherwise you could not have any facts or a foundation for human intelligibility. If you disagree, then in your not-God model of reality, how could there be any basis for facts, and any ground for the preconditions required for human intelligibility?
@docbauk3643Ай бұрын
22:37 does Darth ever listen to the nonsense he spews. If he did he would realize he never explains it only repeats the same nonsense.
@skynet3dАй бұрын
"You can't justify everything" "Neither can you" "TU QUOQUE!!!". It's not a tu quoque fallacy, and it's an admission from Darth that his own view doesn't provide justification for anything. He just avoids the objection by invoking a fallacy and shutting up the opponent. A tu quoque fallacy would be saying that your opponent was wrong in a previous conversation, therefore he can't be right about what he's saying now. Darth is so stupid and dishonest.
@maxburpee2 күн бұрын
Darth is like an insane supercomputer.
@BlueEyesDY2 ай бұрын
This guy obviously has never heard of existential inertia.
@andreaskarlsson5251Ай бұрын
Whats that?
@docbauk3643Ай бұрын
The laws of physics are mathematical equations.
@cameronscottcairney8852Ай бұрын
Haha darth is so insane
@Youtubehater174 ай бұрын
LBTT not charged in to defend gary, and rant repetitive nonsense?? He's slipping.
@realLsf2 ай бұрын
Presup is complete nonsense
@andrewphilpott32205 ай бұрын
10:17 How does the myriad of events provide for the actuality and intelligibility of empirical endeavors? My answer: Because they are observable. What is the presup answer to that response?
@andrewphilpott32205 ай бұрын
13:17. Laws of nature are established through observation. Laws of physics are ultimately empirical, even if they have a theoretical formulation. We can only know that they apply where they have been tested. We do not have any guarantee that they are universal or eternal.
@andrewphilpott32205 ай бұрын
14:30 I describe eyesight as the ability of my eyes to detect certain wavelengths of electromagnetism that deliver information about the world. Eyesight could stop working for me at any moment, and so it does not presuppose a uniformity of nature.
@VolrinSeth3 ай бұрын
The presup answer would be: how do you know you can rely on your senses?
@andrewphilpott32203 ай бұрын
@@VolrinSethHow does the presup know he can rely on his senses? Nobody knows for certain that natural law will always hold. Natural law is rooted in observation, and is ultimately empirical, not a priori. If there were a God, he could change the rules at any time. Furthermore nobody truly knows if his senses are deceiving him. The conclusion that they are accurate is reasonable when other people report similar things, and when things you sense lead you in an expected direction.
@VolrinSeth3 ай бұрын
@@andrewphilpott3220 I know, I was just answering your question.
@valuee529814 күн бұрын
Absurd claims require absurd evidence.... All Darth Dawkins does is manipulation and sophistry according to the same scenario
@Jaryism5 ай бұрын
How old is this?
@BrokeTheSeal2 ай бұрын
So then according to Darth, the fact of god’s existence would be contingent upon god existing, which is circular and the entire argument falls apart. Or I’m sure Darth would say god’s existence is a necessary brut fact which would be a special pleading fallacy. Dude is devoid of logic. Edit: wanted to add that the Bible itself is a defeater of the Christian god.
@diogeneslamp8004Ай бұрын
You said _brut_ instead of _brute_ and now I want champagne. You owe me a bottle of Veuve Clicquot.
@andreaskarlsson5251Ай бұрын
It fails earlier than that imo. As soon as he demands that an atheist must have a defeater for his vague god is the moment he loses his "debates".
@carsonwong5 ай бұрын
After darth face revelation at tom rabbit last video, did no one ask him to go on diet?
@Marniwheeler2 ай бұрын
The problem is easy Darth. I read the bible, it says in the bible that all scripture is god breathed, and yet it contains errors. So even if a god exists, he isnt perfect. So you can believe in god, but you just imagine he is perfect, when the evidence says otherwise. You cry about how we cant have evidence without the framework, but i have experiences of life which explain away all your issues, you just dont care.
@andreaskarlsson5251Ай бұрын
Could you give your most obvious error in the bible? :o heard a few, some are good and some just seems to be meh. For example: who discovered the jesus empty tomb. The stories dont exclude each other.
@MarniwheelerАй бұрын
@@andreaskarlsson5251 I replied, a two word answer, but it was censored. Judas Unalived
@Tonylarkins395 ай бұрын
What good is it to understand Presup if one cannot hear/understand what the Bible is actually saying? Darth believes the Trinity (deception), Heliocentric model (deception), believes he's at the wrong point on the timeline (deception), cannot recognize the enemy, cannot recognize the truth, etc. Ask yourselves why Darth refuses to debate anything else. This is all an ego-trip to him. Darth does not deny himself at all, does not pick up the cross, does not hear/understand truth, and is only concerned with winning the same debate endlessly to feed his ego. Few could take a true argument and make it this anti-Christian if they tried.
@FRMurOWNopinion5 ай бұрын
So when the Bible says “buy your slaves from the heathens that surround you” you agree that it actually says that and supports human ownership? Also, when it says “god sent 2 bears to maul 42 boys for making fun of baldness” it really is saying that god is petty enough to answer Elisha’s curse?
@FRMurOWNopinion5 ай бұрын
Also, how have you determined that you know what the Bible says more than any other denomination of Christianity out there? What makes your interpretation special? Also, also, everyone knows that DD is only doing this for his ego. It’s so blatantly obvious and it’s so humorous when he thinks his script proves anything. That’s the only reason I listen to him at all because it solidifies my atheism even more
@jason3357775 ай бұрын
If God is not a trinity of 3 persons in one singular being, then you cannot have a ground for certain preconditions of human intelligibility and experience. For example, love can be grounded and be actual because God Himself is love and within the persons exists eternal love to each other. How can love exist in your non-trinity model of reality? Then after that, think about how can relationality have a ground. What about unity among diversity? How can you have one and many and unify these? Only a trinitarian ultimate can ground the reality we have.
@FRMurOWNopinion5 ай бұрын
@@jason335777 so what about the existence of hate then? Is it grounded by god because god is hate? Hate exists so why does that not coincide with equivocating god as hate? The problem with defining god as a term such as love, is you are just tautologically proclaiming that “god is god” or in this case “god is god so how can you have god in a non-trinitarian worldview?” It’s a nonsense question Please tell me how a trinitarian god is necessary to ground the reality we live in and how trinitarianism is even remotely preferable to monism or pluralism. How does the concept of the “trinity” explain unity among diversity?
@jason3357775 ай бұрын
@@FRMurOWNopinion ok so hate, much like evil, can be described by the opposite of the thing that is. For example, evil is merely going against God's standard of good. God is good, He grounds it. God is love, only He grounds it. So hate would be to withdraw love. Evil would be to act opposite of God's standard. So in a sense, yes God grounds evil, but not in the bad way youd would think of it. He grounds it by creating the free will choice to act opposite. Ya, so think about this. Love is being other oriented. But if a deity was to ground love, how would love be actual for a unitarian god? It would not because there is nothing else to love, so it would not be a maximal love. Only the eternal, triune God can ground love, being an eternally loving trinity of persons. Google the one and many problem in philosophy. Its an age old problem. Whats is ultimate? Unity or diversity? If unity, then individual particulars lose meaning. If diversity, then what unifies things? Only the trinity solves this problem. Unity and diversity are equally ultimate because God is both one and many. So you see, only the Christian God can be actual because His exclusive attribute set grounds ALL necessary preconditions we need for intelligible human experience.
@Mytube8I5 ай бұрын
It is WELL-known for years now around Discord that Taco is not a very bright person. He uses terms he doesn’t know the meaning of. He contradicts himself left and right. He goes silent when his contradictions get exposed instead of acknowledging it. He feels his way through debates instead of using his head. This is embarrassing to listen to.
@13shadowwolf4 ай бұрын
He does an amazing job exposing just how $tupid Presup is. Presup is equal parts Ignorance and Arrogance. There is nothing to ground the Presup assertions, yet they will not stop claiming to be "correct" Word games, cannot define god into existence. Presup is nothing but a series of Arrogant Proclamations.
@RussianPrimeMinister3 ай бұрын
And yet Gary still couldn't get ahead during this "debate". Goes to show how utterly intellectually bankrupt he is.