“2.2x the price for a game that doesn’t let you plate while sprinting.” i felt that one…

What most people do not understand, is that access time did not make any major improvement since 166 SDRAM. for SDRAM running at 133MHz access time was about 7.5ns, for DDR5 running at 4800MHz with CL36 is still about 7.5ns access time. DDR5 8000@CL36 has about the same latency in terms of time, not cycles, as DDR4 4000@CL18. Sequential operations are faster, but random read / write take about similar tima as with SDRAM 133MHz :)

Thanks Jufes. Your input helps sift through the crowded tech options.

Notepad and MS-Paint are my favorite day-to-day tools too in 2022. You rock man!

Every time I hear him talking about price / performance , I say to myself "thats how I would explain it if I had his knowledge", greetings from Argentina nice videos.

Thanks for your video, I was wondering the same thing, it answered all my questions. Most people owning the DDR5 Intel platform will never break even with basic DDR4 B-Die build lmao, I'm one of them, since I watched all your previous videos, I knew that this would be an uphill battle with only the best cherry-picked parts reaching those speeds... I already own 4000C16 32Gb Dual Rank B-Die, But I just couldn't fathom harboring last gen equipment in my case so... it's the price of owning premium.

Would be interested in observing the scaling from 7600 to 8200 at the same timings you've achieved at 1080p low setting in WZ2.

Long live the 10900k… looks like we are getting close to that 10900k/4090 video finally 🙌🏻

“that doesn’t even let you plate while sprinting” I’m dying 😂

Yeah too much time spent learning how to tune bdie on z490 unify (thanks to this community), no chance I'm doing all that again for DDR5. Still slaps is right. A 240hz OLED is wayyyyyyyy more interesting way to blow money anytime soon.

I'm still on the fence bc I have some really good bdie ram @3600 14 14 14 31 and I'm sure I can go higher frec no issue (over 4000 MHz) but thing is getting another 16gb of the same would cost 130 bucks so they match and not so sure about silicon lottery. So should I go extra 16gb ddr4 or should get 32gb ddr5 6000 at least?

hi!! Last month I make a quote ("cotizar" in spanish) ddr4 4000 (2x 16GB) cost about $180-200 (now it is about $150), so I preferred to buy Gskill 6400 (HYNIX IC) about $210 and pair with 13700k and MSI Z690 Edge wifi. I am very happy, very good performance. Now I am waiting for RTX 4070 Ti or 4080 discount... Thanks.

another point is that most people probably have a 2x16 bdie kit that overclocks to at least 3800 already so all in all you could literally deduct the ddr4 price completely..

Great info and comparison, but I have a nitpick. The system performance (fps) should be compared to the system cost (build cost). It's more like, assuming a 4090, a $3500 PC with DDR4 vs a $3850 DDR5 PC, which is a ~8% performance boost ideally for ~10% more cost. That sounds a lot more reasonable, but there are caveats that you mentioned.

Spot on. Maybe there is some silicone lottery involved but with DDR5 its still a tough job getting high freq mem kits stable without spending a lot more time/$$ plus binning and tuning like you have. Bandwidth will always be better but save the disappointment when you see the latency and freq limits of that "budget" DDR5 setup bought on sale. Its funny how A-die went from unobtainium to littered on the market in the matter of a few months. RIP to early DDR5 adopters who paid too much for those green sticks. Do yourself a favor and buy returnable, put the money towards your gpu.

When you compare frame rates to the systems, are you speaking in 1440 or 4K or 1080p?

im so glad i can rely on u for information u have just made my day i am saving up for new build for a dedicated gaming pc im going intel and i already got 32g of them vipers 4000 and im going to get that mobo u mentioned im prob gonna go 13600k first for fun then maybe 13900k later on . anyway just wanted to say thanks for being honest also im a member for ur discord but ive been having trouble everytime u sent invite i would click on it and it would say invalid

TBH when I finished upgrading my build I asked myself whats the next goal realizing there are no more HW goals to chase. Now I have to deal with the fact I built way overkill machine for casually playing online games with 0 excuses for underperforming there. At least wallet gets few years to recover.

Is 3800mhz cl14-14-12-24 @ 250 rfc good? My prime z690m will not do more in gear 1.

I think that fps gain probably get even lower when playing 4k+ which you probably do with a 4090.

Great video! I honestly think of I went DDR4 B-Die, 13900K I would keep that System for at least 6 years no Question. It does everything I need it to do from Emulation to Raster Gaming. Even if I decided to jump into content creation I have hella cores to assist with that. Doesn't seem like a bad proposition honestly.

so what ddr4 ram you suggest buying? I'm guessing G.skill but which one haha

Is 4x8 4000c15 going to last me till DDR6 on my 13600k z60 MSI Pro A?

Really good analysis.

I use 5800x with 2x32GB kit at 3800mhz and 16-16-19-16-21-66-4-6-16-3-6-16-554-3-3-16-8-8-4-1-4-4-1-6-6-1 with 57ns in aida64 and don't have a reason to upgrade to DDR5. It works flawless. I run my PC 24/7 and never crashes.

Great content as usual Jufes. When you say that DDR4 4000 is the threshold, what CL roughly are you talking about?

What kind of Auros ITX is that? I can't find any that's priced better than other Z690s.

Running 12900k with 3733cl14 Bdie. Might last me till DDR6? I usually look for 5year upgrade cycle. But GPU upgrade every gen to best tier.

love the thumbnail man :)

got my 12900k. dont mind spending the $380 for ddr5 but how many average mother boards will do the 8000mhz gear2??? i am not looking to get an ITX board. really would like the digital number fault codes but they are not on any ddr4 boards i want. i think gigabyte makes one but i wont buy there boards.

Give this man a podcast

Can you do a review and possibly a overclock guide of HP's V10 which is currently $160 right now for 32GB of B-die RAM

What is the best ddr4 32gb kit to get? From my research Teamgroup is the best? I’m coming from a ddr3 system. Already have a ddr4 motherboard and i5-13600k. Just need to order new case and the ram from next check.

Should I wait to install my new gpu until I get new ram sticks

I'm rocking b-die 2x 16GB Trident Z Royals on my 5.3 GHz all-core 12900KS at 4200 MHz 16-16-16-32 w/ tuned subtimings (completely stable). It can also do 4000 Mhz 14-13-14-28 but that gives slightly lower overall performance even though the RAM calculator thing says 4000 CL14 is superior to 4200 CL16. Another weird thing: I cannot do 4133 CL15 or even 4100 CL15 even though I can do 4000 CL14 and 4200 CL16. Weird, huh?...My kit at default is only a 3600 16-16-16-36 @ 1.35v kit. It's not even the higher performance 3600 CL14 or CL15 kits, and that makes my RAM overclocks even more satisfying. Board is the MSI Z690 Edge. I might lower the OC down to 4000 CL14 @ 1.55v. The 4200 CL16 needs 1.59v. I know B-die is supposed to be able to handle 1.55v all day long but I'm a little concerned about 1.58v+. So far it's been 5 months and no fine though. No crash ever, not in any game, in rendering, nothing.

Love your vids

Year or two ago I would agree, but unless someone looking now to buy PC and dont plan to upgrade CPU in next 5 years it might be better to get DDR5 othervise next cpu gen upgrade would need new CPU, MB and memory anyway. MSI is already EOL some DDR4 Z690 motherboards. Ofcourse it does not matter if you buy $300 MB+CPU+ran combo, but for expensive highend it does.

I have an itx mobo inside a full tower case for my game rig lol

"Doesn't even let you plate while sprinting" This is the best line in life

100% agree ,people lose sens of reality with all the marketing,they dont even understand why they need the expensive parts

my 12th gen intel will not do drr4 4000 mts gear 1 even with all the voltages related to ram turned up, will only do ddr4 3600 mts gear 1

If I already have a kit of Samsung B-die at 4400, what kind of a DDR5 what I need to be better than that? My main games are Warzone 2, and Spider-Man with Ray tracing 😂

I was able to oc my memory to 3600mhz with 14-14-14-28 so I hope this os pretty good like for ddr4.

Damn that not plating and sprinting really hurts

Im good with my 4266 bdie and 13700kf, yall spend up though. It’s not worth it until a good DDR5 kit comes down to around $250

Tbf it depends on if you're an enthusiast. If you're just going to throw on xmp then high end ddr5 smokes ddr4 by a viable margin. Once you tune both it gets a lot closer tho. All depends what ability and amount of time people are willing to put into their system.

Nice. Thanks

I have i9 13900k/RTX4080/128GB DDR4 3600 @ CL18 and i9 13900ks/RTX4090/128GB DDR4 3600 @ CL18 - both running gear 1 (my 128GB RAM 4000 sticks didn't play well at gear 1). Comparing my benchmarks to videos on here and I hold or exceed their numbers so have zero motivation to move to DDR5.

If screen resolutions didn’t get higher & we were still on 1080p, we would be in an era we’re choosing a ram kit will be like choosing a graphics card!

So glad to have you bro. You’re literally putting all these tubers to shame who praise ddr5 is a must.

THERE it is. I told you this 4 months ago.

how about ddr4 5333MHz?

I repeat my question since it seems way more relevant here and may be relevant to some of you as well: I was on a MSI Z690 Pro A DDR4 MoBo with CL 19 Vipers running 4000 MHz XMP: 15 seconds bios screen time - no problem. Since I switched to a 13900k the system does not post when I activate the 4000 MHz XMP profile 1. Some MSI-automation kicks in though and asks me to raise the CPU clock to match XMP-profile 2 with funky timings and a 3789 MHz clock or something weird like that. What is going on here? I have 4x 8GB Vipers installed - after I watched some of the older DDR4 overclock KZfaqs on Frame Chasers I had the idea to try just two sticks on second and fourth slot as my last resort. Will I get my 4000 CL19 back with a manual "overclock" or should I not bother? Thank you in advance to whoever of you wonderful beings may decide to share their wisdom with me.

i have ddr4 4400 c16 , best decision i ever made

looks like my ddr4 is still eating tonight

When playing New World with my 10900k my gpu usage drops when in the city. Going to 13900k my gpu usage sticks to 100% usage when it is he city. That’s with the same b-die ddr4 ram and 3080 TI graphics card at 4K. I can definitely see the difference moving to 13th gen from 10th.

What about ddr4 in 2023, for 5700x@4.7ghz all c. Vipers 32gb 160$...

Just bought the crosshair am5 mAtx for 700€ and 64gb 6000MHz for 500€. That's 1200€ or just a few years ago 2400$. ;_;

Does anyone happen to know what DDR4 motherboard he was talking about for $150? Considering upgrading from a 3800X to a 13600k, and i already have a kit of b die

Man I'm still rocking DD2 @1600mhz OC'd over here. Going for z690 \ DDR4 hopefully is gonna last me until DDR8 comes out. Haha.

best ram kit for a dark hero mobo? 5900x dont care for rgb.

A bit offtopic, man whats wrong with your monitor gamma/color settings in this video? whenever you open notepad/web browser, my monitor becomes the sun and i dont like sun🤓

I have ddr 4 and 5 rig difrence in fps warzone 15fps and 3 to 7 difrence in low

im still on ddr3 lol, its on x79 so quad channel memory tho.

6400c32 kit is 32gb for $219 i run that kit 7200c32 THAT is best value ddr5

I had a 4790k with good ddr3 and 1080ti as my main gaming PC and still today it’s the one in my room for my main gaming. I have a office PC I built a ryzen 3700x and put a 2080ti in it for a office PC … It’s alright but the difference between the 2 PCs is basically nothing unless I have a frame counter in top of screen. I could of easily skipped ddr4 completely and never noticed a performance difference if I wasn’t slightly crazy and own like 6 PCs with dgpus in my house … I have built PCs whenever I found a good deal on hardware the last decade and sold them and gave them to family members… I currently have a 1650super 2060 2070 2080ti and a 1080ti I just sold my 1060 6gb and 1070 last month just becouse it was starting to get crazy the GPUs laying around I still have a couple rx580 8gb I can’t give away literally haha no one wants a Radeon card like it’s insane. Have had Craigslist and marketplace adds for $40 and haven’t even had a offer … one kid claimed he needed it for school I told him I’d give it to him if he would come to me I wasn’t going to drive and he ghosted me for a free rx580 8gb hahahahaha the old gtx 6 series I think I still got like 3 of those in my closet to…. I was thinking about building a new Intel machine after Christmas once prices drop in February… probably go for a 13400 or 13600k … but at same time I built a 11400 build for like $200 for motherboard and cpu last month for a gaming pc for a family members kid … to me that’s probably the sweet spot right now for budget and if you get the non f chip it has Intels media engine so if they get into editing videos or decided they wanted to stream those are some very capable igpus I was shocked lately at how well Intel has done with there igpu it seems no one talks about it but it’s on par or better than Nvenc in everything I have played with it in benchmarking. Being on the cutting edge is such a diminishing returns like the pcie 4th gen nvmes … it’s just not really worth it for most people especially if you are on a budget mindset when building.

ALWAYS BANG FOR BUCK, but I still want my 4k 144fps setup.

I use ddr4 with 13900k but ONLY bc i move from 9900k and i stick with my 32 gb ram. So I change only board and cpu.

🏆

ITX is the way to go for DDR4, i was able to get DDR4 4933C17-17-17-28 to run in 1:1:1 with a 5700G with a cheap af Asrock Phantom Gaming ITX i think i bought it at $109, and the RAM was $89(16GB) Same board does dual rank 32GB 4600C16 but that RAM requires alot of voltage to go that high something like 1.6v

You made my day for calling it how it is poeple who buy the most expensive shit usually can’t slay for shit 🤣

Serious question does ram speed really matter if I play mainly in 4k. ?

so ddr4 isn't obsolete then

finally someone who is telling the truth

I’m thinking the 3D VCache Ryzen CPUs will smoke anything that Raptor lake offers at 6000mhz. High end DDR5 with those parts is unecessary just like the 5800x3D. AM5 is a better platform going forward as well

DDR4 vs DDR5 lolz war zone runs better on consoles optimization matters

12:00

A frame chaser gets to warzone to validate his demons or a warzone player gets into frame chasing because of the performance?

HaHaHa Assuming you have a 4090 i love your shit lol

I’d be cheaper just to hack on mw2. Instead of spending that much money an still win tournaments

2:47 - Wow, you graphs are amazing, HBU could learn something from you.

My DDR4 4800 gear 2 feels better than DDR4 4000/4266 gear 1 and DDR5 6000. I don't care about synthetic numbers and only care about how game feels. I will test DDR5 7200/8000 when 2 dimm boards are available.

ddr5 vs ddr4 gaming benchmarks very unimpressive differences

great video I'm running 13900k / strix d4 z790 32gb ddr4 @ 4,300 MHz 15-16-16-36 @1.58v /282 trfc /gear 1 Adia 64 73.1 k read 67.9 k write 78.6k copy 45.5 NS adia 64 36 NS in Intel latency app UPDATE on days off i managed 4,400 mhz Gear 1 16-16-16-36 @1.57v passed 7 hrs of tm5 absolute adia 64 75.3k read 69.5k write 80.1k copy 45.1k latency 35.7 ns intel latency app I tied with sugi lovers 6 GHz 13900k and ddr5 8000 MHz cl 32 in csgo benchmark he got 1005 fps I got 1008. to 1010 fps same 13900k @ 6 GHz ht off e off 51 ring I'm keeping up with 8000+ ddr5 I'm staying on ddr4 update I ran 4,300 cl 15 ddr4 gear 1 passed tm5 absolute and y cru cher ect ran 6 GHz e cores off ht off and scored 1047 fps average in csgo benchmark. the 4400 cl 16 gear 1 I ran was about 15 fps slower vs 4300 c15 gear 1 . same sub timings

Absurd arguments, this metodology comparing ddr4 cheap itx board to expensive ddr5 is a waste, try wider spectrum of games instead of just one, and to ensure i know all the results and price differences i’ve just finished 6 builds with ddr5 which are monster fps machines paired with Strix 4090. Investing in ddr4 now having cheapo 6600/6800 is stupid.

If you're building new rig now you go for DDR5 even if you end up with slower RAM, period. Ram speed is also becoming less and less important with bigger CPU caches. CPU's are dropping DDR4 support and then you end up in a situation if you want to upgrade you have to change 3 components instead of 1. Not to speak if you get a malfunction you have to rely on 2nd hand market parts

the only reason not to use DDR5 is the price only ddr5 7200MHz+ wins ddr4, but the price is too high as of 2022

Algorithm

Funny at all these boomers spending $5k of top of the line pc gaming rig with ddr5 and a 4090 getting slapped by timmy and jacob with their 2 year old xbox and ps5 consoles.

second!

It’s doesn’t “feel” good to say you’re on a 10900K in 2022 😅 jk

jewfus

So weeks ago you trow a big punch to the video HU say DDR5 is the correct option in buy a new system...and now ..youtube NEVER FORGET