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I think the whole "hands do not summon us, it is desire" thing is accurate. Kirsty didn't desire to summon them, but she DID desire to solve the puzzle box. Tiffany had no desire to solve the puzzle box, it was a compulsion. She has a compulsion to solve puzzles, so it's not really something that can be thought of as a desire to solve them, she just can't help herself. She sees a puzzle and she has to solve it.

“Your suffering will be legendary, even in hell” is one of the most badass movie quotes ever

“and to think... i hesitated.” that line was so well-delivered.

"Everyone is solving it." That's the point. The Cenobites WANT people to solve the box. Presenting it as a puzzle game is just a method the Cenobites use to sucker their victims into performing a magic ritual to summon them and open a way to hell. Cenobites cannot leave Hell on their own.

James is so lucky he realized that he hadn’t done a popular staple horror franchise that has a lot of movies otherwise he would’ve had to do Thankskilling 3.

I nominate this video for best sponsored segment of all time. So cute to see James and Chelsea work together on it. 🥰

It's amazing how the composer managed to somehow use Tibetan horns to blow out morse code for the word "God", that's a lot of effort, mad respect to Christopher Young.

This movie is a masterpiece of a sequel. The glowing, moaning bodies on the slabs in “Frank’s den” were just *chef’s kiss* for creativity and imagery.

The patient screaming "Get them off me!" is still one of the most haunting things I've ever seen in a horror movie.

“Who you callin’ pinhead?”

“To think I hesitated.” Is one of my favorite lines in horror movies. It says everything you need to know about the allure of the power of pleasure and pain.

I really like how it took terrible puns to make Tiffany talk. That’s honestly the most hilarious thing ever

The line: "It isn't hands that summon us, but desire" hints at how the box works and why it is supposed to be hard to open: the box is easier to solve for those who have a desire to know the secrets of the cenobites. Kirsty's desire for answers, to know what was so special about the box and what was happening in her house, was enough for her to be considered worthy and there is also clear interest of the cenobites in her, so there is a clear darkside in Kirsty that the Cenobites are picking up on. With the other films, we see similar things: each character is either curious about what the box is and can do or there is a different (often sexual) desire that drives the character to mess with it. So in short, if you have either enough desire to open box or alternatively enough curiosity, the box will aid its own unlocking. If you lack both desire and curiosity, the puzzle is nigh impossible to solve. That's where the legend comes from. From people whose desires were too small and their curiosity not great enough, they would have to solve the puzzle the hard way and that's very difficult apparently Tiffany would be in this category as she had no desire or curiosity, only compulsion due to her disorder. Yet due to her compulsion, she wouldn't have given up until she solved it and that allowed her to actually managing to solve it like the hard way, through the mechanics of the thing. A similar things happens in Bloodline, with a robot solving the box. The robot managed to solve it due its programming, it had no desire to do it or curiosity for it. They didn't take the robot as well, despite solving the box. Though while they did spare Tiffany, likely because Hell does have a rule about not hurting an innocent soul and Pinhead at this point is still a stickler for the rules. The robot was destroyed as it had no soul and the Gash was pissed of finding something they couldn't torture.

“im no longer just wicked step mother. now im the evil queen.” is actually such a kick ass line

I absolutely love the "Im a doctor" bit that James has never given up, fantastic

Fun Fact: This and Titanic hold the records for most times the main characters repeat each other's names in a movie.

"Call me Kyle" "Yeah, what the fuck else was I going to call you?" Legit laughed out loud at that.

Franks punishment in hell has always fascinated me, as if his own sin was being used against him. That seems like a far worse way to torment someone than just physical torture.

Always love the Sea Of Thieves references James!

Fun Fact: Leviathan is meant to be the embodiment of Envy, so him being the god of desire really works

Loving the Hellraiser kill counts! “And to think, I hesitated”

"They didn't tell you, did they? They've changed the rules of the fairy tale. I'm no longer just the wicked stepmother. Now I'm the evil queen. So come on! Take your best shot, Snow White!" is my one of my favorite villain quotes.

I know it's a small role, but Oliver Smith needs some special recognition for how much he put into the role as the insane guy that thinks he's covered in bugs. Seriously, dude was 100% convincing, and he made that moment so disturbing.

One thing about James that I love so much is that he reminds us just how much of a collective action it takes to make a good movie. He talks about the director, producer, writers, actors, background extras, make up artists and etc.

Maybe the Cenobites were like "Okay our hands on rule turned out to cause a bit of a ruckus last time, so how about we go with desire instead? I think that would turn out much more consistent results long term." Then they held a vote and everyone except the Lady voted yes. She was pretty upset, yet still went along with the new ruleset because she recognizes the importance of keeping the democratic process intact.

"All out ceno-fight!!!" The amount of hype in these words are beyond explainable

"It was meant to look like a penis! What do you want?" Best quote of 2015

I love how, while he strived for the movie to stay true to it’s source material’s intentions, he wasn’t afraid to change things, or let other people influence the movie.

I honestly think James is the most binge worthy creator on KZfaq. I literally end up watching kill counts constantly when I’m just chillin no matter how many times I’ve seen the video

Hellraiser sequels after two: James...we have such sights to show you. James: no. Oh please God no Hellraiser sequels after two: oh, no. No tears. It's a waste of good suffering!

I can clear up that “desire” thing Tiffany was tricked where as Kirsty made the decision on her own

I still would love to see the Leviathan original form. A massive eldtrich horror of ooze and gore would be so cool.

Note that when Spencer is being tortured and transformed into Pinhead he is screaming, but also smiling. I think this was to demonstrate the dual-nature of the cenobites: extreme pain AND pleasure.

I completely lost it when James broke character in the preview talking about the night club. Press F for James dealing with another hard-to-count mass killing scene.

So I do feel the need to say that the Cenobites are awesome and I love how much they have in common from the God Hand in Berserk. They all make for some crazy brilliant antagonists.

I was so disappointed that vibrating guy easily killed Pinhead.

Always love the subtle little wordplay referencing stuff non-horror nerds will appreciate, James. The subtle note that Sean Chapman voiced Psycho in the first Crysis game is great.

19:05 Chatterer was Leviathan's favorite, 2nd in command under the Hell Priest "Pinhead". Chatterer was the muscle of Pinhead's gash.. My personal favorite Centobite in design and backstory that hits me hard in old scars when I first read about it all.. Comics and toys from Hellraiser fill in the gaps, but I'll paraphrase.. A young orphan named Jim, a boy who framed his own mother for murdering his abusive father.. While an orphan, Jim engages in a homosexual relationship with another boy named Seth and they both became prostitutes when they were teenagers.. Jim's deepest desire was once, "To be loved" but it was twisted by the clients who often complimented his physical appearance into being, "To be ugly." So someone could love him for who he was, not for his physical appearance.. The client who asked Jim about his deepest desire gave the young boy the Lament Configuration.. He becomes the keeper of the box until years later when he comes across a blinded Seth, who was punished by their pimp with blindness for Jim leaving.. Jim was told to give the box to Seth to open, but instead Jim has sex with his former lover... Seth expresses nothing but hate towards Jim the entire time... This betrayal made Leviathan enraged with jealousy and from the loss of Seth not being a claimed soul... For Seth left without opening the box.. Leviathan instead takes poor Jim into the labyrinth to be warped, burned, torn, twisted and horrifically scarred beyond recognition.. Blinded by scars to mock Seth's fate of blindness, muted by his own chattering teeth, his once beautiful and flawless skin that his clients lusted for was now a mangled mess of flesh that has been cut, burned and torn over and over again to the point that Jim was all scar tissue.. Chatterer was born from the desires of a heavily abused and broken soul of a young boy, the longing for love caused by so much trauma and abuse was now long gone; the desire to be ugly however was fulfilled.. Chatterer took only one soul, most likely Seth, to serve him within their dimentional hell as a reward from Leviathan for his loyal service; the Centobite known as Torso was Chatterer's personal slave.. After Chatterer's death, Torso is left to search for his master out of desperation and abandonment.. Torso only appears in one Hellraiser movie, but the toy figure says that Torso was Chatterer's personal servant and what I said above.. The Chatterer Beast was made by Pinhead and Leviathan, missing their loyal servant Chatterer.. It use to be a person, but now it has no humanity left within.. The Female Centobite was once a Catholic Nun.. She's not really related to Chatterer's story, at least I think, but it's a little extra info for anyone interested.. While she is sometimes called "Deepthroat" for the neck wound, I prefer the name Female Cenobite when you consider her backstory and that not having a real name removes any pride from the equation for the former nun's destroyed ego.. She is not the only female Cenobite, there are more in comic lore.. The Engineer was much better in the book, but it is one of the ways Leviathan changes humans into Cenobites.. Let's not talk about Butterball... Or the pseudo cenobites from Hellraiser III: Hell on Earth..

nobody: james: “CENO-FIGHTTT” me: “shit just got real…” 😂

The INSTANT you said it was as good as the original film, I IMMEDIATELY stopped the video and went to watch it. Now I’ve come back and in all complete honesty, as a massive fan of Lovecraftian/Cosmic Horror, I think I like this movie A WHOLE LOT MORE than the original. The imagery of the Leviathan as a massive eldritch trapezoid spewing out blacklight like a cosmic lighthouse, over the infinite sprawl of its Labyrinth took my breath away. Also, Julia serves as a much more interesting and intimidating villain in this movie than Frank did in the original. The special effects were just as good if not better, the acting was MUCH better, and the overall pacing and narrative of the film as a whole always kept me engaged. Thanks for recommending this movie! Gonna rewatch it now!

"It was meant to look like a penis; what do you want???" God, even the behind the scenes stuff is amazing

"Leather daddies, AND leather mommies! AND leather... Whatevers!!" Yes representation of all here!

10:28 Thats basically Pinhead's way of saying to Channard "Did you really think we were that stupid?"

The background decor for this franchise looks awesome! I've been looking forward to Hellraiser Kill Counts for so long, and the payoff has been great. Thanks to the Dead Meat team for doing such great justice to one of my favorite franchises!

It’s funny how I didn’t really remember the stories in Hellraiser, but I remember being terrified as a child. I should rewatch them, I think I’d enjoy them now.

The reason chatter is a kid: before being a cenobite he was an abused child, one day he randomly came across the box and decided to play with it, when he opened it he was obviously dragged to hell, rather than torture the poor boy leviathan decided to make him a cenobite, he later became the right hand man of Pinhead and Leviathan, being one of the highest ranked cenobites

I love the Beatles references in this video this has to be my one favorite Kill count episodes

"Mirror had it comin'." The low-key one-liners from James are the best!

I’m really so glad you made a Kill Count for Hellraiser. Like man, Cenobites just looks so iconic and memorable and so goddamn disturbing. But man, it felt like they had no idea where to take the story after the first few movies, which is pretty unfortunate.

I get the sense that "drawn not by hands but by desire" is more of a matter of a quick psychic compatibility test, a desire to experience and learn, even at great personal cost. Kirsty didn't know or want to be in hell when she first called them, but she's fit for the place. So much so that in the comics she becomes a cenobite equal to PH.

Best line ever… “Ooh, baby keeping secrets.” 😆

This is a REALLY mixed bag for me. It definitely feels more like the original than the other sequels, but there are plenty of moments and logic leaps that really bug me. And I'm REALLY not a fan of how easily the Cenobites are taken out. But, with that said, Clive Barker does have a point with these movies being uneven.

You know being on set must have been an absolute blast if the whole crew returned.

My headcanon about why the Cenobites didn't take Tiffany when she solved the Box was because she was asked to solve it, Kirsty on the other hand opened the Box of her own volition, since curiosity is a desire to know.

First time I watched this I was in hysterics twice. First on the section where Channard is walking through the basement and looking at the patients through the peep holes, and theres a weird priest who screams in a really intense but absolutely hilarious way! Then, just Dr Channards laugh and scream made me literally cry with laughter

This is one of my favorite horror movies. I love the first Hellraiser, as well but that movie has some odd pacing that makes it feel a bit awkward at times, like it couldn’t tell if it was a family drama with bdsm demons or a bdsm demon horror movie with family drama. Hellraiser 2 feels much tighter, more sure of itself, and more sure of what it wants to be to me.

I like to think of Hellbound as the Dream Warriors of Hellraiser. Best sequel that moves the plot forward while expanding the universe. Plus Kristin helping a young patient with a gift? It’s like partly the same movie lol.

I love that Chelsea is becoming a regular of the "to the numbers" skits

When Pinhead was talking about desire, he was meaning free will. The kid was forced to solve the box, she didn't choose to solve it of her own free will. Christy while she didn't want to summon the cenobite, did infact choose of her own free will to solve the box.

My headcanon is that the "it's not hands that call us, it's desire" is in reference to the doctor who wanted to see the puzzle solved, she was merely the tool, the hands that solved the box but it wasn't her desire that to lead her solving it. And just probably returns because they can only choose to go after the puzzle solver. But don't have to

Having the “lord of the labyrinth” as a weird shape emitting darkness instead of a humanoid figure was infinitely more terrifying to me when I first saw it.

kirsty is underrated as a final girl. she’s fantastic!

"Get the hell out of hell." Lol that line cracks me up! 🤣

10:33 for anyone wondering whe pinhead said desiree she ment Julia and channard because Tiffany didnt knew what would happen god bless You james

i think Kirsty had her own desires, which is why the Cenobites came to her the first time she opened the box, the young girl however was too innocent in her mental state but the cenobites still came due to Chanard and julias desire. I also always assumed Frank was Kirsty's actual father, it seemed Frank had a habit of banging his brothers wives. it really makes the "Come to Daddy" line and his lust after her all the more awkward.

Laying in hospital with a catheter in my chest helping my collapsed lung. Thanks for posting this and giving me some joy! Love the videos as always.

21:42 It always catches me so off guard when James makes Sea of Thieves references, but it always puts a big smile on my face

Thank you so much for putting the lament configuration on a lazy susan behind you James 🤣

I think Hellraiser 1 and 2 are the best of the series.for obvious reasons like the practical effects,the story, the characters and just the gore in general, it's amazing.

This is a AMAZING sequel. It’s rare that I love a 2nd film as much as the first, but my god this is one of the few. Once again a reminder that Doug Bradley is an amazing man and if you look him up, he has a YT where he reads to you! And of course, we simp for shower James. Amazing as always my friend!

Maybe it was simply too subtle for me but the thing I really appreciated in the Hellraiser reboot is the expansion of the lore and what the different configurations represent. That stuff was great and I really hope they keep the series going because I very much enjoyed it.

I know Kenneth Cranham (Dr. Channard) from a 1960s performance of Harold Pinter’s classic absurdist play “the Birthday Party”, he was fantastic in it

My thoughts on "It's not hands that summon us" - Kirsty picked the box up and solved it without knowing what it did - so they came for her, Tiffany was given the box by someone who wanted it solved - so they came for Channard

I love the part where Pinhead saves Tiffany. It shows that the Cenobites are strictly speaking “good or bad” in the traditional sense. And it makes them more interesting. Sadly the films after this forgot that.

Hey, just so you know Hellraiser: Hellworld was actually also pretty decent. I would like to see you do a Kill Count on that one as well please.

I believe the rule regarding desire is based around having a direct desire to solve the puzzle. In Hell's Orange and Blue Morality, the desire to solve the puzzle is taken as a desire to call the Hell Priest and his Gash. Tiffany had no innate desire to solve the box, it was just something she does. The desire to open the box was the Doctor's and he used her to solve it.

“So much of this movie is these two ladies running down Hell’s hallways, what is this? An episode of Doctor Who?” My favourite Dead Meat reference ever!

Watching Spencer get cenobited the first time I saw this movie as a 12 year old really cemented horror as my favorite genre

Can I just say how universe bending it was to be looking at Doctor Who memes on my phone and have James say "What is this, an episode of Doctor Who???" I thought he was gonna come through my screen and tell me to pay better attention to his video

The "Michael Shannon-looking cop" is none other than Gold Leader from star wars.

The Pillar of Souls. Ah yes. And that line. "What is your pleasure sir?" My most favorite and memorable movie line.

That scene at the beginning that brings Julia back is so memorable in its brutality. The leeches and maggots are awful, the psychological horror of this doctor torturing his own patient and the bugs trapped beneath the straightjacket, and the visceral sight of him cutting the bugs away with the razor… it really stuck with me.

I love how creative Frank's punishment is. Its obviously a bit grim and gratuitous yet its so cool. The one think he wants is always so close yet hell tortures him with it by keeping it away from him. Rejigging it to make it a lot less.... hellraiser... would prove to be a great device in other media.

As a viewer who is hard of hearing, it’s always such a pleasant surprise when a video has subtitles that aren’t automatically generated because dear god they’re always so incorrect

4:55 this reference to the Beatles is why I love James. Man his comments are an extra,which makes these videos better then others.

I think Kirsty had a desire to understand the box’s significance to Frank. That combined with the fact she did it herself was enough for the cenobites. I personally like that Pinhead has a moral code about these things, it makes him way more complex than the average slasher.

4:16 I just realized that "GET THEM OFF MEEEE" soundbit was used for the zombies in Half-Life :) slowed & pitched down a bit

Apparently it’s cannon that cenobites can’t die. Whenever they are “killed” it’s just the human part of the cenobite being freed, with the actual cenobite still remaining in hell, and still able to do leviathans bidding.

I always love to hear that a first-time director was able to get through things because of a supportive cast and crew.

This feels more like an old Kill Count video than a new one and I like it!!

Honestly speaking, despite how gruesome the whole movie is, you gotta love the dedication put in by everyone. Super funny how the most grotesque films tend to be directed by some of the most wholesome people. xD

What if Leviathan doesn't ACTUALLY control the cenobytes (or even care if they exist or not), but the cenobytes simply believe that Leviathan controls them?

Kristy still had curiosity and wanted answers, that’s why she was still held accountable. Whereas this girl was straight tricked and would never have solved the LC if not for the doctor. That and she clearly does not have all her faculties in order, and Pinhead does seem to be somewhat honorable and follows a moral code

Imagine the universe where Yugi found the lament configuration instead of the millennium puzzle.

I love watching James do these kill counts it feels like watching the horrer movies without having to watch it thanks James.

I found Channard's cenobite look to be pretty cool (minus the tentacle. Though the hand tentacles are pretty dope). So that's how Cenobites are made. They are represented by how they die in the creation chamber I suppose?

Its only a matter of time until James opens the lament configuration and releases a Thankskilling 3 kill count

I'd say that in the first movie Kirsty was kind of... curious of The Box, so when she solves it, it is because of some feelings? It's a stretch, but, I'm trying to find any logic. Like... you know - curiosity is the first step to Hell. Tiffany, on the other hand, didn't have any feelings towards it. She just likes puzzles and she was tricked/forced to solving Lament Configuration, so... yeah, I'd say with a bit of stretch, there's some logic ;)

Tiffany has no desire to open the box. It's a compulsion, a physical tic, almost. Kirsty may not have known what opening the box, and may not have desired to summon the Cenobites, but she DID desire to open the box. She fell prey to her own curiosity, which is very normal and human. It's not a HUGE desire, but it was desire.