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So many of titans’ aspects in general are based off of melee so whenever melee is discouraged through nerfs or game design, it pretty much hurts Titan viability way more than hunters or warlocks

I’m loving the ad jumpscares. Nice quiet video discussing Titan’s gameplay loop then YOU KNOW WHAT’S HARD TO REPLACE? YOUR BALLS

If consecration wasn’t on prismatic Titan I probably wouldn’t even be using it

titans are supposed to be the bulwark, the frontlines, the tank bungie boiled that down to close range, melee that ontop of the sandbox punishing anyone who gets into melee range on higher difficulties results in where we're at now it's not as much of a problem on solar and strand since they have sustain, but prismatic really just highlights the overall design issues with titan subclasses as a whole if you don't have constant DR and healing, the subclass just isn't very good at high levels of play

My main problem with the titan kit right now is that bungie seemly wants it it be THE melee class but cant seem to figure out how to tune it without it either being able to one shot raid bosses or just being a wet fart. Its especially frustrating because prismatic hunter is eating so good with the liars caliban or liars renewal class item, so much so that titan melee build s just feel obsolete

I think the biggest problem with prismatic titan (at least in the middle game boss dps is mostly due to lacking useful supers) is what i like to call "the loop" warlock have the devour "loop", hunters have the stylish executioner "loop," titans have... knockout? Really? That's it? There's no loop there. It doesn't feed back into itself. You use your melee, and then it goes back on cooldown again, and you have to wait. Meanwhile, the warlocks are spamming bleakwatcher turrets with devour active, and the hunters are punching everything that moves while invisible. There IS senergy there, but the name of the game is uptime, and titans just dont have it.

Bungie: “Titans are the melee class!” Titans: *Uses potent melee builds* Bungie: “Not like that! ):

Prismatic Titan is mostly only ad clear. That's my pris Titan build. Titans can't deal with long-range, and our only good kit always gets nerfed to shit. At most we only have void axes for range -

*Titans should be the TANK class. Not the MELEE class.* The identity which Bungie has given to Titans is the “punch everything” class, but that’s not what was originally intended. The Titan insignia, for example, is a symbol of them being the metaphorical “wall” that defends the six fronts of the City. Previously, Synthoceps/glaive melee/One-Two Punch builds were top of the meta, but these were overpowered and subsequently nerfed. These were fair nerfs, in my opinion. But where does this leave the Titans? Today, melee builds are generally lackluster or dangerous (to the user) in high-end content. Because Titans can rarely punch bosses, and because doing so to a champ is a death sentence, the utility of the Titan is questionable at best. Thus, the identity crisis of Titans. Ditch the melee-focused identity in favor of the tank. Titans should be the frontline of defense, the wall that enemies must overcome. *Suppressive fire, area-denial, damage resist, extreme firepower* all fit this criteria. Bungie could get creative with it! Edit: Yes, I know Stronghold and Ursa Furiosa exist, but these tackle one niche of the “tank” identity. Let’s see more adjacent to these.

I feel like Into the Fray would be a great addition over Drengrs. It would fit the whole melee theme with the bonus regen on woven mail, giving you and your team huge buffs with woven mail, and give tangles ANY reason to exist on prismatic outside of a way to proc threaded blast for this episode exclusively Edit: plus it doesnt really have any "strand identity". It's a strong aspect, but it doesn't make a build on its own for strand, similar to how they picked the other aspects.

Another thing that's annoying about the class item, not only is half of it melee centric, the other half is Barricade centric. Not Thruster, Barricade specifically. And those two things clash, because you got to be slightly less aggressive and further away for the class item stuff, which is just enough to where you can't really juggle your melee and Barricade perks well.

The biggest problem with prismatic titan is the aspect choices and the exotic class item exotic perk choices, the exotics they choose are so terrible that the only real thing you need is inmost synto. (Make baby hammer come back when you press the melee button and put it in prismatic)

TDT posted a video on this topic today as well that goes into some much deeper problems that the Titam class has as a whole, well beyond just Prismatic and affecting every Titan subclass. In a nutshell, both Hunters and Warlocks can do certain things that Titan's simply can't, and nearly everything that a Titan can do, a Hunter or Warlock can do more efficiently and effectively. The video is a great watch in combination with this one.

I think it's kinda funny that when a titan is meta, its mostly uninended. Banner of war with grapple punch, storm nades, launch Lorely, and abeyant leap (more of suspend in general, but titan has the best access to it).

This feels like it’s the culmination of Bungie design philosophy for Titan biting them in the butt. Titans have relegated to just being the melee/tanky class even when Stasis and Strand were introduced Titan still retained a melee centric style while Hunters and Warlock got something unique while retaining to their respective designs. Now you have the ultimate subclass with slightly limitless possibilities and Titan still remains as the punch class

Prismatic is supposed to have unique interactions between underused/weak aspects and exotics that lead to synergies in builds that otherwise wouldn't be possible (ex: getaway artist + helion + bleak watcher). Prismatic Titan doesn't have any synergy between the chosen options. Any synergies they would have gotten were preemptively reworked/nerfed (ex: thruster + drengr's) or are just worse than playing the regular subclasses. Not to mention the clear balancing bias when it comes to the chosen aspects for each class. Each prismatic class has an aspect with 2 fragment slots which can be assumed to be the strongest aspect out of the options. I don't know how a dev thought devour was on the same level of a nerfed knockout.

It's Nerf, or nothing

What hurts even worse is that offensive bullwark and Fray are right there. Imagine "having Amplified, overshield, restoration, frost armor, or woven mail grants increased grenade cooldown and increased melee damage" It would have been a TANK build on the TANK class. I think Titans getting new void abilities shot us in the foot. Unbreakable replaced some amazing options, and I'll give the new super credit, but void was really our only super utility option aside from maul stuns on certain spots. So now every super we have is just damage.

Encounters don't want us to be in melee. Name a boss that won't rip your health bar in half and knock ya back 20 feet that is also NOT flying or floating outside the map. If they want Titan to be a Punch Merchant, they need rewarded in all encounters for it. Any other class who could build melee has four other options. Titans don't have other options. We punch. I've been grumbling that when we hit damage phase on half these bosses, it isn't WORTH it for me to super. Either it gets me killed to the architects or I spend a third of the meter chasing the fucker down and I coulda used that time to apex rocket spam and if my best Boss DPS in half of these encounters could be done by a Redjack holding my guns, then I think there's an issue. Before someone says it, I know Pyrogale does great damage. I know Thundercrash does great damage. (Half because they are fire and forget supers) But there are fights that you CAN'T do that. Not that it isn't metah. That doing that will at best result in no damage or at worst, get you killed. (See Pyrogale missing damage because of a 6 inch lip you missed.) They build bosses to punish you for assuming you're safe, and they treat the melee Titan like a flatfooted Warlock. You get booped, you lose damage, you might still die. Everyone else is 80% of the time, safely away throwing their damage at range and keeping a lookout for attacks and using cover.

I think a really good way to describe the issue comes around 9:30 where datto says that all the titan prismatics builds are just the same builds we use with the other classes… but weaker, giving zero incentive to use the build on prismatic vs using the normal build

I think it's worth noting that all 5 aspects require being in the fray, but there's no into the fray defense. Even diamond lance requires you to go pick it up.

Ever since picking titan in D1 I've wanted them to be the heavy weapons/bullet storm with ARs and MGs class. I really want the devs to lean into that either in a new class or with options in the existing ones. Give Actium a giga buff with a damage perk and orb generation for rapid fire weapons too.

Bungie developers treat Titans like tanks, but they see tanks as battering rams and completely ignore the giant gun on top. Hazardous Propulsion is what the Titan kit should have focused into instead of different coloured ways to punch something. Remember Ranger and Colossus from Anthem? Artillery, cannons, miniguns, flamethrowers, rocket salvos, just HEAVY WEAPONS. I'll even give you a lore reason. Sunbreakers learn to use their hammers not just as weapons but more like they're originally invented for, to BUILD. So they start making all the weapons listed above and then some.

The sentiment is much older than Salvations Edge. Where did we unironically use Titan in Pantheon, except Atraks? Bubble has been useless for years. Cuirass was the only saving grace and has been powercrept - if you can actually hit the boss because why would Bungie want to fix that..

IMO giving prismatic titans controlled demolition and flachette storm instead of unbreakable and drengrs would go a loooong way, it would actually give a darkness and long range alternative to consacration, so we can hit things that are far away or flying, controlled demolition would give titans more survivability when killing things or procking volatile on a boss (actually good synergies with void weapons there) and its would make some crazy dmg combos, imagine running pulse nades with controlled demolition and the fragment that makes arc nades jolt targets, basically contantly procking jolt and volatile or flashette storm procking unravel and volatile. Hunter gets to go invis on anything and warlocks get to heal off of killing with anything, we need out void passive too

my only issue with prismatic how it is besides consecration with the strand melee combo is it seems like everything is just better on the standard subclasses

Another issue with prismatic Titan- Unbreakable: all of the grenades prismatic Titan has available are either the longest or 2nd longest grenades. If we had ONE short recharge grenade it would be more viable but the base cooldown is far too long without any good way to refresh it.

ive tried and theory-crafted a way to make unbreakable work on prismatic but i just cant find it. of the only 4 fragments dealing with grenades on prism, not a single one deals with recharge. In addition, any aspect pairing with unbreakable makes 0 sense. Any frozen or suspended target (diamond and drengr) cannnot physically hit you and thus cannot increase the damage of the blast. consecration and knockout are all melees. all this combined with the fact that you cannot consume the prismatic grenade while transcendant? there is quite literally 0 synergy to be had which is a damn shame because it is very fun to use. I would love to see it stay on prism but swap out something else to increase its synergy. thank you for coming to my ted talk

Can we do anything else? Titans do need to be reevaluated the build craft is minimal co.paried to the other 2 classes.

I haven’t read any comment like this anywhere so I’m going to put it out there: I think there is an element of certain aspects being so good that it is these aspects being available that make or break prismatic. Here is what I mean. Take warlocks as an example. It is not that their stasis kit is amazing. It is bleak watchers that are. If you remove bleak watchers from their kit, their level of being able to freeze becomes comparable to that of titans and hunters. However, bleak watcher as an aspect is so potent that you can sort of abandon the stasis class entirely while having it without many consequences. In this sense prismatic works as a bonus for warlocks, as it allows them to unleash the strongest (and also the most boring!) of their stasis aspect. (In fact bleak watchers are so potent that you could give warlocks just that and nothing else and they would still be fine…) A similar thing happens with the arc kit for hunters, which really just depends on the loop of combination blow + dodge. Again, prismatic comes as a bonus, since the rest of the arc kit is not really essential. Similarly, hunter invisibility is comparable to bleak watchers in potency. Once you give it to prismatic, you made the class very potent by doing that alone. With titans, I think there is less of that. Overshields do not compare to invisibility. Banner is the aspect I can maybe think of, but it was left out. Same with the aspect that generates sunspots.

I miss when Titans were the soldier class. Give us an aspect similar to knock em down that rewards weapon slaying. More viable grenade builds.

Look, the one thing I don't see a lot of people talking about is the Titan Prismatic grenade. Bungie, swap it to a Magnetic Grenade-type grenade. The Warlock and Hunter grenades stick to enemies (the Warlock one kinda sticks). My Titan's grenade bounces off big targets that fly and completely misses. Swap it to a Magnetic Grenade, let it suspend on contact then an Suspending explosion on the first explosion and a Jolting explosion on the second explosion.

Who would punch harder with prismatic? A beefy boy with big shoulder pads and known to punch or a speedy boy with knives on their hands.

I’d like unbreakable to last longer when used, do more damage and grant grenade energy based on damage blocked with maxing out the meter fully refunding it. I want to see all the barricade abilities on the class item work somewhat with thruster. I want to see more ways for the fragments to tie back into Titan aspects more and for the aspects to interact with one another more. It’s not unfun, just overshadowed and generally frustrating in comparison to warlock or hunter prismatic in higher tier activities.

I'm so glad multiple content creators are mentioning this. I was getting so frustrated with Prismatic in general--even more so with Titan. I really hope Bungie fixes it soon.

"No more weird looks at the beach for me this year, mainly because I won't be going" "If you wanna look like a person again" Datto knows his audience so well 😂

I remember when we were all like aww dammit 5th subclass is just green first of havoc but it ended up being pretty good. Still wish we had a stasis or strand machine gun super but the new super is awesome with star eaters so its a start!

As a warlock, the way I’ve always seen titans is as stalwart shields-men; sword in one hand shield in the other. With a brutish and destructive capability. They had honorable mysticism about them, like warlocks are inscrutable and mystical, or hunters compassionate, daring survivalists. But I feel the fantasy has separated from gameplay, mostly for titan. It suck’s seeing them basically crayon eating punchers. Especially when the game kinda doesn’t handle cqc well.

We did the master Salvation's Edge challenge today. I started on prismatic but after a while switched to strand because survivability and melee regen are much higher than on prismatic. Also its crazy how many benifits combination blow gives: stacking damage buff (up to 300%), hp back, start health regeneration , full class ability back. For titan you have to use at least an aspect + exotic to get the same effect.

As someone who's been doing the Legendary story atm on Titan in my first run, being forced to run prism SUCKS a LOT and the struggle is so real. Encounters that I know id crush with ANY of my other class choices im struggling with cause survival is NON-EXISTENT on prism. To top it off, missing basically any viable options off the bat too? This sucks man. The nerfs didn't stop since Beyond Light and anyone who was oaying attention knows that. Ots just FINALLY after a fuckin 2 long years is coming to head... I can't wait for them to barely change much and still leave Titans with just being able to punch in 5 flavors...

its melee or nothing, then when Titans make a good melee build it gets nerfed 😭 I never minded being the "melee class", but if they want to pinhole me into that playstyle they better not keep nerfing it

So I've been a Titan main since D1 and there has always been a lack of care for the class as a whole. Some nerfs that affected utility like the shoulder charge nerf expending energy or the lack of any movement utility makes the class hard to play. My favorite thing in D1 was the ability to Titan skate, it gave a power fantasy of a fast, hard hitting tank. You had a factor of aggression that no other class could match. But now not only are we the slowest class but we don't have any way to close the gap. Ward of Dawn nerf made no sense, it wasn't even utilized to even warrant that change. Overall I think they have to redefine what the class means. Preferably some more movement abilities and a super that isn't in your face. We have no utility outside of CQC. And if that's the direction we're going with, then make a way for us to get in and out quickly. Just my two cents.

I would have loved to seen prismatic titan get fusion nades and the mark can roll ashen wakes, ashen wakes with armamentarium would be so fun

Titan is the epitome of “Live and die by the sword”

As a titan main hearing this line "Titans are easily replaceable with another warlock or another hunter" has basically summed up my D2 experience for the last 2 expansions and all of their seasonal content. But people will say this is just Titan copium because they don't like Titans. So I'mma just shut up because this is a community that largely is against the class I play.

Should have talked about titan classes in general because its not just prismatic that has these issues

As a Titan main since D1 days, I love my tanky boi, its just gettin tirin with Bungie's philosophy of "second verse same as the first" when it comes into consideration for Titans. Remember how hyped a lot of people got when the Strand concept art came out and it looked like Titans were gettin this flamethrower style super? If they want to keep us as the frontline wall, im ok with the different melee supers but its ok for them to lean out from that every now and then especially to allow us to have more mid to long range super options. You can still build this center point, grab attention to keep off teammates, wall of force as a juggernaut with like a minigun or big cannon as well as runnin around like you're on crack as a strand titan. Hell one of my fav thing is slappin Sweet Buisness with Actium on lower level content and just laughin manically while never lettin go of the trigger

I wish so hard we got Into the Fray instead of Drengrs Lash as the supercharged aspect for Prismatic Titan. Give it the Diamond Lance treatment and make any ability kills spawn Tangles. Really gives the Identity of being crazy tanky to the Prismatic Titan bc they could easily stack Woven Mail and other forms of resistance.

Came here fast as FUCK boi for some pro-titan content and the transition into the balls content has tripped up the gerbil in my head.

All i want is for Titans to be THE TANK CLASS And for Hunters to be the fastest class in the game

The only time recently where I've appreciated a defensive role on a team was during the Excision GM, two Ursas were amazing there. Otherwise I don't really see defensive titans anywhere.

The blast from the Unbreakable shield needs either a damage buff or a debuff application, and afterward should give increased grenade regeneration based on the amount of damage absorbed.

I love how historically the class that has had the most OP skill and broken supers has been Hunters and even Warlocks back in D1 with the self-rez, but Bungie was like "We need to make sure Titans aren't broken. We don't want them running amuck. After all they are the least popular class. Can't have them thinking they're special."

I really want to see someone make a build for unbreakable aspect because i think its a really cool concept.

I would love to see vids like this for the other classes too! Awesome upload Datto

I'm just really glad ive managed to find a build that isnt just triple consecration, using shield throw with doom fang pauldron and glacial quake as my super. it generally works with any super but i find glacial quake to be the most fun for me. I basically get to alternate between using my super and using transcendence, and since you get so many melee charges back during transcendence so long as theres even a remotely dense amount of adds i can usually go from 0 super to having my super in about 30 seconds, on contest mode first encounter (and in master) i was easily getting like 2 to 3 glacial quake casts per round of the encounter. (this also ended up working out pretty well in GM glassway today, though i had to be a bit more careful with my ability usage) That being said, pris titan does still feel very beholden to its melees and when the game has a lot of areas where melee is discouraged or just doesn't work, it feels like we got the short end of the stick. When hunters get nighthawk with still hunt, stronger melee builds with grapple and perfect execution, combination blow and spirit of caliban and then warlocks get the getaway artist build and a raid exotic that pairs perfectly into strandlock and 1.4mil damage nova bombs with spirit of star eater, it feels really really bad to be left with half of our perks on the exotic class item being minor utility perks for our barricade while the other half just do what our existing exotics already do for melees.

2:00 Words of wisdom right there

Can I just have some more grenade-based builds on Titan again? HoIL and Ashen Wake aren't doing it for me like they used to, and while Unbreakable is fun, it doesn't feel very grenade-like. I can do more than punch things!

The problem with titans is that they struggle to keep up with the three main types of traits a fireteam needs, being ad-clear, support and boss dps. Warlocks have historically just been the apex class for ad clear and support, while hunters and titans have always been fighting over being the highest damage class. While titans have an amazing damage set up with strand melees, it can be very situational compared to the hunter’s amazing ranged dps of still hunt and celestial. When it comes to prismatic, titans are very melee oriented as well, which can be tricky in harder content.

I've been running Drengr's lash and knockout with Abeyant Leap and strand melee + suspend nades, you get the extra suspends waves on each shield plus woven mail on suspends. I use the fragment that gives health on melee kills and the one allows orbs to give the class buff based on super. Use the solar super for restoration on orbs or strand for what is basically infinite woven mail, or void for the overshield. Obviously it still has some of the issues you mentioned like lack of firepower compared to other classes and it is a bit dependent on melee kills for healing unless you use the solar super for restoration from orbs. I think it should be good enough for GMs, I haven't gotten a chance to test it yet.

Thing is, prismatic titan can't function at a baseline until they rework the entire titan kit and it's subclasses. Titan has always been extremely lackluster designwise, it was just bad design propped up by overtuned numbers.

Let's be honest... Titans... We're useless in endgame content, our supers are useless and very niche, our exotics aren't good unless its for something that's niche as well, and we're not able to do anything without the other 2 classes doing it, and being better than us! Bungie gave us nothing to use and ran with it. As a Titan main, I've been playing the other classes more than Titan because the other classes have more usefulness than my main character and I will find myself being kicked from SE, for running it on Titan.

What sucks about the Prismatic Titan kit isnt just the Melee focus to be successful, its the low survivability with it, part of why Bonk hammer and Banner of War were so loved were how you could play aggressive and it would keep you alive while using your melee for whatever you want, theres no bonk, no sunspots, no banner, unless you make a lot of orbs or use buried bloodline there isnt much uptime with things like devour or woven mail either, and the only source of Overshield outside the artifact is Unbreakable which can have a lengthy cooldown based on your discipline stat, meanwhile you get combo blow on hunters and devour on warlocks that let you play at least somewhat more aggressive and restoring health as you kill enemies, it just would be nice to have something as part of the kit vs just from orb generation which can be harder for multikills outside your super in higher end content

TDT made a really good video highliting this issue as well. Glad to see people talking about the titan problem more.

why is bungie so afraid of melee? Like, what aversion is there to punching things? Bungie nerfs scouts/snipers because they consider them "safe" options, but when it comes to melee, the unsafest option, they just....nerf it more? I'm not saying titan shouldn't be reworked to something else, but like if titan was at the very least the defacto punch class and wasn't outclassed by hunters/warlocks it'd help a lot more.

My opinion has arrived

I think it would be cool if titans were weapon specialists, with perks fragments and aspects that play into heavy and special weapons. Imagine if you could run a shotgun primary titan build, with machine guns granting buffs to teammates...

the grenade shield aspect can be used to block dmg from the witness shape attacks, so you can stand in it even if dmg is hitting to confrim your glyph breaker

Unbreakable with the solar grenade actually kicks a lot of ass offensively, because there's a bug that makes it do full damage regardless of how much it absorbs, and grenade effects, such as Facet of Dominance and Spirit of Verity from the class item applies to it. Zaouli's Bane with demolitionist, a grenade kickstart mod, and Inmost Light as the other class item perk means every 15ish seconds, spawns permitting, you can be throwing out 400k+ damage (to Navota in the 1995 nightfall last week) blasts with Unbreakable with very high uptime on overshield. It's astonishingly effective, and it's gonna make me real sad when they inevitably fix that bug and Unbreakable drops down to like 40k damage blasts without having to somehow convince enemies to do damage to it first.

OMAHA

I've been enjoying a shatter build on prismatic titan, using a hoarfrost exotic class item and glacier grenades and veglas curve. Thunderclap is very good for smashing lots of crystals at once

i actually do really like Unbreakable and Drengr's Lash with Abeyant leap for gms, yeah they dont syngergize but its nice to have woven mail and void overshields stacking and to have a bunch of crowd control with transcendence

I like the part where the prismatic titaned and then the guardian and witness kissed

Datto is quite literally the only creator I watch the ad reads for. The creativeness is unreal

This touches alot on the problem i kind of have with Prismatic in general, most of the builds with it essentially just copy a previous build from a specific subspec (combo blow etc) and i feel like part of the issue with the defensive builds is made worse by the fact that ppl now end up with restoration, devour, woven mail etc stacked from the same build meaning that theres less incentive for defensive abilities.

0:18 No, my brother in Christ, it stemmed from YOU. When you had a meltdown on stream during the raid race and started going on about how "Only hunters beat the raid" and that "Titans are useless" that then everyone started parroting that.

I have found Diamond Lance + Drengr's with Pulse nades, Sentinel Shield, Thruster and HoIL to be fun. It kinda devolves into throwables spam but it's at least something *other* than just trying to melee everything (although the Lances and Tangles spawning amidst enemies still means the loop puts you in the fray)

As a Hunter main I've been having so much fun running a triple consecration build in Nightfalls, Exotic Missions, etc. Only issue is that you're kinda locked to using Monte Carlo if you REALLY wanna spam it, but it does feel amazing and super powerful linking 3 consecrations into prismatic into 3 consecrations into Super then repeat. It does really feel like its the only build I will ever use on Titan though, which sucks because I have like 6 builds on Hunter I can rotate through at will and not feel any significant power difference.

Once i realized during my 1st legend campaign playthrough, that i didn't need to keep using prismatic, i went back to my syntho strand build and have never gone back. The fact that i can proc BoW so easily, even after all the nerfs, and keep it up with my weapons from a distance, means there's almost no reason to run anything else in most situations. The only thing that would ever get me to consider prismatic would be if they had a celestial style exotic for Twilight Aresnal...and even then I'm probably going full void instead.

When using drengrs lash with repulser, it actually doesn’t send out a shockwave that suspends. It instead places a tangle in your places which explodes 2 seconds later and suspends targets it hits.

atm im using a prismatic titan build that uses pulse nade and shield throw with Dlash and diamond lance and its veryy potent in endgame content like GMs, kackis has a video on it and i highly recommend it if youre tired of the same old titan builds

I had some ideas of how I would change the subclass. I'm a Warlock main so the Titan mains can let me know how they would like them. So to start, I restructured Prismatic with 2 goals, to eliminate redundancies and to add sustain of any kind. To start with the melees Shield Throw -> Shield Bash Hammer Strike -> Throwing Hammer Shield Bash gives a full overshield on kill for better sustain than the partial OS the throw provides and does more danage than Hammer Strike. Hammer Throw is iconic to Titans and provies Cure on pickup. For Grenades, I thought they were mostly fine and varied with playstyle and all are effective. I decided to switch Suppressor to Scatter grenade but I don't have a strong opinion here. For Supers, i realized that Hammer of Sol is useless compared to Twilight Arsenal and Bladefury so I'd prefer Burning Maul as a more unique and usable choice. Aspects are tricky. My first thought here was to look at Drengr's Lash and Diamond Lance because they, in essence, have the same function. After looking at the Stasis aspects, I came to realize Behemoth's aspects are really only good on Behemoth and that DL was the most subclass agnostic so I chose to keep it. There are 2 options with Strand aspects: convert the lash into Into the Fray or Banner of War. I think BoW would be more balanced without Grapple but would step on the toes of Knockout, the only real Arc aspect choice. Although, I'm not opposed to having both. What I decided on was Into the Fray but more opened up. Have it give Woven Mail on any elemental pickup, destroying a tangle or Diamond Lance, and on Super activation. I think the danage reduction of Woven Mail is a different type of sustain that still synergizes with Knockout. I must also acknowledge the preference to switch Consecration for Sunspots. In which case, I'd switch Drengr's to Flechette Storm. I also switched up some Class exotic perks and changed in which column they are. In column 1, Abeyant is switched for Icefall Mantle. Maybe not the most meta pick but it does offer a different playstyle. Also in column 1, Alpha Lupi becomes Lorely Splendor. A good sustain choice that does cost your barricade. It'd work whether Prismatic had Sunspots or not so it'd be impossible to make more but is a better sustain IMO. In column 2, Severance Enclosure becomes Peregrine Greaves. I thought Severance and Point Contact were redundant together and that Point Contact was more desirable since it doesn't require kills. Peregrine would also give any reason to choose Shield Bash over other choices and can pair with Assassins Cowl. In column 2, Eternal Warrior becomes Pyrogale. Eternal Warrior may be somewhat helpful but its boring. Pyrogale would only offer the Burning Maul buff and not the Consecration buff. I also didn't want Pyrogale and Star Eaters to be in separate columns for balance reasons. Maybe I'm off base with some of this but I tried hard to create more synergies and make different gameplay loops and for it to be mostly viable.

I really enjoy Diamond Lance with Drengr combined with the new rocket chestpiece. It really nukes stuff in regular stuff up till the master nightfall. idk about GM or contest but insta-nuking every elite and champion by hitting the thruster next to them and watch them as they are strung up and getting missle rained on.

I ran a build in gm glassway with abeyant leap jolting pulse nades, shield toss, drangurs lash, and diamond lance and I felt the strongest I have ever felt doing gm glassway. I think I mainly felt that because I was constantly transcending. I think titans transcendence nade is the best part of the subclass, and using a ranged melee to spam it more when transcending is not something most titan’s have tried. This probably wouldn’t really be nice for master raids unless you had a abeyant leap + star eater scales class item for a better dps super on top of the good suspends. I hope that whenever titan gets changed drangurs lash isn’t removed because I would be sad.

watching that titan prismatic grenade bounce off the taken blight will never not make me snicker

From my knowledge the only 2 titans that finished the day 1 raid were using strand and void. The choices for the void and solar super clash with the aspects. Example Maul and Consecration work well together with Pyrogale, and Shield works with Unbreakable with Ursa. By only having 1 of these is hinders the setup slightly making the basic void and solar sets just better than Prismatic. i used the banner shield and Unbreakable for the legendary story when playing with friends because it was the best option for supporting my friends (the ammount of super regen and orb dropps i had was insane). Whenever add clear was over prismatic just couldn't sustain itself due to having to kill with a melee to get anything going. I did better in that fight with Solar, Strand and Void than i did with Prismatic due to the detrimental design philosophy. Drengir isn't worth without Leap equipped, ice lance is less effective without icecap, and arc in general either needs point contact or skullfort, which both need melee kills to be worth using. -Glacial Quake is great damage but you are completely defenceless when using it. -Hammer is just worse without sunspots, -Thunderclash when it doesn't phase through the boss (this happens so often i just refuse to use it anymore) is just ok damage now (even with falling star it feels weaker than ever). -Blade barrage is decent but has no range so bad for ranged and airborne bosses. Twilight is great, but it is still completely outclassed by other classes damage outputs. Just changing the Aspects is going to be a huge endeavour, since the class item was designed for those aspects it would make all class items with perks connected directly have to be changed or they would be useless.

things I wish prismatic titans got 1. an aspect like facet of dawn but it grants one of the defensive buffs based on the type of the powered melee used ex. Using frenzied blade grants wove mail to you on hit and near by fireteam members on kill. 2. allow knockouts effects to proc on hit ex. After proccing knockout melee hits grants healing and amplify. if that's too strong you can give it a cool down 3 drengr's lash get an effect like dealing damage to a suspended or servered combatant creates an severing explosion. And grants knockout levels of healing 4. Shield throw weakens on hit and grant full over shield on kill 5 thruster grants amplify on cast and increased ability regen, rally barricade grants radiant on cast and tower barricade grants void overshield on cast 6. diamonds lance should get an effect like shattering frozen combatants grants a stack of frost armor defeating frozen combatant grants 2 Also enemy threat should be tied into resilience

Really hoping i can get a titan mark with HOIL+Armamentarium for 3 melees and 2 grenades with boosted cooldowns I also think shield throw really just needs 2 charges, then you can use all those melee synergies effectively at longer range

great analysis datto!

titan axes super with star eaters is just so nice, just under 1mil. when surges were still a thing, i managed to get just under 1mil below a still hunt nighthawk hunter by using axes super, stasis linear and cloudstrike with the auto loading mods, i was not matching the surges with anything other than the linear either. 6.3m on witness

I started the expansion with Warlock, got through the whole game until farming for class items in the pale heart. I switched to titan because i wanted to level some more, and i am addicted to my strand/arc loadout. Suspend, cannon brace thunderclap, orb, woven mail, repeat.

I played Titan quite a bit in Pantheon and Onslaught, and the months leading up to Final Shape. I played that entire campaign on Titan first, but switched to Hunter and haven't touched it since. I miss my Titan and hope they dial back their concentration on melee.

Into the Fray would be the easiest possible fix for Titan. Not only do you get access to Woven Mail, but you get melee recharge rate while in it, which would actually give Titans some form of ability regen. Abeyant doesn’t even need to be removed at that point. All you’d need to do is switch which half of the exotic is active and it’ll be fine

I would love to see the banner shield from sentinal titan get the same treatment as the unbreakable aspect. It would give sentinel titans a place in endgame pve to provide support and then damage. Whether it be from an exotic or a rework I think it would be awesome.

Currently unbreakable with solar grenade is doing like more damage than its should and its absolutely crazy. It may get fixed but until then its been a blast ,literally. Cheers.

Melee fantasy is why I fell in love with titan in D1. Banner of war/frenzied blade and (glaivepilled) winterbite saved the game for me. Until its a boss or enemy floating in the sky. Then I remember that I should have brought an izinagi or in recent cases, just played GG hunter

With hunters and warlocks also being able to achieve near maximum possible damage resist with their prismatic kits (30% from a fragment, 30% from woven, and 30% from frost armor or the amplified mod) Titans would genuinely need a damn near damage immunity button to go beyond. I think they should lean into damage output reduction with sever and such

Honestly, this feels all too familiar. I’ve been a titan main for years now, and this sentiment of titans being useless had always been there. Even back when bubble synergised with warlocks’ well, you only needed a max of 1 titan for the ulti, every other titan felt like a liability to most people. And it didn’t help that every fireteam needed a well, but bubble was just a nice bonus. So as long as I’ve been playing, titans had that identity crisis of not being best at anything (well, maybe apart from personal survival, titan gave me an easy time in all my flawless raids), and all of this simply peaked in Final Shape.

Prismatic titan needs quite literally 2 changes IMO. Replace unbreakable with Controlled demo and make it work with Drengrs Lash and Diamon lances. Gives offensive power to crowd control and another avenue for sustain from range. Also brings use to shield throw as a ranged melee. This would give that real prismatic interaction where you have an avenue to truly combine light and dark abilities. Also put spirit of Cadmus in the second Column. make it so you can make lances from behind your barrier but it doesn’t generate crystals on enemy impact. This would give a meaningful way to combine titans crowd control abilities and have a multi pronged crowd control loop based around your barricade which would be pretty cool