Mr. Baker: “please don’t be condescending.” Dr. White: “have you read any of my books?” Mr. Baker: “no, thankfully.”

This debate is like watching an average guy trying to run against Olympic track athletes.

We need to pray for Lee Baker's salvation.

Mr. Baker is in so much pain. We should all pray for him. This is the fruit of mormonism, guys.

Thank you guys at Apologia so much for posting these. Such a blessing.

Why is Mr. Baker even in this debate? It's painfully obvious that he has no clue what's going on and is severely confused on the topic. He definitely did not listen twice as hard as he debated, like he said he would in his opening statements. What a waste of Dr. White's time, which is apparent in the wrinkles on his forehead...lol. I'll be praying for Mr. Baker and his understanding.

Dr. White is the ultimate pro debater on all levels. He should teach debate as well as theology.

After I was saved, I certainly had doubts about the authenticity of the Bible. I read a book called 'Jesus, Interrupted,' which was very critical. Ironically, it taught me most of history is less accurate than the Bible. I have had lessons in textual criticism since, but I never doubted the Bible again.

So according to Mr Baker, the book of Isaiah isn’t in the Old Testament. Because he says that the messiah was not shown in the OT to have been born of a virgin, or die etc. but in that book alone all of his accusations are refuted. Maybe it is because a lot of Jewish rabbis don’t even acknowledge Isaiah 53 because they know it describes a suffering messiah who perishes.

I'm always so hyped for James White. "I'm asking the questions here sir" I'm dead 🤣

The whole old testament is about the life death and resurrection of Christ . He still has the scales on his eyes .

I’m 10 minutes in, and I don’t want to be unkind, but this is the weakest opening statement I have ever heard. Dr. White’s gonna blow this man out of the water. We need to pray for Mr. Baker’s salvation. Maybe this debate will make him rethink some things.

This is an outstanding debate. Great job James. I pray Mr Baker will see the light of Christ soon and continue searching

That was phenomenal. It was amazing to see James have immediate answers to all the questions and profoundly refute Mr. Lee. It was almost like listening to a child crying because he didnt get a sucker because he didnt do his studies and failed his class. And the parent, James, tried to reason with him to say, if youd did your homework and studies, you would understand the message of Christ as Messiah.

Well done, Dr. White. Debates like this demonstrate the clear reliability of our Bible!

It hurts to see Mr. Baker struggle so much in this debate. He just was very unprepared and you can see he's deeply hurt from his past with whatever Christian teaching he was given. It seems his responses are not based on evidence but on his anger and hurt. I hope he will realize that Jesus can heal those wounds. Prayers for him

What I’m hearing is “We need to throw out the NT because I didn’t do my homework” BOOM

This isn’t a debate ! Mr. Baker seems unorganized and anxious ? He talks about the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and apologizes for what he doesn’t know ???? Already lost !!!

You’d think this guy would have watched a few debates to see how they go before agreeing to debate one of the most well respected apologists of our time. Man this is rough.

Hi Lee, l have been so grateful for your videos coming out of Mormonism. I appreciate your sincerity, l know that feeling as an exmormon as one who feels the betrayal of being lied to. My search for faith God and grounding took me all over this world. It was decades untill l found the Lord, Jesus. May l respectfully suggest you keep your heart and mind open although you are tempted to throw the baby Jesus out. Your arguments didn't win here tonight. I am praying for you, and l care for you.

Easy win for Dr. White. I actually feel stupider for listening to this whole debate. Lee is so helplessly confused and super ANGRY about it. I pray that he see the light.

Dr. White did a good job, but Lee left a lot of his arguments toward the end where they couldn't all be addressed. Lee has 4 lines of argumentation that he uses against the NT and only 2 of them came out in his opening statement. This recorded debate is an excellent tool to help the rest of us who are dealing with the aftermath of Lee's apostasy. Thank you Dr. White for taking the effort to do this debate. I'm going to be putting out a full detailed review of this debate to help viewers understand how Lee mixed and matched is 4 lines of argumentation throughout the debate and clear up what Lee didn't get out on the table during the debate. Again, this is going to be a very helpful tool for those of us who are trying to help the Ex-Mormons who are struggling with his apostasy. Thank you! Thank you! BTW, I just posted Dr. White's initial rebuttal to Lee's 15 points here. I appreciate that your ministry gave me permission to post this review. Again, we really appreciate your help with these issues - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iZtppdubmNeloIE.html

Pray for Lee. We don't need to criticize his confusion or anger. He is searching for something. God has a plan for him. Let's pray God's plan for him is salvation.

Thank you for posting the debates. This is a subject that hits close to home as a dear friend has gone down this same rabbit path and has left the faith. It breaks my heart. Thank you Dr. White for always standing for the truth.

I hope and pray Baker rewatches this debate and learns a lot of things from it. Mainly that he repents and turns to Christ. Baker sadly seems to have attended churches that didn’t have competent leaders and clearly weren’t scholars. Much love to you Baker, hope you and your family turn to Christ. Thank you Dr White for accepting the debate, maybe Dr Brown needs to have a long conversation with Baker also.

Thank you for all your debates and interactions. It’s all given way to very necessary knowledge that has given me the courage to share the gospel with every persuasion of person.

Wow. Baker literally said like 30 lies during his closing statement. He is beyond ignorant.

“You bought the cheap one, and Christianity is wrong because of that!?” 😂😂😂

In his defense, he just wants answers. Maybe a 1 on 1 session would have been better than a Live Debate? Blessings to Lee for asking questions a lot of people are scared to ask. Thx for the upload.

I feel bad for Mr. Baker. That made me really sad.

"I will listen twice as hard as I will debate" - speaks almost every 1-4 sentences James speaks.

1:03:53 Correcting the verse numbers before hearing the question 😂. Well done Dr White!

This guy doesn’t need a debate partner; he needs a therapist😔🙏

Dr. James White closing statement literally gave me chills. You can see the difference between the fruits of Christianity vs atheism.

Lees sarcasm shows his frustration. Hes been burned it seems more than once...i feel sorry for him hope he finds peace

What’s Lee gonna be next year, Buddhist?

FINALLY!! We can comment on Dr. White's debates!!

Mr baker is not understanding that at the start of the first century ALL the Jews knew to be looking for the messiah because of Daniel 9. THAT is why there were so many false messiahs. Why was everyone looking for the messiah then? Because it was prophesied to happen then. My questions IF it wasn’t Jesus who else could it have possibly been? He had to have come before the destruction of the second temple. Who besides Christ could have been the messiah?!

Lee Baker left mormonism but mormonism never left him......

My heart goes out Baker and his family. He’s still searching for the TRUTH and journeying in unlearning the deceptive teachings of the Mormonism that they were once entangled by. Praying that the spirit of wisdom and revelation enlighten the eyes of his heart so that they will come to know the full knowledge of the TRUTH🙏🙏❤️

That cross-examination was painful

How about 2 Kings 22? They had lost an entire book of the Old Testament law for a time. Baker has to understand preservation of the truth vs intentional manipulation. My heart breaks for his unbelief and that he gave up hope before getting an answer to his questions. We need to teach these things more so that our generation is not left questioning like Mr. Baker.

“Can you explain it to my like I’m 5” -baker

I am so grateful for Dr. White's ministry. Glory to God.

If Baker really wanted to know the truth, then he would have spoken to Dr.White or another educated Christian scholar that knows a lot about the Bible privately, instead of making himself look like a fool in front of thousands of people. It's Baker's fault for getting roasted up so bad. He was asking for it:)

I learned this content semester 1 of Bible College.

-This guy has just been demolished by Dr James White- Press F to pay respects

I think Lees problem is thinking God just dropped His Word in a bound form straight from heaven like Muhammed and Joseph Smith. This is how God has used infallible people to preserve His Word

Brilliant how it ends with "we'll be singing Psalm 2 and 110 tomorrow"

Second thought, who is responsible for giving this man credentials to be an evangelical church leader? I am a young believer and am blown away at his misunderstanding of the ancient gospel and lack of church history knowledge.

I sincerely hope that Mr Baker actually watches this again and fact checks everything.

great debate. for some reason, the moderator looking clueless the whole time was cracking me up :D

I usually fast forward the opponent's Dr. White debates, because I start feeling bad for the individual having to go up against Dr White. Especially a newbie, my heart breaks for them Lol

This debate affords us, in Lee Baker, a case study in pitiable blindness to one's own incompetence. It's heartbreaking to see someone so disoriented, confused, and lost in a cloud of whirling emotions, arrogance, and ignorance.

James White did an amazing job. 👏👏👏

This was embarrassing. "Will listen twice as hard as I debate." I snickered a bit when I heard that in his opening statement and knew that was gonna be completely false.

Lee Baker is not the only one to experience this kind of awakening. It's not just from leaving the Mormon church, I would suspect its the same leaving Jehovah's Witnesses. I felt a similar way leaving Iglesia Ni Cristo. Unfortunately, once you've been lied to about something you have put your entire soul into it can be crippling to discover the truth. It takes time and prayer to come to Christ openly without all the old baggage. He can overcome the doubt and hurt he's feeling but right now he really needs to sit down and shut up and listen to teachers who have a heart and the love of Christ in them.

Daniel 9, is a messianic scripture of the 70 weeks. JESUS arrived in Jerusalem weeping and said “if only you had known.”

Dr. White saying “excuse me???” to the moderator had me sitting up straight

When brother James asks questions with that serious/critical tone he reminds me my philosophy exam, my professor had the same tone

Outstanding! I always learn from your videos and debates! PRAISE BE TO JESUS THE ONLY ONE, THE MESSIAH

Mr. Baker could not answer who the writer of Chronicles was, yet refused to acknowledge it was similar to not knowing the author of Hebrews.

Good stuff!

It is absolutely reliable because just like the time the New Testament was being written, we are living in the church age. Except we are at the end of that age. It gives us clear directions on how to live as a Christian and how to prepare for Jesus's arrival.

Are Mr. Baker's now's available anywhere online? Or could be sent?

Praying for the Baker family.

The only thing that's sad about debates is how heated the get, understandably so, but maybe the love in the words gets lost

This was literal use of "test the scriptures" I liked it, it was informative

This should never have been a debate. This should have been Baker asking for White to teach him on some basic understandings, allowing Baker to work thru his questions, etc. and then make a decision after getting all answers he desired. Making it a debate was detrimental.

Very good and so anointed defense Dr. White

This was painful to watch.. When someone can’t comprehend the points, how is a debate even feasible ?

@Apologia Dr. White has recommended we all look into and study the history of the transmission of the Bible. Do you guys have any recommendations and/or resources to recommend to do that?

I met Lee at a Manti missions trip. At the time thinking he was quite odd. There he was, white shirt, black nametag, and an oversized Book of Mormon, standing on a step ladder and challenging Mormons. They were standing around, probably more curious about him than anything else. As I was standing there I noticed he was challenging people to interact with him. Frankly, I wouldn't either. After the was done, I went over and tried to talk with him. He seemed amiable enough but dominated the conversation. I think one of the concerns I have with touting the people who leave Mormonism too soon after is that they've not had time to settle down, emotionally, mentally, or spiritually. I've seen it in other areas. For example, when John Paulk and his wife, Anne, left the gay life (she being lesbian, him having been a drag queen) they were put on just about every talk show there was and touted as an ex-gay success story. They went on to have two boys. I met John when he came to Dallas to do a talk show. I was on the show to talk about the military and potential issues (I was a former Ombudsman with the Navy). I took him to what was then the largest gay church in Dallas. He was very uncomfortable and cried when we left, evidently heartbroken at what he saw. When a drag queen ran past us on the street, he turned his head and leered at him. "She's nice looking!" He said, as if proud that he was now leering at women and seemed shocked when I told him: "John, that was a drag queen". FoF, FRC and AFA all put him on a pedestal. Far too quickly. In 2000, Paul walked into a known gay bar in DC and was spotted and outed. He lied about why he went there which only made things worse and eventually was forced to step down from his spokesman position with Focus on the Family. A few years later I contacted John via social media. He was not very welcoming of the contact. Not that I pointed fingers, I guess I was just a memory of a past he wanted to forget. Why do we put people on pedestals to begin with? For one thing, it seems to me especially dangerous to seek out "big fish". You'll find there are more of us who went on with the real Jesus that were never heard of and never intended to be heard of. I prefer the background. I like researching and writing more. I like my life quiet. Though once you've had a fatwa levied on you, well, your life somewhat changes lol. I think people who leave any false religion and turn to Christ should go through Paul Training, where they have to wait before they can go out and represent Christ. Wait, be taught and be tested.

Can someone post a link for that exact bible he held up at 22:51

WOW... Dr James White has great patience.

I score that a first-round TKO. Poor guy. It's getting hard to find opponents for Dr. W.

We need to pray for this gentleman that the true authority of Jesus is revealed to him

Dr James white crushed this debate also, i almost feel bad for him as both of his most recent debates have been against people who just get angry and stop debating

James White is a precious gracious Brother! One of my role models thanks Dr.White…

I shouldve waited till the end. Lee has not been born again, after being born from above itll make sense Lee

Ive read everything Dr White has written and especially suggest the potters freedom and the congealment of jamss and paul conscerning works and faith in the forgotten trinity. His scholarship is written that academics and laypeople alike can read and understand his stuff. God bless Dr White and Mr Baker

I pray that no one is lead astray by Mr. Baker's ardent skepticism. There is a self-authenticating nature to the Holy Scriptures. The sheep of Jesus will hear his voice. Anyone who can't hear God's voice in the New Testament is not a child of God. I pray for Mr. Baker's salvation.

I appreciate that Dr White sticks to the issue.

Mr Baker professes an argument from ignorance. He flat out says "I don't have time to read stuff, so therefore it's not true." That has to be the silliest argument I've ever heard. It's seriously hard to even listen to this man without banging my head against a wall. Dr. White exhibits so much patience and grace with this man. May God open Mr Baker's eyes to His truth.

How can people read Micah 6:8 and not feel they have had good direction?

I love how he keeps on saying you are the expert... yet I know more than you! The 🤦‍♂️

15:33 what was the motive? to correct errors or add details? what is your motive now for the changes you are now suggesting?

I’m not sure why people keep referring to Lee Baker as Brother Baker. Lee Baker is not your brother in Christ if he denies Jesus Christ...pray for his salvation because he is not in any way your brother. He is an enemy of God needing salvation.

Well done Dr. James White. Clear and concise exposition and apologetic.

See 1:32:00 for why mr. Baker is confused. Dr. White nails it. Baker is applying his understanding of the Book of Mormon to the Bible. He doesn’t understand the process of textual criticism influenced by newly found manuscripts compared to the Temple updating the BOM.

I recommend Dr. White's debate with Bart Ehrman on the reliability of the New Testament. I was genuinely surprised at how easily Mr. White defended his position and how he poked holes in Ehrman's position; considering Ehrman's status in academic circles.

The trinity indeed is hard to grasp, especially in the beginning.

Hey guys, I dont want to be led astray. Can someone suggest to me the best study bible to learn from? Thank you!

where can i find the bible he has or whoever makes them?? pls help

Well done Mr. White, God Bless.

This breaks my heart

I pray that this man returns to our Father and rejoins the church. He is searching and wanting to find.

Citing William Craig wasn't his best move. He's a philosopher, who believes in evolution and is constantly changing how he approaches God's word to align with secular science.

“ listen twice as much as you debate”….. true

"How could God have done it better?!" 😁 My goodness but the moment you utter something like this as a professed believer the discussion is over.