How expensive was the tank?

@@bsignora6099 ....the tank alone is about $900. But, you also need the exhaust/combustion air ductwork for it to operate. My first unit had a through the roof exhaust/combustion air duct extending 3' above the roof while my newest is through the exterior wall. I prefer the latter as the ductwork length is considerably shorter by comparison. Also, the newest model is considerably quieter than the first....meaning the exhaust/combustion air fan noise.

@@bsignora6099 .....I might add that there is no such animal as a "tank". Unlike a tank-type which holds heated water and repeats it and repeats heating it again and again to the set temperature. The tankless has a copper exchanger that holds maybe 1 quart of water when not in use, but engages a blast furnace type flame to heat the water only as you need it for as long as you need it for a rapid rise in temperature. They are entirely and totally two different animals. One stores hot water and the other makes hot water only when you call for it.

You have to get away from the "mind-set" that a tankless is an INSTANT HOT WATER source. It is NOT unless the unit is mounted in your shower. I don't think you would want that. It was lightly covered in the video, but the wait time for hot water is very dependent on the lenght of water piping from the unit to your tub or shower. But, that is the same issue if you have a tank-type. You can install a recirculating system within your hot water piping system (very expensive by itself) to get the benefit of instant hot water supply. So, don't be misled by the "instant hot water" claims without a supplemental recirculation piping to each of your hot water points. Let me give you one other point to consider. You go on vacation for 3 days or 2 weeks, your tank-type will continue heating water to the set temperature regardless of use. Big loss of effectiveness and efficiency. On the other hand, if you leave the house for the same period of time, the tankless NEVER runs. If there is no demand....there is no hot water produced! Period!

The CONTINUOUS hot water system I used recently did not work on low flow, it had to be turned on to high flow rate. I turn my storage tank off when I holiday, ezi pezi They do work, millions of Japanese use them every day. But if gas will be restricted in the future you will not get your lifetime value. True ? ?

lol thanks for the input.. here in thailand we use one small tankless in the shower (75 to 150 dollars) ive seen many old ones still working fine... the rest of the house sa bai sa bai no have! lol

oh and there electric

@@marcinasia1731 precisely. the one component I forgot to mention that affects the life of tankless and the need for descale is temperature. My Asian family and friends in the Pacific don’t use hot hot water on a regular basis. If the temperature is kept below 110 on a consistent basis the tankless will last a long time, without descale. Anything 120 and above will require water treatment and or regular maintenance.

@@marcinasia1731 that tells me by itself that you don’t waste water. Electric types (here in the states) don’t have the same recovery as a gas tankless. Americans want 120 plus temperature while using multiple shower heads. A waste of water and energy.

Yes, this guy is very misleading

sounds like it might really depend on local water quality. either way, tankless seem like more potential headaches compared to other options

Other than periodically descaling, what maintenance have you had to do? I would have expected tankless seem to have fewer maintenance issues. I descale every few years (water softener) and have had few problems, while with the tank I had issues regularly

The answer to that question starts at 7:14

For rentals, I'm going to agree before watching the video. My experience is to revert back if possible. Renters don't care or need endless hot water. They won't pay more rent and if landlord is responsible for utilities...ouch. Any plumber and many handyman can repair/replace the tanks at a moments notice. New units and parts are available 24/7. Renters aren't willing to wait for days/weeks with no hot water for warranty work or ordered parts. As a eco/solar(battery) ethusiest, heat pump is the only way to go. As contractor that dreams, both, tankless and heat pump. Heheh

Most tankless units have dozens or more error codes, many sensors and electronic parts which are hard to get replacements for in emergencies, not to mention costly after most 2 year warranties expire. We've had internal condisate problems, leaking exchangers in the combos, venting problems on really cold days, power exhaust vent issues or failures. Saying these things will last 2 decades, makes me laugh. I don't see the benifit in dumping money non-stop into maintaining equipment for the sake of endless hot water. As for efficiency, nobody looks at the btu's, the amount of gas required to heat a volume of water. The cost savings may be pennies over years. We required gas line upgrades to almost all properties where these units were installed which was very costly. They don't make sense to me or our development company, we stick with the basics now. (K.I.S.S)

He's been shilling sponsored products for years dude...

I don't watch that many of his videos, and I'm guessing a lot of homeowners interested in tankless may watch this video and not know his other content. I just wanted to warn those viewers to take this video with a grain of salt. There are no outright lies in it, but many of the things he says as if they are general facts about tankless do not apply to all installations. If I'm being generous, much of this video is true if you're looking at typical construction for the Southern US and a house with gas or propane service. I'm guessing that's most of the homes Matt works on regularly, If you look at a typical electric-only home in the rural NorthEast, where I live, this video is far less applicable.

Correct. Also hard water issue cause the sensor in the tankless to fail. The tank doesn’t. Tankless all around is better till you have issue. Once you have issues you’re waiting days, unlike tank you just run to HD and get what you need right away! 🤷🏼‍♂️

On my tank I had a powered exhaust fan and power going to the valve. A power outage would not allow either of those to work

@@beaker2k unfortunate that you needed a booster to vent and they installed a fail safe. Lots of tanks are vented on short runs and don't rely on any electricity.

I had power outages for DAYS.

Any plumbers here like clearing blocked drains? Or anyone like watching it?

Cool super smart people in us the type of products are not popular

When the video sponsored by one brand I doubt he will do another brand.

How does that work and where did you locate it.

@@Dwb913 it’s part of the unit, it’s built inside, when going through the start up wizard, it asks if you want to use internal recirculation, external, or no recirc. When using internal recirc, it will automatically come on about every 30 minutes for a few seconds to keep the water in the “buffer” tank hot, therefore not having to wait as long for hot water or have a minimal usage to trigger the unit to come on.

I'm looking into the Navien NPE-A2 & Noritz EZ-SV. Any insight between the two you can share?

@@eaglerider94 no experience with Noritz, it is a popular brand though. We had a few issues with the A2 as far as replacing the internal check valve on 3 so far.

Things have changed a lot in the last 16 years. In the early days they had lots of issues. I got my first in 2015 and was impressed with reliability and performance. Moved across the country and promptly had one added to the home.

That it wouldn't start or start in degraded mode suggests one thing, once you ruled out gas flow issues, air flow. Fresh air into the burner unit, exhaust out, any restriction would give you exactly what you experienced. If it was a non-condensing unit, the exhaust should still be quite hot at the vent outlet outside. If it isn't, you have a major air flow problem that needs to be resolved. Condensing units are a lot more efficient, so the exhaust will be cooler, as the condensing unit takes the wasted heat and recycles it back into heating water, discharging a small amount of water to be drained off or evaporated. There, you'd probably want instrumentation to measure air/exhaust flow rates.

@@spvillano I used the 4" stainless steel exhaust kit($400) from Bosch. Intake was also a 4" pipe maybe 5 feet long. No issues there. In the end, Bosch blamed it on my well pump. The pulseing of the pump. I wasn't willing to spend another $1,500 to upgrade that to find out it's not that either. I just gave up and cut my losses.

@@tlr-nut7275 that's even odder, as the pressure tank should remove any pulsations from a pump. A properly sized pressure tank both relieves cycling burden and pressure pulses. That nobody managed to diagnose it properly, downright bizarre. Sounds like a case of "lemme guess this, lemme guess that", hoping to find a resolution without actually measuring anything whatsoever!

iv'e been a plumbing contractor 45 years, built my house installed a 50 gal elec . i have a constant pile of tankless out back of the shop all brands waiting to be scrapped

That's because the electric went out and there was no power for the freeze prevent operation.

@@don2deliver Yes - exactly

If you install a recirculation pump on your tankless. Wouldn't that mean your tankless would continually run to keep the water hot in your uninsulated pipes?

@@Powerfade54 It depends on the heat loss in the recirc loop. Typically, once it is up to temp, the heater will cut out. If you have a massive recirc loop that looses all its heat before getting back to the tankless, then it will continue to run.

Correct. That's the reason I recommend getting a heat pump water heater to replace your electric tank.

@@shawnd567 That is interesting where I am in TX we only have Elec. I lived in Australia and built my first house back in 1986 and we had tankless then and love it. My issue with Elec as was stated above the cost is not practical. So you are suggesting a heat pump water heater I have heard of them on This Old House and Matt has suggested them before as well. Thanks

Reason why we ran gas to the home, got a tankless and retired the electric water heater.

Rinnai makes propane versions of its heaters as well. That's what we have.

@@richardgarrow9260 not all of TX has electric only, although that is spotty and equally true in rural areas nationwide. Still, propane is an option. Of course, masturbating with a cheese grater's an option as well. It all comes down to what you want to pay equipping the home with and a cost/benefit analysis. For most, running gas lines wouldn't be worth the expense, save with new construction.

This video is sponsored by some tankless company, what did you expect, its fuill of bullsh*t

When a client calls me to install a tankless I give three scenarios. 1. Space; do you absolutely have to have the space. 2. How often are you changing out your tank? If it’s less than 8 years then you’re a candidate for an assessment. 3. Home; are you always gone? Some of my clients are gone 3-9 months out of the year. Then my final question is do have to be reminded to change the oil in your car??? I personally won’t install a tankless unless I know that you sincerely need one. I don’t want an unhappy client.

@@Runescape. precisely 👍😀

Most tankless water heaters do that for safety reasons, BUT If you know where to look there should be a DIP switch inside the unit that you can change in order to allow higher temps.

This is the exact reason why when our tankless goes bad, and I hope it is sooner rather than later, there is a tank unit replacing it. Who the hell takes showers so long that they go through a tank of hot water. These things are nothing but a gimmick sold to non-engineers who don't understand simple thermodynamics.

Spot on. And tankless may be popular in Japan, but that's also due to limited space requirements. Yes, I too prefer the efficiency of tankless, but reliability is also a prime consideration, and just a peek inside the average tankless water heater reveals *_much_* more complexity, with more opportunities for leaks... which are often disastrous no matter when they occur.

$1400 labor under warrenty to fix mine..parts free.. Feelin raped..

@@peter-pg5yc Geesh, your labor cost would be enough to have bought 2-3 traditional water heaters and installed by yourself.

I've been looking into this for a while now, so many opinions and experience , I'm just one person living in the house, reliability and costs are the most important to me , what makes me worried is, if thankless fails, it can be really costly, i can buy and install tank myself, but i can't do same with tank-less... and labour cost is very expensive...

no idea what people in america are getting shilled, we have had so many tankless water heaters here in the UK never once have we needed them descaling, even in hard water areas

@@randomcow505 I've got a friend who loves his tankless. Same guy who was able to say something nice about a neglected, overflowing and festering portable chemical toilet on a construction site.

@@randomcow505 Ah yes, of course scale doesn't exist in the UK.

​@@randomcow505I would really like to know the difference in your tankless water heaters and the ones in the USA. I tend to very much believe you. There is so much b.s. sales here telling people they need or have to have various services that are total b.s. and rip offs for easy money.

Ok Jason. Appreciate the feedback. Thanks for your support. Matt

@@buildshow I disagree, tankless is a great product. Perhaps more comparison and a discussion of when tank style makes sense would improve this type of video but I think this was informative enough already.

Myth's a much better implication than lie.

Yes, a really disappointing video. Replacing myths about thankless with questionable statements about tanked. At best thankless can get close to 100% efficient, but a heat pump HWS can be 400% efficient. Plus that can be 100% renewable energy. Many cities are banning new gas connections to deal with the climate crisis...and then we have this video.

@@buildshow took it on the chin, good man. I’d like to jump on the bandwagon here and say that you could definitely dive deeper into this topic. One question I’ve been pondering is regarding the decision to use a big tankless heater or a few smaller localized heaters. As cool as those big manifold systems look, I’m just not convinced they are necessary.

Yeah I pefer tankless, you also save more water

Is your point of use water heater in the kitchen a stand alone unit or does hot water from your tankless flow through it?

But that's not how Rinnai wrote the script don't you know. Early in the video is comparing 60% efficient tanked to tankless but then sure isn't using that same tanked model's price when talking about how tankless are the same price.

@@jhoff12358 couldn’t agree more…. Gotta stick to the script 👍 . One example…Currently where I work ( Maine,USA) if a water heater ( tank) goes bad it can be replaced in almost no time with a subsidized heat pump HW heater for 1/10th the cost to the homeowner compared to switching to a tankless and cost go go much higher if no gas in the building. Another example about how long it takes HW to get to a fixture…. That’s just crazy to call it a “lie” because that applies equally to ALL types of hot water sources.

@@dominicm2175 that "subsidized" heat pump may be attractive to purchase, but for those of us in California paying $0.39/KWH, it will cost a fortune to run. The politicians want us to get on board, but they haven't really come to grips with the fact much of our power is generated through burning affordable natural gas. Solar is plentiful, but storage is not. California's environmentalists hate zero-carbon nuclear power, and are set to decommission our last plant in the next couple of years (responsible currently for 10% of our power source). I'm glad we have gas service to our home, and will continue to leverage the lower operational cost of gas utility over electric. I'm excited to put our new Rinnai tankless into service later this year.

@@jhoff12358 I kinda question the efficiency figures. In a tankless water is constantly moving through the system so there is little time to apply heat. in a tank, every calorie of heat MUST pass to the water before it dissipates. The very fact these tankless heaters need huge amounts of power to do the same job a tanked one can also casts doubt on those efficient numbers.

@@steveloux4709 Embedded solar PV in your roof tiles along with the right battery storage system in California is the best option. Then you can ditch the electric company and the gas company. All electric appliances and cars (or trucks) are the way forward. Get on board.

Trust me their not, I repair them daily and parts are still very expensive, and if a person isnt trained proper, they may take a few visit to fix. Two weeks on the average for special parts under normal circumstances

One time? LMAO

quick the power went out, i need to shower. Seems useful

@@chadschafer1723 Well... you could be taking a shower when the power goes out. lol

@@TheFlyingZulu first thing I'm worried about is finishing my shower when the powers out.

@@chadschafer1723 And why not be able to still take/finish a warm shower if you can. Life goes on through power outages.

@@lordgarth1 listen if that's what makes your day, God bless.

But but, that's not what Matt's sponsor wanted hm to say!

Ya, he really jumped on the Rinnai band-wagon! 😆

Four years? Must be some sort of longevity record.

This was one of the problems adapting tankless to this country. They had to be upsized to accommodate a central system.

@@anthonyspadafora1384 true, but with central, every tap, from powder room to bathroom all have hot water from a single unit. In a new build, there might be some applications where running a circulator system would work, not so much in retrofit builds though, save if such a system was already in place.

@@spvillano What I meant was they have been using tankless in Europe for many years but the units were smaller and usually close to the bathroom they served. When they brought them to this country they werent large enough to serve 3 bathrooms or fill a whirlpool but they have overcome these problems over the last twenty years. I sell quite a few and always try to upsell my customers if I can. Many older homes still have chimneys and when it comes down to dollars a chimney vented gas water heater is still the outright cheapest in the moment. Many of the homes built after 2000 had no chimney and also a fair amount of 2 man tubs were sold. The tankless is the only thing that can economically fill these tubs as the standby loss from 80 or 120 gallon water heaters is crazy.

you must gotten a shitty tankless or improper install. I got my tankless installed and never going back.

@@hoodhunter3262 or a thankless that was way to small

I still have just a tank but occurred to me this should be a possibility. Small tank that serves as cache of hot water that is fed by Tankless.

Once the kids were grown, I went to a smaller 19 gallon 120 volt 1500 watt tank water heater with the 240 volt timer I had installed on the previous water heater. Except for a nice long hot shower, it's perfect. I am now looking at your idea of both not one or the other and supplementing my hot water. I'm happy to read I'm not alone with the idea of using both.

Underrated comment

I live in quebec , I have free electricity 🤣

Sometimes it doesn't make sense. my Dad had a 30 ft run of half inch copper in stucco in his basement ceiling leading to his 30 gallon tank. Tearing out a ceiling or tearing up a hardwood floor would have been necessary to run 3/4 inch to a tankless. But for me it was a breeze everthing was right where it needed to be, the concentric vent that I needed was like $30. Mine worked flawlessly. With the exception that I had to run the kitchen hot faucet for a few seconds when I first used the dishwasher. I later found out that was because I had a single water inlet on the washing machine and was using a Y hose to feed it. The backfeed through the Y hose was enough to not allow the pressure drop from the dishwasher to trigger the tankless.

I'm less loyal to a brand name than I am to quality. Currently, they're still maintaining high quality, but should that ever change, I'd not slavishly stick with a failing brand, but be loyal to those who showed loyalty to their investors and customers by keeping the quality up. I'm going through that now with, of all simpleton things, a damned coffee pot. Warranty expired, the heater opened and replacements are not available. Think I'll stick with that brand or the previous brand that also failed after a year? Nope, I'll go back to my percolator first. And yes, they're entirely different companies, I check the brand corporate ownership. Although, "American spaceship, Russian spaceship, all the same. All made with parts from ____!"

Yes! Agreed. My tankless guy told me Stiebel Eltron is the best one out there for all electric homes. He will not install one without a pre-filter for calcium. The only reason my last tankless, which was over 20 years old with zero maintenance, failed was because the scale buildup caused an internal pipe to leak. The unit itself still worked. Replaced it with the pre-filter and the Steibel Eltron Tempra 20 Plus and zero problems since. I expect it to last longer than 20 years. I would never go back to a tank.

For those of us that don't have city water and live off a well, your claimed power outage comment is moot at best since the well pump will not be running. As for those on city water, a small UPS should be more than enough to keep power to a tankless if you must have hot water during a power outage, they are not a heavy load appliance. As for servicing a tankless, your every 6 months comment is overexaggerating. Annual maintenance is all that is really needed (or suggested), and you should be doing that to a tank water heater as well, especially if you live in an area with hard water and you want to keep your warranty (most manufacturers require regular maintenance to keep warranty valid). Replacing a pre-filter and flushing the pipes can be done by the homeowner if they choose. For pipe flushing, you just need 1 or 2 5-gallon buckets, a small pump, and a hose. At least that is how mine is setup, connectors right below the unit. Something to also keep in mind, the hotter you set your water to, the quicker scaling and build up can occur. With a tank water heater you tend to need to set your temp higher than you would a tankless for multiple reasons (bacteria growth prevention is one). This higher temp can be to a point where you can risk scalding. With a tankless, you can set your temp to a lower temperature that won't scald and has less scaling buildup. You still get the hot water you want, you just need to mix less cold water with it. And if you need the few moments where you need scalding hot water, it's quick and easy to dial it up for that occasion and then dial it back down right afterward. I switched from a 50 gallon tank to tankless a few years ago. Biggest advantage and reason I switched was for the added space. My 50 gallon was in such a tight spot, sharing the same room as my air handler, well pressure tank, washer, and dryer. Performing any kind of maintenance on it was nearly impossible. Endless hot water has been great! I would say efficiency and energy savings was another reason, but I had too many factors occur around the time of install to say if it did save anything. I went from an electric tank to a propane tankless (no natural gas in my area), plus I had a major kitchen and dining room remodel, new appliances, shortly after the pandemic hit and the whole family was at home all the time, and cost of electricity was on the rise. Considering all of those factors, my electric bill managed to not increase, but I do have a propane bill now to go with it. Earlier this year I got solar and now my electric bill is $0. I did look at hybrid tanks but they won't fit where the old water heater was at (and nowhere else for it to go). I also considered an electric tankless but my electrician that was working on my kitchen remodel suggested against it, stating one sized for my house would require a huge power draw, which may lead to other issues. Only thing I might do differently (and still might do), is get a small electric tankless to go under the kitchen sink. It is one of the farthest runs in the house and, aside from the shower, it is the most frequently used source for hot water. Doing this will get me hot water quicker and not trip the larger propane tankless for times that I only need a few seconds of hot water (or when the dishwasher runs).

so do new tanked units.. I hate tankless.. expensive.. hot water takes forever.. take a tub...30 minutes later ice cold water.. gotta drain tub to get warm again.. there is not heat transfer in pipes like tanked..so all that now cold water has to heat cold copper and release cold water.. Yes it lower gas bill...Mine failed 1400 2 repairs labor under warrenty..wanna see failed parts i keep them I did forensic exam.. heat chamber very complicated.. Neighbor replaced tanked start of service call to completed install in 3 hours or less.... mine took weeks..custom parts mailed to customer then reset to have tech come out to fix.. NO set appointment until parts at home.. more lost time.. Thank god i used wifes office showers.. Neighbors failed 3500 to replace unit on weekend after less then 10 years of service.. thats a reinstall all the parts are there.. i can show receipt..

@@peter-pg5yc Unless water is constantly flowing through those pipes, those pipes are going to cool down, tank or tankless. Heat retention in the home's pipes overall coming from a tank water heater is going to be minimal. A short distance from the tank, sure. But with no water flow to keep all that sitting water in the pipes heated, that energy is going to taper off very quickly. So either way, tank or tankless, if you ran hot water, stopped for a while, then ran hot water again, both will have to push the water that was sitting in the pipes through before the hot water arrives. What you don't get with a tank that happens with a tankless is what is known as a the cold water sandwich. That happens when fresh, colder water reenters the tankless to be heated and there is a brief moment where the water is colder than the final output temp. Depending on the length of the pipe run, how much heat retention remained in the pipes between runs will determine the severity of the cold water sandwich as the heated pipes will transfer heat to the cold water, vice versa. Insulating your hot water pipes (if possible) can help slow heat dissipation for when hot water is used frequently, for both tank and tankless. All my plumbing runs under the house in the crawlspace, so most of it is easily accessible. But if you have gone for long periods of time between using hot water, majority of the pipe run will have reached a cooler, ambient temp, insulated or not. As far as the tub comment, I don't get how heat transfer in the pipes helps keep your tub warm. Water in the tub for both tank and tankless should cool off at a similar rate given the water temp was the same for both, the tub isn't being heated by the pipes. Now, if you are talking about wanting to add hot water to a tub that has cooled off, then you may be referencing the cold water sandwich I mentioned earlier. While it may be a brief shock, the length of experiencing that should be minimal and hot water will follow pretty quickly afterwards. In my home, my tankless is in the center of my house. Both tubs are within 8 feet of the tankless (and my washer is in the same room, so an even shorter of a run), just on the other side of the walls. Both tubs receive hot water within seconds. Keep in mind, though, that one of the more common water heater tank sizes is 50 gallons and the average bathtub takes 42 gallons to fill up to the overflow drain. If your water got cold and you need to refill it again, chances are pretty good that the tankless is going to be able to supply more hot water for both tub fills than the tank water heater. With the tank, you would have depleted most of it from the first tank fill and it would be working hard to try and heat up another 42 gallons in time for the second fill (especially if that tank is electric, like my old unit was), even more so if you are trying to fill two separate tubs in short order or at the same time. Meanwhile, aside from the brief cold water sandwich, the tankless will be able to keep up (providing it was properly sized). Now for those that frequently turn on and off the hot water for a few seconds at a time in back to back succession (HE washer, dishwasher, children, for example), I do find that a tank has an advantage there. Luckily, my washer is only a few feet away from the tankless, so its impact is minimal there. As for my dishwasher, along with my kitchen sink, it is the furthest run from the water heater in my home. Even with my old tank, it took a while to get hot water, so no major difference there. The only noticeable difference is when it does call for water (dishwashers don't run the water all the time, they only take enough for each cycle). As such, the dishwasher's internal water heater probably does put in more work to heat the water, but it's designed to provide supplemental heating when needed, especially when using the sanitation cycle, but you could attach it to a cold water line if you wanted. As mentioned in my previous comment, what I am thinking of doing is installing a POU water heater under the kitchen sink. This will provide me with near instant hot water (something neither a tank nor tankless could provide) and will be much more tolerant to frequent on/off uses, which does happen between the dishwasher and washing dishes by hand. But this would be to solve a problem I was experiencing long before I went to tankless. I do agree that a "traditional" tank water heater can be swapped out from a failure quicker than a tankless IF parts are not readily available. But that is assuming you are not picky about what you want to replace the old tank with. If you have a newer style tank, like a hybrid tank (heat pump), you may be just as likely to be waiting for a repair or replacement as you would be for the tankless. As for cost, a basic traditional tank water heater can be quite a bit cheaper. But the more energy efficient models and those with longer warranties, the price difference between tank and tankless can be quite comparable. I can't state what difference in labor cost is between the two when it comes to swapping out for an identical unit, but I would think that it would be cheaper in labor to swap out for a same type unit than it would be to convert from tank to tankless or vice versa. Now, initial investment converting from tank to tankless can be pretty pricey, I can attest to that. But for my needs and use case, the tankless was the better choice for my home in the long run than sticking to a traditional tank setup. But as the old saying goes, your mileage may vary. One type of setup may work better for one home than another, same goes for their use case.

You omitted the fact that you have a chimney. Most homes in the last 20 years dont. They use power vent tank type water heaters. Chimneys are very expensive to build.

@@anthonyspadafora1384 Not sure if this was directed at me, but I don't have a chimney. Original water heater was electric, converted to a propane tankless. I have a one story rambler. They ran a PVC concentric termination ventilation system straight through the ceiling and roof, compliant with local building codes and passed inspection. All included in my original cost of conversion. While I don't have an itemized breakdown of costs in front of me, that one portion of the project didn't appear to be much of the overall price to install that.

uh no youre completely wrong lol. it takes longer because the pilot has to heat the pipes and that takes 15 seconds easy

Convection from a tank does not keep the water in your pipes warm all the time. Matt even explained this in the video, unless you have a recirculating pump, everyone has to wait for the cold water to be flushed from the line before the hot water arrives, regardless of tank or tankless. The disadvantage of tankless is, as @J says, the little bit of additional time it takes to heat the water pipes inside the tankless heater. Because of that, even if you had a tankless unit directly behind your shower, there will still be a short delay before you get hot water. An "instant hot" water dispenser works by putting a small tank next to the faucet. The water in that small tank is always hot and can be delivered (almost) instantly.

Install a heat trap to prevent convection losses from your tank heater. You have to pay for the convenience of convection losses.

@@hempelcx Go feel the Temperature about five feet from your tank water heater hot outlet, or the last metal part if it switches to non-metallic before then. If you have tankless, at 6in from the heater it is room temperature about 30 seconds after you stop using hot water.

"Look into how bad the Bosch ones are. They are so bad, they had to stop selling them in New Zealand. " Are you talking about the Bosch mechanical tankless heaters that are still made (e.g., Bosch 16P), or the electronic ones that are more similar to Rinnai (e.g., Bosch 17E)? Thanks!

I've wondered about that type of thing myself. Why not use a lower wattage main unit and a smaller unit down the line, closer to the point of use. How does it work out for you?

There is a switch inside the unit that will fix your “trickle” issue. I had a similar issue and Rinnai tech support was fantastic. If you add a recirc pump to your unit it will fix all of the waiting and it’s very cheap to run. That’s not specific to your heater, it has to do with the length of run between the unit and fixture which needs to be cleared (and pipes warmed) in the process.

I mean is waiting a minute for hot water that big of an inconvenience? It takes about a minute or so for my tank hot water to reach the faucet.

@@DanielCaspi Adding a recirculation pump wastes a bit of energy because you are then using gas/electricity to keep the water in the pipes warm all the time. How much energy will be wasted depends on how long the pipes are, how well they are insulated, their size and length, etc. But then again, running the water until it gets hot wastes a little water too.

@@averyalexander2303 At that point, aren't you just remaking a tanked water heater, just with a really tiny tank?

Love that Rinnai is USA made. Agree tankless are the way to go. :)

He was promoting Rheem 4 years ago!

He will shill for whoever signs the checks 💲

Probably a change in technology, but I've never hit a minimum flow with the one I have currently and you can set the output temp to whatever you want it to be. The only issue I have had in 2+ years of use is when we had the dishwasher and clothes washer running at the same time I wanted to take a shower, I couldn't get it quite as hot as I wanted to. It was maxing out at just a bit cooler than I wanted. Every other day that I've had it, when I get in the shower I set the temp, and it stays at that exact temp for as long as I want to stand there.

never install one off city water

Which brand/Model did you replace it with? And which Brand did you replace?

🤭 yeah, descaling is mandatory EVERY YEAR but the salesmen leave that out. Plus, the price of the two/three solenoids for inlet/outlet are the price of a new tank unit..... I steer customers away from tankless because of the MAINTENANCE. Paying 350 a year to descale every year=a bad buy...get a tank, install it, and forget about it. ZERO MAINTENANCE. Tankless is like signing up for Verizon cell phone service. It's pain and pain and more pain. I'll take the tank EVERY SINGLE TIME. But hey, what do I know...I've only installed about 30 tankless units, all piping and storage tanks included... and over 500 tanks. I'm just a rookie. P.s. rinnai is ok but NAVIEN is king of the tankless game.

The More You Know........

@@BiteTheCurbNow Sio Green is new standard for tankless. Almost zero maintenance.

@@brekdown29 uhh...no it's not. There's ALOT more to the tankless game then an electric unit can do. From what I hear, sio green doesn't even have tech support live, it's email...lol 😂 It's a fledgling, amateur company who isn't proven in the field.God bless em, and good luck to em, they are from Florida--but no tankless unit, parts, tech support, or capabilities can compare to NAVIEN. No, I don't work there. They are one of the reputable companies that I take update classes for every couple years. It DOES sound like you work for Sio Green tho, because they aren't the "standard" for anything in Michigan.

@@BiteTheCurbNow I certainly don’t work for them. And I was speaking more to its design being maintenance free and a new standard for electric tankless. My GC has installed dozens here and has gotten only great feedback from customers.

They never told me that I'd have to flush my tankless with vinegar every year to keep it working. Now it's leaking after 14 years. Never again.

@trainofthough0242 & Stephen Willis: 14 yrs.? Just replace it. I bought mine online for less than $100.00. Never even seen one priced at 10k. I think you're spreading horse manure. Let me guess: You sell water heaters, right?

A friend wanted tankless but the nationally-chained plumbing company said she'd have nothing but trouble because of the well water.

This post is a lot of BS

@@doubleganger2 if it ain’t broke don’t fix it that’s my opinion on water heaters. Tank units work much better imo. Never had any issues with a tank unit.

Did it lower your gas bill?

This is a paid advertising not a no bs overlook.

He never mentioned outside units in the video

@@Steve-bm2zm Right at the very beginning. "You can even put them outside"

Agree that I would generally put these inside the home. We froze a bunch of tankless units when my past clients lost power for a week a few winters ago.

He's still showing plumbers installing plumbing in exterior walls in every other video... including in his own house (though at least he has some exterior insulation). So, nope. Texas builders learned not a single thing from getting a taste of winter. They're still plumbing exterior walls and still running supply lines above ground and still not installing isolation valves and drains behind their hose bibs and still willing to put a water heater outside.

It was part of the sponsor deal. Plus lying about the common lies.

At least he's not promoting Navien, where some models have a 90% chance of failure and/or CO leaks after a year/two.

@@MrTexasDan the biggest lie he is not talking about that thankless water heater can not be run by electricity. Wait, does Rinnai make those? No? Well if it puts down competitor s products it is not a lie but smart selling technique

@@andreycham4797 Without Elec. than the tank heater wont work either once the existing hot water is used considering what heats the tank uses electronics too. So...yea. And if you want the tankless to work during a power loss, either get a UPS connected to it which will last for a few hours...or if its a long outage, people have their generators usually running, which you can power the unit off of.

@@andreycham4797 Electric tankless have a host of problems especially in cold climates. I'm planning a house build now and not a single unit allows for the consistent heat gain necessary. Gas tankless can do it buy I'm not planning on running gas to the house so I'll be using a hybrid heat pump kind of like what Matt actually uses in his house.

Great use of spare power. How much is electricity per KWh and gas per kWh or therm where you are? And where are you in the world?

If you got the amps, go electric.

kzfaq.info/sun/PLsqwS9Vo-z3VKl5rL1-ymHeQlUeXzec5m

Shhhhhh

The real issue you describe isn't a water heater issue. It is a supply issue. If the incoming water pressure is low there will be more effect on temperature change in the shower mixing cold and hot water. The larger the water supply and smaller the branches will lessen this hot to cold to hot fluctuation. Typically the main lines would be 3/4" tho 1" pipe would be even better except more water would have to be delivered to raise the line temperature. Branches are typically 1/2" pipe wit 3/8" supply lines coming from the supply valves.

@@aNuthaRedneck pancake effect is pretty well known with tankless. In this situation I’ve experienced it with a 40/60 lb well w/a 12gph pump and properly pressurized well tank and the shower is a flow restricted shower head - while a restricted water supply may also cause this, in our case I don’t think it’s a water supply issue.

I think you just answered your own question

@@tubulartuber greed, true that.

Generally venting is sold separately, because houses are different and its not possible to have an omnipotent venting kit that is suitable for every or even most of the installations.

@@PunaJussi Understandable but they shouldn't advertise it showing the vent then. .

Your math is wrong because you didn't deduct the cost of the tank option

Big families? Where did you come up with that? I live alone in the NE USA, ground water average temp is 47°, yes I had a tank that lasted way more than 30 years until it rusted through. Put a new tank in but got tired of coming home after 3 days and hearing heater(natural gas) running to keep water hot when I hadn’t even used it for days. Tank was only 3 years old when I replaced it with a tankless. Tankless dropped my gas bill enough that it paid for itself in less than 1 year! I didn’t buy a “name brand” one. Even if I had it would pay for itself in a handful of years! I’ll never put in a tank heater again!

Tankless saved me $25-30 month living alone with a sub $200 gas and electric bill.

Was just thinking this

Or how long it takes before the water is warm!

@@godzilla2k26 I traveled through Asia quite a bit and a lot of homes have tankless water. I've also been in a home in north America that had a tankless system for an upstairs bathroom. They're just as fast to get hot water if not faster than a regular tank heater. Like he mentions in the video, the time it takes to get hot water mostly depends on how long it takes to clear cold water that's sitting in the pipes between your faucet/shower and the heater, just like a regular water heater. My experience in Asia is that a lot of these are installed at the site of service (I think they're electric in that case) and the hot water basically comes out within a few seconds because the heater is already right there at the shower head or at least in the bathroom.

Look at power requirements for electric tankless heaters before you get excited.

@@katherinelandreth2191 The one at our church is really slow to get up to temperature. But it replaced the old water heater and isn't close to the point of service, so that could be a significant factor. So in Asia are there multiple heaters per house or is it the point of service is just built closer to where you access the water?

Now you know we can’t talk about the elephant in the room😜. In all seriousness tankless units shine when the user keeps the temperature 110 degrees or less and the burn hours less than 250 per year. Otherwise you get what you just described.

Maybe in the U.S. the cost of tank vs tankless means a saving with a tank but a vast majority of houses in UK and EU run tankless and it’s cheaper . My house was converted from a leaky tank that kept failing after only 7 years and took up way too much space. While I was apprehensive at first, the New tankless heater produced all the hot water we need for two showers, and the washer running simultaneously and then some. 5 years on and never had a problem, lower costs as I don’t have an element constantly trying to keep the water hot in the tank etc etc. never looking back. That said I guess there are still a few edge cases for tank based water heaters. Now looking at one of the new tech electric only versions that can replace the gas condenser unit for same running cost.

Matt did a video a while back about tankless being thankless

What’s you opinion on heat pump water heater, i am planing to replace my 40 gallon natural gas water heater. I live in moderate climate, temperature never less than 42F.

The US market is very weird here. There is no reason why a tankless boiler should cost significantly more than the system boiler you would otherwise use with a tank, nor is there any reason why it should require more maintenance. Indeed, elsewhere in the world they are about the same price, meaning that the tank itself is just an additional cost. Also, there is no meaningful efficiency difference between a system boiler + tank vs a tankless boiler. The efficiency gain comes from condensing vs non-condensing, and both are available for both formats - although non-condensing boilers have been obsolete for about 15 years now!

No he's just in the tank for Rennai. Lol

Yes and he has no idea what he's talking about - not the first time by a long shot for this channel.

It is whoever he is being sponsored by.

Heat Pump water heaters like the Sanden CO2 is by far the most efficient and long lasting. There are reasons tankless might make sense, but for efficiency and every day use, tankless doesn't make sense especially if you have hot water recirculation loops.

because he is a shill who goes with what the sponsors pay for

That is an advantage but not the main advantage. The main advantage is there is NO STANDBY LOSS. 1 POUND OF WATER 1 DEGREE 1BTU! This is obviously a very difficult concept for you to understand! Go make a pot of coffee, turn off the machine and come back in a couple of hours and get yourself a cup of coffee...what happened? The coffee is cold! why? Because the heat has escaped to the atmosphere! Insulation slows the process but when you are talking about an uninsulated flue tied into a chimney that continuously pulls cool basement air up through the water heater it loses it's heat almost as fast as that coffee pot. A larger tank will just hold more pounds of water and will cost you even more.

@@anthonyspadafora1384 well duh, guess what, i DO understand standby loss, and it is one reason i started out thinking tankless was the way to go. Clearly you have more interest in calling me stupid, than in acknowledging that the MANY issues i listed are relevant for at least some users.

I'm on the same boat...

I'm in Canada too. Buy a condensing tankless unit: there's almost no moisture in the exhaust air to freeze. More money, yes, but higher efficiency means less gas burned.

@@paulmaxwell8851 Ya! We have some IBC's and there doing great so far...🤞

then those vents should be higher or whatever needed so they don't get blocked. User should not have to go out in snow to clear vents. Geez it amazes me how much money is spent on construction design yet it so often does not accommodate real life conditions or actual human behavior.

If you get some of the really cheap junk that is sold in some home improvement stures, the life expectancy of a tank water heater can be as low as 6 years

@@shannabolser9428 So where people should get their tank from?

@@MarcFun you can go to a plumbing supply house where that is all they do or a trusted local hardware store can sell some good ones sometimes. AO Smith is a good brand.

Can they be place outside in places that have freezing temps in winter?

I install Rinnais and also love clearing blocked drains

The unit with a pump. Was it made in Korea? Both Noritz and Rheem sold a Korean brand and put their name on it. It was supposed to be a fill gap to compete with Navien. It didn’t go well for either company. That particular unit was originally designed for hydronic heat. Even installed correctly these units have a horrible break down record.

You should have tried a Rinnai. They last way longer than a Noritz. Probably why Matt used that brand for his video. Mine is from 2004 and I probably paid for maintenance like 5 times which is a simple flush.. mine still going strong...

I'm leaning towards the Navien NPE-A2 for my home

What brand? Mine has been running for 5years straight in a 6 person house with no issues.

@@geoffmooregm what brand you got?

@@devinsheaven It is a Navien.

they are, but its a sponsorded video soooo...

Agree. This video came off like a paid ad.

Pay attention, this was about tankless

For me the attraction of heat pump is electric rather than natural gas or propane. It seems to be easier to run on off grid solar than an electric resistance heater because the power draw is low and constant rather than high and instantaneous. I'll probably go heat pump but mostly since I want to try 100% electric to avoid a propane tank and add solar to net-zero it.

@@daveklein2826 and he had a previous comparison showing how much better heat pump water heaters were. pay attention to the question.

Unfortunately even if you watch videos and do homework you’ll still fall short. I make a living servicing tankless units and I own a 40 gallon short. For 101 basics, tankless units are used way differently in Japan and Germany. They conserve both water and gas/electricity. Case in point shower head volume here vs ones used overseas. Water temperature here Vs overseas. The units overseas most likely see less burn hours than the units used here.

Were you going to have to pay for a new meter?

@@anthonyspadafora1384 Possibly. The tech said they may try charging me for it but in her opinion I shouldn't have to pay. So, to be determined.

@@cdyoung976 Not here. If you need a larger meter they are there in a couple days. If you are changing from oil to gas there is no charge to run the line from the street.

How often the you have them serviced? Once a year is recommended.

I have a Rinnai condensing unit. If an exterior-mounted heater freezes, it stops the flow in the hot side of your plumbing. The cold continues to run, obviously. You still have running water. Solution: don't mount this units outside if freezing is a possibility. As for the high-efficiency washing machines, we have one. It runs just fine and gets the hot water it needs. I suspect you have a long, long run from heater to washing machine, so sure, that could be a problem. However, pull out that unit, install a tank-type and you'll still have the same problem. You need to have the water heater (any type) in your laundry room for maximum efficiency. That's where everyone I know puts it.

@@paulmaxwell8851 - "The cold continues to run, obviously. You still have running water. " - nope ALL water flow stopped. Could have been a poor install by plumber, but plz don't presume to tell me my lived experience is invalid. As for the washing machine, you are wrong about that was well. Our tankless was a retrofit on a house that was nearly 30 years old. Laundry off the garage, WH in the basement, fairly central to the kitchen and 4 bedrooms.

@@carlwebinar1571 I'm not sure how it could stop your cold supply. Cold comes in from the street to your meter and then splits off the feed line to each fixture needing cold water, including the tankless (the tankless then makes the incoming cold water hot), hot then originates from your tankless. Cold water to your fixtures like tub, sinks etc doesn't take a path through your water heater. What's likely is that your main supply froze as there's no way to blame the water heater (tank or tankless) for losing cold supply to the house.

@@nutritionperfection - I took a heat gun to the outside portion of the tankless (the heat exchanger as I recall) and after about 10 minutes, everything was fine. I live in Atlanta and it got down to 8°F overnight, very atypical.

or a hot tub on a refill.. Or 3 gallons or ore waste cold water for a shower..I aint going into a damn cold shower.. I use 5 gallon buckets to catch cold water.. Use elsewhere..